AoS 2 - Hedonites of Slaanesh Discussion

[Yoid]

I've Seen 2 battle reports so far of new Daemons of Slaanesh VS new Daughters of Khaine. It went terrible for Slaanesh both times.

Lists were pretty similar (some Keepers, some Chariots (with some herlads and exalteds), some Seekers, some Hellstriders, and lots of Demonettes. VS big unit of mele melusai + big unit of ranged melusai + one unit of witch aelves, + cauldrons + medusa + Morathi)

In both matches every DoK unit killed around double their point cost in models in just two turns wiping Slaaanesh army. Slaanesh attacks were really bland and killed around 300pts of the DoK army before being wiped out, even when summoning 30 more Daemonettes to the table by turn 2.

Then at the end of the battle reports both players talked about everything important in DoK going down 10 to 40 pts, specially heroes, while everything in Slaanesh going up 10 to 40 pts, specially cavalry and heroes, and Keepers not working at the current point value.

As a good follower of slaanesh i feel jealous of what they got, it seems like we have the short stick in this double battletome release.

Of course we still got to see the mortals in play, but im feeling like they aren't gonna help too much, we got the high prices and not so good buffs that maybe make our units hit 1.5x harder, while they got price decreases and better buffs to turn the units into real blenders that hit 3x harder.

[Poryague]

1 hour ago, Yoid said:

I've Seen 2 battle reports so far of new Daemons of Slaanesh VS new Daughters of Khaine. It went terrible for Slaanesh both times.

Lists were pretty similar (some Keepers, some Chariots (with some herlads and exalteds), some Seekers, some Hellstriders, and lots of Demonettes. VS big unit of mele melusai + big unit of ranged melusai + one unit of witch aelves, + cauldrons + medusa + Morathi)

In both matches every DoK unit killed around double their point cost in models in just two turns wiping Slaaanesh army. Slaanesh attacks were really bland and killed around 300pts of the DoK army before being wiped out, even when summoning 30 more Daemonettes to the table by turn 2.

Then at the end of the battle reports both players talked about everything important in DoK going down 10 to 40 pts, specially heroes, while everything in Slaanesh going up 10 to 40 pts, specially cavalry and heroes, and Keepers not working at the current point value.

As a good follower of slaanesh i feel jealous of what they got, it seems like we have the short stick in this double battletome release.

Of course we still got to see the mortals in play, but im feeling like they aren't gonna help too much, we got the high prices and not so good buffs that maybe make our units hit 1.5x harder, while they got price decreases and better buffs to turn the units into real blenders that hit 3x harder.

Not surprising dok are a very synergistic army. The units and aligience abilities  feed of eachother very well and is very cohesive 

Slaanesh not so much there are interesting builds that could be done but points will hamper things. 

[Silphid]

Pondering the following list; would appreciate oponions as I am new to Hedonites (My mains being DoK, skaven & Sylvaneth)

Lurid Haze Host

Glutos

Lord of Pain

Syll'Esske

3x Blissbarb Archers

2x Fiends

2x Slickblade Seekers

The intent is to surprise attack using Lurid's ability Glutos, Fiends, and LoP if I get a lucky D3 roll. My assumption is that Glutos supported by Fiends in the opponent'S backfield should create a significant/survivable threat.

Syll'Esske , archers and slickblades march up the board to reinforce Glutos attack. Summoning is obviously meant to fill holes as my opponent tears them apart

 

What are your thoughts on such an approach for a list? (no battalions Gasp!)

[Envyus]

5 hours ago, AngryPanda said:

A lot of stuff

I think you misunderstood how Depravity works. You get a Depravity point at the end of battleshock for each unit that has lost a wound or lost a model. If they were wiped out, you won't get any depravity, and no matter how many units are hurt you still only get 1 a turn for each unit.

This I think also changes how one would use the Blissbarb archers. MSU so you can have them target as many units in the back as you can to generate extra depravity. 

