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Overread

Current State of the Armies

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46 minutes ago, Overread said:

Updated the first post to reflect the news revealed here:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/02/03/pre-order-preview-carrion-empire-and-genestealer-cults/

 

Tomes, Spells and terrain for Flesheater Courts and Skaven! 

This update just helps solidify the path GW is taking with releasing their battletomes, which imo is probably the best and most efficient way forward. Here's to hoping by end of year or start of next year we'll have even more combined army tome releases.

One of thing I think people aren't fully pointing out is the fact that aside from SCE the new FEC is the first ever updated battletome from the Kirby era AoS 1.0 days. This is now solid proof that GW is willing to fully update the older battletomes, something we as a community have been hoping for but never really had any evidence of it actually happening until now.

The future looks bright for AoS, let's just hope the momentum of releases keeps going.

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Updated the listing, moved the removed armies to their own section and added the date for Khorne. Any info on updated rumours would be good to know. 

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I would second the comment from @Forrix that the categorisation of Battletomes needs slightly more refinement.

There is a world of difference between the Ironjawz Battletome and the Bonesplitterz Battletome for example.  You are currently classifying Bonesplitterz as "Old" which is incorrect by your own definition, because it does have Allegiance Abilities.

There were essentially 3 eras:

BINOs: Battletome In Name Only.  Essentially a collection of Warscrolls and Lore.  Includes some Batallions, but comes with no Allegiance Abilities, no spell lore, no chapter tactics, no artefacts, no prayer lore, no mount traits, no nothing.  Examples: Ironjawz, Fyreslayers, Seraphon.

AOS 1 Battletomes: A clear demarcation after the original GH dropped, and Sylvaneth and Bonesplitterz books came out shortly afterwards.  Allegiance Abilities and artefacts were introduced.  There is a sliding scale and evolution within this, so for example Bonesplitterz have only 6 spells and 12 artefacts, whereas Tzeentch has page after page after page of goodies.  KO came with chapter tactics which was the first time they had been seen in AOS, and so on.  (Important to note that because BCR and KO are both considered weak currently, that does not make their Battletomes "old": they do have Allegiance Abilities and artefacts.  They are just weaker AOS 1 Battletomes, not old in the sense that Ironjawz is old.  They do actually contain some free rules, they're just poor quality compared to some other books from around that time or later).  Examples: Bonesplitterz, Sylvaneth, Tzeentch.

AOS 2 Battletomes: Nurgle onwards.  Designed with AOS 2nd ed and things like free summoning in mind.  Examples: Gloomspite Gits, DOK, FEC.

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I think it's also flagging up for the non-Battletome armies which have been given GH Allegiance Abilities and which have not.

So Slaanesh and Wanderers do have their own free rules for example, whereas Gutbusters have been left out. 

Likewise Greenskinz and Gitmob - although as you noted, they have been silently deleted from the webstore, and in the absence of any actual communication on the matter we therefore have to assume GW will be removing them from Matched Play.

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11 hours ago, PlasticCraic said:

AOS 2 Battletomes: Nurgle onwards.  Designed with AOS 2nd ed and things like free summoning in mind.  Examples: Gloomspite Gits, DOK, FEC.

Im really sure that some of them were written with AoS 3.0 on mind (mainly Gloomspite, skaventide and FEC). Don't know why, but their rules seems to have something more behind them.

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On 3/14/2019 at 11:31 AM, Beliman said:

Im really sure that some of them were written with AoS 3.0 on mind (mainly Gloomspite, skaventide and FEC). Don't know why, but their rules seems to have something more behind them.

I can only speak for Gloomspite and Skaven, to which I agree with your statement. They have a different feel to them entirely, and are more consistent with what I imagine AOS3 to be. There will be changes, for sure, but the overall focus on the "wholly within" type of stuff, and intended keyword interactions is pretty on point right now. Also the way artifacts, command traits and spells are handled in Skaventide and Gloomspite. Don't know if FEC does it similarly. 

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The current state of Blades of Khorne:
image.png.cb979451c698804a498a4a9a0da384a4.png

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Thread updated. I've added the new tomes for both Fyreslayers and Hosts of Slaanesh as well as a model warning for the resin models in Slaanesh that will likely go out of production soon as well as the likely removal of the duel pack Wrath and Rapture. I've also added a count showing the current numerical status of tomes and its interesting to note

 

No Battletome - 6
Old Battletome - 8
2.0 compatible Battletome - 15

Based on this we are JUST over half way for all current armies in terms of having updated 2.0 Battletomes! Note that this number does not include possible new armies (eg we are well aware that here are likely two new aelven armies to come). It also combines most of the Aelves into one listing (we've no idea what will happen to them).

In addition there's a few armies that are still likely to be combined into a single battletome - eg Slaves to Darkness and Everchosen. 

As of right now

Death is complete with all Battletomes;

Chaos is nearly complete with Tzeentch likely being just spells and unique terrain update; slaves and everchosen likely to be rolled into one single release

Destruction is still the least represented Grand Alliance; though there's potential that they might combine gutbusters and beastclaws; and also the two ork factions (much like Skaven and Gloomspite Gitz were combined releases). However they could also remain stand-alone forces. Either way Destruction is still lagging behind the others.

