The Rumour Thread

[Vasshpit]

Yeah I was indifferent then I got excited for new Tomb King's models to proxy for a bonereapers army but then they announced what they did about old models and scale and now my bit of enthusiasm that gained any momentum is gone. 

Crazy to think this is what's come out of an announced project from what four years ago?

If you're excited though then I m excited for your excitement!!! Heh. 

 

 

 

 

Bring on more destro minis for this fella!!!!

[Ogregut]

4 hours ago, MitGas said:

So far TOW looks like it‘s going to implode, no pun intended. They really need more than what they‘ve shown. The HH had a tremendous amount of love and support and TOW looks like it has decent enough love but not enough support from GW itself. Frankly, I‘m not big on TOW and AoS co-existing as the success of one can be detrimental to the other and only some armies will share minis/resources but let‘s wait and see. But a couple of resin characters won‘t do it, even if the rules or the setting are great. I believe our group will stick to AoS (and I loved the old setting)… and I‘m old enough to habe played WHFB in its prime. Best case scenario is that they really reconsider and show some factions proper love but it seems unlikely unfortunately. 

How do you know it hasn't got support from GW? 

We know that new plastic kits are coming. We know resin kits are coming. We also now know 9 armies will receive new models. We're also getting old kits returning which gives choice where there has been a replacement, such as the new treelord vs the weird looking metal one. 

We're also getting free pdfs for armies not in the current narrative on day one and my guess is like the HH book, the supported armies will have lists in the BRB (big red book). 

Seems to me it's getting the same support HH did at launch. 

Granted, how many new kits we vet remain to be seen but to say GW isn't giving it enough support is hyperbole. 

[JackStreicher]

8 hours ago, JerekKruger said:

You're very much not. That models were good... back when they were new (and even back then they had limitations which I was aware of). I recently saw an unpainted Bretonnian Knights of the Realm and it's just shocking how bad the quality is compared to modern kits.

At this point, I wouldn't be willing to buy those models for their early 2000s prices, let alone the inevitable 2023 price they'll appear it.

I just hope the source books are good. I'm interested in this at least.

I agree entirely.

I was hoping to be able to play my Dark Elves in a sensible manner after they‘ve massacred my dreams of returning to Bretonnia - dreams squatted, vanquished, exterminated, obliterated, spoilt, crushed, annihilated, destroyed and desecrated.

 

[Bosskelot]

All they've said is that the pdf factions won't be part of the narrative and won't be getting new models, at least initially.

Considering a lot of the pdf factions are stuff which is still mostly being sold through AOS I fail to see where a lot (I do get some of it) of the doomposting is coming from.

[Beliman]

31 minutes ago, Bosskelot said:

All they've said is that the pdf factions won't be part of the narrative and won't be getting new models, at least initially.

Considering a lot of the pdf factions are stuff which is still mostly being sold through AOS I fail to see where a lot (I do get some of it) of the doomposting is coming from.

Completely agree. It's like any Black Library book: We have 3 or 4 armies that are moving the main narrative with new units,  new ruleset, new weapons and new models. But that doens't mean that other armies are dead (as some people believe), it means that they can still play without any problem, but they need to wait for a new campaign book to be tthe stars of the show. Btw, all this armies still ahve their own rules and miniatures, it's just that they are not the stars of the show in that book.

[Jagged Red Lines]

I think the real interesting thing is the pdf factions and what it might suggest about the future of AoS

• Dark Elves
• Skaven
• Vampire Counts
• Daemons of Chaos
• Ogre Kingdoms
• Lizardmen
• Chaos Dwarfs

  When we got massive range refreshes for seraphon and soulblight, my initial thought was that those models were jointly designed with the Old World in mind. But perhaps not.

  Rumours too suggest too that the new Slaves to Darkness sculpts won't be used in Old World, which suggests that GW wants to stop a certain degree of cross pollination between the two games.

  But if we say that Skaven, Ogors, Soulblight and Seraphon become primarily AoS rather than Old World armies, there are two others here - Dark Elves and Chaos Dwarves.

  Chaos Dwarves have been heavily hinted as coming to AoS for a long time.

  But could it be that Dark Elves will outlive Cities and be repackaged into a Malerion faction?

[Wraith]

14 minutes ago, Beliman said:

Completely agree. It's like any Black Library book: We have 3 or 4 armies that are moving the main narrative with new units,  new ruleset, new weapons and new models. But that doens't mean that other armies are dead (as some people believe), it means that they can still play without any problem, but they need to wait for a new campaign book to be tthe stars of the show. Btw, all this armies still ahve their own rules and miniatures, it's just that they are not the stars of the show in that book.

I think that is how it will be.

