The Rumour Thread

[Ogregut]

4 minutes ago, Neverchosen said:

Wait! Games Workshop listens to this forum?

CHAOS DWARVES, SILENT PEOPLE, KURNOTHI AELVES, MALERION, HALFLING KNIGHTS, VAMPIRATES!

CRITTERS AND KEYS!!!

Okay, back to rumours... What are we expecting revealed tomorrow? Eldar/Choas?

I think it will be Tau tomorrow. The chaos/eldar box is coming in February. 

[Matrindur]

Another thing for everyone who says that we don't know the big picture yet and maybe new allegiance abilities will save them, that may be the case but we haven't even heard anything about those new books and have no idea when they would be coming.

So unless GW surprise releases it in the next weeks (and there is a near 0% chance of that), Fyreslayers players will only have these rules to play with for a month or two at least which I think warrants a bit of ranting.

(Unless of course you just ignore them and play with the old ones until the book)

 

Edited January 15, 2022 by Matrindur

[Neverchosen]

Just now, Ogregut said:

I think it will be Tau tomorrow. The chaos/eldar box is coming in February. 

With the amount of articles they have gotten I keep feeling like they have been released already 😅

I will admit I am really liking what I have seen of the Tau rules. Not a 40k person but Tau mix the few things I like about the setting aliens and robots.

I hope we get an announcement soon about Idoneth and Fyreslayer/Duardin books. 

[Matrindur]

4 minutes ago, Ogregut said:

I think it will be Tau tomorrow. The chaos/eldar box is coming in February. 

Tau will be tomorrow for sure since they started uploading repackaged boxart for retailers which they normally do around the time the codex drops

[Clan's Cynic]

What makes it so frustrating is that in an army with literally 3 units, they still can't get the internal balance right and actually made it somehow worse. This isn't Codex: Space Marines with it's 464326432632 different units where you expect some slipup. 

It's not like Aurics, Vulkites and Berzerkers were all jockeying for first place. HGB were by far the most obvious option throughout 2.0 and the only real reason not to spam them was 1) Real-world cost and 2) Because you actually wanted a tiny bit of visual diversity. 

If HBG got nerfed into the dirt and everything else got slightly worse I could kind of see where they were aiming from. I mean I'd still be upset, but you kind of expect it. But whilst nerfed, HBG actually made it out of these Warscrolls better than everybody else. I mean what? 

"But they might change the Warscrolls, they might be different in the Battletome!" It feels like they've done too much work going over the cards to just be a copy/paste job. Too many little things have been tweaked.

"But what about the allegiance abilities." That didn't stop Hedonites from being D-tier come the launch of their Battletome. Whilst I hope I'm wrong and this is more of a Soulblight situation, it's not as if there's much reason to be confident in GW's writing.

Also we don't actually know if a Battletome is coming yet, or when. This isn't a Shadow Throne situation when both were announced at the same time despite delays. It seems highly likely of course, but the lack of any news is a bit odd.

The only thing my gut tells me will be changed is the Flamekeeper lacking the <Priest> keyword in the boxset is because GW didn't want to have to print out a list of his Prayers to put in the box and he might have it in the actual Battletome, albeit at a higher price.

Edited January 15, 2022 by Clan's Cynic

[novakai]

They don’t,

only 4chan rumour poster read the forum and take some of Neverchosen ramblings and that how we get a lot of nonsense on this forum 

[madmac]

1 minute ago, Clan&#x27;s Cynic said:

What makes it so frustrating is that in an army with literally 3 units, they still can't get the internal balance right and actually made it somehow worse. This isn't Codex: Space Marines with it's 464326432632 different units.

It's not like Aurics, Vulkites and Berzerkers were all jockeying for first place. HGB were by far the most obvious option throughout 2.0 and the only real reason not to spam them was 1) Real-world cost and 2) Because you actually wanted a tiny bit of visual diversity. 

If HBG got nerfed into the dirt and everything else got slightly worse I could kind of see where they were aiming from. I mean I'd still be upset, but you kind of expect it. But whilst nerfed, HBG actually made it out of these Warscrolls better than everybody else. I mean what? 

