Aos 2 - Lumineth Realm-Lords Discussion

[Yuviel Lightbringer]

If anything looking back through the previews This Image has me very scared, does this mean slannesh has returned to full power? If so I think we realm-lords will have our hands full cleaning up Morathi's mistakes.

Edited August 22, 2020 by Yuviel Lightbringer

[Tiberius501]

Absolutely. Definitely seems like he’s getting out /on the brink of escape. I reckon these campaign books will lead up to 3rd edition, where we may perhaps see Slaanesh escape.

[Yuviel Lightbringer]

2 minutes ago, Tiberius501 said:

Absolutely. Definitely seems like he’s getting out /on the brink of escape. I reckon these campaign books will lead up to 3rd edition, where we may perhaps see Slaanesh escape.

That is my line of thinking also, this is very reminicent of Psychic awakening for 40k, and if so we could see lumineth vs slannesh as the next big starter kit for 3rd edition. (I wish)

[Nightseer2012]

Just... freakin' Morathi.  Her and Mannfred are my least favorite AoS characters.  At least when the Skaven muck something up it is funny.  But Morathi's perpetual "I'm going to take more than my fair share and ruin it for everyone" shtick got old a long time ago (like 5th edition Fantasy long time ago).  This is just going to stall Teclis' advance in his new war, because he will have to choose between his crusade to stabilize the Realms and repairing/re-hiding the prison of Slaanesh (which I doubt will be possible).

Another thought occurs, hopefully we don't have to wait for Slaanesh' now inevitable escape for Tyrion (and his entirely military complex) to get off his blind butt and do something.

[Yuviel Lightbringer]

9 minutes ago, Nightseer2012 said:

Just... freakin' Morathi.  Her and Mannfred are my least favorite AoS characters.  At least when the Skaven muck something up it is funny.  But Morathi's perpetual "I'm going to take more than my fair share and ruin it for everyone" shtick got old a long time ago (like 5th edition Fantasy long time ago).  This is just going to stall Teclis' advance in his new war, because he will have to choose between his crusade to stabilize the Realms and repairing/re-hiding the prison of Slaanesh (which I doubt will be possible).

Another thought occurs, hopefully we don't have to wait for Slaanesh' now inevitable escape for Tyrion (and his entirely military complex) to get off his blind butt and do something.

I get where you come from but this was kinda the trait that makes me like Morathi (my other army is DOK), she is unrepentant, and will always do everything she can for more power, even irritate those being more powerful than her, its nice to be the villan sometimes.

[Nightseer2012]

30 minutes ago, Yuviel Lightbringer said:

I get where you come from but this was kinda the trait that makes me like Morathi (my other army is DOK), she is unrepentant, and will always do everything she can for more power, even irritate those being more powerful than her, its nice to be the villan sometimes.

I get loving villains, hell, I play Nagash, but even his character is much weaker in AoS than it used to be.  Nagash is now more of a 'force of nature' than a being anymore.  At least when he is displayed in most novels, his mind is far off, doing millions of things at once on grand scales, which kind of leaves him empty, personality wise.  I kind of share the theory that he took out pieces of his own personality to "remake" the first three Mortarchs, because each of them kind of lines up with a facet that seems to be missing from Nagash's current personality.  I get mad at Nagash's character sometimes as well, when he repeats the same old mistakes, but at least with Nagash, he has reformed so many times and gotten so powerful that he simply doesn't remember things anymore.  Even stuff since the Age of Myth, it's like he has Diety level Alzheimers.  It feels like Nagash's "character" is much weaker than it used to be, which is dissapointing.

When it comes to villains, I actually love Arkhan.  He balances out the "death death death" part of Nagash's personality with real patience.  Especially in Soul Wars, he seems to understand the need for the other Realms to exist independently, at least for now.  He knows everything eventually dies anyway, so there is no need to rush things, so he would rather work together to defeat Chaos.  He misses the days when Nagash and Sigmar worked together to topple cosmic nonsense that neither of them could do alone, and used both their strengths to build a huge empire for both the living and the dead.  That is the kind of villain I like.  He is still more than happy to tear your soul out, but he has a vision that makes actual sense.  His character has grown immensely since Warhammer fantasy, so he feels real, he shows growth and insight.

