AoS 2 - Ossiarch Bonereapers Discussion

[Tronhammer NZ]

Summarising the rules and points from the video above.  Points are linked early on.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/19KNiju0wg8Ksx5gUqJgm8p7OXO19JIhI_lESBZInjig/edit?usp=sharing

 

EDIT: Allegiance rules and warscroll battalions are in there. Not going to be doing unit warscrolls though.

Edited October 26, 2019 by Tronhammer NZ

[Overread]

Just a point if you take Nagash he gains the Ossiarch keyword upon joining the army, however you then can't take mercenaries in your army. Same for Mortarch of Sacrament. So yes Nagash can cast the Endless Spells and he is in the book; but he's not a "core" part of the army. It's rather like taking him as a specialist mercenary. 

[Nasnad]

Also no note is that both arkhan and nagash know all the spells from the new spell lore

[Skelebags]

Also, it says every Ossiarch Bonreaper model (which now include Nagash and Arkhan once you add them to the army) get a legion keyword keyword if you pick a legion, unless they already have a legion keyword.
Neither Arkhan nor Nagash have a legion keyword, which means they get the legion bonus of whatever legion you run.

Nagash gets a 2+ save in petrifex.

[pikachoux]

Can I use Ossiarch Bonereapers units in my Nighthaunt and Legion of Nagash army?

If I want to play Arkhan and the morghast I must use the new warscrolls and the new points cost?

[Overread]

Typically alliances are a two way thing. So if Ossiarchs can't take any allies they might not be able to be taken as allies by any other army. However you might have to wait for GW to update Errata documents for other arimes for that detail. As it stands Ossiarchs cannot take ANY allies. However they apparently can take mercenaries (provided you've not chosen to take Mortarch of Sacrament nor Nagash).

 

[AHexInScarletRed]

6 minutes ago, Overread said:

Typically alliances are a two way thing. So if Ossiarchs can't take any allies they might not be able to be taken as allies by any other army. However you might have to wait for GW to update Errata documents for other arimes for that detail. As it stands Ossiarchs cannot take ANY allies. However they apparently can take mercenaries (provided you've not chosen to take Mortarch of Sacrament nor Nagash).

 

I think they're going down a really confusing path with 

.) NH in Legions (2018) 

.) Legion of Grief (2019)

.) Bonereapers which include Nagash and Arkhan (2019). 

I totally cannot foresee what happens to that in the end; will Legions be a thing of the past with Bonereapers being the new Grand Host, Night Haunt going to include LoG-Rules and Vamps becoming their own thing/being scrapped; or will Bonereapers also become a Legion of Bone somewhere down the road, or.. 

A lil' bit salty if I can't include a catapult in my LoB, but thinking about jumping the train full-force come Christmas. 

[Malakithe]

Nagash/Arkhan in the various legions could end up being bonkers.

Im not happy with those crazy points costs. Morghast actually went up which is absurd as they were always terrible to begin with. They didnt even change their warscrolls. And the battleline is way too much. Heres hoping GW drops points in the next GHB

[Overread]

I can foresee GW adding one more big army release to Death which would take the form of a Vampire focused army. Splitting the vampire models out of Legions (just like they did for the other death armies) as well as removing a few old finecast options and adding some new models. The big question would be what kind(s) of vampire army GW would do. 

Vampires are a given, but they might have mortal followers; undead zombies or undead skeletons. Or a mix of several or all of those. With Skeletons in particular, if they are not included, going on to form their own Death army at some point in the future. Ossiarchs are brand new, but their nature means that GW still has the door wide open for a traditional skeleton army. 

[Overread]

2 minutes ago, Malakithe said:

Nagash/Arkhan in the various legions could end up being bonkers.

Im not happy with those crazy points costs. Morghast actually went up which is absurd as they were always terrible to begin with. They didnt even change their warscrolls. And the battleline is way too much. Heres hoping GW drops points in the next GHB

The only reason I dislike the high points is because it cuts down on models on the tabletop; however when you consider their armour saves; their general rebuild and repair spells and such - then its no shock that they are as highly priced as they are. They are the kind of army that doesn't put many models down but gets the most out of every single one and will make the enemy work hard to kill each one. 

 

I can actually see Ossiarchs being an army to generate quite a lot of chat on how to play them as playing them bad is likely to result in very quick losses either being overrun; flanked or objective beaten.

[El Syf]

8 minutes ago, Malakithe said:

Nagash/Arkhan in the various legions could end up being bonkers.

Im not happy with those crazy points costs. Morghast actually went up which is absurd as they were always terrible to begin with. They didnt even change their warscrolls. And the battleline is way too much. Heres hoping GW drops points in the next GHB

They are goodish in grand host.

[Skelebags]

Looking at the Crawler, it says don't use the attack sequence for *an* attack made with the two special ammo types.
Am I right in interpreting that as meaning if you give the crawler +1 attack with the Endless Duty command ability (it says you can use it in your shooting phase and it doesn't call out melee weapons) you would basically just do the special shot twice? 

[Sception]

I agree with those saying the points feel too high.  Especially disappointed on the morghasts.  Not overly put out by it, though.

[Malakithe]

2 minutes ago, Sception said:

I agree with those saying the points feel too high.  Especially disappointed on the morghasts.  Not overly put out by it, though.

Yeah they are high but after reading how many heal/return guys the warscrolls have it makes sense.

I really wanted Morghast to not continue to suck but here we are. The new bone chicken at 200pts is cheaper, hits harder, and has better abilities. Guess ill be going with that.

