The Rumour Thread

[Ogregut]

2 hours ago, CommissarRotke said:

Complete release in what way? Both of those armies were quite fleshed out for WHF in terms of kits, and still didn't sell enough.

As in there are no models available right now for them. Every other army I listed has at least 1 unit available to buy today. 

All the warhammer armies were fleshed out nicely but didn't sell enough, hence why it had to change. 

[CommissarRotke]

1 hour ago, KingBrodd said:

Cathay and Kislev will probably be the only 'newer' fuller ranges.

this is my thought as well and what's weird is that they'll have to almost scale back (descale? downscale?) how good the models look so they don't feel out of place alongside all of the old kits that will inevitably be brought back. There is just no logistical way TOW is getting all new kits for everyone.

[Captaniser]

I wonder how the reception from the old guard fanbase affects GW's decisions regarding TOW. The response to this new article seems to be overwhelmingly negative, and the new fanbase aren't exactly the type to invest in a TTG. The way GW is going about it seems to just make nobody happy.

[El Syf]

1 minute ago, Captaniser said:

I wonder how the reception from the old guard fanbase affects GW's decisions regarding TOW. The response to this new article seems to be overwhelmingly negative, and the new fanbase aren't exactly the type to invest in a TTG. The way GW is going about it seems to just make nobody happy.

Would you care to elaborate on this? We’ve known for a while it would probably be set in the time of Asavar Kull. Thought it would make the square boys very happy.

Personally would have preferred them not to bother and focus on AoS. My regular opponent is not going back to wfb for love nor money. For me it’s different as vc can easily swap between the two settings but I can’t really bring myself to relearn the rules.

[Snorri Nelriksson]

11 minutes ago, Captaniser said:

I wonder how the reception from the old guard fanbase affects GW's decisions regarding TOW. The response to this new article seems to be overwhelmingly negative, and the new fanbase aren't exactly the type to invest in a TTG. The way GW is going about it seems to just make nobody happy.

To me seems just that people are annoyed by the lack of "substance" regarding these articles.
The timeline is a cornerstone of the setting and many would love to see models for Asavar Kul,Magnus the Pious and so on...i just think many are angry the lack of models preview or a "confirmed" release date to the new game.

[KingBrodd]

18 minutes ago, Snorri Nelriksson said:

To me seems just that people are annoyed by the lack of "substance" regarding these articles.
The timeline is a cornerstone of the setting and many would love to see models for Asavar Kul,Magnus the Pious and so on...i just think many are angry the lack of models preview or a "confirmed" release date to the new game.

When it was announced in 2019 I truly think they were planning for a release this year. Covid and the world went skew wiff and realistically itll be 2024 maybe even 25' till release.

[Noserenda]

Exactly that, Old world seems to be promising a lot but isnt giving us much past maps and the odd colour plate, often essentially the same content over and over, like the time period its set in for example. People got really hyped by the Kislev and Cathay previews but then they were really for the computer game, not Old World, if its focused on an Empire civil war we'd be lucky to see Kislev slightly down the line when the Chaos horde starts moving but Cathay is faaaaar off.

[Ganigumo]

2025 makes sense. 2023 is 40k 10th, 2024 is aos 4 (presumably) and 2025 is their off year

[CDM]

I was really hoping they would do this in a smaller cheaper scale.  Another 28mm game isn't needed but with new models would create more cross over conversions which is rife atm and is always welcome.

Just feel it could of been the new warmaster / current TWW. Those massed rank and file battles coming to a tabletop would be awesome but price prohibits. It would just be the same old issue wouldn't it?

[CommissarRotke]

1 hour ago, Captaniser said:

I wonder how the reception from the old guard fanbase affects GW's decisions regarding TOW. The response to this new article seems to be overwhelmingly negative, and the new fanbase aren't exactly the type to invest in a TTG. The way GW is going about it seems to just make nobody happy.

What are the negative reactions though? that it was an Empire-only article? that it affirmed the End Times happened and TOW isn't a retcon for WHF? the time period itself? the final paragraph sounding exactly like WHF except it's Asavar not Archaon now?

