Sabush Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 3 hours ago, Flippy said: You can do this one specific thing with the Battlemage and it's only because of the multiple models attached to this warscroll, all of them transferred from WHFB. The regular AoS situation (at least for small heroes) is that you only have a single, non-customizable model and the corresponding warscroll with extremely limited customisation options. Even if you believe that the result is lower barrier to entry (I don't think that's the case), this also means that you lose the potential to field two similar heroes, unless you customize the model by yourself (and that is an actual entry barrier). How am I supposed to field two Endrinmasters if there is only one model available? Does GW really expect me to buy copies of same hero model? How is then AoS supposed to keep refining its focus by committing to lowering barriers to entry further? Remove any unit customization altogether? You are of course right about the importance of fun during downtime element, as most of the hobby time is spent either on models (building, painting), fluff, list-building or activities such as TGA discussions - and AoS is no different from WHFB in this regard. (Apologies for going off-topic) Maybe it's just me, but the way you format your text makes it almost impossible to read. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sception Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 23 hours ago, Landohammer said: We would just be capping units that otherwise have no cap. So 2 per 1000 would not change but for example you couldn't have more than 3 units of glade guard. It's basically the same thing GW did at their first TOW matched play event. It's not perfect, and there are examples of where it's not fair (see orks and goblins) but it helps loosely mitigate the super silly stuff like all gyrocopter armies or extreme shooting spam. Fair enough i guess, but I'm not sure I see how 6 units of glade guard in a 2000 point game is a bigger problem than 6 great cannons. Not a criticism of you and your group specifically, more of the current semi-official rule of 3 as it is currently worded. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Landohammer Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 1 minute ago, Sception said: Fair enough i guess, but I'm not sure I see how 6 units of glade guard in a 2000 point game is a bigger problem than 6 great cannons. Not a criticism of you and your group specifically, more of the current semi-official rule of 3 as it is currently worded. Understood. To be honest I don't have enough TOW games under my belt to really know what is gonna be problematic. But we are hoping to rely on people to police themselves to some degree. The rule of 3 and 10 man wide caps are just soft nudges. I am fortunate enough to have a really healthy 40k and Sigmar community around me, and I already play about 7 games a month. So I am comfortable with being picky on who I choose to play TOW with. The best way to cure Tryhard fever is just to let them play each other. 🤣 Let me steal a quote real quick that sums up my stance on the whole issue of TO'ing TOW events: I can't define what an abusive list is but I know it when I see it. 🤣 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hollow Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 I was rummaging through various boxes and dusty chests in the forgotten depths of my game room, and look what I found! Over a couple of hours, I've managed to cobble together a rag-tag collection of High Elves that have most definitely seen better days. (I don't think they have even seen the light of day for 20 years) Chips, cracks, broken weapons, missing shields and tails (Although I was happy to be able to find all the parts for the broken-up Prince on Griffon at the top right). Time to order some correctly sized bases, pull out the Isopropyl, greenstuff and modelling tools and hit up eBay for some missing components! The janky High Elves of the dusty box shall ride again! 4 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ogregut Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 1 minute ago, Hollow said: I was rummaging through various boxes and dusty chests in the forgotten depths of my game room, and look what I found! Over a couple of hours, I've managed to cobble together a rag-tag collection of High Elves that have most definitely seen better days. (I don't think they have even seen the light of day for 20 years) Chips, cracks, broken weapons, missing shields and tails (Although I was happy to be able to find all the parts for the broken-up Prince on Griffon at the top right). Time to order some correctly sized bases, pull out the Isopropyl, greenstuff and modelling tools and hit up eBay for some missing components! The janky High Elves of the dusty box shall ride again! What a beautiful sight!!! Love they are getting their time to shine! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sception Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 1 hour ago, Landohammer said: To be honest I don't have enough TOW games under my belt to really know what is gonna be problematic. Honestly, neither do I. Cannons feel problematic at first glance, especially if we want big cool monster heroes to be viable. However, most factions don't have access to cannons, and even for the armies that have them they aren't exactly cheap to spam, and they're coming out of special points, so spamming cannons really limits what the rest of the army can be in a way that spammed glade guard for example really don't. So in practice, I could easily be worried over nothing. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Landohammer Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 12 minutes ago, Sception said: Honestly, neither do I. Cannons feel problematic at first glance, especially if we want big cool monster heroes to be viable. However, most factions don't have access to cannons, and even for the armies that have them they aren't exactly cheap to spam, and they're coming out of special points, so spamming cannons really limits what the rest of the army can be in a way that spammed glade guard for example really don't. So in practice, I could easily be worried over nothing. My observation is that heroes are going to be quite strong in this edition. I have already faced a 2+ rerollable armor save Baron with +D3 attacks and a damage 2 weapon. (it killed a Treeman in a single combat). So in theory cannons could serve as a means to deterring/countering them. Cannons seem to lose their value once all the large targets are dead or in combat. Bc as with all artillery, LOS is the main challenge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamopower Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 (edited) I believe everyone would prefer to face 3x10 gladeguard instead of 6x5. Even if they wouldn’t be the most powerful thing out there. Though I do feel that glade guard are very good. I just painted more myself Edited February 6 by Jamopower Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Red King Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 36 minutes ago, Hollow said: I was rummaging through various boxes and dusty chests in the forgotten depths of my game room, and look what I found! Over a couple of hours, I've managed to cobble together a rag-tag collection of High Elves that have most definitely seen better days. (I don't think they have even seen the light of day for 20 years) Chips, cracks, broken weapons, missing shields and tails (Although I was happy to be able to find all the parts for the broken-up Prince on Griffon at the top right). Time to order some correctly sized bases, pull out the Isopropyl, greenstuff and modelling tools and hit up eBay for some missing components! The janky High Elves of the dusty box shall ride again! If you're in the US or don't mind shipping I think I've got most of an isle of blood box somewhere I'd be happy to part with so someone can bring them back to life! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hollow Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 (edited) 10 hours ago, Tonhel said: I have so much more fun with making armylists for WoC and the Empire than I have with StD and CoS I have mentioned this before regarding AoS factions, but I don't think they have enough infantry/cavalry options. So many of the factions are top-heavy, with lots of centre-pieces, characters, monsters etc but not many options when it comes to "boots on the ground". The experience of building a list in AoS feels a lot more like deck building and putting together a warband, as opposed to mustering an actual army. The High Elves in ToW have the Ulthuan Militia (Spearmen or Archers), Sea Guard, White Lions, Sword Masters, Pheonix Guard, Shadow Warriors and Sisters of Avelorn. That's 8/9 different options when it comes to infantry units alone. (Never mind the granular size, magic items, command and formation options) The Lumineth have the Vanari Auralan (Sentinals or Wardens), Blade Lords and Stone Guard. That's it... and the Lumineth are one of the better-supported factions in AoS. I really hope we see more factions get decent, 10-man units added to their roasters in AoS 4. Put some meat on their bones. As well as more options when it comes to building a unit. Edited February 6 by Hollow 5 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerekKruger Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 (edited) For those near to Nottingham, Warhammer World was replete with the Tomb Kings army set this afternoon (I counted 14). Sadly no Bretonnian sets, and pretty much nothing else either, just a handful of the individual finecast or resin kits (Settra, Grail Knight Command, Ushabti with bows, Mounted Yeomen), most the various bases, and the movement trays. Also Element Games had large amounts of stock (10+ status) of the Core Book, Ravening Hordes and Forces of Fantasy for sale online. Edited February 6 by JerekKruger 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hollow Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 28 minutes ago, The Red King said: If you're in the US or don't mind shipping I think I've got most of an isle of blood box somewhere I'd be happy to part with so someone can bring them back to life! Cheers, but I'm in the UK and this is already more than enough for me to be getting on with (I'm also doing Bretonnia and Beasts for ToW and have 40k, AoS and HH as well! 😅) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerekKruger Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 Has anyone managed to base the new Chaos Lord on Daemonic Mount for TOW yet? I am a bit nervous about getting him to fit, even on the 50x75mm option. I really wanted to find a way to fit him on a 40x60mm base for the ease of ranking him up with knights, but having seen his much bigger his horse is than Chaos Knights (who are already pretty tight on 30x60mm bases) I'm fairly certain that'd be impossible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jefferson Skarsnik Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 32 minutes ago, JerekKruger said: lso Element Games had large amounts of stock (10+ status) of the Core Book, Ravening Hordes and Forces of Fantasy for sale online. Thanks, this has saved me from Wayland Games back-order purgatory at last 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackStreicher Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 (edited) Got a question am I the only one who interpreted the Martial Prowess rule to grant the ability to do supporting attacks and in addition towards all directions? (No one in our local club could make sense of the rule, reddit however was very clear in the response) In short: Am I the only one who thinks this isn‘t well formulated? (I know its intend is to only work with models that can fight in an extra rank) citation: „A unit with this special rule can make supporting attacks to its flank or rear, as well as to its front.