[jackmcmahon]

Ok, ok, bear w me...

1 or 2 units of Censor bearer allies. Surround them with 12 chaos spawn.

Poisons during combat so if you go second you start off summoning a turn early. Put out 30 daemonettes every turn.

[JackStreicher]

Bring in slaves to darkness (msu) and hurt them with your own endless spell: tada 4-8 DP in an Instant 

[swarmofseals]

Looking at StD units has me wondering about Chaos Warriors either in MSU or blocks of 15-20. They are so defensively efficient (especially at 10+ models). Should be able to hold up most enemies whilst grinding out DP.

Syl'Esske is definitely interesting now and I might well consider taking them over a Bladebringer on Exalted Chariot. I think it'll be tricky to trigger the +1H/+1W but even without it and without Deadly Symbiosis their offensive efficiency is already better than the other hero options.

Also don't forget about allied Be'lakor. Be'lakor remains really good, and he fits perfectly into the delay and grind strategy.

[swarmofseals]

7 minutes ago, jackmcmahon said:

Ok, ok, bear w me...

1 or 2 units of Censor bearer allies. Surround them with 12 chaos spawn.

Poisons during combat so if you go second you start off summoning a turn early. Put out 30 daemonettes every turn.

Ohh that's clever, and it even works because they are Nurgle. Only triggers on a 4+ though, but it should still turbo charge your DP generation. That's a lot of points worth of Chaos Spawn though. Not sure it's worth spending 660 points on absolute garbage in order to get an extra 330 points of summons XD. But I don't think it's necessary to fully commit to Chaos Spawn. Could just as easily tank the wounds on your regular units, or use somewhat useful StD or BoC units for MSU.

[jackmcmahon]

It would put you at 330pts per turn (6 on enemy turn, 6 on your turn with the 4+) of course youll get some naturally so maybe just build a core then fill in remaining pts w a little engine the size of your liking.  Or like you said, just have them in a regular army adding some value. 60 pts is nothing for what they'd add over the game. Lets say they are between two backline heroes all game. Hit one of them during opponenents turn, one during urs. 2pts per round, 10 pts per game. Maybe on turn one they hit some extra units before they charge up. 330 pts for 60 investment.

[JackStreicher]

46 minutes ago, swarmofseals said:

Looking at StD units has me wondering about Chaos Warriors either in MSU or blocks of 15-20. They are so defensively efficient (especially at 10+ models). Should be able to hold up most enemies whilst grinding out DP.

Syl'Esske is definitely interesting now and I might well consider taking them over a Bladebringer on Exalted Chariot. I think it'll be tricky to trigger the +1H/+1W but even without it and without Deadly Symbiosis their offensive efficiency is already better than the other hero options.

Also don't forget about allied Be'lakor. Be'lakor remains really good, and he fits perfectly into the delay and grind strategy.

Syll‘esk and his host + S2D looks juicy

[Yokai]

9 hours ago, Benkei said:

Somehow I don't remember the fluff where the elegant and decadent warriors of Slaanesh are just average but make up for it summoning demons. Sad to see Sigvald being mediocre again but happy our Archers and Slickblades are at least good if expensive af

Well, if each and every army matched their fluff everyone would be invincible, right? There need to be some semblance of gameplay balance first and foremost.

Granted, some units are probably overcosted even when considering the summoning powers, but let's see how they perform over a few games first. There is already some valuable information given in this discussion by people playing, so progress is being made!

[Juicy]

3 hours ago, Poryague said:

Not surprising dok are a very synergistic army. The units and aligience abilities  feed of eachother very well and is very cohesive 

Slaanesh not so much there are interesting builds that could be done but points will hamper things. 

I did watch both battlereports but lets be real here. Both battlereports where with old slaanesh lists in mind.. so doesn’t really say anything. Both times the list wasnt really competitive minded where the dok lists where just flat out stronger. When i looked at both list entrys i already knew that dok got a walk in the park purely because of list construction. Just give it some time and we see more and better slaanesh lists.

