The Rumour Thread

[JackStreicher]

6 minutes ago, sandlemad said:

GW charges what they like because they know they can.

And we applaude, justify the pricing  and defend GW because it makes us feel better if the price has any justification, and continue to buy, and the price continues to rise.

Edit: It's been like this for 20+ years. I simply hope people will react to this new price hike so the community sets a sign.

Edited October 6, 2020 by JackStreicher

[plavski]

7 minutes ago, sandlemad said:

True but then Warlord games (Hail Caesar, Bolt Action, Pike & Shotte) and Northstar (Frostgrave) both manufacture their plastic and metal in the UK as well, literally down the road from GW headquarters in Nottingham, and their kits are considerably cheaper.

I've not seen much that would lead me to attribute GW's high prices to anything other than "because they can". Sprue numbers don't account for it. A given kit's role within the army doesn't account for it, at least not consistently. Materials and manufacturing don't account for it. With a few exceptions where they've tentatively felt out the boundaries of what the market will bear, GW charges what they like because they know they can.

They don't have to do so much R&D and expansion for the next few years of models, books, and ancillary stuff. Designing new box games takes money and everyone loves box games. GW crank out content like nobodies business and they are always pushing new things and building entirely new ways to play with toy soldiers. That stuff has to get funded by something. They don't live paycheck to paycheck.

Ultimately, don't we all have enough armies already? New players have loads of cost effective ways into the hobby already; this SoB release isn't for them. It's for people who can afford to throw down the big bucks for yet another army or to add to their existing and already paid for army. If it's too expensive, it's too expensive. Take your hobby bucks elsewhere. Sigmar knows there's enough content in this game already!

[Joseph Mackay]

4 minutes ago, JackStreicher said:

And we applaude, justify the pricing  and defend GW because it makes us feel better if the price has any justification, and continue to buy, and the price continues to rise.

Edit: It's been like this for 20+ years. I simply hope people will react to this new price hike so the community sets a sign.

I don’t know that many actually justify the prices, but due to circumstances maybe they have no choice?

example, I play almost exclusively in a gw store and at a store managers house. For me, 3rd party or 3D printed models aren’t really an option, so I either have to accept the prices or leave the hobby. I will complain about the prices anytime that conversation comes up though, but I can’t ‘send gw a message’ through not buying their stuff.

I do however buy my books almost exclusively in digital format because they’re usually half the price 

[Bombort]

Regardless of the fact that price discussions usually don't lead to anything good, we have to admit one thing for GW.

I don't know of any other manufacturer that offers its players a platform to play like GW does. More than 500 shops around the world cost a lot of money that other manufacturers don't have to factor into their prices. Anyway, the price jump for these giants is probably too expensive for me.

Edited October 6, 2020 by Bombort

[JackStreicher]

10 minutes ago, Joseph Mackay said:

I don’t know that many actually justify the prices, but due to circumstances maybe they have no choice?

example, I play almost exclusively in a gw store and at a store managers house. For me, 3rd party or 3D printed models aren’t really an option, so I either have to accept the prices or leave the hobby. I will complain about the prices anytime that conversation comes up though, but I can’t ‘send gw a message’ through not buying their stuff.

I do however buy my books almost exclusively in digital format because they’re usually half the price 

It's the same around here. Yet if you don't show that you are not willing to pay the prices, they'll continue to increase and you'll be worse off in the future than you are now.
So you should stop buying from GW directly or from independant stores and instead scour eBay or other platforms for models (it's way cheaper anyways) ^^

 

Edit: Sadly online petitions are useless. The best we could do would be to create attention (Last Week Tonight?) so GW is forced to make a statement or finally reduce the prices to being reasonable. (It's quite interesting that GW's prices could be seen as price gauging by german law...) XD well..
 

Edited October 6, 2020 by JackStreicher

[Still-young]

5 minutes ago, Joseph Mackay said:

I don’t know that many actually justify the prices, but due to circumstances maybe they have no choice?

example, I play almost exclusively in a gw store and at a store managers house. For me, 3rd party or 3D printed models aren’t really an option, so I either have to accept the prices or leave the hobby. I will complain about the prices anytime that conversation comes up though, but I can’t ‘send gw a message’ through not buying their stuff.

I do however buy my books almost exclusively in digital format because they’re usually half the price 

Not anymore. The new 40k codexes you can only buy as a physical copy, and they have a code for the digital copy in them. 

[Beastmaster]

7 minutes ago, plavski said:

They don't have to do so much R&D and expansion for the next few years of models, books, and ancillary stuff. Designing new box games takes money and everyone loves box games. GW crank out content like nobodies business and they are always pushing new things and building entirely new ways to play with toy soldiers. That stuff has to get funded by something. They don't live paycheck to paycheck.

Ultimately, don't we all have enough armies already? New players have loads of cost effective ways into the hobby already; this SoB release isn't for them. It's for people who can afford to throw down the big bucks for yet another army or to add to their existing and already paid for army. If it's too expensive, it's too expensive. Take your hobby bucks elsewhere. Sigmar knows there's enough content in this game already!