With Morathi it just feels the same as it always does.  You would think that being trapped by Slaanesh yourself would give you some insight into how stupid of an idea it would be to destabilize his prison and risk his escape.  She just never learns anything, never grows as a character.  Yea, she is more powerful and has her own army that she is NEARLY a god of, but her personality so far seems exactly the same.  I would love for the new book to show some growth, I would love to change my mind about her.

Tyrion and Teclis seem to be showing growth in the new Battletome, which is nice.  Teclis is willing to admit that he needs guidance, so he communes with Celenarr, which offers him a new solution to save his people instead of forcing him to start over AGAIN.  Tyrion seems much more patient than he used to, even staying Teclis' hand when it comes to killing the first Iodeneth off.  Tyrion seems to have much more wisdom than he used to, and I would love to see what his bonding with the True Sun of Hysh resolves itself into.

I guess for me, the weakest stories coming from GW are the ones where no one learns anything.  I guess it makes sense that one of my favorite characters used to be a wretched noble son, who would gamble away his fortunes, and is now a patient, wise, but still amoral lich king who thinks on a cosmic scale.

[Yuviel Lightbringer]

@Nightseer2012 what you have highlighted is a writing issue that has plauged GW for years, they can write a grand cosmic scale but they seem to struggle to write a single person, almost as if they cannot see past a basic idea and motivation and then run out of steam beyond that so they just keep repeating the same thing again and again as they don't understand the hero/villians journey or how to apply it sucessfully.

[Gecktron]

Exciting times ahead! As a Daughters of Khaine and Lumineth player Im very happy with today. 

The Direchasm Teaser was pretty good for us Lumineth. At first I thought the sword guy maybe a reimagining of the Loremasters of old, but this card: 

makes me think its much more likely that this is a Aelementari of the River temple. Which I dont mind, this could mean we get a look at all the other temples much sooner than I expected!

[Dreadmund]

Really wasn't expecting more LRL models this soon. What a nice surprise!

[LuminethMage]

There are 4 on the package. We know one of them is Alarith - so it could be one for each temple. The mage Zenith, the archer Wind, and the sword lady River. The archer just looks very much like our normal Sentinel though, so maybe not. 

I don’t know much about Underworld, but looking at the just released DoK and Orruk bands - it looks like these are always teams centered on one leader who puts them together for some kind of reason.

But it’s really great to get some more models. Even if the scrolls aren’t good, this hopefully will give us aT least a bit of variety, maybe models for our Anvil made heroes, a d maybe a bit more lore. I’d love to know how the other Aelementiri temple are called for example. The names of the elements are in the BT, but sadly not the temples.... 

I really like the pretty understated look of the “river warrior” in both art pieces. 

 

[LuminethMage]

@Nightseer2012 I’m a bit on the other end - I think for a GW character she is written pretty well.

We don’t know if it’s her that destabilizes the prison. So far, it has been other powers who did that, like Slaanesh, his servants, traitors, and Archeon. They wrote her as the one who consistently has been the most concerned about Slaanesh breaking free, in the end convincing Teclis that this could happen soon. Whereas Tyrion and Malerion are still really blasé about it, “nah can’t happen”, and do nothing. While she is preparing for it, and brought Teclis on board. Hence the new AoS box (DoK vs Slaanesh). I don’t think she will be the one intentionally weakening the prison. Her forces are those of fight Slaanesh in Ulgu, and only Morathi has sent help to other Realms fighting Chaos. Malerion, Teclis and Tyrion have done nothing of the sort, Teclis just starting it recently. Of course she isn’t doing it out of altruism, but it’s made clear that the assistance the DoK provide is appreciated.

On the other hand, she is still her old schemer self, which I think isn’t actually that strange. A real change of character doesn’t happen that often, and she is still the one with the least power among her piers (not a god yet), still often ridiculed etc. Her situation hasn’t changed that much. So of course she will also try to use a bad situation as an opportunity to gain more power, and maybe finally wholly ascent to full godhood. Which if it works out would also weaken Slaanesh. 