[JackStreicher]

So, the Blissbarb Seekers are basically  Melusai trading +1 shot for -1 to hit. (Edit: and mortals on wound rolls)

Is there a way to make them reroll hits? If so they can participate in the shooting meta big time! Imo the Seekers might be the best new units.

Edited February 15, 2021 by JackStreicher

[Enoby]

6 hours ago, Yoid said:

I've Seen 2 battle reports so far of new Daemons of Slaanesh VS new Daughters of Khaine. It went terrible for Slaanesh both times.

Lists were pretty similar (some Keepers, some Chariots (with some herlads and exalteds), some Seekers, some Hellstriders, and lots of Demonettes. VS big unit of mele melusai + big unit of ranged melusai + one unit of witch aelves, + cauldrons + medusa + Morathi)

In both matches every DoK unit killed around double their point cost in models in just two turns wiping Slaaanesh army. Slaanesh attacks were really bland and killed around 300pts of the DoK army before being wiped out, even when summoning 30 more Daemonettes to the table by turn 2.

Then at the end of the battle reports both players talked about everything important in DoK going down 10 to 40 pts, specially heroes, while everything in Slaanesh going up 10 to 40 pts, specially cavalry and heroes, and Keepers not working at the current point value.

As a good follower of slaanesh i feel jealous of what they got, it seems like we have the short stick in this double battletome release.

Of course we still got to see the mortals in play, but im feeling like they aren't gonna help too much, we got the high prices and not so good buffs that maybe make our units hit 1.5x harder, while they got price decreases and better buffs to turn the units into real blenders that hit 3x harder.

I think we watched the same report and, likely due to inexperience, both Slaanesh players were pretty poor. One of them ran everything forward and just hoped daemonettes could tank hits from two very killy units and they also forgot Euphoric Killers existed for half the units; they played them more like Ironjawz and didn't use any finesse or even really a game plan, whereas the DoK player at least had combos in mind.

The second one was MWG and I think he said he never played them just theory crafted, and so he used a list that would have worked better last battletome. There was some bad luck here too with the sheer amount of mortal wounds at range going into his keeper, but some of his units seemed to be there for no real reason, and he had nothing to screen. 

Watching both of these did reaffirm my belief that the seeker cavalcade with Slickblades is going to be super super useful. We need to play like a finesse army - more like we were pre first battletome, for all five people who played Slaanesh then

[SorryLizard]

3 hours ago, jackmcmahon said:

Ok, ok, bear w me...

1 or 2 units of Censor bearer allies. Surround them with 12 chaos spawn.

Poisons during combat so if you go second you start off summoning a turn early. Put out 30 daemonettes every turn.

Same trick as with the Fomoroid Crusher+Spawn.

The Crusher damages terrain. All units within 6 inches of terrain take d3 mortals on a 3+.

Fomoroid+3 spawn ~300pts. Hide at the back/screen enemy teleports/etc. and generate 3-4 DP a turn. Generates DP even if you go first and they can do it without needing anything rom your enemy to let it start working.

[whispersofblood]

So. I've spent the weekend thinking, reading and listening to various podcasters. Here are my thoughts on this episode of the roulette wheel that is battletombs.

I think the media on this release was horrible, which didn't help set the expectations of customers and reviewers. I think besides the strong/weak discussion there is a question of accessibility. I don't think the HoS book is very accessible. 

There is a mappable playstyle, it's just hidden beneath layers of units which don't seem well suited but it's there. The book is going to be contentious for a long time similar to LRL there are going to be some players who do quite well and many who do quite poorly.

Rob @ HWG said on stream they are worse Ironjawz. And, he is 100% correct if you play this army like am army that wins the game by choosing targets and charging. It will be quite poor for you: the units just aren't packing an IJ level of punch or the level of combat tricks you would need to pull that off.

