Warhammer - The Old World

[The Lost Sigmarite]

So they are sorta bring back the Battalion boxes instead of doing a launch box ? That's surprinsingly in theme with what WFB proposed. 

[Chikout]

My guess is that we'll see Harbinger style boxes. One new plastic character in each and a bunch of old minis. It feels like they are adopting the Middle Earth model for this. One or two plastic kits per quarter and a random selection of resin minis. I'd expect pricing to be similar too as the old middle earth plastics and the old Warhammer fantasy plastics are about the same age. 

[GhostShark]

On 8/23/2023 at 7:11 AM, cyrus said:

- Instead of one starter box with both Tomb Kings and Bretonnians each will get their own box

 

This was pretty much verified by the designers already a few months ago, right? When they said there wouldn't be a starter box with  two armies, but there would be launch boxes.

It makes me wonder if army boxes will be the release model. Starting with these two, and then another one every few months as they're ready to introduce more models for different armies.

Edited August 26, 2023 by GhostShark

[cyrus]

2 hours ago, GhostShark said:

This was pretty much verified by the designers already a few months ago, right? When they said there wouldn't be a starter box with  two armies, but there would be launch boxes.

It makes me wonder if army boxes will be the release model. Starting with these two, and then another one every few months as they're ready to introduce more models for different armies.

Yes , it seems so.

[Wraith]

19 hours ago, GhostShark said:

This was pretty much verified by the designers already a few months ago, right? When they said there wouldn't be a starter box with  two armies, but there would be launch boxes.

It makes me wonder if army boxes will be the release model. Starting with these two, and then another one every few months as they're ready to introduce more models for different armies.

It depends on whose point of view we take. For example, from an Ogre Kingdom's point of view, we are looking to start with two lunch boxes.

[Wraith]

So, I guess ToW release date should be announced in four weeks, then?

No doubt that release date will be 10 years in the further to coincide with 50 years of Warhammer. That would make pre orders around mid October, 2033.

[EccentricCircle]

Something occurred to me the other day. We don't know precisely what GW are manufacturing, but we have some evidence. If ToW is around the corner they must have spun up their metal casting machinery to put the old models back into production. Those machines gave mostly been used for Made to Order over the last few years (and topping up the odd Skaven and LotR unit.)

 

But it has been a long time since we last got a made to order. They've not done many wfb ones at all, but last year we were getting one for LotR or 40k almost every month as part of the Range Rotation scheme. 

 

Then they just stopped happening more or less. I don't recall quite when, but I bet that's around the time ToW went into full production!

Edited September 14, 2023 by EccentricCircle

[Wraith]

You're right! There is definitely a pattern emerging!

[Jator]

4 hours ago, Wraith said:

So, I guess ToW release date should be announced in four weeks, then?

No doubt that release date will be 10 years in the further to coincide with 50 years of Warhammer. That would make pre orders around mid October, 2033.

That would be the ideal scenario, BUT...we know Legion Imperialis was delayed. Would that mean TOW would be delayed too to fit the new schedule? Or maybe the same issue that affected not-Epic is affecting not-Fantasy? We don't know, but better not to get our hopes up.

[Sathrut]

I do find it funny when people insist TOW in coming in 2025-26 (or beyond):

GW: Here are some plastic renders

People: Release is coming 2025.

GW: Rebased/repainted armies! Photos revealing what kits are returning! Photos that are clearly from a rulebook!

People: Release is coming in 2025.

GW: HERE ARE FOUR BRAND NEW MINIATURES!

People: Release is coming in 2025.

Me: Oh, it's coming in 2025? 2025 is going to be a tough year on the wallet. Malerion? Fantastic model. New Tyrion? Blindingly brilliant. They clearly took a deep dive into our oceans for inspiration, because those new Idoneth are stunning! The Beastmen refresh is looking to be one of the best yet, I love how they've expanded beyond "goats/cows/"! Warcry just keeps hitting it out of the ballpark, the Chaos Dwarfs look insane! Oh man...is that...SILENT PEOPLE IN UNDERWORLDS?!