For my own part, I am very happy that for all the factions for which I could build an army  (I have a large pile of 'potential'), only one (Chaos Warriors) is in the part of the initially story at release. I can save some money and, more importantly avoid creating more storage problems. Furthermore, I am delighted fans of the long neglected factions are finally getting some love from GW. Not everyone will be pleased but I think GW struck a fairly good compromise with the release plan.

[Grungnisson]

OK, here's an idea.

Why is it taking GW so long to work on TOW in the first place? Because, obviously, they're not going all hands on deck on it. They directed to it limited resources, because they don't want to overcommit. They know it's a high risk project, so they're probably trying to relise it with minimum investment of time and resources and then, based on how it will do initially, they may give it more attention if things look good.

So, how would you launch such project? It would make sense (to me), to let people hit the ground running and build a playerbase as fast as possible, and the easiest way to achieve it would be to let people tap into the vast collections of old plast... erm, white metal they already have. I also think it would be great if they released the core rules for free at launch, as well.

And then you start drip feeding new stuff it.

 

[Gitzdee]

Ok heres my thought on this matter. First the positives. 

1. I think its great that people who are looking for those older models get a chance to buy them again.

2. I think its great for AoS to get rid of the old whfb sculpts and get them back where they belong. The scale is noticably different from all the new sculpts. 

3. I think its a great choice to use the old tree model and not the new one. I wonder if they go this route with vampire counts (black coach, skeletons etc)

Ok now some negatives.

1. Price for those old models wont be pretty and feel bad. Even more if u remember what u used to pay for them. Also the reason why i wont buy any more bonesplitter/spiderfang models. 

2. What are they going to do with bases? AoS happend and me along with many others transfered and rebased a lot of models to round bases. Just feels bad. 

I am also wondering what they are planning with those AoS pdf armies. Are they repackaging those with rounds and squares? My guess is they wil sell squares at a premium price.

I just hope the rules are great for this game. Its always the rules that make or break a game for me. (Almost didnt play 9th at all, hope 10th is good)

[Gotz]

1 hour ago, Jagged Red Lines said:

I think the real interesting thing is the pdf factions and what it might suggest about the future of AoS

• Dark Elves
• Skaven
• Vampire Counts
• Daemons of Chaos
• Ogre Kingdoms
• Lizardmen
• Chaos Dwarfs

  When we got massive range refreshes for seraphon and soulblight, my initial thought was that those models were jointly designed with the Old World in mind. But perhaps not.

  Rumours too suggest too that the new Slaves to Darkness sculpts won't be used in Old World, which suggests that GW wants to stop a certain degree of cross pollination between the two games.

  But if we say that Skaven, Ogors, Soulblight and Seraphon become primarily AoS rather than Old World armies, there are two others here - Dark Elves and Chaos Dwarves.

  Chaos Dwarves have been heavily hinted as coming to AoS for a long time.

  But could it be that Dark Elves will outlive Cities and be repackaged into a Malerion faction?

the only way I see they bring back the old chaos warriors is if they want to keep them with the option of 2 weapons (correct me if I'm mistaken, but if I remember correctly now they just have weapon/halberd+shield and not dual weapons). 

And in this case if you would want to go for weapon+shield nothing stops you from using the new ones..

That said... they kept the old 40K ork kit next to the new one because of loadout issues...

I don't see the kalkadrak or the ogroids making the cut, but warriors, knights, chosen, lords and daemon prince I'm sure will be the new ones

[Flippy]

13 hours ago, willange said:

Except they had the “The Old World” article about them.
One of the only reasons i was excited about this project was to see new models for factions that didn’t make it to AoS (which we’ll get at least some of, thankfully). The big reason, though was to see some genuinely new stuff like Kislev that AoS will probably never have. If Brettonia/TK are 70% ancient models and you have no Kislev, no Cathay, no Araby, nothing truly “new”, then there’s really no reason for someone like me to play TOW. 
I’m happy for those that are hyped, but I’m not really down for more ancient models, personally. 

Oh yes, you are right. I have already forgotten this article; wasn't it just a bunch of design sketches from a computer game though?

As for their idea for TOW I guess its just "We give you the final and ultimate WFB edition. You will get the official ruleset, the opportunity to buy all the old stuff you apparently love so much and a handful of new models from time to time". Nothing more, nothing less. 

[Flippy]

42 minutes ago, Gitzdee said:

2. What are they going to do with bases? AoS happend and me along with many others transfered and rebased a lot of models to round bases. Just feels bad. 

I am also wondering what they are planning with those AoS pdf armies. Are they repackaging those with rounds and squares? My guess is they wil sell squares at a premium price.

They are not going to do anything. Just buy more models and the new bases separately. Seriously, I think that people here are thinking about the cross-compatibility way, way more than GW does.

[Wraith]

37 minutes ago, Flippy said:

Oh yes, you are right. I have already forgotten this article; wasn't it just a bunch of design sketches from a computer game though?