"But they might change the Warscrolls, they might be different in the Battletome!" It feels like they've done too much work going over the cards to just be a copy/paste job. Too many little things have been tweaked.

"But what about the allegiance abilities." That didn't stop Hedonites from being D-tier come the launch of their Battletome. Whilst I hope I'm wrong, it's not as if there's much reason to be confident in GW's writing.

 

Honestly, I've had a bad feeling about Fyreslayers since their BR "update". Changed two hero warscrolls in ways that left them basically the same or worse, just honestly a wasted effort. Made me suspect they were just going to un-nerf throwing axes again and call it a day and somehow managed to do worse than even that minimum of effort.

[Gailon]

In an attempt to advocate for the changes (or really try to figure out a way they could make sense) I see a couple possibilities. 
 

the most optimistic is that these are balanced with faction abilities. Seraphon is a good example of weak warscrolls bolstered by very good faction abilities and stacking buffs. Give Vulkites a ‘ferocious warriors’ faction ability that gives them +2 move out of combat and +1 attack in combat and they look a lot better. 
 

the other possibility is that Fyreslayers are suffering from being balanced within casual games. By their nature they have always been a matchup dependent army. They can be incredibly good against certain melee based lists that also aren’t competitive in the meta. 
 

unfortunately this also fits with some beginner or casual armies and definitely with beginner play style. A brand new player is far more likely to line their army up on the front line, move forward and charge. Fyreslayers will smack the heck out of a lot of games when it’s newbie casual vs newbie casual. 
 

I know that I have a heck of a time against them if I play a Saurus list or Stormcast paladins. I can’t charge Hearthguard because they just fight first and kill me. 
 

of course competitive tournament lists have shooting and/or magic and have very little problem killing Fyreslayers. 
 

personal let I think (hope) it’s a bit of both. I expect good faction abilities to match the dwarves. But also them to lose fight first. 
 

But I think Fyreslayers may suffer by being thematically the best in Melee. It will make them the best against new players and the worst against tournament lists.

I do think people are overstating the coherency rules impact. 10  32mm unit with 1” range will virtually always get more than 5 into combat. 

[Twisted Firaun]

5 minutes ago, Neverchosen said:

Wait! Games Workshop listens to this forum?

CHAOS DWARVES, SILENT PEOPLE, KURNOTHI AELVES, MALERION, HALFLING KNIGHTS, VAMPIRATES!

CRITTERS AND KEYS!!!

Okay, back to rumours... What are we expecting revealed tomorrow? Eldar/Chaos?

I personally want them to reveal the rest of the highly rumored Chaos Expansion (traitor guard, new possessed, etc) and some Old World news.

[novakai]

5 hours ago, Gaz Taylor said:

+++ Mod Hat On +++
Just to make it very clear - no more bin and sin references to people working on the books. It’s not nice and I’m pretty sure if I started calling people the “bin guy” about work they do, you would get annoyed.

 

I mean I probably get me sad being Bin guy but motivated me to do better at my job, since I get the opportunity to write rules instead of other mundane job stuff

how is this different from real life and work lol?

Edited January 15, 2022 by novakai

[novakai]

6 minutes ago, Loyal Son of Khemri said:

I personally want them to reveal the rest of the highly rumored Chaos Expansion (traitor guard, new possessed, etc) and some Old World news.

All I heard is that they trying to hire a forge world resin sculptor position for the Specialist team to have a chance to work on Old World as well as Bloodbowl and Necromunda

Edited January 15, 2022 by novakai

[Gaz Taylor]

1 hour ago, Austin said:

This is really a new low for forced happiness on these forums.  When all GW hears is echo chamber praise for no reason and the game doesn't improve, it will happen directly because of things like this.

🤔

Really!?!

