The Rumour Thread

[SunStorm]

Did any of the AoS rumour mongers mention any new 30k stuff? There seems to be some new possible plastics shown in potato cam shots (30k Reddit)

 

 

[Reinholt]

3 hours ago, Chikout said:

I live in Japan. It's virtually impossible to find space for a 6 by 4 table in most houses. Most people don't have garages or even gardens. You could probably say the same for anyone who lives in a big city and isn't extremely rich.  A game that is designed to be playable on a dining table is a change that may cause short term pain for some people but is far better in the long term. 

As for the points changes I think as AoS has gone along there has been a definite decrease in points and increase in army size. If the points do all go up it will be a much needed reset which will make  the game  more affordable, less time consuming to paint, and hopefully faster to play. 

I lived in Singapore for a bit and now live in NYC and want to echo this.

6'x4' tables are a fun idea for gaming, but the reality of that becoming non-viable for a huge segment of the population (as by humans, by which I mean potential customers, they are also broadly more concentrated in large cities) is not a good business strategy.

Part of the genius of X-Wing, to pick another miniature game, was the space required to play. Keeping things to a scale you could fit realistically on a square dining table is an exceptional decision from a sales / marketing / accessibility perspective. It's the same reason I think the pathway of skirmish -> full scale battle is still a pipeline more companies need to get right.

Most businesses that do well in the long run don't get there by making it harder for you to engage with their products, after all. And since I love miniature games and I want GW to do well, anything that does improve access for customers (old and new) is a plus in my view.

Edit: by which I mean AoS 3 shrinking the table a bit and creating more viability for armies of a few large models vs. total hordes is something I fully and completely support.

Edited June 12, 2021 by Reinholt

[whispersofblood]

1 hour ago, Scurvydog said:

I stand by this army is the one standing to be left behind the most with the new edition if nothing major changes. Their endless spell mechanic with soulbound spells is basically the new mechanic for endless spells, however they got -1 to all casts with an endless spell on the board, that rule will be absolutely silly if they still get -1, so it should see major changes or be removed all together.

Their other unique mechanic is not worse in itself, but it is worse in relation to what everyone else are getting. With more command points and strong command abilities, by staying the same as before, OBR will be weaker overall in comparison. Imagine their catapults now when everyone gets easy access to +1 save in the shooting phase...

Also their abilities are still technically commands, so would also need to be FAQd if they can use the same more times, imagine if that is not addressed and only 1 mortek guard unit can use shield wall? Or 1 unit can use the +3" move? 

The new edition has raised a lot of questions and a lot of new stuff, most which concerns rules of stuff OBR does not have or in relation makes what they got much worse. The army needs some good FAQs to be playable, but of course GW is on top of that, they would never mess up something like that surely

If OBR were released with Relentless Discipline after 3.0. most people would think wow that is a really cool alternative C&C methodology with some fluffy trade-offs.

RD can be quite oppressive, and OBR generate many more points than most armies generate CP.

It also lets them interact with a couple of the battalions different. Like the ones that give bonus artefacts or lower drops are way more valuable than the CMD ability focused ones which is cool and how all armies should interact with the core rules. I would think OBR players would be looking forward to accessing some of their really good artefacts.

 

[SunStorm]

Are the FW or GW webstores showing the queue splash page for anyone else now?

[Clan's Cynic]

Well one positive of the 30k leak is that a lot of 40k players who might've been looking into AoS might now save their money for this, meaning there'll be more chance of grabbing a Dominion box.

[King Under the Mountain]

2 minutes ago, SunStorm said:

Are the FW or GW webstores showing the queue splash page for anyone else now?

Just checked and yes i'm in a queue page too. 

[Clan's Cynic]

3 minutes ago, SunStorm said:

Are the FW or GW webstores showing the queue splash page for anyone else now?

Horus Heresy not being dead probably caused a rush for people who'd held off on continuing projects/getting into it to storm the website in preparation for this coming out.

I'd be shocked if everything 30k/Imperial on Forge World's site isn't OOS for half a year from now.

[SunStorm]

1 minute ago, Clan's Cynic said:

Horus Heresy not being dead probably caused a rush for people who'd held off on continuing projects/getting into it to storm the website in preparation for this coming out.

I'd be shocked if everything 30k/Imperial on Forge World's site isn't OOS for half a year from now.

It's just let me on, cannot see anything different, but like you say those leaks will have every 30k and a lot of 40k players thinking about kick starting new or existing armies

[rogue_michael]

The queue was in effect around 10am local time in the UK this morning. Think it's either a trial run of the system ahead of Dominion, or it's cos of the limited editions of the 40K books.

I reckon they're gating the overall traffic on the site much, much lower than normal, so it's not necessarily that there's more people on the site than on a normal Saturday, just more than they want to let on right now for one of the above reasons.

