The Rumour Thread

[novakai]

2 hours ago, Aleser said:

That is so true, over the years community accepted mixed races in CoS but at the start everyone didnt like that

I think people who both play and understand game design would have felt that the range was both too bloated and  had too much options and balancing problems if it continue that trajectory though. Often the mixing was just cherry picking the best options in cities and try to use a very large and unfair toolbox to win your games

there was no universal acceptance of anything because sometimes it look like it was just a temporary fix and not a long term solution. 

[novakai]

3 hours ago, Goatforce said:

Well we know that full army releases are a month or 2 after the army box, so November for the full army isn't too suprising, if September is the box. Maybe FEC will be sandwiched between the box and full army release? Or perhaps the CoS release is early November and FEC is later? In which case November will be a busy AoS month!

FEC is not likely comming out until winter (usually for GW it means next year January at the earliest) because that where they put the mystery battletome on the roadmap.

[The Lost Sigmarite]

Haven't seen the full picture on the CoS points, how much is the army set points wise ? And are the units inside a good basis for a 1000 pts Cities list ?

Edit : 520 pts, not bad. I just wished you had a Castellite formation inside... I hope this batallion is the basis for the future vanguard box.

Edited August 5, 2023 by The Lost Sigmarite

[novakai]

1 hour ago, Chikout said:

I get the anxiety over old models leaving and I'm not sure that the cities range is fully settled yet but the message has come loud and clear for the last year that people want the cities to continue to be a melting pot. A good example is Anvilgard. The in lore change to that city would have been a perfect opportunity to cut the dark Aelf range if gw really wanted a human only army. 

The Duardin are doing double duty in AoS and the old world. That would be another perfect excuse to cut them from the range. They could have put out a human only book with 23 warscrolls which is still more than many other battletomes. 

Instead they kept a mix of all three races and even added rules for Misthavn to replace Anvilgard. I suspect that the high elves and wanderers got cut not because gw wanted to make cities human only but rather that wanderers are getting reimagined as Kurnothi and phoenix guard are getting reimagined as the Tyrion half of Lumineth. 

So to sum up. Could we see the current dark Aelf kits go away some time - yes. 

Will Cities ever be a human only faction -no. 

I mean nothing really suggest that the case really, regular humans needed to have their dedicated army and old model will either retire or go into Old world. It could even be that Freeguild just eventually become their own seperate thing too.

like GW have done thing their own way without caring about the community I don’t thing CoS diversity screaming is anything different from the YouTube video debacle, squating mini marine, separating HH kits from, squating older fantasy kits, separating old world from AoS, or other common examples.

you can have a rosy tinted glasses on their action (maybe people have too much of this in TGa) but you can also see they do things and rarely back down from it.

[KingBrodd]

For me personally I hope COS Dark Aelves and DOK get put into Malerions Faction. Not everyone agrees I know but it makes sense rather than 2 Grimdark Aelven Factions.

I also want it because I CANNOT WAIT TO SEE WHAT GW DOES WITH MODERN DARK AELVES. SHADOW DAEMONS, MONSTERS, MIST.

[Azamar]

56 minutes ago, Chikout said:

As to those to say that Duardin are terrible, you can put them in Misthavn to give them more mobility. Hammerers  have  perhaps the best  melee profile of any infantry unit in the game. Without too much difficulty you can get them to hitting on 2 with 6 auto wounding,  wounding on 3, rend -4 damage 2 with strike first. That only takes two buff pieces. If you’re willing to settle for rend 3 you only need the warden king as a buff piece who they handily give a 4+ ward save to. That’s not bad. 

I fully agree, and think most lists could make use of a warden king and a unit of hammerers at least, but where does the strike first come from? 
 

 

[Beliman]

7 minutes ago, Azamar said:

I fully agree, and think most lists could make use of a warden king and a unit of hammerers at least, but where does the strike first come from? 

The only thing that I could find is a Warden King with Of Mighty Lineage if he is engaged with an enemy Hero. Then he can activate Fearless leader to make another unit to attack after him. With a Counter-Charge order, you can even give -3 rend to your Hammerers after a Mammoth, Gnashtoof, Mawcrusha or any other Hero charged your Warden King.

