AoS 2 - Ossiarch Bonereapers Discussion

[Major]

14 minutes ago, Rarity Nouveau said:

Stalkers are the swords

Which may well be the intent behind them but darn it if I can see how they are much good compared to Arkai who can easily be at rend - 3, 3 damage off 4 attacks with halberds or 6 attacks at rend -2, 2 damage with swords. I know they can reroll failed hits which is great or even wound rolls but I just dunno.

[Rarity Nouveau]

Just now, Major said:

Which may well be the intent behind them but darn it if I can see how they are much good compared to Arkai who can easily be at rend - 3, 3 damage off 4 attacks with halberds or 6 attacks at rend -2, 2 damage with swords. I know they can reroll failed hits which is great or even wound rolls but I just dunno.

I was more talking about how you were confusing the two and mentioning what seemed like the Guard's rules. 

[Major]

3 minutes ago, Rarity Nouveau said:

I was more talking about how you were confusing the two and mentioning what seemed like the Guard's rules. 

Ah apologies friend!

[Rarity Nouveau]

16 minutes ago, Major said:

Which may well be the intent behind them but darn it if I can see how they are much good compared to Arkai who can easily be at rend - 3, 3 damage off 4 attacks with halberds or 6 attacks at rend -2, 2 damage with swords. I know they can reroll failed hits which is great or even wound rolls but I just dunno.

Okay so the Stalkers have 5 attacks EACH, 3+ 3+ -1 1D that can be -2 2D from their aspect. They're also 200 for a squad of 3 whereas Morghasts are 210 for 2. And that's not getting into different things with the legions.

[Major]

6 minutes ago, Rarity Nouveau said:

Okay so the Stalkers have 5 attacks EACH, 3+ 3+ -1 1D that can be -2 2D from their aspect. They're also 200 for a squad of 3 whereas Morghasts are 210 for 2. And that's not getting into different things with the legions.

This is true. AND you can make it 6 attacks each fairly easily using Katakros and increase rend yet again with Petrifex ELite so it would be rend -3 2D... I guess that is 18 attacks vs up to 8 with morghast. Both have the same wounds in a unit (arkai 6 each vs Stalkers 4 each)...

You could be bringing me around. Keep talking! lol

[XReN]

5 hours ago, Goldy751 said:

Hey guys want to hear a joke?

 

 

vokmortian

That was enough as is

[Glaurung]

Katakros only gives +1 save to his legion, even with prime alive. Don’t try to read the rules as you wish they were, and not as they are...

 

this is is worth an FAQ

[Mohawk_Monkey]

10 hours ago, Emissary said:

I think the army looks good overall.  One thought would be to drop the boneshaper and shrieker for a soulreaper and the predator.  Yes the soulreaper is worse, but the predator is a something else helpful to your army (damage) while the shriekers +1 to hit is already there on the helm artifact.  The soul reaper isn't terrible with the 3+ save, especially if you give him the other artifact and/or make him the general.  

To be fair the soul reapers ability when paired with Arkhan's command ability is 3 units within 9" which feels a little better and the scythe is 2" so he could comfortably sit behind 2 ranks of mortek on 25mm and still fight. The rest of the army probably has enough regen to not miss his 3 wounds/models that much either. i'll likely give it a go as i'll get the endless spells regardless and 1 more hero option is nice (tried to fit a mortisan trident in but it means more morteks and it starts getting more expensive for starting army, will probably go that way though so soul reaper is on my buy list).

Cheers

[Scurvydog]

I guess a case for the soul reaper, however feeble it might be, is if you absolutely want to run Katakros in his own legion and you are forced to pick someone to use the rend -3 weapons. Can't imagine anyone using a Liege kavalos when using Katakros, so who else would be using the -3 rend weapon... well it's still super bad I guess and pointless when rolling mortal wounds. 

Why are the Praetorians so darn bad... 