As for their idea for TOW I guess its just "We give you the final and ultimate WFB edition. You will get the official ruleset, the opportunity to buy all the old stuff you apparently love so much and a handful of new models from time to time". Nothing more, nothing less. 

I rather suspect IP rights protection has a lot to do with it. A copyright lawyer might be able to tell us what GW is up to, and possibly, maintaining a living IP might be what that lawyer would talk about. GW is getting a decent income out of royalties, as I understand it. IP matters to them.

Anyway, I don't really care. An up to date rule-set with better base sixes looks pretty good to me. I have other people around who also want to play it. And it is a bit of a blast from the past. One from the vaults, or so to speak. After all, at the end of the day, it is a hobby and thus is all about having some fun with friends. Why over think it?

[Gotz]

15 hours ago, willange said:

Except they had the “The Old World” article about them.
One of the only reasons i was excited about this project was to see new models for factions that didn’t make it to AoS (which we’ll get at least some of, thankfully). The big reason, though was to see some genuinely new stuff like Kislev that AoS will probably never have. If Brettonia/TK are 70% ancient models and you have no Kislev, no Cathay, no Araby, nothing truly “new”, then there’s really no reason for someone like me to play TOW. 
I’m happy for those that are hyped, but I’m not really down for more ancient models, personally. 
 

On an unrelated note, I’m really worried about the “day 1 pdf only factions”. In AoS, that got a lot of armies squatted. I may see my Legion of Azgorh go in the trash yet again lol

Kislev could be tucked inside the empire range, as it was in some editions.

They did quite some articles under TOW banner showing the TWW designs and the Kislev area in the TOW map... so its weird... maybe something to wait for the future. 

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

13 minutes ago, Gotz said:

Kislev could be tucked inside the empire range, as it was in some editions.

They did quite some articles under TOW banner showing the TWW designs and the Kislev area in the TOW map... so its weird... maybe something to wait for the future. 

I would recommend to take GW at their word when they tell you what to expect. They are not the kind of company that would surprise-release Kislev folded into the Empire at launch. When they say "These are the factions: ...", then these really are the factions.

At least initally. I have seen some people take the newest article to mean: "These are all the factions the game will ever be about." But of course it makes no sense for GW not to grow the game by adding new armies like they do for literally all their other ones.

[Clan's Cynic]

4 hours ago, Jagged Red Lines said:

I think the real interesting thing is the pdf factions and what it might suggest about the future of AoS

• Dark Elves
• Skaven
• Vampire Counts
• Daemons of Chaos
• Ogre Kingdoms
• Lizardmen
• Chaos Dwarfs

  When we got massive range refreshes for seraphon and soulblight, my initial thought was that those models were jointly designed with the Old World in mind. But perhaps not.

  Rumours too suggest too that the new Slaves to Darkness sculpts won't be used in Old World, which suggests that GW wants to stop a certain degree of cross pollination between the two games.

  But if we say that Skaven, Ogors, Soulblight and Seraphon become primarily AoS rather than Old World armies, there are two others here - Dark Elves and Chaos Dwarves.

  Chaos Dwarves have been heavily hinted as coming to AoS for a long time.

  But could it be that Dark Elves will outlive Cities and be repackaged into a Malerion faction?

I don't think it has anything to do with AoS.

Dark Elves and Lizardmen are 'New World' factions. Skaven are largely depicted as the direct antagonist of the Lizardmen, so while they can show up anywhere, it would make some sense to save their attention to the inevitable New World/Lustria supplements (which is what Total War did).

Ogre Kingdoms are far off to the East and we know Cathay is coming at some point in the distant future so depending on how close that is they may be waiting for that to give Cathay a direct enemy. The Chorfs may not be in focus for the same reason (the Dark Lands neighbouring Cathay and the Ogre Kingdoms), or it's just because they're a 100% resin army and so will always remain a bit of a red-haired stepchild of the bunch.

Of that list the only real odds ones out in terms of Old World presence are the Vampire Counts and Daemons, but even GW mentioned the Vampire Wars had ended prior to the time period and Daemons won't be in ascension until the Great War Against Chaos (which gets referenced enough that a supplement for it seems extremely likely at some point) so at least they have their excuses in order on that front even though the 40k, AoS and Fantasy Daemon range is 99% shared anyway.

Edited May 24, 2023 by Clan's Cynic

[Sir Grimm]

Hey guys - kind of a off topic question to the current discussion - but what units and single entities you think will be included in the Cities of Sigmar full release beside the Marshall, Cavaliers and Soldiers they have previewed so far?

 

[Vasshpit]

Take it to the "old world discussion" thread, y'all. 😜

[Grungnisson]

1 minute ago, Sir Grimm said:

Hey guys - kind of a off topic question to the current discussion - but what units and single entities you think will be included in the Cities of Sigmar full release beside the Marshall, Cavaliers and Soldiers they have previewed so far?