Have I said nobody is allowed to have a opinion on a book? No I have asked you all to be mindful about throwing round words like bin and sin. You can post on this forum and say you don’t like something (but please keep it constructive) but being part of TGA (and I would like to think outside in the real world) means you try to be polite. One of the reasons GW stopped saying who wrote books was because of things like this. If you think being polite and trying to be a decent person is forced happiness, this may not be the forum for you.

1 hour ago, shinros said:

Honestly, the meme would stop if GW just wrote better books and warscrolls. They can do it, just look at some of the books and warscrolls in the game. Yet, some books just feel low effort in general. If people are feeling that way about your product then perhaps something is wrong.

As somebody who has just finished a year of multi critical projects that have had all sorts of outside influences (you budget has just been halved or we want it next week due to a promise to the board), I suspect it’s not just a case of writing better rules. 

[Twisted Firaun]

14 minutes ago, novakai said:

All I heard is that they trying to hire a forge world resin sculptor position for the Specialist team to have a chance to work on Old World as well as Bloodbowl and Necromunda

Where’d you hear that? Also, did they mention anything about what’s coming for Death players?

[Austin]

4 minutes ago, Gaz Taylor said:

🤔

Really!?!

Have I said nobody is allowed to have a opinion on a book? No I have asked you all to be mindful about throwing round words like bin and sin. You can post on this forum and say you don’t like something (but please keep it constructive) but being part of TGA (and I would like to think outside in the real world) means you try to be polite. One of the reasons GW stopped saying who wrote books was because of things like this. If you think being polite and trying to be a decent person is forced happiness, this may not be the forum for you.

As somebody who has just finished a year of multi critical projects that have had all sorts of outside influences (you budget has just been halved or we want it next week due to a promise to the board), I suspect it’s not just a case of writing better rules. 

So what you just wrote is a perfect example of what is actually impolite. 

It is not a personal attack to tell someone who makes a product that the product is poor. Saying something like "if you think....trying to be a decent person is forced happiness", which is clearly not what I said and not even really on topic, is actually a personal attack.

This is how backwards things are right now, and it is unhealthy for the game. The person who should be protected, and felt sympathy for, is the person whose army is bad now.  For the time and attention put into that army. NOT the one who made it bad. The customer, not the business.

[novakai]

Just now, Loyal Son of Khemri said:

Where’d you hear that? Also, did they mention anything about what’s coming for Death players?

They posted the job listing sometime ago, said nothing about the game but it does confirm that the specialist gaming division is doing the project and resin FW hero are a thing like Bloodbowl star players and Necromunda Mercenaries 

[Gaz Taylor]

8 minutes ago, Austin said:

So what you just wrote is a perfect example of what is actually impolite. 

It is not a personal attack to tell someone who makes a product that the product is poor. Saying something like "if you think....trying to be a decent person is forced happiness", which is clearly not what I said and not even really on topic, is actually a personal attack.

This is how backwards things are right now, and it is unhealthy for the game. The person who should be protected, and felt sympathy for, is the person whose army is bad now.  For the time and attention put into that army. NOT the one who made it bad. The customer, not the business.

I agree that saying that a product is poor and describing about that is fine and not a personal attack. Using phrases like “bin” and “sin” isn’t fine and is a personal attack. 
 

13 minutes ago, novakai said:

They posted the job listing sometime ago, said nothing about the game but it does confirm that the specialist gaming division is doing the project and resin FW hero are a thing like Bloodbowl star players and Necromunda Mercenaries 

Yup. Always keep an eye on the jobs page. They are currently recruiting for a AOS games designer which suggests expansion or replacement.

[Ragest]

I'm the first one happy to start a rant about some books (I will say to the end that second wave of lumineth is just made for painters and both first and second book are the worst written in the game) but this time… We know nothing about books.

I understand people can fear some fiasco like slaneesh again, but we saw dok nerfs before bt's release and then that army was one of the strongest, so everything can happen.

Edited January 15, 2022 by Ragest

[CommissarRotke]

20 minutes ago, Austin said:

This is how backwards things are right now, and it is unhealthy for the game. The person who should be protected, and felt sympathy for, is the person whose army is bad now.  For the time and attention put into that army. NOT the one who made it bad. The customer, not the business.