[DinoJon]

Can't verify but sounds about right

[Dreddships]

The supposed 'plastic HH' and moving of 40k kits into Heresy has some implication for AOS and Old World.

Granted - it's only rumours I've seen so far of the older 40k kits (Mars Pattern Rhinos and non-primaris Marines etc.) and nothing entirely clear whether it will be purely rules or a complete move, but interesting implications for us.

Granted - judging from Total War and CA's comments - Old World might have FW and GW bring those older kits up to date w/ additions such as Kislev, Cathay etc.

Still, hope HH 'in plastic' has some precendant for GW to fix FW prices and roll them into the single umbrella - with a hope that we update those kits in plastic like Legion of Azgorh. 

Judging with what seems GW's gutting of the FW team - Sugden in WarCom, designers moved to Specialist Games or main games - it just might be...

[Dreddships]

6 minutes ago, DinoJon said:

Can't verify but sounds about right

Bestigors, Gors and Ungors are all sold as a 10.

Chaos Warriors - definitely - and Skaven too.

But I'd imagine the min unit sizes would be 'what is the no. in a box?' and go from there.

But everything else lines up.

The recent battletomes did feel awkwardly overcosted too

[Ogregut]

Really like the new arcane bolt. Cast and save it until the start of the battleshock phase to knock of an extra wound or finish off a model with one wound left. 

Really nice for slannesh as well, throw it on a unit that wasn't touched during the turn and grab a summoning point. 

The more I see about 3rd Ed the more I like. 

Edited June 12, 2021 by Ogregut
Typo

[Neverchosen]

New Article about command abilities, I feel we have heard about most of these already (although I don't recognize re-deploy) but I really love the illustration:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/06/12/theres-no-more-pesky-downtime-in-the-new-edition-thanks-to-these-command-abilities/

Edited June 12, 2021 by Neverchosen

[SunStorm]

52 minutes ago, Dreddships said:

The supposed 'plastic HH' and moving of 40k kits into Heresy has some implication for AOS and Old World.

Granted - it's only rumours I've seen so far of the older 40k kits (Mars Pattern Rhinos and non-primaris Marines etc.) and nothing entirely clear whether it will be purely rules or a complete move, but interesting implications for us.

Granted - judging from Total War and CA's comments - Old World might have FW and GW bring those older kits up to date w/ additions such as Kislev, Cathay etc.

Still, hope HH 'in plastic' has some precendant for GW to fix FW prices and roll them into the single umbrella - with a hope that we update those kits in plastic like Legion of Azgorh. 

Judging with what seems GW's gutting of the FW team - Sugden in WarCom, designers moved to Specialist Games or main games - it just might be...

I was wondering if any of the rumour mongers that had mentioned the future of AoS also called a new plastic box set? if so could mean more weight could be put on their AoS rumours. 

[Scurvydog]

Imagine your one chance to get into combat with that KO Ironclad, all positioning is done perfectly to get within 5", nice charge range and then it simply goes "aight imma head out" and flies away 6". Enjoy your 11" charge range now, which will of course fail and you get shot again  

Honestly I worry a lot more about redeploy than unleash hell, there does not seem to be any efficient counterplay to that. Even if you end up just outside 3" after a move you can still risk up to a 9" charge. I can see how that will create all sorts of problems for melee armies, getting shot at one place and simply failing the charge another place. Being a shooting army seems to be the only way to really ensure any damage.

[Icarion]

Just now, Scurvydog said:

Imagine your one chance to get into combat with that KO Ironclad, all positioning is done perfectly to get within 5", nice charge range and then it simply goes "aight imma head out" and flies away 6". Enjoy your 11" charge range now, which will of course fail and you get shot again  

Honestly I worry a lot more about redeploy than unleash hell, there does not seem to be any efficient counterplay to that. Even if you end up just outside 3" after a move you can still risk up to a 9" charge. I can see how that will create all sorts of problems for melee armies, getting shot at one place and simply failing the charge another place. Being a shooting army seems to be the only way to really ensure any damage.

Both unleash hell, and redeploy can only be used if an enemy unit is within 9" so (like the article mentions) there is now a big tactical decision about whether you want to get danger close for your charge, and risk the enemy redeploying or shooting you, or you hold back distance.

I love this! anything that adds new layers of tactical choices makes the game richer in my book.

[Grimrock]

2 minutes ago, Scurvydog said:

Imagine your one chance to get into combat with that KO Ironclad, all positioning is done perfectly to get within 5", nice charge range and then it simply goes "aight imma head out" and flies away 6". Enjoy your 11" charge range now, which will of course fail and you get shot again  

Honestly I worry a lot more about redeploy than unleash hell, there does not seem to be any efficient counterplay to that. Even if you end up just outside 3" after a move you can still risk up to a 9" charge. I can see how that will create all sorts of problems for melee armies, getting shot at one place and simply failing the charge another place. Being a shooting army seems to be the only way to really ensure any damage.