3 hours ago, Major said:

Which may well be the intent behind them but darn it if I can see how they are much good compared to Arkai who can easily be at rend - 3, 3 damage off 4 attacks with halberds or 6 attacks at rend -2, 2 damage with swords. I know they can reroll failed hits which is great or even wound rolls but I just dunno.

As stalkers can just choose to get 1 more rend and damage, this brings them much higher in direct output. against a 4+ save stalkers dish out an average of 11.11 damage, while morghasts with halberds dish out 6.67 damage.

Even with +1 attack that ends up being 13.3 vs 8.9. In just about all situations  Stalkers will dish out more damage by around 30%, they can also be more flexible and sacrifice some damage to reroll saves in a pinch, which can make all the difference from holding or losing an objective or reroll hits against a super slippery loonboss. Stalkers can also reroll charges with they command ability but they are slower than morghasts so I will say that closes the gap on that front.

Morghasts do have -1 bravery aura (yay...) and either a mortal wound shrug or 3d6 charge, which is nice and also using halberds (never use swords) they have 2" reach, which you can do more tricks with, like having them fight behind some mortek guards for example.

I wouldn't follow the trend of saying Stalkers are plain better all the time, they are entirely carried by the +1 rend and damage stance most of the time, as in average the others will deal less damage than stalkers and even the immortis guards.

[Blitzd]

16 hours ago, Sception said:

If you're worried about competitiveness, you're often talking about tournament & other time-limited formats.  Having to roll the greatsword attacks separately adds up, for an extremely marginal benefit - your own numbers show you need to roll 36 attacks to average even one more wound than swords, and the max number of greatsword attacks a unit can even make in a combat round before buffs is 8.  Just not worth the bother, especially not with enhance nadirite being a popular buff.

Use a different coloured dice and roll together

[GeneralZero]

1 hour ago, Scurvydog said:

they have 2" reach, which you can do more tricks with, like having them fight behind some mortek guards for example.

Something bother me: imagine that the Morghast are behind the guards.

The guards do an OK charge. Th morghast behind them do an OK charge behind the same unit: do they have to finish their charge within 1"? If yes, then they can't fight behind the guards in a distance, lets say, of 1.5" to 2"? This is tricky.

[Scurvydog]

2 minutes ago, GeneralZero said:

Something bother me: imagine that the Morghast are behind the guards.

The guards do an OK charge. Th morghast behind them do an OK charge behind the same unit: do they have to finish their charge within 1"? If yes, then they can't fight behind the guards in a distance, lets say, of 1.5" to 2"? This is tricky.

If charging they have to end up within 0,5" yes, in that case it just gives them some placement options, but placing them behind some mortek can protect them from charges and allow them to pile in and attack if the guards are attacked, which is a great strategy when in a defensive position. If they are not engaged, they can always fly over the guards in your own turn to counter attack. These are tactical options only available to the Morghasts in this army and can be really effective.

[Dracan]

Quick question regarding dethriders ability 

 

You can use this command ability when a friendly KAVALOS DEATHRIDERS unit that includes a Mortek Hekatos finishes a charge
move. You can pick 1 enemy unit within 1" of that KAVALOS DEATHRIDERS unit and roll a
number of dice equal to the number of models in that KAVALOS DEATHRIDERS unit. For each
5+, the enemy unit suffers 1 mortal wound. In addition, in the following combat phase, that KAVALOS DEATHRIDERS unit can move an
extra 3" when it piles in.

 

do you guys think this is stackable?

ie.  I use 4 cp and do 4x models mw on 5+ and then they are able to pile in 15" ??

charge chaff 10" away blow them up with mortal wounds pile into something other side of table???

[XReN]

9 minutes ago, Dracan said:

Quick question regarding dethriders ability 

 

You can use this command ability when a friendly KAVALOS DEATHRIDERS unit that includes a Mortek Hekatos finishes a charge
move. You can pick 1 enemy unit within 1" of that KAVALOS DEATHRIDERS unit and roll a
number of dice equal to the number of models in that KAVALOS DEATHRIDERS unit. For each
5+, the enemy unit suffers 1 mortal wound. In addition, in the following combat phase, that KAVALOS DEATHRIDERS unit can move an
extra 3" when it piles in.