Exodites in 40K? DINOSAURS WITH LASERS! Tau auxiliaries beyond Kroot and Vespids?! Another Primarch? Boring, but expected. NEW Nightbringer and Deceiver? Instant buy, absolutely amazing minis! Oh wow, that's lots of other stuff for BB, HH, LI, Necromunda, Kill Team.

--------------------

I genuinely can't see the benefit for GW revealing new miniatures two years before their actual release. If there is one, why aren't they revealing new minis for all their games two years in advance?

They haven't shown the FEC that are coming within the next 3-4 months, or anything for any other system. It doesn't make any sense. It flies in the face of how they operate; it gives other companies a chance to produce their own versions of said minis. GW are already struggling with production at the moment, so if other issues internal and/or external arise, TOW could be delayed again and again.

Plenty of people are preparing for the TOW now. How many will still be interested by 2025? How many will be priced out (2025 is not the year GW suddenly becomes cheaper)?

 

Edited September 14, 2023 by Sathrut

[Wraith]

21 hours ago, Sathrut said:

I genuinely can't see the benefit for GW revealing new miniatures two years before their actual release. If there is one, why aren't they revealing new minis for all their games two years in advance?

They haven't shown the FEC that are coming within the next 3-4 months, or anything for any other system. It doesn't make any sense. It flies in the face of how they operate; it gives other companies a chance to produce their own versions of said minis. GW are already struggling with production at the moment, so if other issues internal and/or external arise, TOW could be delayed again and again.

Plenty of people are preparing for the TOW now. How many will still be interested by 2025? How many will be priced out (2025 is not the year GW suddenly becomes cheaper)?

 

The ToW project was announced 3 years ago (or was it 4?), which is not standard practice. I doubt it really counts as a marketing exercise as it has been so drawn out, which leads many to suspect an ulterior motive such as maintaining a claim to living IP of the Old World so they can keep getting their royalties from certain computer games is the real objective. It quite possibly might be the case that they have announced minis that won't be released for yonks.

Since the ToW team have seen fit to release no more news, we have nothing but clues and logic to guide us. One theory is that there will be the final ToW release announcement on Warhammer Day this year to mark the 40th anniversary of Warhammer. Personally, I'd be happy with just the new bases and a list of base sizes for each model so I can get an army organised.

[Kaleb Daark]

On 7/26/2023 at 8:59 AM, Public Universal Duardin said:

The only worry I have is that instead of the conga lines 40K had a few editions ago, TOW will get armies doing line dance. I mean, unless there's restrictions in place what prevents me from running a 100-man (well, Dwarf) wide unit of dwarfs with great axes lmao

You'll have nothing to worry about, my bearded friend.

Ranks and flanks are all about base to base contact.

If it's anything like the old wfb then you won't be playing that conga line shenanigan after the first time.

first terrain or obstacle you come to  you'd have to reform the unit to get through the gap either through changing ranking or changing facing.

ranks mean fortitude and a single rank however  long will crumble to stiff wind as units smashing into it with multiple ranks will get extra attacks in on the second rank, or third if they are over a certain size or weapon type.

Movement and positioning in wfb was far more critical and stricter than it ever was in 40k or AoS.  You won't be able to do that whole waft around the board and rely on 1" coherency thing in a rank and flank game, and that's before the tzeentch wizard on disc goes to the end of the conga line and threw a purple sun down it and took the unit out in one hit.

 

I'm really looking forward to it.

The only thing I've always dreaded since the day it was announced?

Khorne and Frenzy.

In old fantasy, mark of khorne was the most expensive mark for your warriors, and the only mark that you could lose.

Instead of giving you +1 strength or the effects of frenzy permanently you just got frenzy.

Frenzy was conditional - it gave you immunity to psychology and +1 attack, but of you lost a battle round you lost the frenzy.

You also had to charge the nearest opponent unit unless you made a leadership so a vampire count with a swarm of bats on a bad day would have your horde of 50 halberd warriors running around the board chasing it like a bad comedy.

It sucked balls, and I really really hated that rule.

I always wished that MoK would give a +1 to strength, given the swollen bulk and savagery of the models it always just made more sense - let slaanesh and the elves get the flurry and speed of blows in - but if the khorne unit survived - you knew that under that strength of attack, you wouldn't.