I can also feel sympathy for GW's (most likely) overworked employees and not want them to get death threats or constant insults because of words they typed in a computer. GW isn't exactly great to its customers, but that isn't a license to harass their staff, whether you think you're doing it or not. Idk man, there's a few things you can do instead. Use different rules. Stop buying GW books.

This issue is basically an ourobouros at this point: GW's behavior causes bad blood in fans, which in turn makes GW staff not want to engage, etc etc. The ball is in the court they've built for themselves. Doesn't mean we have to sink to that level.

[shinros]

1 hour ago, Gaz Taylor said:

🤔

Really!?!

Have I said nobody is allowed to have a opinion on a book? No I have asked you all to be mindful about throwing round words like bin and sin. You can post on this forum and say you don’t like something (but please keep it constructive) but being part of TGA (and I would like to think outside in the real world) means you try to be polite. One of the reasons GW stopped saying who wrote books was because of things like this. If you think being polite and trying to be a decent person is forced happiness, this may not be the forum for you.

As somebody who has just finished a year of multi critical projects that have had all sorts of outside influences (you budget has just been halved or we want it next week due to a promise to the board), I suspect it’s not just a case of writing better rules. 

This is going to make me sound like an ******, but I'll be blunt. I don't care about GW's feelings. As Austin said there is a certain decorum on how things are done. But GW have released good books and good warscrolls. So, me as a consumer has certain expectations. When those expectations are are not met, obviously I'll get annoyed and upset. Since this is quite a high value hobby for many people.

Again going back to my my own issues and why I have little sympathy..

Look at all the work put in the Slaanesh feedback and still, I haven't seen anything pleasing. Hell, put the DOK book and the slaanesh book together on release, how is there such a discrepancy in terms of their design and writing?

Not looking for something crazy here, it's why I went for soulblight.

At this point I'm not going to care about his or her feelings if it feels like I'm being ignored, at the end of the day.

So in this case, if X bothers the writers so much, fix it. End of. It can be done, we've all seen it done. So in my eyes there are no excuses unless books aren't peer reviewed. Which I think would be crazy. But considering the strange design bends and heights with the books and warscrolls that might be the answer.

Edited January 15, 2022 by shinros

[KingBrodd]

I'm glad that I'm not into the gaming side of the hobby as it seems to cause stress among those who do and I feel for them as nobody wants stress to be a part of the thing they do for fun.

That being said Blackpowders Buccaneers went up for pre order today so I've snagged them and Hrothgorns Mantrappers for £11 using a voucher!!

[acr0ssth3p0nd]

31 minutes ago, shinros said:

This is going to make me sound like an ******, but I'll be blunt. I don't care about GW's feelings. As Austin said there is a certain decorum on how things are done. But GW have released good books and good warscrolls. So, me as a consumer has certain expectations. When those expectations are are not met, obviously I'll get annoyed and upset. Since this is quite a high value hobby for many people.

Again going back to my my own issues and why I have little sympathy..

Look at all the work put in the Slaanesh feedback and still, I haven't seen anything pleasing. Hell, put the DOK book and the slaanesh book together on release, how is there such a discrepancy in terms of their design and writing?

Not looking for something crazy here, it's why I went for soulblight.

At this point I'm not going to care about his or her feelings if it feels like I'm being ignored, at the end of the day 

So in this case, if X bothers the writers so much, fix it. End of. It can be done, we've all seen it done. So in my eyes there no excuses unless books aren't peer reviewed. Which I think would be crazy. But considering the strange design bends and heights with the books and warscrolls that might be the answer.

Sure. GW is a corporation, and corporations are not your friend. You should not feel the need to go to bat and defend poor products over brand loyalty, or because you wish desperately that they were good. But you should care about the feelings of the developers actually making these things, because they're actual people. Chances are that they aren't 100% satisfied with the finished product, either, but that's what they were able to produce under the company's structure, release model, and budget.

