New AOS fluff-to much? To little? Just right?

[KHHaunts]

Having made my way through the core rule book i have to say im quite impressed by the amount fluff they have put in. As there are now massive amounts story that can be expanded and fleshed out over time. 

I could right a very long post all at once detailing my thoughts and comparisons with 40k and whfb and how i think/hope things will progress but instead ill open it straight tomyhe floor.

 

But i will say that all in all i am. Very happy with it.

Whatndo people think.

[amysrevenge]

Very nice.  Ultimately there is no such thing as too much lore*.  Folks who love the lore will always want more, and folks who don't care can ignore whatever size of heap you show them with equal ease.

I love it.

*Exception - folks who don't care about lore might not appreciate being compelled to pay for it.

[Absolution black]

I haven't read any of it yet but after flicking through the core book, background book to soul wars and the malign sorcery book there seems a lot of fluff to read!

And they look gorgeous

[chord]

I enjoyed the Earlier Lore with crazy high fantasy, unrealistic maps, etc.  Bought it all.

Not happy with the turn of the lore back to a more detailed aspect.  As such I won't be buying the core book.  

So I'm in an odd spot,  I used to love the lore but now don't.  The reverse of some who didn't care about it prior.  The difference being I can't get the core rules without buying it. 

 

[Overread]

I wish they'd put some timelines into the main book (and if there is one put more than one). I find that the way its written means that there's a lot of big events happening but its tricky to work out the order in which they happen or to get a proper sense of the time scales taking place.

 

That said there is certainly a lot of material there to work with and the game is setting itself up for some nice big releases and events. Already one can see that there is likely going to be some big event between Daughters of Khaine and Slaanesh in the nearish future. 

[pseudonyme]

Just right. Not very well written (or translated in french, but I would bet on the original content, or both).

But I am very happy so far (still reading the factions in the core book). 

[Skabnoze]

They added a lot of lore to Age of Sigmar in 1st edition - they simply gated so much of that stuff behind big pay walls and so nobody really knew half of it.  A lot of it was in those giant initial campaign books - which are all quite expensive.  A lot more of it was located in the novels which not everyone gets.  It was basically just scattered all over the place and that was honestly not doing them any favors with trying to get traction with the setting for the game.  Collating all of that into the main core book was a very good move.

[Nacnudllah]

I'm still reading it, but I'm loving the lore in the Core book especially because it's a recap of things that have largely transpired since the game's release.  So the fact that I can read it and think, "I played in that campaign" or "I played those battleplans" is very satisfying.

[Turgol]

The core book is a massive step forward, with some fleshing out of the realms that is extraordinary. I do not think, though, that it is still a definitive step as 4th edition was for fantasy. But now I am almost sure that we will be there in the next iteration. 

 

In terms of history-fluff, the book was a small letdown for a veteran like me. Marginally more Information on the age of myth and chaos and very focused on the Realmgate wars, with the same information we already had (and not retconned for the good). 

 

So I was very disappointed until I came to the jewel of the book: the introduction to the realms. This is the place were for the first time you get to live the background. Aqshy’s and the Great Parch’s presentation are the best (perhaps because it is less weird than Shyish or Ghyran). You get to live the evolution of 6 or 7 realms, how chaos advanced and what did manage to hold until the age of Sigmar, as well as to understand the theater of war since then.

The only bad part is, obviously, the fact that only Aqhsy is so well treated. Only marginally less good are Chamon, Ghyran and Shyish. And then the other four realms do not get this treatment at all. So this is why it is still a work in progress. You still have obscured parts of the world and its actors. But there are some hints at future developments there, so the definitive fleshing out is not that far away.

 

 

[KHHaunts]

46 minutes ago, chord said:

I enjoyed the Earlier Lore with crazy high fantasy, unrealistic maps, etc.  Bought it all.

Not happy with the turn of the lore back to a more detailed aspect.  As such I won't be buying the core book.  

So I'm in an odd spot,  I used to love the lore but now don't.  The reverse of some who didn't care about it prior.  The difference being I can't get the core rules without buying it. 

 

Out of curiosity were you a Warhammer fantasy fan before AOS?

Also do you not think the maps are still pretty crazy! however there is a boundary even if it is a massive one.

As for the core rules you know they are free to download right?

[Turgol]

I do not think he has read the lore. The maps and theaters are completely crazy in what refers to the Spiral Crux, the Prime Innerlands and the Emerald map of that part of Ghyran.