Order is where the bulk of releases are, but a good amount of that is tangled with Aelves and GW still hasn't given us an idea what they are doing with them. 

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Note for any Slaanesh and Khorne players - the pre-release prices for Slaanesh show that the two new models in Wrath and Rapture duel box are going up for individual sale as well. This means its all coming in one big pre-release wave this coming weekend. As a result its very likely that Wrath and Rapture is totally out of production and will now only sell on remaining stock. With both armies now equipped with tomes its likely that stock will run out reasonably to very fast. So if you want them get a hold of them now. It's a great saving and even if you don't want the "other side" it should prove easy to sell half of it off. 

 

Also remember any metal/finecast models for Slaanesh are likely to go out of production without warning. Keeper of Secrets in metal is already gone in several territories (as expected). The Masque is also a pretty much guaranteed to be gone model. The Hero on mount and herald have a big questionmark over them. The herald has appeared in photos of armies in community posts on the GW site and there's no direct replacement for it in the line up so it could be hanging around; whilst the lord on mount has appeared in some big artwork, but that's no guarantee it will remain.

The lord on foot nothing has been heard of so could also vanish. 

 

Basically if its metal or finecast and you really want it best to grab a copy now if you can; in my experience finecast stuff doesn't turn up as much on ebay whilst metal tends to quickly climb in value once its no longer produced. 

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Hi Overread, maybe worth a mention that Gitmob are in the same position as Greenskinz?

No Allegiance Abilities, no Battletome, model range removed from sale.

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'Aelves' (High Elf, Dark Elf) and 'Wanderers' - high chance of being squatted.

'Disposessed' - medium chance of being squatted.

'Free People' - low chance of being squatted, but high chance of overhaul.

 

2019 seems to be the year of the 2.0 battle tome. If any armies still don't have books by 1 Jan 2020 then I reckon they're getting the choppa.

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Posted (edited)

Edit: double posted. Admin please delete?

Edited by 123lac

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53 minutes ago, 123lac said:

'Aelves' (High Elf, Dark Elf) and 'Wanderers' - high chance of being squatted.

'Disposessed' - medium chance of being squatted.

'Free People' - low chance of being squatted, but high chance of overhaul.

 

2019 seems to be the year of the 2.0 battle tome. If any armies still don't have books by 1 Jan 2020 then I reckon they're getting the choppa.

Well in today’s Stormcast podcast the lead over the entire AoS studio said “all existing armies will get a Battletome” which I think exist as they recognize. So no Tomb Kings or Bretonnia but anyone on the website is for sure getting one straight from the horses mouth. 

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7 minutes ago, Ravinsild said:

Well in today’s Stormcast podcast the lead over the entire AoS studio said “all existing armies will get a Battletome” which I think exist as they recognize. So no Tomb Kings or Bretonnia but anyone on the website is for sure getting one straight from the horses mouth. 

I just don't see them peddling the same sculpts for Aelves forever.

I definitely see them overhauling the Aelves with brand new sculpts with Hysh and Ulgu themes.

But the exact same High Elf and Dark Elf stuff? I just don't see it. I don't think that's good for the game long-term either.

But hey, if that's literally what's going to happen then it's good news for people who currently own those models.

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1 minute ago, 123lac said:

I just don't see them peddling the same sculpts for Aelves forever.

I definitely see them overhauling the Aelves with brand new sculpts with Hysh and Ulgu themes.

But the exact same High Elf and Dark Elf stuff? I just don't see it. I don't think that's good for the game long-term either.

But hey, if that's literally what's going to happen then it's good news for people who currently own those models.

Well he didn't go into any details. He just said "all existing armies will get a battletome" and if that mean redesign or what he didn't really say. He just said everyone is getting one. That means Ogres, Dispossessed, Aelves of one nature or another, and so forth. That's all he said though 🤷‍♂️

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existing army could be taken as Army that already did have battletomes before AoS 2.0 are getting one though

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1 minute ago, novakai said:

existing army could be taken as Army that already did have battletomes before AoS 2.0 are getting one though

Or maybe they'll be included like a legacy index to the new light and shadow aelf armies?

Different ways to do it I suppose.

I personally don't like how AoS is still 'stuck' to WHFB with a lot of legacy armies that don't make sense, at least aesthetically, with the new setting.

I thought the whole point of AoS was to break away from WHFB and reinvent as much as possible. We see this with how interesting and different the new armies are.

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1 minute ago, 123lac said:

Or maybe they'll be included like a legacy index to the new light and shadow aelf armies?

Different ways to do it I suppose.

I personally don't like how AoS is still 'stuck' to WHFB with a lot of legacy armies that don't make sense, at least aesthetically, with the new setting.

I thought the whole point of AoS was to break away from WHFB and reinvent as much as possible. We see this with how interesting and different the new armies are.