[The Lost Sigmarite]

I think I'm going to orient myself towards a Castelite formation battalion for my army/buying list, because Cities shooting does look stronk and it's flavourful. I feel like this is going to be very cost effective if taken with Greywater. Rules wise and colour wise these 2 ar my favourites with Lethis, but I do feel I'm going to make a homebrew city so I'm not forced to only play a single subfaction. 

[Captaniser]

48 minutes ago, KingBrodd said:

For me personally I hope COS Dark Aelves and DOK get put into Malerions Faction. Not everyone agrees I know but it makes sense rather than 2 Grimdark Aelven Factions.

I also want it because I CANNOT WAIT TO SEE WHAT GW DOES WITH MODERN DARK AELVES. SHADOW DAEMONS, MONSTERS, MIST.

I am going to guess that the DoK will remain an independent faction, while the remaining dark elves in the Cities will be removed when Malerions faction emerges with spiritual successors to those units.

[Ejecutor]

This is a slow process so everyone is used to it and they don't get everyone mad around the same time.

Remove a bit, some users would freak out and leave, but they would be covered with the release of ToW. Then those that doubted would prolly buy some new stuff so WHEN (and I say when not if) dark elves and dwarvens are removed those users would be fully covered as well by their new AoS replacement faction plus those users would prolly buy the second CoS wave because they already bought some new CoS stuff.

It is a case of leaving always a bit so you don't fully quit, imo.

[michu]

And if TOW survives long enough, Druchii will surely be moved there too.

[Freemeta]

 so i can't buff Aventis magister of Hammerhal in an Hammerhal army with my Priest prayer Hammer of Sigmar 😅...

[RyantheFett]

41 minutes ago, Ejecutor said:

Remove a bit, some users would freak out and leave, but they would be covered with the release of ToW. Then those that doubted would prolly buy some new stuff so WHEN (and I say when not if) dark elves and dwarvens are removed those users would be fully covered as well by their new AoS replacement faction plus those users would prolly buy the second CoS wave because they already bought some new CoS stuff.

Maybe going too far down the rabbit hole, but GW has given themselves a lot of time and space to fully remove the other races with little worry. The next City wave does not even have to remove non human stuff since they still have the mages and tanks to redo. So we can well be into 4th with 2 Cities books and two waves before they even think of pulling the last two.

That also does not even throw in TOW factor, future order factions, the lore in the book, and the even harsher race restrictions.

Edited August 5, 2023 by RyantheFett

[novakai]

It’s like firstborn, people said they would not remove them but it ended up they where doing it slowly 

of course AoS and ToW are two different  system and teams in the end, what happens in Old world doesn’t have any ties with AoS when talking about AoS.

model for the most part going to toW are gone in AoS at least to the AoS design team because it’s not their product any more.

[Neverchosen]

So there are more pictures of the scenery in the book, are we ever going to see it?

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

18 minutes ago, Neverchosen said:

So there are more pictures of the scenery in the book, are we ever going to see it?

I would guess it might come out with the full release. Or maybe if we are lucky the Dawnbringers books will come with a Streets of Death game mode that simulates urban combat, like 40k Boarding Actions. That would be a good excuse to release more city terrain.

[Neverchosen]

Just now, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

I would guess it might come out with the full release. Or maybe if we are lucky the Dawnbringers books will come with a Streets of Death game mode that simulates urban combat, like 40k Boarding Actions. That would be a good excuse to release more city terrain.

Now if this doesn't happen I will be greatly disappointed!

Just like the idea of listening to this as my Chaos Warriors wreck my friends skeletons in the streets of his Necropolis!

[Ejecutor]

26 minutes ago, Neverchosen said:

So there are more pictures of the scenery in the book, are we ever going to see it?

Checked the whole book again as I didn't look to much on the scenery. Nothing. The pic from the community reveal post is where we can see more pieces of the "new scenery houses". The rest are a mix of warcry ruins, sigmarite mausoleum, dominion of sigmar and the dawnbringer settlement scenery sets.

[Doko]

5 hours ago, Mutton said:

Ironbreakers are a 150 point unit with a 3+ save

if you are counting on the ward4 then ironbreakers cost 230 because they need a dwarf hero to gives them the ward

how is posible 10 wounds with save 3 and 6,6 no rend damage must cost 150 but saurius guard for 180 points have 20 wounds with save 3 and 8,8 rend1 damage

ironbreackers are horrible now that we have lost every buff as +1 atk +1 wounds etc and have stats of 100 points unit.

oh the ward4 is a faction rule,if you want start that direction we can compare to slanesh units with ward5 of his faction

Edited August 5, 2023 by Doko

[bethebee]

8 hours ago, Clan's Cynic said:

I think the most damning sign is that I can't find a piece of new art which includes Duardin or Aelves anywhere, certainly none alongside art of the new Freeguild models.

