Skreech Verminking Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 38 minutes ago, Euls said: They didn't forget it, scurrying masses is for the bell and the furnace. All other rank & file units already have warband and do not need this, so it's obviously intended. It means the bell/furnace won't be stuck with a horrendously low Ld, now that they cannot join any unit. Thx just had a look. You actually wouldn’t think the bell and the furnace would have it😂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wnerva Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 41 minutes ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said: The argument that I have seen is that you can do it because drilled allows you to reform before the charge, rather than during. Because of that, the rule you quoted supposedly does not apply. The real answer is "it is unclear", though. I heard that argument, and i still think that this reform happens in charge moves, and not in some imaginary subturn that dont exist. Coz before charge moves (subturn where You phisically move Your miniatures) there is only Declare Charges. We just need to w8 and see. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wnerva Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 2 minutes ago, Skreech Verminking said: Thx just had a look. You actually wouldn’t think the bell and the furnace would have it😂 But you would thou. Bell and furnace cant be a part of the unit. So they have to have it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alyra Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 7 minutes ago, Wnerva said: dragons have full plate, so it would be 4+/5+/5+, which is an easy fix as You say. And a great one too. Cannons would have an easier chance to kill it! no, because he said it would be the cap on base armor, but could get upgraded with shield, making a 3+, if i understood it well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wnerva Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 He said lower of the two armour would be used. so 4+. Armour of the dragon. I understood it that way... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skreech Verminking Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 13 minutes ago, Wnerva said: He said lower of the two armour would be used. so 4+. Armour of the dragon. I understood it that way... Wait so if I had a Lord on a chariot, where the chariot has a 4+ armour value, i could then increase that with the shield the lord is carrying by one? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wnerva Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 (edited) 14 minutes ago, Skreech Verminking said: Wait so if I had a Lord on a chariot, where the chariot has a 4+ armour value, i could then increase that with the shield the lord is carrying by one? No. You need to have plate armour on a character to increase whole model armour save to 3+ by buying a shield. Coz You use the better armour of the two (character/chariot or monster) when making a save. Edited February 19 by Wnerva 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcvs Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 Thanks to a lucky star alignment, I got to play another game on Saturday night. 1500pts of my Winter Court (Wood Elves) vs my clubmate's freshly printed bretonnians. We played on an AoS-sized table and it was another very good experience: we played 5 rounds of what I felt was a relatively balanced game (even though the points at the end tilted in my favour, with a victory 1000-300 before counting the Watchtower) in less than 2 hours. More thoughts on the game and a couple of pictures in the spoilers. I'm still kind of amazed of how the game plays smoothly, considering that yes, we were both experienced wargamers, but none of us had ever played WHFB/T9A before. Sure enough, we had our laptops out to search the core rulebook but still. We discussed this afterwards, and we shared the feeling that a) in the end, while movement rules are more restrictive, you're moving less "stuff" around and b) when it's your turn you just get to play. 1500points is more or less where I wanted to stop before, but now I am tempted to try 2k... Now coming to the game itself Spoiler We were playing the watchtower. I knew my opponent would give me first turn because he wanted to pray, so I deployed quite aggressively with all the bows in range. I killed a couple of knights and placed an eagle on the left flank to lure the pegasus knights away from the centre The opponent sent everything forward, killed the eagle with the pegasi, but that was it. I shot some more knights, charged the pegasi with the glade riders on the left (bad idea ) and used the eagle on the right to redirect the knights of the realm and set up the charge of my wild riders. I also moved the small unit of wardancers (the one without Shadowdancer) to screen the rangers on the left from the knight of the realms. My shooting finished the graal knights (sad trombone) In my opponent t2 the pegasi killed the glade riders on the left, the knights of the realm (with prophetess lvl 4) killed the eagle on the right, and the knights of the realm on the left slammed into the wardancers, only killed one (-1 to hit dance ftw) but I rolled a 12 on morale and they ran away 🙄 still, they ended up out of position to chase them down, with my archers on the flank (who were also hidden from the pegasi by a forest). In my t3 my wild riders charged the knights of the realm on the right, but couldn't do much against a 3+/5+/5+. Still they killed some and gave ground -not great considering how much charging is impactufyl and they also lost frenzy. At this point I wasn't feeling too great. Still, I shot some infantry who used some special ability not to flee, and that was it. My opponent brought down his general (a duke on hyppogryph) on