 

[KingBrodd]

31 minutes ago, Ganigumo said:

2025 makes sense. 2023 is 40k 10th, 2024 is aos 4 (presumably) and 2025 is their off year

Oh snap I forgot 4.0 is next year!! Heres hoping the next 18 months for AOS is sick.

[Ogregut]

1 hour ago, Captaniser said:

I wonder how the reception from the old guard fanbase affects GW's decisions regarding TOW. The response to this new article seems to be overwhelmingly negative, and the new fanbase aren't exactly the type to invest in a TTG. The way GW is going about it seems to just make nobody happy.

The way I see it is there are a couple of  types of old guard.

The ones who didn't buy anything new during warhammer, moaned and still moan about it finishing, hate AoS for taking its place and more than likely won't buy anything for the Old World. GW will never please those gamers. And while they are very vocal I do think they are in the minority. 

The ones who were left with a bitter taste in their mouth when warhammer was killed and were unsatisfied with the first AoS but has since got over it, gave AoS. 2 and 3 a chance and now have AoS armies. However there is still that square base itch that they are hopeful the Old World with scratch (me, I'm this guy). 

I'm optimistic about the Old World. The passion shown for necromunda, the Horus Heresy and blood bowl shows what happens when you give a group of designers and rules writers something they love. I'm sure the team behind this will do just as good a job and I hope it makes GW a lot of money. The more it makes the more of it we get. 

 

 

[Chikout]

I was curious about Rob Alderman and it turns out he is part of the middle earth team. I think this is why the project is taking such a long time. Everyone involved has other responsibilities. In order to work on The Old world project they have to take time away from Middle Earth or Necromunda or whatever. I'm starting to think that 2025 is a possibility. 

I definitely think they announced it too soon. It undercut AoS just as it was hitting it's stride. I'm really curious how many people who might have been tempted by third edition decided to wait for The Old World instead. 

 

[Twisted Firaun]

3 hours ago, Snorri Nelriksson said:

To me seems just that people are annoyed by the lack of "substance" regarding these articles.
The timeline is a cornerstone of the setting and many would love to see models for Asavar Kul,Magnus the Pious and so on...i just think many are angry the lack of models preview or a "confirmed" release date to the new game.

I would just like a roadmap, doesn't have to be accurate, but it would be appreciated nonetheless. 

3 hours ago, Grimrock said:

Yeah the Thunderdome us tough enough playing as one of the really strong factions. Any time I think of playing tomb kings I just kinda squirm inside and move on to something a little more manageable. The game is a blast though, and if we actually do see Cathay on the table I really hope we see the dragons too. They'd make absolutely stunning kits. Not to mention the celestial guard, artillery, sky junks... Man Cathay would be so freaking cool on the tabletop. 

The Thunderdome implies there's only one of those atrocities. Lustria is still a nightmare, Araby and the Darklands have been turned into a war of attrition so painful the Iron Warriors would run from it, and the eastern/southern part of Cathay is a battleground between pirates, zombie pirates, and bloody Skaven. the "safest" starting points are either Ulthuan (N'kari can easily be wiped out if one is smart) and the bloody Galleon's Graveyard imo.

4 hours ago, KingBrodd said:

Good to see updates for TOW but I think fans need to manage their hype (I know, funny coming from this bloke!!) when it comes to releases.

Dont expect range refreshes, like, at all.

Maybe a new character here and there and almost all Armies being the exact same models as WHFB.

Cathay and Kislev will probably be the only 'newer' fuller ranges.

All I want from TOW are the return of plastic Tomb Kings kits so that I don't have to go into bidding wars on eBay. I wouldn't mind a new unit or character here and there, but I'm being realistic. Here's hoping Cathay and Kislev get the Lumineth treatment, and not the Idoneth one.

[Ogregut]

1 hour ago, Chikout said:

I was curious about Rob Alderman and it turns out he is part of the middle earth team. I think this is why the project is taking such a long time. Everyone involved has other responsibilities. In order to work on The Old world project they have to take time away from Middle Earth or Necromunda or whatever. I'm starting to think that 2025 is a possibility. 

I definitely think they announced it too soon. It undercut AoS just as it was hitting it's stride. I'm really curious how many people who might have been tempted by third edition decided to wait for The Old World instead. 