I work in game dev. I have been very vocal about my frustrations with Halo Infinite's transaction model. I have been vocal about my frustrations with the Sylvaneth and their Wyldwoods. I have torn the crud out of the current state of the Necrons book. The D&D 5e Ranger is straight-up the reason I no longer play D&D. I have said all of this because I genuinely believe that these flaws are flaws that reduce the quality of the things I love, and should be addressed. I have also felt like my frustrations were not being addressed by the company that makes those things, which absolutely exacerbated my frustrations.

But every time I have talked about these things, and made my criticisms, I have tried very hard to not reference the people behind those choices in my criticisms, because that's beside the point and adds nothing to my points. I know from personal experience not to assume why things aren't getting addressed.

And when I felt consistently like my frustrations weren't being addressed, like with the mess with the D&D 5e ranger? Well, first I got angry, unhealthily angry. But then, I realised that the anger wasn't worth it over a game, a hobby I do to enjoy myself. The D&D team, for whatever reason, wasn't going to adequately address my concerns with the Ranger, and if that meant I wasn't going to enjoy D&D, it wasn't worth me continuing to play D&D. I walked away from D&D and found new games. I took my frustrations and channeled them into making my own Rangers TTRPG. And I'm currently doing the same with AoS and 40K - moving away from these games that I'm finding more and more frustrating to read about and engage with. I love the hobby and the universes, but the games are making me frustrated enough that I find myself getting more anger out of them than joy.

My point is, if you are that frustrated about the state of AoS that you are going to insult the people behind the mechanics and state that you don't care about their feelings, that's a you problem. This is a game, a hobby. There are areas in life where it is worth disregarding the feelings of human beings when addressing those human beings' actions. Games and the Warhammer hobby are not that area.

Yes, it's frustrating when a hobby you love feels subpar and there are clear fixes. Yes, it can feel like bashing your head against a problem that feels like it should have been caught before release. Your frustration there is valid! Your criticisms of the material can be valid! But the response of going after the people creating that material is not. If you have begun to reach that point, I suggest you take a serious look at the place that AoS and GW has in your life, the aspects of the hobby you actually enjoy, and whether or not those aspects can be kept while removing yourself from the aspects that cause you frustration and anger.

Edited January 15, 2022 by acr0ssth3p0nd

[shinros]

13 minutes ago, acr0ssth3p0nd said:

Sure. GW is a corporations are not your friend. You should not feel the need to go to bat and defend poor products over brand loyalty. But you should care about the feelings of the developers actually making these things, because they're actual people. Chances are that they aren't 100% satisfied with the finished product, either, but that's what they were able to produce under the company's structure, release model, and budget.

I work in game dev. I have been very vocal about my frustrations with Halo Infinite's transaction model. I have been vocal about my frustrations with the Sylvaneth and their Wyldwoods. I have torn the crud out of the current state of the Necrons book. The D&D 5e Ranger is straight-up the reason I no longer play D&D. I have said all of this because I genuinely believe that these flaws are flaws that reduce the quality of the things I love, and should be addressed. I have I have also felt like my frustrations were not being addressed by the company that makes those things.

But every time I have talked about these things, I have not once even referenced the people behind those choices in my criticisms, because that's beside the point and adds nothing to my points. I know from personal experience not to assume why things aren't getting addressed.

And when I felt consistently like my frustrations weren't being addressed, like with the mess with the D&D 5e ranger? Well, first I got angry, unhealthily angry. But then, I realised that the anger wasn't worth it over a game, a hobby I do to enjoy myself. The D&D team, for whatever reason, wasn't going to adequately address my concerns with the Ranger, and if that meant I wasn't going to enjoy D&D, it wasn't worth me continuing to play D&D. I walked away from D&D and found new games. I took my frustrations and channeled them into making my own Rangers TTRPG. And I'm currently doing the same with AoS and 40K - moving away from these games that I'm finding more and more frustrating to read about and engage with. I love the hobby and the universes, but the games are making me frustrated enough that I find myself getting more anger out of them than joy.