my scouts in the centre, obliterating them and leaving the table. The pegasi came to the centre. The knights of the realm had a surprisingly bad round of combat vs the non-charging non-frenzied wild riders so that fight was a draw. In my t4 I brought the glade riders on the left into the knights of the realm to help the wild riders and finished them (and the prophetess). My 6 wardances + shadowdancer charged the knights of the realm on the left together with my general, killing them all. I also finished killing the infantry in the centre. In my opponent's t4, he charged his general into my Glade Lady general, but she was kitted for that (-2 to hit in challenges) so they ended up trading blows for 3 combat phases. The pegasus knights charged the wardancer + shadowdancer, won the combat by 1, and I rolled another 12 for morale (😆). In my t5 they rallied and just put themselves between the pegasi and my general, I started moving my remaining cavalry on the right to go hunt the archers. In his t5 my opponent considered his options, decided against charging the pegasi into the wardancers, rolled another round of combat against my general, didn't do a single wound and we stopped there. And here's the new stuff I added to the Winter Court in the meantime Spoiler A grumpy Treeman (what a struggle to fit it on 50x75mm ) A couple more archers recycled from ASOIAF (can't have too many archers) and finally my favourite, a Glade Lady on Great Stag (or at least, that's what the dwarf who sold her the mount said it is!) 11 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamopower Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 (edited) On 2/18/2024 at 2:57 PM, Sception said: imo mounted monsters should use the lower of the monster or the rider's armor save. the mounts save then becomes a cap on the rider's armor save, but there's still a reason to give the rider armor or a shield. Yes, this would be exactly what I have been thinking as well. In overall having dragons with 2+ save (and ward saves) is very strange design choice when they have made lots of effort on having the 2+ save otherwise for very few cavalry units and reduced the saves (and armour piercing) in general over the whole game. Especially as in the past editions having any additional protection for flying monsters was very limited and they were usually pretty formidable even then. The Tzeentch Eye that gave 3+ ward against shooting is the only one that comes to my mind from 6th, and it was very broken. Edited February 19 by Jamopower Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamopower Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 2 hours ago, Wnerva said: I heard that argument, and i still think that this reform happens in charge moves, and not in some imaginary subturn that dont exist. Coz before charge moves (subturn where You phisically move Your miniatures) there is only Declare Charges. We just need to w8 and see. Reading the drilled rules feels that it is supposed to be possible to first make the redress and then charge, but it's just written bit messily as "move" is not defined properly. It's also how it works in Warhammer Ancient Battles. Also, if it doesn't work during charge, it is pretty seldomly useful ability. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sception Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 43 minutes ago, Jamopower said: In overall having dragons with 2+ save (and ward saves) is very strange design choice when they have made lots of effort on having the 2+ save otherwise for very few cavalry units and reduced the saves (and armour piercing) in general over the whole game. Especially as in the past editions having any additional protection for flying monsters was very limited and they were usually pretty formidable even then. The Tzeentch Eye that gave 3+ ward against shooting is the only one that comes to my mind from 6th, and it was very broken. Yeah, but in most previous editions cool big monster riding heroes were trash, easilly pulled down by a couple cannon shots or even some small arms fire. Combined statlines is the obvious solution to that, and imo they've mostly done a good job of it. The armor saves were combined in the wrong way, but even so imo they're closer to where they should be now than they have been in... forever maybe. Not counting AoS of course. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamopower Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 (edited) 2 hours ago, Sception said: Yeah, but in most previous editions cool big monster riding heroes were trash, easilly pulled down by a couple cannon shots or even some small arms fire. Combined statlines is the obvious solution to that, and imo they've mostly done a good job of it. The armor saves were combined in the wrong way, but even so imo they're closer to where they should be now than they have been in... forever maybe. Not counting AoS of course. Maybe in 8th, but in 6/7th edition they were really strong. Especially the Tzeentch dragon with the 3++ against shooting. There was just a big tradeoff between having magic or monster lord, that usually was favoured for magic. edit: and by very strong, I mean not un-killable, but so strong that it needed to be dealt, and one of the reasons those cannons (or 4 bolt throwers) were there to start with, were the (high) possibilites of facing a dragon, or some other strong monster such as stegadon, treeman, greater daemon or a steam tank. The chaos dragon was particularly strong, because it was so hard to kill and there was hardly anything else in the army (common set-up was lord on dragon, one or two disc riding exalted champions, three chariots as core, some screamers and a hellcannon, (which was also very hard to kill and expensive). The army was very strong because of points denial, they didn't need to kill that