zilberfrid Posted July 20, 2022 Share Posted July 20, 2022 23 minutes ago, MitGas said: Nothing you can do about it though unless you want to censor the setting though - you wanna put disclaimers on the minis/books? Perhaps they like their IP as it is, despite some looneys taking it at face value? The timing might've been less than ideal but thankfully the majority are not like that. Also, Space Marines themselves don't have to be bad either (and yes, there are obviously lots of bad apples among the loyalists too), they just serve a bad empire (in a galaxy full of bad factions). I'm sure lots of people drive Ferraris who have opinions the company doesn't share either (think Middle East). And yes, different product with no fitting "message" but ultimately when you go out of your way to exclude a certain group, the whole thing will suffer. I'd suggest to simply not bother with people that have values you won't tolerate and enjoy it with people who you actually like. I enjoy games, movies, books, music, etc. that are liked by people I probably won't get along with either - so what, should I complain about that now too? In the long forgotten past, space marines were the fist of a fascist empire, and clearly also bad guys. Then GW needed a good guy, and that portrayal of "bad" was lessened. Still a fascist empire, but now to be considered heroic. That's just plain fascist propaganda. I don't care that you like a certain thing. There are probably a lot, even the majority of players of space marines and kriegthat aren't fascists. I care that that thing is made to appeal to fascists. 10 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plinketts Mawtribes Posted July 20, 2022 Share Posted July 20, 2022 So, uh...how 'bout them AoS leaks? 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sahrial Posted July 20, 2022 Share Posted July 20, 2022 15 minutes ago, Plinketts Mawtribes said: So, uh...how 'bout them AoS leaks? Anyone checked Awlrach’s boat lately? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Red King Posted July 20, 2022 Share Posted July 20, 2022 1 hour ago, MitGas said: when you go out of your way to exclude a certain group, the whole thing will suffer. This is the paradox of tolerance but that's wildly off topic. 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MitGas Posted July 20, 2022 Share Posted July 20, 2022 37 minutes ago, zilberfrid said: In the long forgotten past, space marines were the fist of a fascist empire, and clearly also bad guys. Then GW needed a good guy, and that portrayal of "bad" was lessened. Still a fascist empire, but now to be considered heroic. That's just plain fascist propaganda. I don't care that you like a certain thing. There are probably a lot, even the majority of players of space marines and kriegthat aren't fascists. I care that that thing is made to appeal to fascists. Your argument borders on being an unreasonable demand. Things evolve and GW (and the companies that work with their IP) didn't stop to portray the Imperium as dubious at best (and very often joke about their factions too...), perhaps you should play some of the games or read more 40k stories. Sometimes said Empire does things that is bad for the involved Space Marines (or other Imperials) too. 40k is a place full of evil factions and it's multi-faceted, with many levels of grey. Can you be a grey to evil character and still be the protagonist? Yes, especially if most other factions are arguably worse than you. Can you be evil and perform acts of heroism (especially in the eyes of people allied with you)? Yes. The fluff is usually written from the perspective of the main faction - that's the Imperium (and used to be the Empire in WHFB). So it should definitely be taken into account, which is something you just swipe away but it is important as it recontextualizes many things. Stop playing Warhammer if you can't stomach the fact that its main faction are fictional fascists, it won't change for you (at least I hope not). Or play Chaos and let them burn, even better! But there are a ton of evil factions in fiction that people find cool and that are therefore portrayed more sympathetically over time (or at least in part), so if we followed your idea, we'd have to rewrite lots of stuff, not just 40k. You wanna burn down the whole house because of a couple of spiders. 12 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MitGas Posted July 20, 2022 Share Posted July 20, 2022 10 minutes ago, The Red King said: This is the paradox of tolerance but that's wildly off topic. I think what everything needs is just plain old common sense. Tolerance is a term that comes almost with "baggage" these days but yes, we could argue for days - and it would be interesting for sure. 2 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snorri Nelriksson Posted July 20, 2022 Share Posted July 20, 2022 (edited) Chorfs takes also from Persians (achemenid and Sassanids). Instead the "whole demon sacrificial worshipping " is mostly taken from the Carthaginian and the Caananites human sacrifices as Romans and Israelites talked about them (the whole "bovine" iconography of Moloch and sometimes Baal,the being burnt alive part and so on). Seeing the warcry warband i think GW will stick to that (also considering TOW) probably just "modernizing" some aspects. Edited July 20, 2022 by Snorri Nelriksson 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomplex Posted July 20, 2022 Share Posted July 20, 2022 I'm really trying to hold out for chorfs as my chaos faction. It's helped that khorne and slaanesh have been sloshing around at the bottom of the barrel, but the recent updates have me wavering. I know I'm only going to collect one... can I wait a few more years? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetlife Posted July 20, 2022 Share Posted July 20, 2022 I’m still going with Dawnbringers vs Chaos Dwarves or whatever they will be called. I remember being told that end of 3.0 will have the chaos dwarves with some giant weapon going to tear down the gates of Azyr. So that would check out with that assumption. I don’t know much about hashut but after reading everyone’s posts about him, he seems like a really flavorful enemy character for the story. Now that Archaon has fizzled out a bit, Nagash got his lights punched out, Belakor made his play and Kragnos attempt was stopped there is a need for a new character to mix things up. Hashut seems like he could fit that need. While every edition has started with stormcast and I know they sell well and that could be Beacuse they force it or just because it truly is popular (don’t want to go down that rabbit hole) I do feel like their range is expansive and almost tapped out. Starting the new editon with the Dawnbringers could be a home run. They will obviously be tied closely with stormcast that they could flawlessly be the new main thing for 4.0. Considering you will probably be able to run stormcast with them, like in COS. From a lore perspective, who better to stand up and protect Azyr then loyal followers. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twisted Firaun Posted July 21, 2022 Share Posted July 21, 2022 1 hour ago, Snorri Nelriksson said: Chorfs takes also from Persians (achemenid and Sassanids). Instead the "whole demon sacrificial worshipping " is mostly taken from the Carthaginian and the Caananites human sacrifices as Romans and Israelites talked about them (the whole "bovine" iconography of Moloch and sometimes Baal,the being burnt alive part and so on). Seeing the warcry warband i think GW will stick to that (also considering TOW) probably just "modernizing" some aspects. I’m willing to bet a whole new chorf kit that we’ll see TOW’s Chaos Dwarf roster via Total War, and that the vast majority of said kits will be useable across the two platforms. I genuinely wonder how powerful Hashut and his legions will be. Does Hashut have “Daemon Princes” dedicated to him? Or does he still rely on the Kdaai? Are the Chaos Dwarfs powerful in one region in particular? And if so which one? Will the Forgeworld named characters be transferred to plastic? Or will we get new names heroes (who hopefully have a book tied to them)….. I can’t wait! 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zilberfrid Posted July 21, 2022 Share Posted July 21, 2022 5 hours ago, MitGas said: Your argument borders on being an unreasonable demand. Things evolve and GW (and the companies that work with their IP) didn't stop to portray the Imperium as dubious at best (and very often joke about their factions too...), perhaps you should play some of the games or read more 40k stories. Sometimes said Empire does things that is bad for the involved Space Marines (or other Imperials) too. 40k is a place full of evil factions and it's multi-faceted, with many levels of grey. Can you be a grey to evil character and still be the protagonist? Yes, especially if most other factions are arguably worse than you. Can you be evil and perform acts of heroism (especially in the eyes of people allied with you)? Yes. The fluff is usually written from the perspective of the main faction - that's the Imperium (and used to be the Empire in WHFB). So it should definitely be taken into account, which is something you just swipe away but it is important as it recontextualizes many things. Stop playing Warhammer if you can't stomach the fact that its main faction are fictional fascists, it won't change for you (at least I hope not). Or play Chaos and let them burn, even better! But there are a ton of evil factions in fiction that people find cool and that are therefore portrayed more sympathetically over time (or at least in part), so if we followed your idea, we'd have to rewrite lots of stuff, not just 40k. You wanna burn down the whole house because of a couple of spiders. This is an interesting discussion, but shall we agree to leave it here? We're not going to convince one another, and it isn't on topic. It started because I wanted to explain one of the reasons I hate everything space marine. That has been established, and it has been established you do not agree with me. I agree settings need to evolve, but we disagree on the effect that departure from satire has had. Stormcast might have been designed originally as AoS's Space Marines, they are a lot less problematic. I may dislike Sigmar for his similarity to the Emperor, but he at least is dr Frankenstein making lightning golems powered by human souls, instead of a corpse on a throne powered by said human souls. Back on topic: I would like Hashut vs Dawnbringers, two new factions of which I like one, but GW would need to be careful with the mesopotamian look of early chorfs, otherwise that crusade would really be on the nose. The current hobgrots and horns seem to be far enough removed, keeping only a few elements that weren't popular in the real world at the time of the crusades (still hate the term crusades for a faction without crosses. Jihad would fit better). 