Ejecutor Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 35 minutes ago, Jagged Red Lines said: Wouldn't surprise me. Look at lumineth wave 1 and 2 - about a year apart. Same for slaanesh (iirc) and soulblight. Most prob this year we'll get more cities and seraphon before we get updates to fyreslayers or idk. Ufff I am not so sure about a second wave so early for both Seraphon and Cities. And especially not this year. We won't get anything big outside of SCE and Skavens this year. Maybe for the 25, but it feels still too early. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ejecutor Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 33 minutes ago, Arzalyn said: It don't make much sense having rules as the driving force. I really can't imagine the rules team being like "oh we created a warscroll for a flying model that buff witch aelves, please create a model for this". Yeah. I am not 100% sure right now, but when I read it from different and trusted sources I remember I was like WTF... this doesn't make sense at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DinoJon Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 1 minute ago, Ejecutor said: Ufff I am not so sure about a second wave so early for both Seraphon and Cities. And especially not this year. We won't get anything big outside of SCE and Skavens this year. Maybe for the 25, but it feels still too early. Okay here me out. Maybe they're showing off Seraphon now, not because they're coming early but because they'll have more rumor engines in the future towards their wave 2 release. We could see Seraphon, realistically anytime from this winter to a year out. So I personally will say(hope) it's a January-Feb 2025 launch with 3-4 kits. *goes back to huffing hopium* 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
novakai Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 Lumineath was probably an outlier I feel, the initial release was probably suppose to be release much earlier (maybe closer to 2018/2019) and then also got hit by Covid delays. The timing from the first and second wave and battletome was probably more reasonable. still Wave 1 and 2 where probably all design at the same time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmac Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 37 minutes ago, MitGas said: Not that I got any insider knowledge but I’d bet good money that we‘ll see a couple of small range extensions/waves for some forces akin to the Sylvaneth/Ironjawz one this edition. Only makes sense as after Skaven there‘s little to do in regards to big updates/nee forces (Ogors, CD and Malerion stuff but that last one could start as a smaller range extension for Daughters too). It's a sensible bet, there's just nothing besides Ogors that needs a massive overhaul anymore. Even the 4E Starter is a first for AoS in that it basically updates two ranges (Skaven AND Stormcast with their redone models and range purge) instead of adding a new army. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmac Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 6 minutes ago, Ejecutor said: Yeah. I am not 100% sure right now, but when I read it from different and trusted sources I remember I was like WTF... this doesn't make sense at all. Rules are absolutely the last thing that gets added. Back when GW was still doing podcasts, there were a lot of rules designers talking about how they pretty much just get handed new models and have to figure out what they're going to do with them. Fluff is I would say a half/half thing in that the final fluff gets finalized after the model and rules are done, but there is guiding narrative and design principals that go into the creation of new models and subfactions to start with. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ejecutor Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 (edited) 2 minutes ago, madmac said: Rules are absolutely the last thing that gets added. Back when GW was still doing podcasts, there were a lot of rules designers talking about how they pretty much just get handed new models and have to figure out what they're going to do with them. Fluff is I would say a half/half thing in that the final fluff gets finalized after the model and rules are done, but there is guiding narrative and design principals that go into the creation of new models and subfactions to start with. I am sure about something. Lore was the last thing, which feels super weird as for me it has to be the first step. But it could just be my head playing Tzentchian games with me. Edited May 7 by Ejecutor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asbestress Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 3 minutes ago, Ejecutor said: I am sure about something. Lore was the last thing, which feels super weird as for me it has to be the first step. But it could just be my head playing Tzentchian games with me. I'd say it's: General faction/subfaction lore/concept art based on lore and vice versa -> Models -> Model/unit lore -> Rules 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