“ Edited February 6 by JackStreicher Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerekKruger Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 12 minutes ago, Jefferson Skarsnik said: Thanks, this has saved me from Wayland Games back-order purgatory at last Glad I could help. I cancelled my WG order at the weekend, deciding if just order them if/when they became available again. Only reason I checked EG today was to see if they had a discount on 30mm bases (I was in Warhammer World and weighing up whether to buy them the or not) and what do you know, they have stock. My guess is their decision not to do online orders initially might have allowed them to build stock where others didn't, and now they feel comfortable selling online again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ejecutor Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 2 hours ago, Hollow said: I have mentioned this before regarding AoS factions, but I don't think they have enough infantry/cavalry options. So many of the factions are top-heavy, with lots of centre-pieces, characters, monsters etc but not many options when it comes to "boots on the ground". The experience of building a list in AoS feels a lot more like deck building and putting together a warband, as opposed to mustering an actual army. The High Elves in ToW have the Ulthuan Militia (Spearmen or Archers), Sea Guard, White Lions, Sword Masters, Pheonix Guard, Shadow Warriors and Sisters of Avelorn. That's 8 different options when it comes to infantry units alone. (Never mind the granular size, magic items, command and formation options) The Lumineth have the Vanari Auralan (Sentinals or Wardens), Blade Lords and Stone Guard. That's it... and the Lumineth are one of the better-supported factions in AoS. I really hope we see more factions get decent, 10-man units added to their roasters in AoS 4. Put some meat on their bones. As well as more options when it comes to building a unit. We cannot compare a game with 40 years vs one with 10. If we look at the high elves with 10 years I am pretty sure they didn't have either such a solid roster. Probably the ones with 20 years were also lacking a lot of choices. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ogregut Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 1 hour ago, JackStreicher said: Got a question am I the only one who interpreted the Martial Prowess rule to grant the ability to do supporting attacks and in addition towards all directions? (No one in our local club could make sense of the rule, reddit however was very clear in the response) In short: Am I the only one who thinks this isn‘t well formulated? (I know its intend is to only work with models that can fight in an extra rank) citation: „A unit with this special rule can make supporting attacks to its flank or rear, as well as to its front.“ Isn't that the point of the rule? They can fight in 2 ranks (if charged) in any direction. 1 hour ago, JerekKruger said: Glad I could help. I cancelled my WG order at the weekend, deciding if just order them if/when they became available again. Only reason I checked EG today was to see if they had a discount on 30mm bases (I was in Warhammer World and weighing up whether to buy them the or not) and what do you know, they have stock. My guess is their decision not to do online orders initially might have allowed them to build stock where others didn't, and now they feel comfortable selling online again. They do that quite often, they don't sell online, wait until everyone sells out then put stuff online at full price. You can still get some of the Xmas battleforces, again at full price. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcvs Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 (edited) 36 minutes ago, Ejecutor said: We cannot compare a game with 40 years vs one with 10. If we look at the high elves with 10 years I am pretty sure they didn't have either such a solid roster. Probably the ones with 20 years were also lacking a lot of choices. The problem is that the actual number of entries in the battletome might be close to the one in the army list, it's just that, has it has been mentioned, it's mostly for leaders and similar -and it's difficult not to feel that this is also because of the crazy markup on single heroes/centrepieces Ok just checked: 23-ish entries in the high elves army list Vs 25 for lumineth on warscroll builder Edited February 6 by Marcvs 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baron Klatz Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 10 minutes ago, Marcvs said: and it's difficult not to feel that this is also because of the crazy markup on single heroes/centrepieces Yeah and AoS fits that design philosophy. GW’s bigger mark ups means it’s more feasible they focus on skirmish sized games with common monster centerpieces & elite troops they can go absolutely ham on with details, designs and extra bits to justify the price tag with AoS’ over-the-top Epic Fantasy setting they can express through those crazy designs down to even Steelhelm infantry being walking canvases. It’s kinda the opposite of Wfb/TOW which branches out from a hero design and spreads out into multiple types of infantry. AoS take one infantry type and branches out into multiple types of monsters & heroes. A World conquered by armies vs Realms conquered by gods & monsters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lavieth Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 (edited) After some tinkering with the Forces of Fantasy book and looking over what I have, I think this is a list I will start using. I've always been a fan of the white lions of chrace since i was a 10. During 8th edition, I was converting an army built