4 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elbaf Posted July 21, 2022 Share Posted July 21, 2022 No one talked about the third Warband that will be announced this week ? I didn't see anyone talk about that "We’ve now had a closer look at the two warbands arriving in the new Warcry core set, but that’s not all. Join us later in the week as we reveal a third new Warcry warband arriving in time for The Heart of Ghur. " 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beliman Posted July 21, 2022 Share Posted July 21, 2022 (edited) I know that this opinion will not be well recieved, but I think that Space Marines are awesome. (I play dark eldar btw). I still remember when Yndrasta or Gardus were revealed. I didn't care about Yndrasta because I didn't recognize her, it was all about her abilities, but finally, we could play with Gardus (thx @JReynolds !)! Imagine this with Space Marines, an army that has a lot more background, that can be played as 10+ diferent armies with their own unique characters, stories, special units, gameplay, etc... and now imagine that FW release a game/setting about an era of myths, with new books/series, with more characters to explore and even their "Lord Commanders" that were part of their legends... That's exactly what Space Marines look to anybody that is engaged with them. Btw, Night Lords fan here! Yep, we can argue that they follow a fascist empire from a fictional setting, sometimes they are good, sometimes they are bad (I prefer when they are bad). The main part of this hobby is knowing that they are not real, they are just a product to have FUN. I think that AoS needs more work, more details (Soulbound did a good job with the Great Patch, I'm really curious if we could see any remains of the Agloraxian Empire). I need a deeper background exploration for most of the races. As a Kharadron Overlord, I only know a tiny bit of my army background: I don't know the names of the new/old Geldraads, I don't know if my Sky-port have unique units (and they should), I don't know the names of the High Council of Admirals for each city, I only know a tiny bit of KO's main conflicts, I need to wait until Cubicle7 develop any Kharadron City (because I only have 3-4 concepts in my books), etc... 27 minutes ago, Elbaf said: No one talked about the third Warband that will be announced this week ? I didn't see anyone talk about that There was another warband of Legionnaires in the Chaos Book. Maybe they are the 3 warband. Edited July 21, 2022 by Beliman 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skreech Verminking Posted July 21, 2022 Share Posted July 21, 2022 44 minutes ago, Beliman said: that Space Marines are awesome Some are some are not I guess. in the end as long as the army looks and is fun to play, does it really matter how they look like? also killing of space marines with chaotic weapons is always fun. so you’ve got my approval as long as they die-die by my cheese stealers paws (basically mutant rats, using gene stealer rules) 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Effect Posted July 21, 2022 Share Posted July 21, 2022 2 hours ago, Elbaf said: No one talked about the third Warband that will be announced this week ? I didn't see anyone talk about that "We’ve now had a closer look at the two warbands arriving in the new Warcry core set, but that’s not all. Join us later in the week as we reveal a third new Warcry warband arriving in time for The Heart of Ghur. " Could be the Chaos Legionnaires that was leaked in the Slaves book? We also have the Centaur hero guy as well I wonder if they will all be released at the same time? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gitzdee Posted July 21, 2022 Share Posted July 21, 2022 2 hours ago, Elbaf said: No one talked about the third Warband that will be announced this week ? I didn't see anyone talk about that "We’ve now had a closer look at the two warbands arriving in the new Warcry core set, but that’s not all. Join us later in the week as we reveal a third new Warcry warband arriving in time for The Heart of Ghur. " It has been mentioned few pages back ;). Still think it will be Seraphon. If i can make a second guess based on one of the icons on the map i hope it will be FEC. Really curious to see what they have in store for them. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captaniser Posted July 21, 2022 Share Posted July 21, 2022 Yeah, away with those evil fascist imperium factions, they're evil. "quietly tucks away my Khorne army" 1 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skreech Verminking Posted July 21, 2022 Share Posted July 21, 2022 39 minutes ago, Gitzdee said: It has been mentioned few pages back ;). Still think it will be Seraphon. If i can make a second guess based on one of the icons on the map i hope it will be FEC. Really curious to see what they have in store for them. Personally I’m still hoping for a clan eshin warcry warband, that updates some of my stuff. But knowing gw, this is probably going to happen when they’ve finally sold their last metal model, knowing that this would basically mean, that an update won’t ever come Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gitzdee Posted July 21, 2022 Share Posted July 21, 2022 5 minutes ago, Skreech Verminking said: Personally I’m still hoping for a clan eshin warcry warband, that updates some of my stuff. But knowing gw, this is probably going to happen when they’ve finally sold their last metal model, knowing that this would basically mean, that an update won’t ever come To be honest im hoping Skaven get proper updated models and not more Warcry/Underworlds warbands. I would like to see a multipart Gutter Runners/ Night Runners kit. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pnkdth Posted July 21, 2022 Share Posted July 21, 2022 (edited) 12 hours ago, zilberfrid said: In the long forgotten past, space marines were the fist of a fascist empire, and clearly also bad guys. Then GW needed a good guy, and that portrayal of "bad" was lessened. Still a fascist empire, but now to be considered heroic. That's just plain fascist propaganda. I don't care that you like a certain thing. There are probably a lot, even the majority of players of space marines and kriegthat aren't fascists. I care that that thing is made to appeal to fascists. They're plastic soldiers from a massively over the top grimdark (even grimderp) setting. Seriously, it is pretty messed up to not only claim GW is "plainly" pushing fascist propaganda but also lowkey claim SM/krieg has a fairly significant player base who idealise and praise the virtues of fascism. Really bad take cause everyone in 40k is in on the joke, so to speak. Krieg, for instance, is just so incredibly grimderp it ends up being awesome. Not in terms of "oh, this is a grand idea" but more in the lines of "haha, shovel go bonk!" Just because I "like a certain thing" does not mean I endorse the actions of people within its fictional universe. Or maybe I'm a really terrible person for enjoying chaos propaganda? I mean, if composing symphonies from the cries of pain and pleasure of my captives is wrong I don't want to be right! 3 hours ago, Beliman said: I know that this opinion will not be well recieved, but I think that Space Marines are awesome. (I play dark eldar btw). I mean, they're so awesome they killed WHFB to reinstate them as SCE, after all. Given how widely represented SCE are in the hobby I'd say the move worked out just as intended. I'm a Dark Eldar player first but dabble in CSM/daemons. Maybe I'm just a depraved person, after all. 😅 Edited July 21, 2022 by pnkdth 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EntMan Posted July 21, 2022 Share Posted July 21, 2022 https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/07/20/the-horns-of-hashut-bring-misery-death-and-fiery-destruction-to-the-new-edition-of-warcry/ They're coming! "The Horns of Hashut take their name from the evil duardin deity they worship, and also act as his heralds of ruination. Marching ahead of his legendary duardin legions, they conquer regions, laying waste to all lifeforms, leaving behind only wastelands for sprawling daemon-forges and dark armouries. The humans that make up the Horns of Hashut have spent their lives living among the Chaos-worshipping duardin, and have long since abandoned such concepts as compassion and mercy." 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xking Posted July 21, 2022 Share Posted July 21, 2022 6 hours ago, zilberfrid said: This is an interesting discussion, but shall we agree to leave it here? We're not going to convince one another, and it isn't on topic. It started because I wanted to explain one of the reasons I hate everything space marine. That has been established, and it has been established you do not agree with me. I agree settings need to evolve, but we disagree on the effect that departure from satire has had. Stormcast might have been designed originally as AoS's Space Marines, they are a lot less problematic. I may dislike Sigmar for his similarity to the Emperor, but he at least is dr Frankenstein making lightning golems powered by human souls, instead of a corpse on a throne powered by said human souls. Back on topic: I would like Hashut vs Dawnbringers, two new factions of which I like one, but GW would need to be careful with the mesopotamian look of early chorfs, otherwise that crusade would really be on the nose. The current hobgrots and horns seem to be far enough removed, keeping only a few elements that weren't popular in the real world at the time of the crusades (still hate the term crusades for a faction without crosses. Jihad would fit better). Sigmar is not like the Emperor, their personalities are not even close. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enoby Posted July 21, 2022 Share Posted July 21, 2022 + Mod hat + While it's been fine so far, I think it's best to steer away from the politics of 40k on the Rumour Thread. 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gitzdee Posted July 21, 2022 Share Posted July 21, 2022 Does anyone know about races/ factions that have been name dropped so far that could potentially be a new army/ warband? Seraphon has been mentioned a lot and now Hashut. I havent caught up with the Thondia stuff so i dont really know what happened there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zilberfrid Posted July 21, 2022 Share Posted July 21, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, xking said: Sigmar is not like the Emperor, their personalities are not even close. That is true. My point was that a god-king who creates supersoldiers and leads an empire isn't that dissimilar from a god-emperor that created supersoldiers and leads an empire. This golden ruler is quite different from the other one. Alive or not is quite a change already. But let's go back to rumours. Do we think new chorfs demon engines will look more like this or this Edited July 21, 2022 by zilberfrid 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.