 

do you guys think this is stackable?

ie.  I use 4 cp and do 4x models mw on 5+ and then they are able to pile in 15" ??

charge chaff 10" away blow them up with mortal wounds pile into something other side of table???

Yes, it seems stackable

[Sception]

currently yes.  I can't imagine it will survive faq.

[Overread]

The unit likely cannot benefit from the extra charge ranged since the value given is a fixed value not a cumulative one. That's one rule that I'm fairly sure will be FAQ/Errata fixed to not stack. 

[jeremimi]

hi guys!

 

New to the forum

 

I was thinking of the following (did not see any list yet based around kavalos):

 

Leaders:

Liege Kavalos - 200

Mortisans Soulmason - 140

 

Battleline:

Kavalos Deathriders (15) - 480

Kavalos Deathriders (10) - 360

Mortek Guard (20) - 260

 

Behemots

Gothizzard Harvester - 200

Mortek Crawler - 200

 

Battalions

Kavalos Lance - 120

 

Total: 1960

Pose: 6

 

I am thinking of running Stalliarch Lords for the run and charge. The crawler in the back with the Mortisans and Mortek Guard. Everything else rush to the enemy. I could also do 2 x Gothizzard ( in this case I would drop the mortek guard for another unit of Kavalos)  or 2 x Crawler.

 

What do you think?

[Sleboda]

12 hours ago, Major said:

It is quite easy to have a unit of Morghast Arkai on a 2+ save with a 5+ or 6+ deathless save and thier native 5+ save vs mortals, with 4 attacks instead of 3, hitting on 3,s and rerolling failed hits of 1, at rend -3, 3 damage. That is a tough unit for 200 odd pts.

I'm sure you realize this, but since it's a line of thought that comes up often across many unit discussions, I'll just point it out anyway -

That's not a 200 odd point unit. That's hundreds of points committed into the unit on top of its cost.

In other words, that's more like a 600 point unit, in a way.

[XReN]

5 minutes ago, Sleboda said:

I'm sure you realize this, but since it's a line of thought that comes up often across many unit discussions, I'll just point it out anyway -

That's not a 200 odd point unit. That's hundreds of points committed into the unit on top of its cost.

In other words, that's more like a 600 point unit, in a way.

Yes, this is what people need to learn

The example features taking 340 points worth of heroes, as well as another 130 points hero with an artefact to improve death save. 

Also to make morghasts 2+ save you need them to be in cover. Purely assault unit in cover. In Cover. Such things rarely happen and the more models you take (as you should because you commit you heroes to it) the lesser the chances to get cover.

With all that, Stalkers are more fighty than Morghasts whille Immortis are more resilient - both for 10 less points raw. The niche roll for morghasts is to be flying flanking assassins, you would need a very specialised list to make them into shock troops.

[choocheelo]

4 hours ago, XReN said:

 

With all that, Stalkers are more fighty than Morghasts whille Immortis are more resilient - both for 10 less points raw. The niche roll for morghasts is to be flying flanking assassins, you would need a very specialised list to make them into shock troops.

untill your stalkers are not primary target of skaven cannon or something similar

Edited November 6, 2019 by choocheelo

[Amradiel]

I'm thinking that this will be my first list to try. The idea is simple, grind down the opponent 😊 Another thing to try would be to use Stalkers instead of Immortis guard and the carrion spell instead of shrieker.