The presence of non-Dark Elves also seems to have been quietly retconned, with the implication that the only Elves who live in the Cities are all insular, untrustworthy (for an elf) and of questionable character because they're either in with the Covens or Privateers.

I think we all expect the Dark Elves to get the chop whenever Malerion comes around, but the Dispossessed are going to be the wildcard. Interestingly, there is another reference to Grombrindal being out and about as being sent by Grungni. That's not new, but nice to see brought up again. 

 

That's maybe the worst feature of the book to me.  Wanderers being erased from the lore entirely is one thing, the weirdness around Living City and Phoenicium is another, but all elves being evil now is such a bizarre choice to make.  It's strange since half the fluff is written like it's jolly cooperation as usual, while all the dark elf stuff is just "actually this entire species is all duplicitous torturers and are super evil and edgy" which feels like such a leap to make from the first book.

I'm happy dark elf players got to at least eat decently this time around in terms of rules.  I don't have much hope myself but here's to them hopefully hanging around in the future.

As a bonus: the only Wanderer mention I could find anywhere.  It's just listed as "woman" but try and tell me that isn't a welf.

Edited August 5, 2023 by bethebee

[RyantheFett]

12 minutes ago, bethebee said:

That's maybe the worst feature of the book to me.  Wanderers being erased from the lore entirely is one thing, the weirdness around Living City and Phoenicium is another, but all elves being evil now is such a bizarre choice to make.  It's strange since half the fluff is written like it's jolly cooperation as usual, while all the dark elf stuff is just "actually this entire species is all duplicitous torturers and are super evil and edgy" which feels like such a leap to make from the first book.

I'm happy dark elf players got to at least eat decently this time around in terms of rules.  I don't have much hope myself but here's to them hopefully hanging around in the future.

As a bonus: the only Wanderer mention I could find anywhere.  It's just listed as "woman" but try and tell me that isn't a welf.

Wanderers? Phoenicium? Whats that lol?!?!?

Best guess would be they have to set up the dark elves and dwarfs as future order factions. So while the races can get along they often fight each other. That way they can still be taken as allies, but will kill each other on the table?

The AoS lore is still young so removing non human from city armies won't be too much work. 40k has had bigger retcons and this one does not really break anything.

[Doko]

after study the book i am pretty happy in general(i am usually pretty pesimist as you know)

have some bad and good things.

 

BAD things:

-mixed races are gone,every buff is locked to a race and coalitions are gone also

-internal balance is horrible,per example all the dwarfs are useless(i think i never have seen a warscroll so bad in entire aos as the gyrocopter)but then the hammerers are great,or the basic elfs are horrible but the elite elfs are great,the human artillery,the stellhelms and the ogre are horribles but the cavalry and foot shootings are good

-the battle tactics are horrible and almost imposible to do

-the book could have been named humas of sigmar and not cities because the 99% of the content is only humans

-they have deleted the 90% of buffs,auras,alegiance skills,reliks etc also the sub factions are almost useless and dont give nothing. so it is pretty boring to do list and change things because we havent options.

 

good things:

-the book have pretty potent magic that is great this edition(a sorcerer with +4 casting gonna be great)

-every race have build:

           -dwarfs have a damage bomb with the hammerers(sadly dwarfs got the worst balance and they are useless)

           -humans have two options,use the foot shooters with mortals with 6 or the bomb of cavaliers together the hero on horse to attack first and +1 atk

           -elfs are the winners of the book,the blackguard is the best defensive unit of the book,the executioners are also the best damage unit of the book(better than hammerers),the sorcerer is the best mage of the book,ohhhh and have the best combo of entire book that nobody seems have seen,the pirates for only 90 points buffed with the elf hero and the spell of elfs that make a unit ignore saves dish out 12'5 mortals wounds(ignore save that is as mortals),so a unit of only 270 points(30 pirates) dish out 37 mortals wounds that is insane! also have the combo of cavalry rerolling charges with the dragons while the carriot is doing 6 mortals when charge

-now that we have lost almost every buff and aura of the old book we dont have to play castle builds and we have more freedom while playing.