I have notice that they been tiptoeing around some of the more vanilla portion of their old WHF range, Freeguild, Disspossesed, Wanderers, Darkling coven, all the high elves, Gitmob, Greenskinz, and Gutzbuster, which are all ranges that contain the core units of their WHF army back in the day have yet to be touch in AoS and some have been phased out.

there also a bit scaling issue now since a lot of the more humanoid faction look like midgets compare to the newer models

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People have a fetish to want things they dont play to be squated for the good of the game.

"I dont care for this  line, so i hope it get squatted!"

Very few elves are not plastics or out of scale. In resin just a very few heroes and i would say out of scale the Lion Rangers units and Glade Guard. 

No reason to have it scraped instead of absorved into new lines. 

Same go to Wanderers and Dispossessed, their lines are nearly complete (both lack a Behemoth) and are mostly new plastics.

Free Peoples can have stuff ADDED into it to make a more diverse variety of diferent lands and unity types. Sculpting new models of classic units would be great, konda like the new Squigs.

 

But it is very poor taste to diminish the wishes of other players to have their armies playable and supported because you think they "do not fit the Aos aesthetics" , whatever that is. 

I dont like the look of ironjaws,  think they are completly generic and boring, but i will be happy for new releases for the players that enjoy the faction!

 

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It is worth pointing that six of the armies which had allegiance abilities in ghb 2018 now have their own battletome. That leaves 6 spots open for new armies to get them. If GW does another 6 battletomes this year, that means that every current army will have an aos2 update of some sort by the end of year. 

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3 hours ago, 123lac said:

Or maybe they'll be included like a legacy index to the new light and shadow aelf armies?

Different ways to do it I suppose.

1)I personally don't like how AoS is still 'stuck' to WHFB with a lot of legacy armies that don't make sense, at least aesthetically, with the new setting.

I thought the whole point of AoS was to break away from WHFB and reinvent as much as possible. We see this with how interesting and different the new armies are.

Change The fluff (or don’t) and boom, we have a huge range that fits perfectly into aothr (age of the horned rat).

also calling something aesthetically not fitting in is more or less wrong, I mean do we have any lore in how Aelves or humans are clothed in those realms, technically all of those temples and the militia, could have a similar heraldry across the realms.

Also from a certain perspective lion range are probably the perfect aelves that could roam the realm of beasts hunting gigantic monsters and other kind of beasts.

Swordmaster look like they are a part of a great city in Azyr, Same is it with the dragon blades, and all the high Aelven mages.

More or less everything that ones was a part of the dar aelves, could easily be mistaken for living in the realm of shadows 

I mean the variety is so much bigger with all the realms, the only thing that keeping this armies still bond to the old world, is the missing aos fluff 

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AoS still continues the same lore that Old World had - it was never fully about getting rid of it. What I think it was about was allowing GW to add and remove armies (factions) at a whim and (as a result) models as well. Allowing them to fast cycle things and essentially have a boutique model line made of plastic rather than resin. So each time a plastic mould gave out or a line wasn't selling they'd just retire it and release a new model line. That's why we had grand alliances - 4 factions that had many subfactions within; and why we had no formal rules. You can see that with no formal rules and only 4 actual "factions" within the game, GW could add a dozen new armies and retire a dozen armies and still have the grand alliances. 

That backfired. 

What we have now is much more sane for what hte bulk of the market wanted and because its born from another game it will keep the old armies - heck we've really only two new factions - Nighthaunt and Stormcast. Everything else is either a direct continuation of an old army or an evolution of them. Sure some of the old stuff like high elf archers and the like are quite "rank and file coneheads" and not as "exciting" as newer sculpts. That's not a fault of the idea of an aelf with a bow, its the simple fact that GW can only update so many models in a year. So right now sure they'll keep them and then in time release new versions with more "cool and dynamic" posts. Much like they did for the Gloomspite. 

We don't see this for every army because GW can't do it. For all their power and money they can't remake every army and release new battletomes in one to two years - its just beyond their capacity to achieve. They could do it possibly if they outsourced everything and threw all their money into high end moulds for investment; and it would front load them so heavily that it could cripple them (esp if the market got choked on so many new models that GW exceeded the market ability to buy in continual bulk volume). 

 

And I agree much of the range still fits with the high fantasy world of the Realms. Remember just because its high fantasy doesn't mean everything has to be supre gaudy and sparkling. Your high fantasy world still has mundane regular troops on the ground. I also feel that GW is leaving it up to us to paint, convert and base for different realms. Sure some armies will have very strong ties to specific realms, but I don't think they all need to be bound as such. In fact many races live in multiple realms - Aelves and humans and dwarves are very clearly spread over many realms. Furthermore with the size of the realms themselves even a small outpost of Dwarves in Shyesh could have enough numbers to form an army for a player even if there is no major outpost there in the lore. Heck lore wise we don't really yet even have high detailed maps of the core realms that identify specific territories, lands and features.

 

@PlasticCraic I didn't add Gitmob mostly because they've nothing save for a name now. No models, no rules anywhere and nothing on the horizon. Far as I can tell they vanished into Gloomspite and that was it. Greenskins are mostly in the list because they were around when the list was made and they then vanished, but did oddly retain references in some forces - though I agree they are pretty much totally gone. 

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3 minutes ago, Overread said:

we've really only two new factions

There are also Idoneth Deepkin.

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