 

So in answer to your concern... I think you'll be pleasantly surprised.

[Kaleb Daark]

I also think it's a very clever move thus far that they haven't released base sizes so that those with existing old world armies can't get a head start and start basing.

 

Brets.. oh happy happy days.  I've got my dwarves, so the dwarf hold of karak-Kaboom will march once more and now just waiting on brets to unleash a glorious panoply of heraldic colour.

[Kaleb Daark]

On 8/8/2023 at 3:17 PM, Clan's Cynic said:

Tzaangors being present is an interesting one, might foreshadow them having rules in TOW?

There's a lot of monstrous arcanum and storm of magic scrolls of binding monsters in that thar trailer 🤔

Edited September 15, 2023 by Kaleb Daark

[Marcvs]

2 hours ago, Kaleb Daark said:

I also think it's a very clever move thus far that they haven't released base sizes so that those with existing old world armies can't get a head start and start basing.

Didn't know it was a race!

Jokes aside, I think it's more likely that they haven't released it to avoid people buying from 3d prints / alternative ranges before GW starts selling the new/old models

[Sathrut]

3 hours ago, Wraith said:

The ToW project was announced 3 years ago (or was it 4?), which is not standard practice. I doubt it really counts as a marketing exercise as it has been so drawn out, which leads many to suspect an ulterior motive such as maintaining a claim to living IP of the Old World so they can keep getting their royalties from certain computer games is the real objective. It quite possibly might be the case that they have announced minis that won't be released for yonks.

Since the ToW team have seen fit to release no more news, we have nothing but clues and logic to guide us. One theory is that there will be the final ToW release announcement on Warhammer Day this year to mark the 40th anniversary of Warhammer. Personally, I'd be happy with just the new bases and a list of base sizes for each model so I can get an army organised.

Oh, GW did themselves no favours when they announced TOW 3 years ago (4 years in November). It's been a drip-feed of articles with minimal substance until this year; showing new miniatures and renders alongside army shots of repainted/rebased armies (with tons of returning kits) has increased the levels of hype, but the lack of rules previews, base sizes, background, new plastics, what kits are returning, what will they do with kits (or range, with Beastmen) currently used for AoS but being shown in TOW articles, contributes to the perception that TOW is nothing more than vapourware.

Yeah, it'd be funny if the 40th anniversary of Warhammer passes and we don't even get a "TOW: Coming October 2024", and nothing else. I doubt we'll get anything about rules/base sizes/returning kits until a month or two before the actual release date, especially bases, as releasing that information now would result in other companies producing bases whereas GW is obviously going to want people to buy bases from GW.

[Noserenda]

Not sure its clever being mysterious about it, rebasing an army is a tedious chore so giving me a bit of time to get it done in a surge of enthusiasm is probably a better idea than being mildly frustrating and risking me not  being bothered at all or just going third party or printing a brand new army rather than adding to an old one because ive already got a leg in the water.

May have been eyeballing historicals when i was at firestorm recently for exactly this purpose You can already get all kinds of bases in all kinds of materials from all sorts of places, i dont think anyone is going to be making a new range of bases for ToW unless GW have gone for some really obscure new sizes, which feels unlikely  

[cyrus]

Via Dakka Dakka

 

New Valrak rumours

Summary:
Release Q1 2024

Boxset contents:
Each box get their own core rulesets (probably means core rulebook in both boxes?)

Bretonnia: 70+ models
Big chunk of Men-at-Arms (two units?)
Big chunk of Archers
Two lances of Knights
Unit of three Pegasus knights
Lord on Pegasus

Only the Lord on Pegasus will be new, everything else is old fantasy models

Tomb Kings: 90+ models
Skeletons
Archers
Knights (Necropolis Knights?)
Chariots
Lich riding a Dragon

again only the Lich will be new.

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

6 minutes ago, cyrus said:

Via Dakka Dakka

 

New Valrak rumours

Summary:
Release Q1 2024

Boxset contents:
Each box get their own core rulesets (probably means core rulebook in both boxes?)