My point is, if you are that frustrated about the state of AoS that you are going to insult the people behind the mechanics and state that you don't care about their feelings, that's a you problem. This is a game, a hobby. There are areas in life where it is worth disregarding the feelings of human beings when addressing those human beings' actions. Games and the Warhammer hobby are not that area.

Yes, it's frustrating when a hobby you love feels subpar and there are clear fixes. Yes, it can feel like bashing your head against a problem that feels like it should have been caught before release. Your frustration there is valid! Your criticisms of the material can be valid! But the response of going after the people creating that material is not. If you have begun to reach that point, I suggest you take a serious look at the place that AoS and GW has in your life, the aspects of the hobby you actually enjoy, and whether or not those aspects can be kept while removing yourself from the aspects that cause you frustration and anger.

Never have insulted them. But I don't care, if they care about memes on the Internet so much then fix the problem. That's it.

Anyway this is all I'm going to say since this is technically off topic.

Edited January 15, 2022 by shinros

[Neverchosen]

20 minutes ago, KingBrodd said:

I'm glad that I'm not into the gaming side of the hobby as it seems to cause stress among those who do and I feel for them as nobody wants stress to be a part of the thing they do for fun.

That being said Blackpowders Buccaneers went up for pre order today so I've snagged them and Hrothgorns Mantrappers for £11 using a voucher!!

I love the game and I luckily don't feel this level of stress at all. The most fun part of the game is the camaraderie and showing off all our Hobby work to one another. The only stressful thing for me (other than the cost and storage) is point adjustments requiring me to add or drop units that I worked hard on painting and building. But I have never been competitive at all and I love seeing my friends win. Make my Chaos Knights Hit and Wound on a 6+ and I will still have a fun time if I spend it with good company! 😁

I just painted my Hrothgorn and had a lot of fun with it. I am loving painting my Ogors so much detail but with a canvas that lets me work on them. Although, my cousin just got me my personal hobby grail in a unit of Varanguard so I will have to put my Ogors on hold for a moment. I am absolutely getting Blackpowders Buccaneers down the line and I will probably use him as a Tyrant for my Ogors and a Proxy for Gotrek for my Stormcast. A sell sword Ogor that has made an uneasy peace with the Stormcast to beat back the forces of Chaos in the northlands.

Edited January 15, 2022 by Neverchosen

[acr0ssth3p0nd]

2 minutes ago, shinros said:

Never have insulted them. But I don't care, if they care about memes on the Internet so much then fix the problem. That's it.

And if you don't think that someone who loved Warhammer enough to get a job designing rules for it wouldn't fix the problem immediately if they had the power to, then you're very much mistaken. A lack of quality QA (whether that's time, tools, testers), an out-of-date update-delivery mechanism, personnel being moved to other projects - all of these things can (as I have personally witnessed) make it impossible to immediately deliver fixes you desperately want to see happen.

"If they care about memes on the Internet so much then fix the problem. That's it," straight-up does not reflect the reality of game development and how fixes actually reach the hands of the player.

[shinros]

15 minutes ago, acr0ssth3p0nd said:

And if you don't think that someone who loved Warhammer enough to get a job designing rules for it wouldn't fix the problem immediately if they had the power to, then you're very much mistaken. A lack of quality QA (whether that's time, tools, testers), an out-of-date update-delivery mechanism, personnel being moved to other projects - all of these things can (as I have personally witnessed) make it impossible to immediately deliver fixes you desperately want to see happen.

"If they care about memes on the Internet so much then fix the problem. That's it," straight-up does not reflect the reality of game development and how fixes actually reach the hands of the player.

Don't care about the reality of game development. It's not my problem as a consumer. Release a bad product and I will criticise it. They've released good products so I know they can do it.

Now if being called sin guy or bin guy wounds their creative spirit to the point they can't work properly. All the belly aching in the world won't  make it go away. It's the Internet. But do you know what would help deal with that? Releasing consistent books.

Edited January 15, 2022 by shinros