 

Would expect some ranged, some spellcaster and some biggie. Personal hope is for some sort of war machine or artillery piece.

[Jagged Red Lines]

3 minutes ago, Clan's Cynic said:

I don't think it has anything to do with AoS.

Dark Elves and Lizardmen are 'New World' factions. Skaven are largely depicted as the direct antagonist of the Lizardmen, so while they can show up anywhere, it would make some sense to save their attention to the inevitable New World/Lustria supplements (which is what Total War did).

Ogre Kingdoms are far off to the East and we know Cathay is coming at some point in the distant future so depending on how close that is they may be waiting for that to give Cathay a direct enemy. The Chorfs may not be in focus for the same reason (the Dark Lands neighbouring Cathay and the Ogre Kingdoms), or it's just because they're a 100% resin army and so will always remain a bit of a red-haired stepchild of the bunch.

Of that list the only real odds ones out in terms of Old World presence are the Vampire Counts and Daemons, but even GW mentioned the Vampire Wars had ended prior to the time period and Daemons won't be in ascension until the Great War Against Chaos (which gets referenced enough that a supplement for it seems extremely likely at some point) so at least they have their excuses in order on that front even though the 40k, AoS and Fantasy Daemon range is 99% shared anyway.

I mean, I get that there's a potential lore reason why they aren't around. But the lore can pretty much be whatever they want, it's mostly just a wrapper for product.

In this case they have actual product ready to be sold. They don't need to phase new armies in through narrative expansions, in order to allow development time, because the armies already exist.

To me it just seems like a clear division between Old World and AoS product.

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

Just now, Sir Grimm said:

Hey guys - kind of a off topic question to the current discussion - but what units and single entities you think will be included in the Cities of Sigmar full release beside the Marshall, Cavaliers and Soldiers they have previewed so far?

 

The following units are basically confirmed:

• Handgunners (weapon preview)
• Big Cannon (@Whitefang confirmed)
• Ogor Mercenaries (strongly implied by Whitefang)
• something religious (religious icon preview)

I would say that new Greatswords are also very likely. Whitefang has also told us that the Collegiate Arcane units are in the book, but the Ironweld Arsenal units are not (although we don't know if that means just the artillery or the Steam Tank and Gyrocopter as well).

[MitGas]

8 hours ago, Ogregut said:

How do you know it hasn't got support from GW? 

We know that new plastic kits are coming. We know resin kits are coming. We also now know 9 armies will receive new models. We're also getting old kits returning which gives choice where there has been a replacement, such as the new treelord vs the weird looking metal one. 

We're also getting free pdfs for armies not in the current narrative on day one and my guess is like the HH book, the supported armies will have lists in the BRB (big red book). 

Seems to me it's getting the same support HH did at launch. 

Granted, how many new kits we vet remain to be seen but to say GW isn't giving it enough support is hyperbole. 

I'm saying currently it looks like it doesn't get a hell of a lot of support. Showing two resin minis isn't exactly a great start on the mini side of things.

Edit: I prefer to be proven wrong though, even if I'm undecided if two fantasy settings are a smart choice. I like the world that was and find AoS less interesting (at this point) in regards to the setting as it's still young and in places undefined but not sure if this won't "tear" the fandom apart in a way.

Edited May 24, 2023 by MitGas

[Sir Grimm]

6 minutes ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

The following units are basically confirmed:

• Handgunners (weapon preview)
• Big Cannon (@Whitefang confirmed)
• Ogor Mercenaries (strongly implied by Whitefang)
• something religious (religious icon preview)

I would say that new Greatswords are also very likely. Whitefang has also told us that the Collegiate Arcane units are in the book, but the Ironweld Arsenal units are not (although we don't know if that means just the artillery or the Steam Tank and Gyrocopter as well).

Cool! Do you think we would also get a monster riding Lord centerpiece and updated Demigryphs or we'll be using the Empire ones?

 

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

1 minute ago, Sir Grimm said:

Cool! Do you think we would also get a monster riding Lord centerpiece and updated Demigryphs or we'll be using the Empire ones?

Some sort of new centerpiece is probably a safe bet. I am not sure any old Empire kits will be returning in the new book at this point, though. The for the collegiate arcane stuff I mentioned above, we only have the info that "they should be safe", meaning their warscrolls are still in the book at least, but they too might get new models.

[Draznak]

5 minutes ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

Ogor Mercenaries (strongly implied by Whitefang)

I've seen this info mentioned several times now but I can't find the message or the reaction of our Great Seer who talks about it...

I hope it's true because ogors with a grim-dark-medieval western european flavour would be a potentially great concept (ogor mini from Cursed City is already a tantalising taste of it) !

Otherwise I also hope that COS will have at least one named character. This release is a golden opportunity to expand the Mortal Realms lore and a new charismatic figure would be perfect to reinforce that.