from the plastic white lions, but we know what happened. I started Sylvaneth, lmao. They were the only whfb project I held onto. I am not entirely bothered if it's not a great or even a good list because it will look awesome on the table. The Ellyrion reavers are going to be represented by white lions from the chariot. I have 15 spare, so that is why they don't have bows, but do have a champion (the leaping one lion). The Host of Chrace CHARACTERS Prince - chracian hunter - chracian great-blade - lion cloak - shield - lion chariot - armour of caledor - seed of rebirth 322 points Archmage - hand weapon - level 4 - silvery wand - loremasters cloak 225 points CORE 20 Elven Spearmen - thrusting spear - light armour - shield - full command - shield wall - banner of ellyrion 225 points 20 Elven Archers - hand weapon - long bow - light armour - full command 235 points 2x5 Ellyrian Reavers - hand weapon - cavalry spear - light armour - champion - skirmishers 188 points SPECIAL 20 White Lions of Chrace - chracian great-blade - heavy armour - lion cloak - full command - lion standard 323 points 2x1 Lion Chariots of Chrace - hand weapon - chracian great-blade - lion cloak 250 points 10 Shadow Warriors - hand weapon - long bow - light armour - champion 146 points RARE 1 Eagle-Claw Repeater Bolt Thrower - repeater bolt thrower - hand weapon - light armour 80 points Army Total: 1994 points Edited February 6 by Lavieth 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ejecutor Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 29 minutes ago, Marcvs said: The problem is that the actual number of entries in the battletome might be close to the one in the army list, it's just that, has it has been mentioned, it's mostly for leaders and similar -and it's difficult not to feel that this is also because of the crazy markup on single heroes/centrepieces Ok just checked: 23-ish entries in the high elves army list Vs 25 for lumineth on warscroll builder I think that's something inherited from the type of game that we have in each case. One is a rank and flank armies game and the other one is a skirmish game, where you use a smaller bit of an army. Said that I would love more troops. Especially once you have armies with a decent number of heroes. If there's not that much I don't mind a few more to fill (like in the case of CoS, if we only count new releases). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonhel Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 (edited) 41 minutes ago, Baron Klatz said: Yeah and AoS fits that design philosophy. GW’s bigger mark ups means it’s more feasible they focus on skirmish sized games with common monster centerpieces & elite troops they can go absolutely ham on with details, designs and extra bits to justify the price tag with AoS’ over-the-top Epic Fantasy setting they can express through those crazy designs down to even Steelhelm infantry being walking canvases. It’s kinda the opposite of Wfb/TOW which branches out from a hero design and spreads out into multiple types of infantry. AoS take one infantry type and branches out into multiple types of monsters & heroes. A World conquered by armies vs Realms conquered by gods & monsters. Lol, if we are talking about immersion: In TOW my Chaos lord eats goblin warbosses / big bosses as breakfeast, but in AoS he hides from a single loonboss. 😄 Edit: "TOW blows AoS out of the water with all the hero options. You can really make your own heroes you like and love. With AoS there is only a warscroll, that's it and probably everybody uses the same artefact for that hero warscroll" I like the new CoS miniatures and bought the armybox, but there is not really anything that justifies the price tag of the Steelhelms, nor do I think the steelhelms have a lot of options for the command figures or have lot of other extra's. I am a huge fan of different patreons/tribes and there are lots of Elves/human kits that easly rival anything that GW produces and certainly in monsters. Imo GW doesn't come close, certainly when you take in account the prices you have to pay for it. Edited February 6 by Tonhel 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerekKruger Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 1 hour ago, Ogregut said: They do that quite often, they don't sell online, wait until everyone sells out then put stuff online at full price. You can still get some of the Xmas battleforces, again at full price. In this case, they are offering their usual 15% discount on the TOW books, which is as good or even better than a lot of other 3rd party sellers are/were. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ejecutor Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 13 minutes ago, Tonhel said: Lol, if we are talking about immersion: In TOW my Chaos lord eats goblin warbosses / big bosses as breakfeast, but in AoS he hides from a single loonboss. 😄 Edit: "TOW blows AoS out of the water with all the hero options. You can really make your own heroes you like and love. With AoS there is only a warscroll, that's it and probably everybody uses the same artefact for that hero warscroll" I like the new CoS miniatures and bought the armybox, but there is not really anything that justifies the price tag of the Steelhelms, nor do I think the steelhelms have a lot of options for the command figures or have lot of other extra's. I am a huge fan of different patreons/tribes and there are lots of Elves/human kits that easly rival anything that GW produces and certainly in monsters. Imo GW doesn't come close, certainly when you take in account the prices you have to pay for it. I love lastwords, they are fellow countrymen, but while I agree they really have cool designs, resins cannot be compared to plastic. The day those companies provide plastic kits, the game would spice it up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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