 

What makes you think 

 

1 hour ago, Chikout said:

I was curious about Rob Alderman and it turns out he is part of the middle earth team. I think this is why the project is taking such a long time. Everyone involved has other responsibilities. In order to work on The Old world project they have to take time away from Middle Earth or Necromunda or whatever. I'm starting to think that 2025 is a possibility. 

I definitely think they announced it too soon. It undercut AoS just as it was hitting it's stride. I'm really curious how many people who might have been tempted by third edition decided to wait for The Old World instead. 

 

It could be possible he just hasn't updated his LinkedIn profile. 

I doubt there are  many who decided not to play or collect something on the announcement of a game that GW themselves said would take years to come out before a pandemic shut the world down for 2 years. 

[EonChao]

4 minutes ago, Ogregut said:

I doubt there are  many who decided not to play or collect something on the announcement of a game that GW themselves said would take years to come out before a pandemic shut the world down for 2 years. 

There's definitely been a few I've spoken to who've chosen to focus on 40k or buying old WfB stuff instead but I doubt it's a particularly big group, a lot of us tend to struggle with impulse control. If any were considering AoS they've probably started buying into it at least.

 

Also I suspect we'll get a roadmap for TOW once it releases, we've had them for every other game at some point so they must be popular, it's just not worth committing to now when things are so far out.

[Dawi not Duardin]

2 hours ago, Ogregut said:

The way I see it is there are a couple of  types of old guard.

The ones who didn't buy anything new during warhammer, moaned and still moan about it finishing, hate AoS for taking its place and more than likely won't buy anything for the Old World. GW will never please those gamers. And while they are very vocal I do think they are in the minority. 

The ones who were left with a bitter taste in their mouth when warhammer was killed and were unsatisfied with the first AoS but has since got over it, gave AoS. 2 and 3 a chance and now have AoS armies. However there is still that square base itch that they are hopeful the Old World with scratch (me, I'm this guy). 

I'm optimistic about the Old World. The passion shown for necromunda, the Horus Heresy and blood bowl shows what happens when you give a group of designers and rules writers something they love. I'm sure the team behind this will do just as good a job and I hope it makes GW a lot of money. The more it makes the more of it we get. 

I'm the second type of old guard too, but a bit torn about TOW. My story is that I have been restrictive with AoS spending in part in the light of the possibility that TOW might end up replacing it after all, essentially having the company do a massive U-turn. Warhammer is a huge investment in terms of both money and - maybe more importantly, in this stage of my life - time, so it's something I'm worried about. 

Hence, I feel this article is really aimed at me: they are trying to say that AoS is going to stay as their main fantasy game. But that, too, feels weird. AoS has novelty and better minis, WHFB has better atmosphere. But if they are saying that WHFB still is essentially dead, we are just playing "in the past", so to speak, it's not as inspiring as AoS after all is when it is at its best and crazy things keep happening.

IMO the obvious business-meets-lore move for GW would be to say officially, and clearly, that the Warhammer universe is set in an eternally recurring loop of universes that expand and contract and replace each other, with just minor variations between them. Then AoS and pre-End Times WHFB can both be at the current edge of timelines that can be expanded on in any way they want, just in different sub-universes among an infinite set. That way we can have the cake and eat it and even bake new ones if we'd like.

Edited January 12, 2023 by Dawi not Duardin

[Morglum StormBasha]

 

Rob Alderman is one hundred percent still the current product manager for the middle earth line and it makes sense that he juggles this alongside developing The Old World.

I’m curious that we know nothing of who they’ve entrusted with the rules or writing the background yet although assume it will be from the forgeworld stable of writers working on mesbg/bloodbowl/titanicus and necromunda. 
 

im very much looking forward to exploring some of the difference between Ulric/Taal/Manan/Sigmar worshippers and wonder if priests will be more of a focus for the Empire given that their won’t be any battle mages just the odd hedge mage.

I suspect the Old World will come out in 2024, depending on if it’s true that the second game this year alongside 40K 10th is Epic 

[Beliman]

6 hours ago, Dawi not Duardin said:

IMO the obvious business-meets-lore move for GW would be to say officially, and clearly, that the Warhammer universe is set in an eternally recurring loop of universes that expand and contract and replace each other, with just minor variations between them. Then AoS and pre-End Times WHFB can both be at the current edge of timelines that can be expanded on in any way they want, just in different sub-universes among an infinite set. That way we can have the cake and eat it and even bake new ones if we'd like.