The cost effective ways are the older armies/units at the moment. You know, the ones that are slowly phased out/replaced. What will happen then?

[Joseph Mackay]

1 minute ago, Still-young said:

Not anymore. The new 40k codexes you can only buy as a physical copy, and they have a code for the digital copy in them. 

Yes this is true, however the fact you didn’t previously receive the digital copy free with a physical book was a part of my objection to the price of books. Although they’ve just put up the price of the books to cover the loss of digital sales anyway 😂

I have very mixed opinions on 40K at the moment and how a lot of things seem to be about trying to get as much extra money as they can out of you for no real reason. So I’m watching closely but I’m probably dropping 40K at this point anyway 

[Still-young]

4 minutes ago, Joseph Mackay said:

Yes this is true, however the fact you didn’t previously receive the digital copy free with a physical book was a part of my objection to the price of books. Although they’ve just put up the price of the books to cover the loss of digital sales anyway 😂

I have very mixed opinions on 40K at the moment and how a lot of things seem to be about trying to get as much extra money as they can out of you for no real reason. So I’m watching closely but I’m probably dropping 40K at this point anyway 

You don’t even get a digital copy of the book, you just get access to the rules in their app, which I’ve heard very little good about, if I’m reading the article right. 
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/10/02/codes-in-your-codexes/

The trouble is, a lot of this stuff will most likely carry over to AoS 3 whenever we get that, if it does okay for them in 40k. 

[Still-young]

Anyway, today’s Rumour Engine. Looks cool, no clue what it is. 

[JackStreicher]

2 minutes ago, Still-young said:

Anyway, today’s Rumour Engine. Looks cool, no clue what it is. 

The chains look AoS-y. Shadows Aelves?

[Beliman]

Tyrannids maybe?

[plavski]

14 minutes ago, Beastmaster said:

The cost effective ways are the older armies/units at the moment. You know, the ones that are slowly phased out/replaced. What will happen then?

They release new Start Collectings and Battleboxes all the time with loads of savings. And Battleforces every christmas! And the core set boxes are crazy cheap for what you get. On many, many levels, it's never been more cost effective to get into wargaming. So many print rules for smaller force games, so much support for skirmish style gaming... There wasn't any of this in the Fantasy days that people harken back to. Sometimes I think people just intentionally ignore the massive amount of work GW do to keep the idea of tabletop wargaming alive and keep new blood coming into the hobby. I understand the desire to rag on them for expensive things being expensive, but barely anyone gives them credit for their cheap stuff being cheap.

[Joseph Mackay]

25 minutes ago, Beastmaster said:

The cost effective ways are the older armies/units at the moment. You know, the ones that are slowly phased out/replaced. What will happen then?

A lot of models need to be replaced though (Saurus for example, are an embarrassment compared to what the models could look like - see the Oldblood from the plastic Carnosaur or the Bloodbowl team). Unfortunately that comes with a price increase though.
 

I think part of the problem is that gw don’t actually conduct any sort of market research into what customers actually want. It’s been a long standing myth (coming from gw staff) that one factor in a kits price is how many of that kit a single person is likely to buy. Troops/Battleline are more likely to sell more kits than Elites. Where this myth falls apart is the change from fantasy to AoS. A lot of previously elite units became troops but are still priced as elites (Witch Elves, the 4 Dispossessed kits etc). Battleline If units are also generally priced as elites even though they’re just as likely to sell as much as regular troops. A recent example of this was Howling Banshees and Incubi in 40K, two previously resin/metal kits that people have been crying out for updated plastics for years. Gw released them at modern day elite pricing despite the fact it’s possible to build a whole army out of them. The number of models in the box was also an issue as I believe most people would want them in units of 10 rather than 5. However due to the prices those kits haven’t sold very well, and the message that sends to gw is ‘customers dont want plastic Aspect Warriors’ which is not true at all. But gw don’t care why the kit didn’t sell, just the fact it didn’t sell is enough for them to decide we don’t want the rest of them.

as for phasing out armies, that leads back to the whole copyright issues brought about by the chapter house lawsuit. I guess gw couldn’t drop everything all at once so have been phasing stuff out as they get new replacements ready

Edited October 6, 2020 by Joseph Mackay

[Beastmaster]

3 minutes ago, plavski said:

They release new Start Collectings and Battleboxes all the time with loads of savings. And Battleforces every christmas! And the core set boxes are crazy cheap for what you get. On many, many levels, it's never been more cost effective to get into wargaming. So many print rules for smaller force games, so much support for skirmish style gaming... There wasn't any of this in the Fantasy days that people harken back to. Sometimes I think people just intentionally ignore the massive amount of work GW do to keep the idea of tabletop wargaming alive and keep new blood coming into the hobby. I understand the desire to rag on them for expensive things being expensive, but barely anyone gives them credit for their cheap stuff being cheap.

You’re right on all points. Still doesn’t make the models of the two latest releases reasonably priced in my eyes.