I think the biggest balance point is they have to concede territory to do that. Sure they get away and you don't get to charge, but they're also sacrificing the objective to you and that's how you win the game. There's a very good chance that a primarily ranged army is going to end most games with a wholly disproportionate number of models left on the table, but simultaneously lose most of the time because they couldn't take and hold objectives. I mean, it's going to feel pretty bad for the melee armies just flailing around and barely holding onto objectives all game, but in the end they'll probably win so... maybe it's ok I guess?

[Icarion]

1 minute ago, Grimrock said:

I think the biggest balance point is they have to concede territory to do that. Sure they get away and you don't get to charge, but they're also sacrificing the objective to you and that's how you win the game. There's a very good chance that a primarily ranged army is going to end most games with a wholly disproportionate number of models left on the table, but simultaneously lose most of the time because they couldn't take and hold objectives. I mean, it's going to feel pretty bad for the melee armies just flailing around and barely holding onto objectives all game, but in the end they'll probably win so... maybe it's ok I guess?

Or the enemy can be tactical with their charge distances and stay 9.5" away, thereby deny the shooting army a chance to unleash hell or redeploy. 

Kinda hard to argue this will lead to feel bad moments, when you have a pretty clear tactical incentive for both getting close, or staying back. 

[Ogregut]

5 minutes ago, Athrawes said:

Both unleash hell, and redeploy can only be used if an enemy unit is within 9" so (like the article mentions) there is now a big tactical decision about whether you want to get danger close for your charge, and risk the enemy redeploying or shooting you, or you hold back distance.

I love this! anything that adds new layers of tactical choices makes the game richer in my book.

This!! 

Always bugged me when units walk up to the enemy and stand 3" away until ready to charge. 

[Beliman]

27 minutes ago, Scurvydog said:

Imagine your one chance to get into combat with that KO Ironclad, all positioning is done perfectly to get within 5", nice charge range and then it simply goes "aight imma head out" and flies away 6". Enjoy your 11" charge range now, which will of course fail and you get shot again  

...or He/she could fail their roll with just 1" and waste 1CP that could be used for +1save. And then, you spend 1 CP for an All Out Attack!! OUCH!!!

Decisions, decisions!!!

Edited June 12, 2021 by Beliman

[Grimrock]

31 minutes ago, Athrawes said:

Or the enemy can be tactical with their charge distances and stay 9.5" away, thereby deny the shooting army a chance to unleash hell or redeploy. 

Kinda hard to argue this will lead to feel bad moments, when you have a pretty clear tactical incentive for both getting close, or staying back. 

You have incentive to stay back sure, but odds of making a 9"charge are about 30%, and even with a cp reroll (assuming it still exists?) odds are still dicey. If your army primarily does their damage in melee then staying 9.5" back means you do absolutely nothing more than half the time. So you have the choice of probably doing nothing, or moving closer and probably doing nothing. Doesn't sound like a feels good moment to me.

Edited June 12, 2021 by Grimrock

[Marcvs]

30 minutes ago, Athrawes said:

Or the enemy can be tactical with their charge distances and stay 9.5" away, thereby deny the shooting army a chance to unleash hell or redeploy. 

Kinda hard to argue this will lead to feel bad moments, when you have a pretty clear tactical incentive for both getting close, or staying back. 

the problem with that is that a 9" charge is 50% chance of success after reroll, so not a great option either. again, the impression is that melee soaks up most of the uncertainty

[Scurvydog]

32 minutes ago, Athrawes said:

Or the enemy can be tactical with their charge distances and stay 9.5" away, thereby deny the shooting army a chance to unleash hell or redeploy. 

Kinda hard to argue this will lead to feel bad moments, when you have a pretty clear tactical incentive for both getting close, or staying back. 

That is not how unleash hell works. The command is issued after the enemy unit finishes a charge. Then the unit that receives the command just needs to be within 9" of that enemy unit and more than 3" from other enemies. 

The only way this can not be used is if that ranged unit is already engaged somehow. This is why this command is so dangerous, the only counterplay is to get that range unit charged somehow by either chaff or something sturdy first, but that might not be possible with ranged units sitting just behind an anvil.

[Icarion]

3 minutes ago, Grimrock said:

You have incentive to stay back sure, but odds of making a 9"charge are about 30%, and even with a cp reroll (assuming it still exists?) odds are still dicey. If your army primarily does their damage in melee then staying 9.5" back means you do absolutely nothing more than half the time. So you have the choice of probably doing nothing, or moving closer and probably doing nothing. Doesn't sound like a feels good moment to me.

You're exaggerating. If your are 3" away from an enemy unit, the odds of them moving back 6" are 1 in 6, meaning at WORST you end up in the same spot as if you held back 9.5"

Youre complaint seems to boil down to 

"I want everything I do to be successful or it leads to feeling bad"

And that doesn't sound like a good way to design a tactical wargame.