I think that's exactly what GW don't want. When The Old World was announced, the whole thing was "the return of warhammer fantasy" followed by "if AoS is 40k, TOW will be Horus Heresy".

This new WarCom seems to make it clear, the Specialist Studio don't want to dismiss anything build by the main studio (probably it was set in fire when the producers accepted TOW project for the Specialist Team).

There are still people that are looking to dismiss endtimes and AoS with not being canon (source: Total Warhammer forum, Great Book of Grudges/ loremaster of Sotek chanels, Twitter threads from Warhammer or any other Hobby influencer, Fanmade edition forums and/or blogs, ...), but most of them are trolls or people that live in their own bubble.

[Gitzdee]

I think they started TOW with some kind of vision that got lost with the succes of HH. Also the lack of information on TOW doesnt help at all and keeps the community grasping at straws. TOW just seems like a ship drifting in an ocean of ideas now. I could be completely wrong but this is the vibe i am getting.

Edited January 12, 2023 by Gitzdee

[Flippy]

10 hours ago, CommissarRotke said:

What are the negative reactions though? that it was an Empire-only article? that it affirmed the End Times happened and TOW isn't a retcon for WHF?

The latter, I suppose. The key part of the article is the one in which GW essentially communicates that TOW is not WHFB coming back to replace AoS.

One of the most important aspects of Warhammer: the Old World is the setting itself. Obviously, this is the World-that-Was, a world of legend destroyed by the machinations of the Ruinous Powers of Chaos at the culmination of the End Times – an event that doomed the denizens of the Old World to oblivion and heralded the birth of the Mortal Realms and the Age of Sigmar.

It’s important to remember, though, that even though the setting is returning, these events still happened, and that the Old World was destroyed. The End Times had long been foreshadowed in the background of Warhammer Fantasy Battle.   

[Clan's Cynic]

People are twitchy because so far all they've shown are lore articles and the occasional piece of concept art. Drip feeding pretty much nothing rarely goes over well - even the reaction to the Dawnbringers/CoS articles has gradually become less positive when it's clear they're just drip feeding until a major event reveal. 

It's clear the whole announcement was done to take the momentum out of the various 'replacement' rank-and-file wargames which were coming about, however it's also meant that they've had to produce these drip feed articles so people aren't taking to social media and 'speculating' that GW/FW has quietly binned the project off - they haven't, they just have nothing to show for it yet.

As it stands I've stopped caring about these articles. I probably won't be given to care until we're maybe 9 months out tops, just because CoS/Dawnbringers made it clear that unless there's a massive leak like what happened with World Eaters, they're not interested in showing much of anything until it's only a few months from release.

 

Edited January 12, 2023 by Clan's Cynic

[Sunshine]

I feel positive that they are playtesting TOW the moment. It should mean they at least have the core rules outlined.
 

I really want info about whether round bases can be used in addition to square, and whether they will be rereleasing some of the old ranges.

[Koala]

I do not want to be THAT guy but i guess people are just people.

There is a small but vocal group in the hobby that will complain about EVERYTHING GW does and whenever GW does anything ( including nothing). 

I guess most of the OW fans are waiting for more substance aka are silent. That could look like the complainers are in the majority...

[Gitzdee]

9 minutes ago, Koala said:

I do not want to be THAT guy but i guess people are just people.

There is a small but vocal group in the hobby that will complain about EVERYTHING GW does and whenever GW does anything ( including nothing). 

I guess most of the OW fans are waiting for more substance aka are silent. That could look like the complainers are in the majority...

I love the the world that was as it introduced me into the hobby. But i just can never understand why GW cant be more transparent about their projects. We live in an age of Kickstarter games where u get to see everything upfront. They announced TOW over 3 years ago and we still know next to nothing. I am usually a patient guy but even i am getting a bit annoyed with AoS getting close to no new releases and all the radio silence surrounding everything.

Edit: Even the rumours are almost nowhere to be found.

(Warcry and Underworlds are doing great)

Edited January 12, 2023 by Gitzdee