novakai Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 My iffiness on a potential Ogor release is that they have not really tease or shown anything that would imply they would get a refresh this edition (unlike Seraphon with Kroak, or Freeguild with all the witch hunters and narrative stories) outside the new Gorgers (which is a warcry warband of a previously niche unit) and them attacking the crusade, they are not really spotlighted in the lore that much either. of course it could be a case that they are like FEC and are the last release of 4th edition during 2027 (geez) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starfyre Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 Models come first. Did you know the books are also designed first and the writers are given space to write words to fill that space. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HorticulusTGA Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 1 hour ago, Ejecutor said: Lore was the last thing No, that is in fact true : 1 hour ago, madmac said: Fluff is I would say a half/half thing in that the final fluff gets finalized after the model and rules are done, but there is guiding narrative and design principals that go into the creation of new models GW cannot create what ended up being the "Brethern of the Bolt" - for example - without thinking about lore-themes related to the whole Sigmar religion and its many aspects like (which is, as a whole, a general lore thing). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beliman Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 1 hour ago, madmac said: Fluff is I would say a half/half thing in that the final fluff gets finalized after the model and rules are done, but there is guiding narrative and design principals that go into the creation of new models and subfactions to start with That's 100% true Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snorri Nelriksson Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 1 hour ago, Luperci said: something inbetween the baby droth and full size droths would be great. Or something even bigger than the full size droths, a named demigod offspring of vulcatrix I'm hoping to see those volcanic pterosaurs in an old (1st or 2 ed) fyreslayer fortress artwork. A Dawi can dream though... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Copywolf Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 The more I think on that picture, the more I'm confident it is Temple Guard or a foot Scar-Veteran and not an Oldblood. An Oldblood would likely have more ornate material on the back spikes going off the current on foot one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingBrodd Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 Im sorry but GW is really starting to take the **** with prices increases. 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luperci Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 1 minute ago, KingBrodd said: Im sorry but GW is really starting to take the **** with prices increases. they could least afford to pay their employees and talent better after their increasing profits year after year, or even just credit them on their work properly 10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ejecutor Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 4 minutes ago, KingBrodd said: Im sorry but GW is really starting to take the **** with prices increases. If they wouldn't be making insane profits... it would be understandable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Red King Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 2 minutes ago, Ejecutor said: If they wouldn't be making insane profits... it would be understandable. "Number must go up" is not a sustainable business strategy. Many major retailers have come to the realization that there simply isn't any more money to squeeze out of people and have lowered prices. Meanwhile GW announced that not only is your investment no longer safe (we'll squat whatever we want) they are also asking you to pay more up front? 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingBrodd Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 Its the final straw for me. Im officially now only able to collect 1 Faction with this increase. If it goes up again I wont be able to afford the hobby. 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gareth 🍄 Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 I'm resisting starting any new armies too, it's just Orruks for me in AoS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mutton Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 There's a reason they suddenly pulled out this news right before revealing their edition launch box. People will instantly forget about price hikes and crave the new FOMO plastic. It's psychological manipulation. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pizzaprez Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 4 hours ago, madmac said: These days just buying a foot hero is rapidly approaching $50. The newer Kill Teams over in 40K land are $70 for 10 models and the vanguard equivalent boxes are $160, and that's before the new prices kick in. I haven't completely stopped buying GW products yet but I keep getting more selective. Books have been right out for a while now, buying models that aren't in some kind of discount bundle is something I only do with extreme reluctance. Ordering directly from GW is something I don't even consider. Yep. Had my eye on the Biophagus as a healer for my Frostgrave warband, but $33 for one dude was a bit much. And that price is going up now? I'm with you that it really is "discount bundles through retailers that offer a discount on top of that" for me, but that's honestly just hitting the ballpark of what GW prices used to be instead of feeling like an actual discount these days. Not to say GW is not making cool products; I still like their stories and miniatures, but with an exorbitant cost and no credit to the underpaid artists in their employ I'm having a harder and harder time staying "in it" each hike. Like, outside of centerpiece models for a couple armies (that I'll push off buying for much longer now) I'm really just hoping for a bundle of new Chaos Dwarfs and I'll cross my fingers for a holiday box with the Sylaneth models I was aiming to grab for my wife. I'd had some designs to maybe kitbash my Perry knights with Cities and Bretonnia stuff, but at this point I'm just going to enjoy them for what they are. I've got enough to build and paint, so it's not huge loss, but it's wild that I was priced out of this in high school and early college, and now I've got a career and I'm hitting my price ceiling again. Could I afford it? Maybe! Should I? Do I want to? Nah. 4 hours ago, Ejecutor said: Someone did the maths since 2016 and the price went up close to a 40% in 8 years. Yeah that's not it: I have not received a 40% increase in pay in that time! This is a hobby and a luxury and I've already been eyeing 3D printers as a new hobby venture and getting more invested in other miniatures company's products. Not saying "I'm just going to 3D print GW IP " more, like, there are so many other pretty models out there that I'm having a hard time justifying not going for them instead. 3D printing is a whole new venture I've avoided the learning curve on, but it's getting to the point where the "best deal!" starter bundles are just about $180 after tax in my state. I'm sorry; that's insane. There was a point in time where GW would've been my first choice for miniatures, with other studio's offers facing an uphill climb to even get me to consider them. I'd like to play D&D and Frostgrave with miniatures for the NPC's. Moving forward, GW has pretty much priced itself out of that for me. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScionOfOssia Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 2 hours ago, novakai said: My iffiness on a potential Ogor release is that they have not really tease or shown anything that would imply they would get a refresh this edition (unlike Seraphon with Kroak, or Freeguild with all the witch hunters and narrative stories) outside the new Gorgers (which is a warcry warband of a previously niche unit) and them attacking the crusade, they are not really spotlighted in the lore that much either. of course it could be a case that they are like FEC and are the last release of 4th edition during 2027 (geez) They did have the Butcher doing the ritual in Behemat’s corpse. Or they invade Skavenblight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ejecutor Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 21 minutes ago, Mutton said: There's a reason they suddenly pulled out this news right before revealing their edition launch box. People will instantly forget about price hikes and crave the new FOMO plastic. It's psychological manipulation. Sounds like something GW would do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asbestress Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 Another price hike is really pushing it now. I'll be holding off on growing my Cities backlog (apart from a Spearhead when I'm done with what I have) until we maybe get a christmas Battleforce and/or new army set. But on the topic of Cities, I've been reading Lexicanum maybe a bit too much, and have come up with another wishlist. Spoiler Slightly more „realistic” / informed Cities wave 2 wishlist: Leaders Bombardier-Major / Fusil-Major on foot Freeguild Sub-Marshal / Captain Freeguild Marshal on Griffon / other big creature Devoted Priest Mage Units Freeguild Knights (heavy infantry) Flagellants Ogor Warhulks (unit of 3-5 ogor infantry) Wildercorps Outriders (scout/crossbow cavalry) Steam-Wagon with crew options Wildercorps Arbalesters Fusiliers Fusil-Major / Bombardier-Major Behemoths Cogfort Explanation Spoiler Bombardier Major: mentioned in Dawnbringers Sub-Marshal: mentioned in Dawnbringers Freeguild Marshal on Griffon: Fantasy Empire kit that stuck around Devoted Priest: Devoted still only have Zenestra and Flagellants (and now an Underworlds band) Mage: Empire Battlemage kit is still around (maybe Hurricanum/Luminark replacement with Steam-Wagon/Cogfort options?) Freeguild Knights: Arch-Knights have to come from somewhere/filling in a gap in specializations Flagellants: Fantasy Empire kit that stuck around Ogor Warhulks: Fusil-Major descriptions give me the vibe that a Warhulk is a separate type of thing and not only a mount option Wildercorps Outriders: filling in a gap in specializations Steam-Wagon: mentioned in Dawnbringers and Warcry Wildercorps background as being extremely common military vehicles Cogfort: Whitefang back me up Wave 2 is dead and I'm killing it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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