The faction is a movement heavy army which will require a lot of delicate precision(lol) to take advantage of. Now I can completely understand that isn't what a lot of players wanted, nor the experience they enjoy or are even capable of pulling off. But, it seems that is what GW think HoS should be doing.

I'll post a proof of concept list shortly but I just wanted to get some thoughts down first. 

[JackStreicher]

9 minutes ago, whispersofblood said:

GW think HoS should be doing.

You suggest that someone actually put a lot of thought into it. Doubt it XD we'Re talking about GW rules here: Someone had an idea, wrote down the rules and they went pretty much straight to print. That doesn't even mean that this idea was about mechanics, combos or a way to play.

We as players then try to figure out how you can play the amry (if at all).

[Juicy]

14 minutes ago, whispersofblood said:

So. I've spent the weekend thinking, reading and listening to various podcasters. Here are my thoughts on this episode of the roulette wheel that is battletombs.

I think the media on this release was horrible, which didn't help set the expectations of customers and reviewers. I think besides the strong/weak discussion there is a question of accessibility. I don't think the HoS book is very accessible. 

There is a mappable playstyle, it's just hidden beneath layers of units which don't seem well suited but it's there. The book is going to be contentious for a long time similar to LRL there are going to be some players who do quite well and many who do quite poorly.

Rob @ HWG said on stream they are worse Ironjawz. And, he is 100% correct if you play this army like am army that wins the game by choosing targets and charging. It will be quite poor for you: the units just aren't packing an IJ level of punch or the level of combat tricks you would need to pull that off.

The faction is a movement heavy army which will require a lot of delicate precision(lol) to take advantage of. Now I can completely understand that isn't what a lot of players wanted, nor the experience they enjoy or are even capable of pulling off. But, it seems that is what GW think HoS should be doing.

I'll post a proof of concept list shortly but I just wanted to get some thoughts down first. 

ill agree, i dont think this army is point click delete but more an army that engages on flanks and try to be engaged while not getting deleted or delete the enemy unit. But engage long enough to send more body's. I dont think aos has an army that plays like the new slaanesh does. It feels as a whole new concept. Im not sure its strong and its sure not an easy army to master. As far as i can see there is no insta win button here. Where DOK is such an easy army to play and an easy army to do good with i think slaanesh is an army that you need a lot of games with the understand what it can do.

[jackmcmahon]

25 minutes ago, SorryLizard said:

Same trick as with the Fomoroid Crusher+Spawn.

The Crusher damages terrain. All units within 6 inches of terrain take d3 mortals on a 3+.

Fomoroid+3 spawn ~300pts. Hide at the back/screen enemy teleports/etc. and generate 3-4 DP a turn. Generates DP even if you go first and they can do it without needing anything rom your enemy to let it start working.

Ah, nice! I like this too because i have 7 fomoroids already and no censer bearers lol. 

So pros of crusher: 

Bigger area of affect

Better chance of going off

Happens before summoning

Fits thematically with StD slaanesh

Pros of censer:

Bigger area of models

Only does 1 damage

Happens on both turns

Less points

Fits thematically with my favorite slaanesh ally: bloab in fuzzy handcuffs

[Third]

 

33 minutes ago, Enoby said:

Watching both of these did reaffirm my belief that the seeker cavalcade with Slickblades is going to be super super useful. We need to play like a finesse army - more like we were pre first battletome, for all five people who played Slaanesh then

I was reaffirmed that both channels are for the casual audience only, and nice entertainment for when you hobby. They had no clue what they where doing playing poorly with poor lists and forgetting a ton of rules.. That should not be the basis for a discussion on if the book is strong/fine/fun or anything even remotely close..