Bretonnia: 70+ models
Big chunk of Men-at-Arms (two units?)
Big chunk of Archers
Two lances of Knights
Unit of three Pegasus knights
Lord on Pegasus

Only the Lord on Pegasus will be new, everything else is old fantasy models

Tomb Kings: 90+ models
Skeletons
Archers
Knights (Necropolis Knights?)
Chariots
Lich riding a Dragon

again only the Lich will be new.

Weird that the boxes supposedly do not include all the new models we have already seen, like the new foot knight and tomb prince.

Also, those are some huge boxes if true. 70+ and 90+ models is a lot. In AoS terms, that is a full army each. What are the prices going to be like, 400€?

[LordSolarMach]

38 minutes ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

Weird that the boxes supposedly do not include all the new models we have already seen, like the new foot knight and tomb prince.

Those models are in resin.

[Twisted Firaun]

54 minutes ago, cyrus said:

Via Dakka Dakka

 

New Valrak rumours

Summary:
Release Q1 2024

Boxset contents:
Each box get their own core rulesets (probably means core rulebook in both boxes?)

Bretonnia: 70+ models
Big chunk of Men-at-Arms (two units?)
Big chunk of Archers
Two lances of Knights
Unit of three Pegasus knights
Lord on Pegasus

Only the Lord on Pegasus will be new, everything else is old fantasy models

Tomb Kings: 90+ models
Skeletons
Archers
Knights (Necropolis Knights?)
Chariots
Lich riding a Dragon

again only the Lich will be new.

I'm sorry, when and where did we get news about a Liche Priest riding a DRAGON?! 

Edited September 18, 2023 by Twisted Firaun

[LordSolarMach]

Just now, Twisted Firaun said:

I'm sorry, when and where did we get news about a Liche Priest riding a DRAGON?! 

That's actually been kicking around for a bit.

//

I find the "Liche on Dragon" rumour to be so... weird.

People say that the Tomb Kings had a dragon in Warmaster, but they really didn't. It was The Undead that had a Hero on Zombie Dragon - yes, The Undead were nudged closer to what would become the Tomb Kings (due to Vampire Counts splitting off) but that Warmaster army pre-dated the 6th edition Tomb Kings WHFB release. It still had Wraiths and, well, Zombie Dragons.

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

Just now, LordSolarMach said:

That's actually been kicking around for a bit.

//

I find the "Liche on Dragon" rumour to be so... weird.

People say that the Tomb Kings had a dragon in Warmaster, but they really didn't. It was The Undead that had a Hero on Zombie Dragon - yes, The Undead were nudged closer to what would become the Tomb Kings (due to Vampire Counts splitting off) but that Warmaster army pre-dated the 6th edition Tomb Kings WHFB release. It still had Wraiths and, well, Zombie Dragons.

I find that weird as well. A dragon seems really random as a mount. They couldn't pull a Liche Priest on Bone Scarab or whatever out of their hat?

[Sathrut]

58 minutes ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

Weird that the boxes supposedly do not include all the new models we have already seen, like the new foot knight and tomb prince.

Also, those are some huge boxes if true. 70+ and 90+ models is a lot. In AoS terms, that is a full army each. What are the prices going to be like, 400€?

The only new models we've seen are all resin: Tomb King, Paladin, mounted Bretonnia Standard Bearer, and the Prophetess Élisse Duchaard. They won't put resin in boxsets.

If these rumours turn out to be true, it doesn't exactly inspire confidence that their focus on TK and Bret (as announced at WarhammerFest), so far has resulted in four new resin minis, two new plastic hero (Lord on Pegasus, Liche on dragon), and confirmed plastic footknights (renders only so far).

To launch with a bunch of old plastic kits, the same kits that were such poor sellers it led to GW not carrying both factions into AoS, is...honestly shooting themselves in the foot, especially if *actual* new plastic units are limited to 1-2 kits per faction every 6 months or so.

Edited September 18, 2023 by Sathrut

[Beliman]

1 hour ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

Also, those are some huge boxes if true. 70+ and 90+ models is a lot. In AoS terms, that is a full army each. What are the prices going to be like, 400€?

Looking at other Specialist games, I expect high prices like 250€ for a starter set.