much, because it was so hard to get more than few hundred victory points of them. I'd imagine the current dragon lords (especially when you can get two in 2000 points), would work in very similar fashion, though it changes things that it is in general more difficult to get points in this edition. Edited February 19 by Jamopower Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wnerva Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 3 hours ago, Jamopower said: Also, if it doesn't work during charge, it is pretty seldomly useful ability. there are units with low LD, and the rule allows marching. So its not that unuseful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamopower Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 16 hours ago, Wnerva said: there are units with low LD, and the rule allows marching. So its not that unuseful. I believe drilled is mostly an option for the elite infantry (e.g. many dwarf units) that have pretty high Ld to start with. It has some use, but I'd say quite niche for the additional cost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackStreicher Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 (edited) Cannon Fire, optimal distance from Target base (so rolling the distance would hit the base) 2" distance = 1/36 -> 2,7% 4" distance = 6/36 -> 16,67% 6" distance = 10/36 -> 27,78% 8" distance = 13/36 -> 36,11% 10" distance = 15/36 -> 41,17% Aiming at monsters: 10" ahead of the base edge opposite of the cannon‘s facing puts your hit chance to 41,17% Cheers Edited February 20 by JackStreicher 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunshine Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 When do we reckon the second wave of Bretonnian models will be released? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mordeus Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 Don't know, but I really find it disappointing not to at least release the foot knights for people with unbuilt knights to convert them. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackStreicher Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 3 hours ago, Mordeus said: Don't know, but I really find it disappointing not to at least release the foot knights for people with unbuilt knights to convert them. I‘d really like to see how such conversions will look! (are there some online I might not know about?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerekKruger Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 4 hours ago, Mordeus said: Don't know, but I really find it disappointing not to at least release the foot knights for people with unbuilt knights to convert them. It's such a no brainer to do isn't it. Even something as simple as using foot knight heads on old mounted knights will add a lot. Go a step further and you could go a long way to making the old kits feel fresh. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ogregut Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 30 minutes ago, JerekKruger said: It's such a no brainer to do isn't it. Even something as simple as using foot knight heads on old mounted knights will add a lot. Go a step further and you could go a long way to making the old kits feel fresh. This. I'm having a ball building armies from old models and mixing in new one or just using AoS models but I don't want to do anything with the brets I got in the army box until I get the new knights on foot and switch and swap heads and weapons and such. I'm can see the logic of not releasing the 2nd wave of stuff when some people haven't received the 1st wave yet. I wonder if they are producing extra stock. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jefferson Skarsnik Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 (edited) Nearly done with the front rank of my swordmasters, and slowly rescuing some seaguard and assorted Ebayed character models from their inferior 2019 paintjobs [spoiler] [/spoiler] Edited February 21 by Jefferson Skarsnik 7 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davariel Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 7 hours ago, Ogregut said: This. I'm having a ball building armies from old models and mixing in new one or just using AoS models but I don't want to do anything with the brets I got in the army box until I get the new knights on foot and switch and swap heads and weapons and such. I'm can see the logic of not releasing the 2nd wave of stuff when some people haven't received the 1st wave yet. I wonder if they are producing extra stock. Meanwhile, I'll be very surprised if I manage to paint even half the peasants in the army box before the foot knights are released... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Kim Woof-Woof Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 6 hours ago, Jefferson Skarsnik said: Nearly done with the front rank of my swordmasters, and slowly rescuing some seaguard and assorted Ebayed character models from their inferior 2019 paintjobs [spoiler] [/spoiler] Why do I know the cloaked character in the Swordmasters so well? Was he from Mordheim? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ejecutor Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 31 minutes ago, Big Kim Woof-Woof said: Why do I know the cloaked character in the Swordmasters so well? Was he from Mordheim? He is from Mordheim. Yes. He came with a Whitedwarf magazine. It is called Aenur, Sword of Twilight. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Kim Woof-Woof Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 33 minutes ago, Ejecutor said: He is from Mordheim. Yes. He came with a Whitedwarf magazine. It is called Aenur, Sword of Twilight. Ah, that'd be why he's so familiar... I probably painted the freebie! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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