 

[Overread]

Morathi has wound up the weakest of the Aelves of old who survived the end of the Old World. Her greatest opponents and her own Son are all godlike beings of immense power and she, she has her perfect body twisted and mutated into a monster. She's still a powerful sorceress, but to even get near to the power of the others she has to create a whole fake-god and siphon off the power for herself. A situation that might be more risky than not since Khaine's heart still exists and there is always potential for him to be reborn. If Morathi lost that she might not only lose her power but even her control over the Daughters of Khaine since Khaine as a god would surpass her power. 

Her people are also not as numerous as the others; the Shadow Aelves rule most of the Realm of Shadow; the Daughters of Khaine are pushed into a very dark corner of the realm. So she's not even got numbers on her side faction wise. 

She's scrabbling for power so getting more than her fair share of souls from the belly of Slaanesh makes sense to her; she's securing what she can. Also I think that she and the other Aelven Gods know that Slaanesh will break free at some stage. They know that the Chaos Gods are beyond them to kill outright so its only a matter of time before the Prince escapes. Thus Morathi is likely hedging her bets to get as much as she can before it all comes tumbling down. That her spell is one of the many parts that has weakened the cage (though I'd say the Necroquake did FAR more damage) is but one aspect of the failing of the Aelves to fully contain the dark god. 

Also don't forget that the actual Chaos Gods don't feature all that often, more often its their agents that threaten the mortal world. Greater Demons; legions of Demons and mortal followers. So even with Slaanesh caged, the legions of Hedonites are still just as much risk as before.

[Aelfric]

It seems to me that all those who survived the World-that-was and became Gods are fused with the essence of one of the Realms through the winds of magic.  Morathi is not bonded with a wind of magic and rules part of Ulgu on her son's sufference.  Becoming one of the new Gods seems impossible, so taking on the mantle of an Elder God looks to be a more feasible goal. 

The question I have is will she take that final step and become Khaine?  When/if she does,  which personality will emerge - her's or Khaine's?  Or perhaps it'll be like Allarielle, a fusion of mortal and God, but without a Realm.  I'm hoping the coming book will give some answers.

[Icarion]

10 hours ago, Nightseer2012 said:

With Morathi it just feels the same as it always does.  You would think that being trapped by Slaanesh yourself would give you some insight into how stupid of an idea it would be to destabilize his prison and risk his escape.  She just never learns anything, never grows as a character.  Yea, she is more powerful and has her own army that she is NEARLY a god of, but her personality so far seems exactly the same.  I would love for the new book to show some growth, I would love to change my mind about her.

 

 I couldn't disagree more, it makes perfect sense to her, and from a lore standpoint. Whether or not, Tyrion and Malerion Agree, Morathi and teclis can see the writing on the wall that Slaanesh cannot be contained forever. They make a point of her saying that the idea of It being jailed permanently is madness and that Its escape will be inevitable, Teclis seems to agree, even without explicit knowledge of Morathi's tampering with the prison, Teclis sees the effects of the Necroquake and realizes that Slaanesh will slip Its chains sooner or later, with or without anyone's help.

If that is true, why wouldn't Morathi try to get as many souls as possible before that happens? If you know that It's escape is inevitable, it makes perfect sense that not only would you try to squeeze as many extra souls out of as possible, with a bonus that each soul you steal empowers your position and weakens his. 

Makes perfect sense for her character, and even from a meta tactical perspective. 

And she has grown. But that doesn't mean grown wise, or just. But she was the only member of the Aelven pantheon actively fighting chaos before the Necroquake. Her time inside Slaanesh seems to have crystalized her opposition to chaos, where before the end times, she viewed chaos and Slaanesh as a tool. Now she knows the true threat slaanesh embodies and she is doing everything in her power to be sure that when he does escape, he is as weak as possible, while she has grown strong.

Morathi is awesome.