Allegiance: Ossiarch Bonereapers
- Legion: Petrifex Elite
Arkhan the Black, Mortarch of Sacrament (360)
Liege-Kavalos (200)
- General
- Trait: Mighty Archaeossian
- Artefact: Godbone Armour
Mortisan Boneshaper (130)
20 x Mortek Guard (260)
- Nadirite Blade and Shield
20 x Mortek Guard (260)
- Nadirite Blade and Shield
5 x Kavalos Deathriders (180)
- Nadirite Blade and Shield
5 x Kavalos Deathriders (180)
- Nadirite Blade and Shield
3 x Immortis Guard (200)
Gothizzar Harvester (200)
Bone-tithe Shrieker (30)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 115
 

[XReN]

24 minutes ago, choocheelo said:

untill your stalkers are not primary target of skaven cannon or something similar

Good thing that there is LOS-blocking terrain behind which I can hide my troops where I play

[Mohawk_Monkey]

5 hours ago, jeremimi said:

hi guys!

 

New to the forum

 

I was thinking of the following (did not see any list yet based around kavalos):

 

Leaders:

Liege Kavalos - 200

Mortisans Soulmason - 140

 

Battleline:

Kavalos Deathriders (15) - 480

Kavalos Deathriders (10) - 360

Mortek Guard (20) - 260

 

Behemots

Gothizzard Harvester - 200

Mortek Crawler - 200

 

Battalions

Kavalos Lance - 120

 

Total: 1960

Pose: 6

 

I am thinking of running Stalliarch Lords for the run and charge. The crawler in the back with the Mortisans and Mortek Guard. Everything else rush to the enemy. I could also do 2 x Gothizzard ( in this case I would drop the mortek guard for another unit of Kavalos)  or 2 x Crawler.

 

What do you think?

A good start but you're missing a trick. Right now with your current set up you have a respectable 5 drops and 4 Relentless discipline (+7 chances at additional pts).

 

If you drop the unit of 15 deathriders back down to 10 and change the harvester to another crawler and swap the soulmason for a boneshaper you can get a second warscroll, the mortis ballistari. You then have 70pts to play with after too (good for shrieker and nightmare endless spells). The down side is you cant use the third artifact but you do get 5 RDP and your list becomes a 2 drop list.  Just some ideas but figured it wasnt to disimilar to what youve got.

Edited November 6, 2019 by Mohawk_Monkey
6- rdp down to 5rdp

[Emissary]

10 hours ago, Scurvydog said:

I guess a case for the soul reaper, however feeble it might be, is if you absolutely want to run Katakros in his own legion and you are forced to pick someone to use the rend -3 weapons. Can't imagine anyone using a Liege kavalos when using Katakros, so who else would be using the -3 rend weapon... well it's still super bad I guess and pointless when rolling mortal wounds. 

I'm personally planning on running Katakros and Zandtos together in a Petrifex Elite army.  Katakros can give Zandtos the +1 save with his command ability (since Zandtos is Mortis Praetorians) and Zandtos can use his command ability on Katakros as well (for the same reason).  I think there's something to be said about running lists that can generate 8+ RD points a turn reliably as you can use a lot of the command abilities to buff the up to great levels.  Katakros with his both of his command abilities, -1 rend  and rerolling hits (from Soulmason) and wounds (from Zandtos) would be highly effective.  Same with Zandtos.

Actually, running Zandtos with Katakros may be the only way I'd run him right now over a regular Liege Kavalos.

[Captain Badruk]

17 hours ago, Major said:

That was the question I asked as well. The damage comes from its synergies. You can get units in this army at +1 to hit, +1 attacks, rerolling failed hits, additional rend etc quite easily.

The trick I've found thus far is picking your sub faction and generals well. You can have entire armies on 2+ saves rerolling 1s with additional rend on attacks easy enough. Their strength comes from their ability to outlast an opponent similar to what the lore says while still having heavy hitting elite units.

It is quite easy to have a unit of Morghast Arkai on a 2+ save with a 5+ or 6+ deathless save and thier native 5+ save vs mortals, with 4 attacks instead of 3, hitting on 3,s and rerolling failed hits of 1, at rend -3, 3 damage. That is a tough unit for 200 odd pts.

How can you get the arkhai to a 2+ save?