 

[Sorrow]

9 hours ago, Jaskier said:

Also, yes, can we please hold off on sending rules feedback about an army none of us have actually played any proper games or really got to grips with yet? If the people who complained about Seraphon and KO at release (and before you try to change history, there were loads) did the same, what kind of message would that have sent to GW? Look where those armies are now. Our faction mechanics have been completely redesigned, and our units are obviously priced with the summoning changes in mind. Summoning is Slaanesh' main mechanic, whether we like it or not, so trying to argue that our units shouldn't be priced with it in mind is just foolhardy. 

You want my advice, having seen this kind of pessimism for every single new book GW has released for the past 10 years I've been playing competitively? Wait. Play a bunch of games. Try things. You'll find - as is almost always the case - that most of your pessimism is unjustified. 

I have placed purely out of love for Slaanesh and aesthetics on new models, a rather larger order. 

I have zero intention of sending any feedback before I have at least 30 games.

18 items,  652.50£

 

Edited February 15, 2021 by Sorrow

[JackStreicher]

3 minutes ago, Sorrow said:

652.50£

Oh boy! That will be a LOT to paint!

[Feii]

20 minutes ago, whispersofblood said:

So. I've spent the weekend thinking, reading and listening to various podcasters. Here are my thoughts on this episode of the roulette wheel that is battletombs.

I think the media on this release was horrible, which didn't help set the expectations of customers and reviewers. I think besides the strong/weak discussion there is a question of accessibility. I don't think the HoS book is very accessible. 

There is a mappable playstyle, it's just hidden beneath layers of units which don't seem well suited but it's there. The book is going to be contentious for a long time similar to LRL there are going to be some players who do quite well and many who do quite poorly.

Rob @ HWG said on stream they are worse Ironjawz. And, he is 100% correct if you play this army like am army that wins the game by choosing targets and charging. It will be quite poor for you: the units just aren't packing an IJ level of punch or the level of combat tricks you would need to pull that off.

The faction is a movement heavy army which will require a lot of delicate precision(lol) to take advantage of. Now I can completely understand that isn't what a lot of players wanted, nor the experience they enjoy or are even capable of pulling off. But, it seems that is what GW think HoS should be doing.

I'll post a proof of concept list shortly but I just wanted to get some thoughts down first. 

People who wrote the book should feel bad. The same goes for people who slap stats on the models. There is some serious disconnect with them and their game.

Usually a great design is when even if you fail you can get a dopamine kick (blood tithe) but this book often times just kicks you donw - You mean that by playing the Invaders and endangering 3 of my generals I can get as much depravity points as for using just 1 of them?If you dont charge into the fray with your super slow sorcerer you are losing on the efficiency. Who wrote those?

 Slaanesh is my favourite God and there is a massive unexplored design space (especially in the mortals part of the faction) where is the self mortal wounding yourself in order to gain benefits? There could be tons of interesting mechanics for doing that then juggling those self inflcited wounds with lords shuch as Lord of pain etc. 

Any mechanic that would allow you to build up, bath into the excess and empower the mortals. Make the hosts support just your mortals if they want to play pure mortal factions.

More interesting spell lores - It has been 30 years of 
slaaneshi WHFB and we dont have an iconic slaaneshi spell (imo)

Making your summoningmechanic  the core of the army makes this army less accesible and limits the playstyles. How is a mechanic that discourages you from fully finishing units if you can (and if you do you get punished by getting no depravity points) thus leading into some feel bad moments when the not dead unit strikes back make sense?

Whoever wrote this book does not understand player psychology whatsoever. Implictly punishing players for making decisions is one of the worst things you can do. I feel bad for whoever is gonna be their next book. 

[whispersofblood]

24 minutes ago, JackStreicher said:

You suggest that someone actually put a lot of thought into it. Doubt it XD we'Re talking about GW rules here: Someone had an idea, wrote down the rules and they went pretty much straight to print. That doesn't even mean that this idea was about mechanics, combos or a way to play.

We as players then try to figure out how you can play the amry (if at all).