Edited August 23, 2020 by Athrawes
Grammer mistakes

[Tiberius501]

Yeah, to me, Marathi hasn’t grown as a hero, she’s fallen further into her anger and hatred and become more of a spiteful character. And that’s cool and somewhat tragic compared to the other elves who’ve become better people.

Edit: In other news, I’m part way through painting a test Dawnrider model and I want to die. This is the most horrific model to paint I’ve ever put my brush to. 😫

Edited August 23, 2020 by Tiberius501

[Overread]

6 hours ago, Athrawes said:

But she was the only member of the Aelven pantheon actively fighting chaos before the Necroquake. Her time inside Slaanesh seems to have crystalized her opposition to chaos, where before the end times, she viewed chaos and Slaanesh as a tool. Now she knows the true threat slaanesh embodies and she is doing everything in her power to be sure that when he does escape, he is as weak as possible, while she has grown strong.

Morathi is awesome.

This is actually a point that gets overlooked. During the Age of Chaos almost all the gods retreated in some form. 

Sigmar closed the gates to his realm and pulled back entirely along with the light aelves. Alarielle basically went insane and withdrew into hiding; the Dwarves lost their God; Orruks meanwhile mostly just raided and went wild and didn't really challenge Chaos as a united front. We aren't totally sure what Malarion did because his lore is still a bit hidden in shadow. 

That said the Daughters of Khaine and Morathi stood about as firm as any faction could against Chaos. Certainly helped by the shadows in hiding, but at the same time she didn't withdraw and hide. She remained, fought, battled and even whilst coming under more intense attention from Slaaneshs' servants, the Daughters of Khaine persisted through the Age of Chaos. Whilst her forces lacked the numbers to push back the tide on their own, they certainly give the impression of holding the line. She's likely one of the few that didn't need Sigmar to come say "hey wake up and fight back" but more that she just needed numbers to give her faction room to turn from defensive to full offensive.  

[Icarion]

It's like Daughters of khaine are not my taste aesthetically, and Morathi is not heroic to my alignment views, but, she literally clawed her way out of a chaos God fueled by pure spite. If that doesn't make her one of the coolest characters in AOS, I don't know what could.

Edited August 23, 2020 by Athrawes

[Chumphammer]

Morathi is the one true queen of shadows and I will cut any of you that disagree

She is one of the best heroes from WFB lore as the stuff she did to survive and prosper is great. Plus shes one of the oldest heroes in the game. In AOS she is still just as amazing and yeah she got screwed out of being a god because Slaanesh ate her. So cut her a break. Better than mr Teclis "I made a race and abandoned them" baggy pants.

Now onto other things, I made a new list i want to try

Zeitrec (Because I want the spell options and superiority)
Alarith Stonemage - General - Command Trait : Fast Learner - Artefact : Gift of Celennar - Lore of the High Peaks : Assault of Stone
Avalenor, the Stoneheart King
Scinari Cathallar - Artefact : Silver Wand - Lore of Hysh : Total Eclipse, Protection of Hysh
2 x 10 Stoneguard (Hammers)
2 x 10 Wardens (Protection/lambent light)
2 x 10 Sentinals (Ethereal/Flare)
10 Dawnriders (Speed of Hysh)
Temple
Twinstones
Sanctum

2 units of Stoneguard in the front with the King behind next to stonemage (with Sanctum on)
Flanked both sides by sentinals/wardens split.
Dawnriders either flank to  get most effect.
Avalenor should be able to +1A both units of stoneguard most the time and they can attack together. They get rerolls for AS for the King/Guard which is why temple over legion 
7 drops

only 20 sentinels but I wanted a more balanced army 
 

[Thiagoma]

48 minutes ago, Chumphammer said:

She is one of the best heroes from WFB lore as the stuff she did to survive and prosper is great. Plus shes one of the oldest heroes in the game. In AOS she is still just as amazing and yeah she got screwed out of being a god because Slaanesh ate her. So cut her a break. Better than mr Teclis "I made a race and abandoned them" baggy pants.

Teclis Baggypants is now his real name.