 

in general i think the book have potential to be competitive,in special the elfs are very good and the pirates bomb is maybe too much good but the problem are the battle tactics that are horrible and even if the book is competitive maybe dont win tournaments due to bad scoring due to these battle tactics

Edited August 5, 2023 by Doko

[Ivo]

1 hour ago, Doko said:

after study the book i am pretty happy in general(i am usually pretty pesimist as you know)

have some bad and good things.

 

BAD things:

-mixed races are gone,every buff is locked to a race and coalitions are gone also

-internal balance is horrible,per example all the dwarfs are useless(i think i never have seen a warscroll so bad in entire aos as the gyrocopter)but then the hammerers are great,or the basic elfs are horrible but the elite elfs are great,the human artillery,the stellhelms and the ogre are horribles but the cavalry and foot shootings are good

-the battle tactics are horrible and almost imposible to do

-the book could have been named humas of sigmar and not cities because the 99% of the content is only humans

-they have deleted the 90% of buffs,auras,alegiance skills,reliks etc also the sub factions are almost useless and dont give nothing. so it is pretty boring to do list and change things because we havent options.

 

good things:

-the book have pretty potent magic that is great this edition(a sorcerer with +4 casting gonna be great)

-every race have build:

           -dwarfs have a damage bomb with the hammerers(sadly dwarfs got the worst balance and they are useless)

           -humans have two options,use the foot shooters with mortals with 6 or the bomb of cavaliers together the hero on horse to attack first and +1 atk

           -elfs are the winners of the book,the blackguard is the best defensive unit of the book,the executioners are also the best damage unit of the book(better than hammerers),the sorcerer is the best mage of the book,ohhhh and have the best combo of entire book that nobody seems have seen,the pirates for only 90 points buffed with the elf hero and the spell of elfs that make a unit ignore saves dish out 12'5 mortals wounds(ignore save that is as mortals),so a unit of only 270 points(30 pirates) dish out 37 mortals wounds that is insane! also have the combo of cavalry rerolling charges with the dragons while the carriot is doing 6 mortals when charge

-now that we have lost almost every buff and aura of the old book we dont have to play castle builds and we have more freedom while playing.

 

in general i think the book have potential to be competitive,in special the elfs are very good and the pirates bomb is maybe too much good but the problem are the battle tactics that are horrible and even if the book is competitive maybe dont win tournaments due to bad scoring due to these battle tactics

Typical gw elf bias 😅 i really wanted dwarves to be good

[novakai]

2 hours ago, bethebee said:

That's maybe the worst feature of the book to me.  Wanderers being erased from the lore entirely is one thing, the weirdness around Living City and Phoenicium is another, but all elves being evil now is such a bizarre choice to make.  It's strange since half the fluff is written like it's jolly cooperation as usual, while all the dark elf stuff is just "actually this entire species is all duplicitous torturers and are super evil and edgy" which feels like such a leap to make from the first book.

I'm happy dark elf players got to at least eat decently this time around in terms of rules.  I don't have much hope myself but here's to them hopefully hanging around in the future.

As a bonus: the only Wanderer mention I could find anywhere.  It's just listed as "woman" but try and tell me that isn't a welf.

The antlers makes me think it’s a Kurnothi like that Waywatcher from Curse city.

granted the difference between wanderer and Kurnothi is rather thin and they should just merge or retcon the species to be the same thing

Of course with Kurnothi, GW has been pretty blunt that they are part of Sylvaneth as to even make Qulathis the exile as a Sylvaneth hero instead of a cities one even though she basically a wood elf/wanderers waywatcher. 

 

Edited August 5, 2023 by novakai

[Whitefang]

7 minutes ago, novakai said:

Of course with Kurnothi, GW has been pretty blunt that they are part of Sylvaneth as to even make Qulathis the exile as a Sylvaneth hero instead of a cities one even though she basically a wood elf/wanderers waywatcher. 

Kurnothi actually means the sylvaneth/elf/(or even human maybe) worshippers of kurnoth

the fauns and centaurs are the one blessed by kurnoth to resemble some wild beasts 

And some sylvaneth are also considered as kurnothi.