If there is one thing GW does consitently well is give factions an identity. The reality is that sometimes it doesn't hit the right cord with people who want to buy those models. Could it be better and clearer? Yeah 100%, this book is not clear on what you need to be doing to be successful. Take for example Depravity and summoning. You probably only need to summon twice with this army, right after you engage, and again in the clean up turns. You probably want some extra to summon an emergency KoS though. But, as most gamers do we look to maximize the effects of any rule we are given (not to say that is wrong), but there isn't very good sign posting. 

 

5 minutes ago, Feii said:

People who wrote the book should feel bad. The same goes for people who slap stats on the models. There is some serious disconnect with them and their game.

Usually a great design is when even if you fail you can get a dopamine kick (blood tithe) but this book often times just kicks you donw - You mean that by playing the Invaders and endangering 3 of my generals I can get as much depravity points as for using just 1 of them?If you dont charge into the fray with your super slow sorcerer you are losing on the efficiency. Who wrote those?

 Slaanesh is my favourite God and there is a massive unexplored design space (especially in the mortals part of the faction) where is the self mortal wounding yourself in order to gain benefits? There could be tons of interesting mechanics for doing that then juggling those self inflcited wounds with lords shuch as Lord of pain etc. 

Any mechanic that would allow you to build up, bath into the excess and empower the mortals. Make the hosts support just your mortals if they want to play pure mortal factions.

More interesting spell lores - It has been 30 years of 
slaaneshi WHFB and we dont have an iconic slaaneshi spell (imo)

Making your summoningmechanic  the core of the army makes this army less accesible and limits the playstyles. How is a mechanic that discourages you from fully finishing units if you can (and if you do you get punished by getting no depravity points) thus leading into some feel bad moments when the not dead unit strikes back make sense?

Whoever wrote this book does not understand player psychology whatsoever. Implictly punishing players for making decisions is one of the worst things you can do. I feel bad for whoever is gonna be their next book. 

@Feii What you are describing is an expectation problem, not a rules problem, lets be careful not to conflate the two. S2D are a perfect example of this, I still think the 2 best lists in that book haven't been used in the mainstream yet. But those list are so different from what the average S2D player would imagine that they basically do not exist even though the rules for it are there.

You bring up a good point with player psychology. I think its reasonable to say that most people on these sorts of platforms are Timmy/Spike Hybrids, and the most vocal tend towards the Spike side not the Timmy side. Spike can't stand the idea of losing when he believes he should have won and looks outward. Personally I'm a Johnny/Spike, I enjoy winning my way, but its honed to the point where I expect to win 85%+ of my matches, and am unhappy with myself when I lose, and look inward.

This HoS book is a horrible ruleset for a Timmy/Spike; though there is a list for that profile which I'll post in a bit. Because this faction seems to rely on adhering so close to an esoteric playstyle to be successful, if you can't pull it off its not checking either box. It's not impressive, loud and fun, nor is it a consistent winner because the skill cap is so high.

This is great news if you are a Johnny or tend more strongly towards your johnny side in a hybrid, as you are going to be playing the game in a way that is very off meta. 

If you think you are a Spike or are positively correlated with Spike you should run, and just wait for the next shiny models to catch your eye. This book will make you extremely unhappy, just leave it alone.

[Enoby]

Thinking about what @whispersofblood said, here's a bit of a story time from long ago where Slaanesh didn't even have summoning back in the days of AoS 1. Where Hellstriders gave -1 to hit and were probably the most useful unit in the army. Before fiends had new models and were much worse than they are now. 

During this time, Slaanesh was one of th most unpopular AoS armies and there was pretty much no discussion on how it should be played. At this time, I played Slaanesh for the plot after trying Death (no Legions of Nagash at this time) and Ironjawz and not enjoying either of them. I spent a while theory crafting, and eventually bought my first Slaanesh list. I remember there were a lot of daemonettes, some Hellstriders, a chariot from the Start Collecting, and a Keeper of Secrets (the little midget one). 