[KHHaunts]

44 minutes ago, Overread said:

I wish they'd put some timelines into the main book (and if there is one put more than one). I find that the way its written means that there's a lot of big events happening but its tricky to work out the order in which they happen or to get a proper sense of the time scales taking place.

 

That said there is certainly a lot of material there to work with and the game is setting itself up for some nice big releases and events. Already one can see that there is likely going to be some big event between Daughters of Khaine and Slaanesh in the nearish future. 

Well they had the timeline just without the actual dates.

To me thats part of the point though we will learn more about each event as AOS continues to develop.

 

Maybe one day there will be a book detaling the history of Vandus ad Vendall Blackfist just like the sigmar origin books. and will get more timelines in the battletomes.

[Overread]

One thing I think is to consider that the Lore in Sigmar 2.0 is closer to the Lore for a Sigmar 1.0 release.  Considering that from the 1 to 2 there have been huge changes from what was originally planned to what we have now and its clear that GW are treating the 2.0 much like a full game launch. Ergo lots of the lore focused on getting people to the "starting point" as it were and on board at roughly the same place. So there's no huge new sweeping bits of story; those are likely coming in the next few months with new campaigns and events and books.

[KHHaunts]

28 minutes ago, Overread said:

One thing I think is to consider that the Lore in Sigmar 2.0 is closer to the Lore for a Sigmar 1.0 release.  Considering that from the 1 to 2 there have been huge changes from what was originally planned to what we have now and its clear that GW are treating the 2.0 much like a full game launch. Ergo lots of the lore focused on getting people to the "starting point" as it were and on board at roughly the same place. So there's no huge new sweeping bits of story; those are likely coming in the next few months with new campaigns and events and books.

Agree 100% with the realmgate was set in history and the time jump the first rendition of AOS feels like a prologue. This feels like the first fill launch.

[Mr. White]

Quote

The only thing I don't like is them making the stormcast more grimdark. I don't need or want stories of  demigod/super solders slaughtering helpless civilians. If I wanted that, I would be into the 40k  setting. But i'm not anymore.

^Agreed!

I liked the fact that there was a 'good guy'/'knight in shining armour' faction..even if I didn't play them. Making the SCE dark and grey doesn't give depth to the setting....we have plenty of grimdark (even within the 'Order' faction - which I know doesn't mean 'good').

We seem to be able to have extreme evils on one end of the bell curve...why not an attempt at far good on the other?  

Too many shades of grey and black makes the whole setting...murky and less flavorful, IMO.

[Charles]

I agree @Mr. White I have really enjoyed GW adding lots more character to the stormhosts  through the AoS 1 novels, but I am worried they are taking it too far.

It is ok to have good guys, having some straight laced good within order makes the alliance more interesting. Good guys having to hold their nose for the greater good is more interesting than groups of nasty people teaming up with horrible people to fight the mean people.

[Sleboda]

2 hours ago, Overread said:

I find that the way its written means that there's a lot of big events happening but its tricky to work out the order in which they happen

Agreed. It's my one gripe about it currently. I really do like how they've firmly entrenched the old Warhammer world into it. I know it was always there, but somehow now it just feels more like "yes, there was this other place where this all began - it's real and it all happened."

It seems less like a redo and more like a continuation to me now.

[chord]

1 hour ago, KHHaunts said:

Out of curiosity were you a Warhammer fantasy fan before AOS?

Also do you not think the maps are still pretty crazy! however there is a boundary even if it is a massive one.

As for the core rules you know they are free to download right?

I was not.  I have read a couple of old world novels...but that was all.

Yup I have the core rules, but am missing all the realm stuff.  

I would have liked them to split the rules and lore like in AOS 1.0  (I bought all the realm gate war books)

[chord]

1 hour ago, Turgol said:

I do not think he has read the lore. The maps and theaters are completely crazy in what refers to the Spiral Crux, the Prime Innerlands and the Emerald map of that part of Ghyran.

I've read all the lore excluding the core book.  (I bought all the realm-gate wars books, did you?)  Was enjoying it more during the realm-gate wars and less as we moved into AOS 2.0.

[chord]

9 minutes ago, Sleboda said:

Agreed. It's my one gripe about it currently. I really do like how they've firmly entrenched the old Warhammer world into it. I know it was always there, but somehow now it just feels more like "yes, there was this other place where this all began - it's real and it all happened."

It seems less like a redo and more like a continuation to me now.