[l1censetochill]

Well, I'm certainly excited to see what the new Underworlds models look like, even if I'll be so wrapped up in painting an army that they probably won't make their way to my table any time soon. And in line with what others are thinking, based on the lore in the Lumineth tome, I'm going to guess that Slaanesh breaking free of its prison will be an end result of the Broken Realms narrative and the impetus for the Tyrionic aelves to get released (probably in late 21 or 22 at the earliest).

On a completely unrelated note, I also found time this weekend to finish my first Dawnrider model:

I've never painted horses before, nor have I ever painted in sub-assemblies, so there was definitely some trial and error involved. Getting the pieces to fit just right post-painting was very difficult, and I hate that they made the decision to require you to glue the sides of the bridle into the horse's mouth (I snapped the rope off twice trying to get all the tiny fragile parts aligned!). But all things considered, I'm still happy with the result. I'm sure next time will be smoother, at any rate!

[Nightseer2012]

39 minutes ago, Thiagoma said:

Teclis Baggypants is now his real name.

Ill just put that next to "Jimmy Space" for funny names.  Still disagree on the Morathi thing, but I guess that is why we have opinions.  Back on the Lumineth, I am excited about new models for the Underworlds game, it kind of gives me hope that whenever the other big chunk of lumineth gets revealed, it will have the parts that feel so missing in this army.  Would love to see someone do a Lumineth army based on the River Temple that was "infected" by orruk ferocity from the battletome.

[JonnyTheKing]

How do you guys feel about the play experience of Lumineth so far? Myself and a couple friends have had a game or two against them and they honestly are kinda just super unfun to play against, they just seem to perhaps have a bit too much going on and so many ways to shut stuff down

[LuminethMage]

@Chumphammer I'm really interested in how that list goes for you. In the end, a mixed list seems like the best in terms of both fun and competitively. You have a big fun monster to bash things, hard to kill stuff, casters, shoot-y stuff, fast stuff. Seems more fun than the thing I'll try out first (which mostly relies on spells and Teclis) or a kind of super endurance, but really slow all Alarith faction.

But your comment about Teclis (shakes head), you are clearly not a fashionista. Teclis, as always, acted as a trailblazer here. Even Slaanesh* themselves had no choice but to copy Teclis style of extremely hip tassels (known from many a beloved baroque curtain) and airy "Windhosen" to get some street cred with the in-crowd. As you can see from the new Lord of Pain and the spear wielder unleashed to the Underworld. 

*granted, Slaanesh might be a bit out of touch with current trends ....

[Aloth_Corfiser]

11 hours ago, l1censetochill said:

Well, I'm certainly excited to see what the new Underworlds models look like, even if I'll be so wrapped up in painting an army that they probably won't make their way to my table any time soon. And in line with what others are thinking, based on the lore in the Lumineth tome, I'm going to guess that Slaanesh breaking free of its prison will be an end result of the Broken Realms narrative and the impetus for the Tyrionic aelves to get released (probably in late 21 or 22 at the earliest).

On a completely unrelated note, I also found time this weekend to finish my first Dawnrider model:

I've never painted horses before, nor have I ever painted in sub-assemblies, so there was definitely some trial and error involved. Getting the pieces to fit just right post-painting was very difficult, and I hate that they made the decision to require you to glue the sides of the bridle into the horse's mouth (I snapped the rope off twice trying to get all the tiny fragile parts aligned!). But all things considered, I'm still happy with the result. I'm sure next time will be smoother, at any rate!

They look so crisp and clean! I love they way you have have used the blue-violet colour. I got inspired by your crest on the Feathers and did something similar with my Wardens. 
Yeah to assemble the riders was difficult. I also dislike that the Steedmaster essentially has 2 Swords, but I did not dare to remove the Sword in the scabbard, which is attached to the leg of the rider. Was anybody else bothered by this?

[Tiberius501]

Yeah I too found the assembly to be rather fiddly and annoying. I regret building them to completion (besides the shields) because painting has been a huge chore. The next 5 I get I’m going to subassemble a lot more bits. 
And yeah the 2 swords hurts my OCD but I didn’t dare cut it because I don’t want to hurt my precious elfies!