Excited to try my new list, never playing a truly fast army before, I had my first game against Stormcast. I excitedly pushed my army forward, charged everything and did some decent damage. Daemonettes went first, from what I remember, and did considerable damage to the Stormcast's liberator line. Then the Stormcast struck back into my keeper, which was left on very low wounds. Hellstriders, to be expected, did nothing. The weakened keeper went again, did a little bit of damage, and died to a counter attack from (I think) a Lord Relictor. The Hellstriders died (someone probably sneezed on them too hard), and by the end of the second round I was on about 30 daemonettes left against the majority of a Stormcast army. 

I lost badly. Really badly. And it was it was 100% my fault. 

I was disheartened to say the least.

I tried mixing around some units, using some chaos chosen for more of a tanky hammer and trying some more daemonettes. I went against Moonclan (not Gloomspite) and after a mangler destroyed my chosen, and my daemonettes got locked out of combat with a -1 to hit from netters, I lost again. 

At this point I was convinced Slaanesh was rubbish, and it was a bit of a joke amongst the gaming group that I was basically handicapping myself for playing the army. 

But at this point, I'd bought in so I may as well persevere. The army did not do good damage and had absolutely no survivability. Well, except Hellstriders giving -1 to hit. So I tried leaning into this, and suddenly I realised that I could shut pretty much all Moonclan down by putting them on -1 to hit rr6s to hit against daemonettes (making it so 1/36 hits actually hit). Squigs suffered similarly and it then became down to trying to kill the mangler squig. I played focussed on debuffs for a month or so, and won more games, but once the Hellstriders died my army did too.

Then a second realisation came over me - Slaanesh had the best command trait in the game after reading what it did properly. It allowed pile in from 6" away, and combined with the KoS's command ability you could have a keeper that rarely got hit in combat, could retreat and pile in, and importantly could shimmy 12" with pile ins. What was once a joke of a greater daemon became something to be feared. 

And then the Exalted Keepers rules were updated and, combined with the command trait and its CA, it was an absolute blender. Any units that weren't protected by two screens were up for annihilation. Suddenly, the laughable Slaanesh list became one of the most feared in the shop. There was still counterplay (charging the Exhalted Keeper or forcing its pile in in a different direction), but it was a force to be reckoned with. It was incredibly fun to play and when the new Fiends came out in W&R, I got 6 of them. Using fiends, Hellstriders, and a EKoS, I managed to take a local tournament of about 20 people. Making a mistake would wipe me out but people weren't prepared for Slaanesh or it's shenanigans.

And then the Battletome came out, and the best way to play changed dramatically. You could now rely on just charging everything into combat; using 3 keepers, the Locus of Diversion, and a totally busted depravity points system we went from being a finesse army to being a blunt instrument. Getting charged didn't matter because on a 2+ they didn't attack. Getting killed didn't matter because you produced 13 DP from a death. Support units? Nah, only hordes of Keepers pouring forth from the Realm of Chaos as the 15 Hellstriders I brought for battleline sat by and watched. 

During this time, I did win more. But they weren't fun games for me or my opponent, they were just the same thing over and over with the exact same lists summoning the exact same things. We were offensively overpowered - laughably so, to the point where my gaming group just refused to play against any KoS. At this point, I basically just made a Depraved Drove list or used Slaves to Darkness. It was worse, but it was more fun for everyone because I had to think about my actions. Unfortunately it still didn't sit right because it felt like the book was built around a KoS. 

I think that's why I'm so excited for this book. No, it probably won't be as OP as the last one, but it reminds me a lot of the prebattletome Slaanesh with more tricks. Playing in ways people didn't expect rather than just kicking them in the head with multiple KoSs made for interesting games and interesting lists at both a casual and competitive level. I much prefer the gameplay side of winning; that is to say, I enjoy winning because I was a better player compared to winning because my book is broken. I think this new book offers gameplay opportunity.