4 minutes ago, Skelebags said:

Looking at the Crawler, it says don't use the attack sequence for *an* attack made with the two special ammo types.
Am I right in interpreting that as meaning if you give the crawler +1 attack with the Endless Duty command ability (it says you can use it in your shooting phase and it doesn't call out melee weapons) you would basically just do the special shot twice? 

Huh...not sure about that interaction. At the very least you can add an attack to the op 5dmg attack lol

[Sartxac]

Will Arkhan and Morghasts take this augment of cost in LN? 360p for Arkhan is expensive.

[Panzer]

I'm actually happy they cost a lot. That way I can take one big battleline unit, add some of the more fancy units and be done with a whole army. ^^

[tea_wild_owl]

I like the fact that there are tons of strategies

how about an eternal wave of exploding skeletons?: put a harvester next to a 40 model crematorian mortek guard, every slain model explodes on a 5+, will be returned on a 4+ (by the harvester). RAW when 2 harvester are next to the slain model, you would roll 1 dice for each, meaning statistically you get it back (or even revive 2 models for 1 slain model if you're lucky) 😁

[Malakithe]

So far im thinking Kavalos, 2xBoneshapers, Soulmason for my hero choices. 

Kavalos for his CA, 2xBoneshapers for healing/magic, and Soulmason for more magic. Maaaaybe Arkhan if he can be included in a sub-legion

[Emissary]

So for everyone who was worried about Vokmortian being too easy to kill, if the Immortis Guard are within 3" of him, they'll take any mortal wound or wound allocated to him (or any other character) on a 2+.  If you take the battalion that's 2 units of Immortis Guard and 1 Morghast Archai, the Archai get that ability and any roll of a 5+ just negates the wound.

[Malakithe]

1 minute ago, Emissary said:

So for everyone who was worried about Vokmortian being too easy to kill, if the Immortis Guard are within 3" of him, they'll take any mortal wound or wound allocated to him (or any other character) on a 2+.  If you take the battalion that's 2 units of Immortis Guard and 1 Morghast Archai, the Archai get that ability and any roll of a 5+ just negates the wound.

So 500+ points investment to keep him alive so he can use his very niche abilities maybe once a game? 

[chosen_of_khaine]

Am I missing something, or are Immortis Guard terrible? Less tanky than blade-parry Stalkers, WAY less killy than precision stalkers. They get the wound passing off, but unless your opponent has a ton of shooting, heroes can be protected by effective screening.

Which is a shame, because they look much better than Stalkers, IMO.

Edited October 26, 2019 by chosen_of_khaine

[Skelebags]

10 minutes ago, chosen_of_khaine said:

Am I missing something, or are Immortis Guard terrible? Less tanky than blade-parry Stalkers, WAY less killy than precision stalkers. They get the wound passing off, but unless your opponent has a ton of shooting, heroes can be protected by effective screening.

Which is a shame, because they look much better than Stalkers, IMO.

They tank wounds and mortal wounds, so they can save you from MW heavy armies, too
I think their usefulness depends very much on matchup. There will be armies they really shine against whereas stalkers are pretty much always good but I think the guard will definitely have their uses.

 

EDIT: Their command ability can also be really clutch for denying your opponent better pile-ins or making sure you can wrap an enemy unit.

Edited October 26, 2019 by Skelebags

[Nasnad]

I could see a use for a unit of them to protect a couple of the support characters.

[Emissary]

21 minutes ago, tea_wild_owl said:

I like the fact that there are tons of strategies

how about an eternal wave of exploding skeletons?: put a harvester next to a 40 model crematorian mortek guard, every slain model explodes on a 5+, will be returned on a 4+ (by the harvester). RAW when 2 harvester are next to the slain model, you would roll 1 dice for each, meaning statistically you get it back (or even revive 2 models for 1 slain model if you're lucky) 😁

He only brings models killed within 3" and all models in units 3" away.  So once the models beyond 3" of him in that 40 man unit start dying he can't help.

 

17 minutes ago, chosen_of_khaine said:

Am I missing something, or are Immortis Guard terrible? Less tanky than blade-parry Stalkers, WAY less killy than precision stalkers. They get the wound passing off, but unless your opponent has a ton of shooting, heroes can be protected by effective screening.

Which is a shame, because they look much better than Stalkers, IMO.

I don't think they're that bad.  Few things for them:
1) Having 2 different melee weapons will help with the Endless duty command ability on Katakros and the mounted lords.  with that ability they'll go from 2 attacks with the halberd and 2 with the shield to 3 with each.  Plus the extra attacks can help getting a few more mortal wounds.

2) They're a weird middle ground between the 2 good stances of the Stalkers a 3+ save is very similar to a rerollable 4+ (or 2+ compared to a 3+) and having 2 damage 2 attacks and 2 damage 1 attacks is similar to the weapons.  The halberds can also do mortal wounds on a 6 to hit which isn't to be discounted.  The stalkers can do either defense or offense better (haven't done the math yet but can't be both at the same time), but the stalkers won't get the buff to defense against anything striking first and on their turn and won't be as good in offense and defense in the same turn.  The stalkers risk being bad at offense or defense each turn and great at the other while the guard are very good at both.

3) The command ability looks bad at first until you realize that with all the bonuses to hit the army has it can still do some damage.  It's not a great command ability, but being able to boost your shield attacks from 2-3 to 4-6 hitting on 2s and wounding on 3s (no rend and 1 damage) can help against some hordes.

 

I'm not saying they're better than stalkers, have to get that out on the table.  But at the moment I don't think they're terrible and absolutely have their place.

Edited October 26, 2019 by Emissary

[Emissary]

Also, I can't believe the cost of those endless spells.  20 for the bird??  30 for the column??  Talk about auto-includes.