[Neverchosen]

14 minutes ago, Still-young said:

Anyway, today’s Rumour Engine. Looks cool, no clue what it is. 

Xenomorphs!? 😮 

[Eulailah]

11 minutes ago, JackStreicher said:

The chains look AoS-y. Shadows Aelves?

Could be a chained monster, with its pointy tail prepared to attack anyone that gets close enough. Shadow Aelves sounds like a reasonable guess, I don't think that 'Nids.

[JackStreicher]

10 minutes ago, plavski said:

Sometimes I think people just intentionally ignore the massive amount of work GW do to keep the idea of tabletop wargaming alive and keep new blood coming into the hobby.

GW makes the most money off of newcomers.  That's the actual reason why they try to hook new people. GW is NOT your friend that wants to save your hobby at all.
 

Edited October 6, 2020 by JackStreicher

[The lord of murder]

13 minutes ago, Neverchosen said:

 

 

Edited October 6, 2020 by The lord of murder

[The lord of murder]

28 minutes ago, Still-young said:

Anyway, today’s Rumour Engine. Looks cool, no clue what it is. 

Avatar of Slaanesh?

[Enoby]

Kind of reminds me of this, which is from the contorted epitome. Would be cool to have a Slaanesh mortal release

[zilberfrid]

26 minutes ago, plavski said:

They release new Start Collectings and Battleboxes all the time with loads of savings. And Battleforces every christmas! And the core set boxes are crazy cheap for what you get. On many, many levels, it's never been more cost effective to get into wargaming. So many print rules for smaller force games, so much support for skirmish style gaming... There wasn't any of this in the Fantasy days that people harken back to. Sometimes I think people just intentionally ignore the massive amount of work GW do to keep the idea of tabletop wargaming alive and keep new blood coming into the hobby. I understand the desire to rag on them for expensive things being expensive, but barely anyone gives them credit for their cheap stuff being cheap.

I have managed to convert exactly 0 of my friends to GW's games, and 5 of them to wargaming in general.

Underworld was tried, but not deemed that interesting, AoS was deemed a bit too high of a barrier of entry (though I'll try again with providing three ME CoS armies at one point). I myself backed away from Necromunda due to its rules cost.

The idea of using their minis from old d&d characters in Frostgrave or Rangers of Shadowdeep was quite appealing, (though I still am the driving force in creating terrain, and we need lots). Funnily enough, except for the two male fighters, the entire Godsworn Hunt is now included the Ranger groups.

I do really like the sets that come with lots of bits, and sing high praise of the detail quality of some GW kits (though not the cheap ones like Guards and Handgunners). I also still need a big Kharadron ship, because they are awesome.

[michu]

29 minutes ago, JackStreicher said:

GW makes the most money off of newcomers.  That's the actual reason why they try to hook new people. GW is NOT your friend that wants to save your hobby at all.
 

I think that hooking new people is some kind of "saving a hobby" as without new players any game will die. A side effect of business operations but still.

@zilberfrid Have you tried establishing an escalation league? Each player buys 1 Start Collecting (most of them are circa 500 pts) and then slowly expand their army. Perfect for beginners.

[sandlemad]

51 minutes ago, plavski said:

They release new Start Collectings and Battleboxes all the time with loads of savings. And Battleforces every christmas! And the core set boxes are crazy cheap for what you get. On many, many levels, it's never been more cost effective to get into wargaming. So many print rules for smaller force games, so much support for skirmish style gaming... There wasn't any of this in the Fantasy days that people harken back to. Sometimes I think people just intentionally ignore the massive amount of work GW do to keep the idea of tabletop wargaming alive and keep new blood coming into the hobby. I understand the desire to rag on them for expensive things being expensive, but barely anyone gives them credit for their cheap stuff being cheap.

You're right about the support for the smaller games being better but that wasn't out of the goodness of their heart, it's because the lack of them was part of a number of factors which really hurt GW around the death of WHFB.

Like, I don't even mean it as a slight against them to say that as a company they are fundamentally incapable of doing anything that is not profit-oriented. That's by design and any analysis of their actions that doesn't have that front and centre is pointless. They want new blood because that's new customers, same as any business. That massive amount of work is specifically to make the company money, as obvious as it sounds, and they deserve zero credit for it. Their reward is sales, nothing more. Sounds trite but they're not your friend, they're really not.

Also GW doesn't keep the idea of TT wargaming alive, they keep the idea of "the GW hobby" alive. There's a difference. They're the biggest and most powerful player in the field but that doesn't mean anything, any more than Disney being the biggest player in their field(s) deserving praise for keeping... whatever, film alive.

58 minutes ago, Still-young said:

Anyway, today’s Rumour Engine. Looks cool, no clue what it is. 

See now those top ridge scales really look like tyranid scales. Having them on the sides as well though, that's not a feature of any tyranid models I've seen. And the chain... I dunno. Shadow elves seems as good a guess as any.

Edited October 6, 2020 by sandlemad

[The Brotherhood of Necros]

Could it be a gribbly from the deep for Idoneth?