It makes sense for WHFB fans,  but for somebody who was not into it less so.

[chord]

1 hour ago, Mr. White said:

^Agreed!

I liked the fact that there was a 'good guy'/'knight in shining armour' faction..even if I didn't play them. Making the SCE dark and grey doesn't give depth to the setting....we have plenty of grimdark (even within the 'Order' faction - which I know doesn't mean 'good').

We seem to be able to have extreme evils on one end of the bell curve...why not an attempt at far good on the other?  

Too many shades of grey and black makes the whole setting...murky and less flavorful, IMO.

I agree with this 100%!  

[SirPergrin]

@chord

I own most of the realmgate wars books and i haven't find any differences in the lore between them and the new core book. 

The main difference for me, is that those were in essence campaign books following a developing story and the new core book is a campaign setting. Were the former mainly showed us the struggles and the battles that forged the narrative, the latter gives us a bird's eye view of the most important realm and its inhabitants. 

The focus changed, not the lore. 

[chord]

2 minutes ago, SirPergrin said:

@chord

I own most of the realmgate wars books and i haven't find any differences in the lore between them and the new core book. 

The main difference for me, is that those were in essence campaign books following a developing story and the new core book is a campaign setting. Were the former mainly showed us the struggles and the battles that forged the narrative, the latter gives us a bird's eye view of the most important realm and its inhabitants. 

The focus changed, not the lore. 

Fair Point!  I guess I prefer the old focus, and the living storyline.  Thank you @SirPergrin for making that more clear!

I do think some people in this community have a double standard (not you), that it was ok for people to dislike the Aos 1.0 lore/focus , but when people dislike the change in focus/lore for AoS 2.0 its blasphemy.

[shinros]

The change makes sense to me in 1.0 the enemy is clear, the enemy is in front of you it's a crusade for many in the forces order. But now that cities are being established again? All the enemy factions are changing tactics, the people are a vehicle of corruption and everyone has to make hard choices. Hell Sigmar has to make hard choices. He made one on the cusp of the age of chaos starting. It's not "grey" for the sake of it. Honestly I feel AOS is handling it far better than 40k. 

[Baron Klatz]

[Edit]: this was a response to the last Stormcast comment but i'll still agree to everyone that posted after that.

I definitely agree to that and my biggest love for Azyr's knights is because they're such a heroic force of crusaders that seek to help people, slay evil and find allies with anyone despite their background or race.

Really though this hasn't changed, Sigmar is still making new Stormcasts with fresh optimism and chivalrous ideals.

The grim Stormcast we see now are from their long running centuries of constant battles and multiple reforgings slowly stripping them of their humanity. This has been set-up since the beginning as Sigmar had to do the grim action of purging his realm to stop the threat of chaos and many books talking about  how the reforgings were taking their toll.

This conclusion of older Stormhosts becoming remorseless veterans charged with upkeeping order at any cost was inevitable and a understandable evolution of the lore.(otherwise what was the point of the constant reminders of the consequences and horrors of reforgings since the beginning of the realm gate novels?)

We'll still have our pure paladins from fresh Stormcasts, the Sacrosanct chamber new to the realm's battles and the odd old Stormhosts that retained their civility through the grueling centuries but now we have Stormcasts challenged with their longtime curse of lost memories and humanity and we get to see their struggle with that burden they took upon themselves to safeguard the realms and people.

3 hours ago, chord said:

I enjoyed the Earlier Lore with crazy high fantasy, unrealistic maps, etc.  Bought it all.

Not happy with the turn of the lore back to a more detailed aspect.  As such I won't be buying the core book.  

So I'm in an odd spot,  I used to love the lore but now don't.  The reverse of some who didn't care about it prior.  The difference being I can't get the core rules without buying it. 

 

Oh I know what you mean. The first realm of life map was what really made me fall for AoS and get behind it 100% with it's fantastical potential.

This is basically everything I've ever wanted from a fantasy setting rolled into one map.

That said, we're still getting amazing landscapes. The current focus is on the innerlands and their inhabitants though so it makes sense we're getting a more mundane look at things. The realm gate wars took the battles to every location from the safer innerlands to the fantastically outer territories of more wild magic and surreal landscapes.

Once they're done with the current set-up of properly laying the foundation of the realms we should likely see the mind-blowing maps again as the forces of the mortal realms expand again to battling from cities on the backs of monsters to strewn floating landscapes held aloft by portals of wandering magic.