AoS 2 - Stormcast Eternals Discussion

[Requizen]

Just now, stus67 said:

So would you recommend 20 sequitors over say two 10 man units?

Depends on the rest of your army. 2x10 are efficient fighting units that can activate relatively independently, even without Hero babysitting. 20 Sequitors are really strong with Hero support - hitting them with a Castellant Lantern, Heraldor Horn, and a spell or two can turn those 20 dudes into an absolute nightmare for your opponent.

[Nos]

1 hour ago, stus67 said:

So would you recommend 20 sequitors over say two 10 man units?

2 units are more of an offensive threat because they can hold twice as many objectives.

One big unit is pretty much immovable in defence with a Castellant and with Empower will murder most stuff but you need to ensure they’re not going to be circumvented. A lot of opponents will see 20 Sequitors and just ignore them as far as is possible, so you need to work out how to make them unavoidable.

If you take the former you need to ensure you have means of  keeping them from getting isolated, if you take the latter you need to ensure you have other means of threatening objectives while they hold the line.

In my experience the ability to threaten two objectives is broadly more valuable though. Two units of Sequitors holding objectives for two turns then dying is considerably more valuable than a massive block holding one. Also you have the option of holding a unit in reserve if you have two. If you drop or deploy your one unit in one place,  said place which will often be dictated by the absence of space for such a massive unit, and it’s not optimal, you’re playing catch up from the get-go.

Edited March 7, 2019 by Nos

[Marzillius]

Do people still use the Everblaze Comet? I've been considering a list with two wizards and the comet, and two units of Judicators. That should be great for picking off support heroes. If you go second the comet comes down, takes 2-3 wounds off every hero. Then the judicators drop down and mop up the remaining wounds. If any survive the comets aura can kill them at the beginning of the next battle round, as the wounds happen before they can dispel the comet (which is in itself a pretty bad idea).

The rest of the list are 6 Dracolines, 20 Sequitors and a bunch of my own  heroes (CastelIant, Heraldor, Incantor and Dracoline Arcanum) as vanilla Stormcast with Staunch Defender. Is this worth it do you think?

[HammerOfSigmar]

1 hour ago, Marzillius said:

Do people still use the Everblaze Comet? I've been considering a list with two wizards and the comet, and two units of Judicators. That should be great for picking off support heroes. If you go second the comet comes down, takes 2-3 wounds off every hero. Then the judicators drop down and mop up the remaining wounds. If any survive the comets aura can kill them at the beginning of the next battle round, as the wounds happen before they can dispel the comet (which is in itself a pretty bad idea).

The rest of the list are 6 Dracolines, 20 Sequitors and a bunch of my own  heroes (CastelIant, Heraldor, Incantor and Dracoline Arcanum) as vanilla Stormcast with Staunch Defender. Is this worth it do you think?

I think it is pretty good but there is a problem though. SCE have very limited casting roll buff(Stardrake's ability and celestial warbringer's CA), so when facing army with so many unbinding roll buffs, such as LON, you might have a hard time getting the comet on the ground.

[PJetski]

It depends on how you approach the game. Comet is great for dealing damage on an opponent that has stacked his army tight, which is the normal response to a very aggressive melee list (like Dracoths or Dracolines).

Personally I don't use the comet any more. I think 100 points is too much for a spell (even if it is the best spell in the game) when our basic wizard is 140 points with 1 cast and no bonuses. The -1 cast debuff is nice but it's not that important when Incantors have dispel scrolls.

Just use the Geminids instead. They're 60pt cheaper, have a high threat range, and really mess up most armies with the -1 hit or -1 attack debuffs. They're a great insurance policy against opponents getting double turns, since you can activate them and pass over a ton of units. 

There are lists that can make both comet + geminids work together, though...

[Nos]

1 hour ago, HammerOfSigmar said:

I think it is pretty good but there is a problem though. SCE have very limited casting roll buff(Stardrake's ability and celestial warbringer's CA), so when facing army with so many unbinding roll buffs, such as LON, you might have a hard time getting the comet on the ground.

The unbind dosrn’t need to be an issue as it’s one of the few (only?) Spells you can cast outwith 30”. 

Very situational. It’s the bane of small tightly packed cabals of buffers and casters, like a gore pilgrims commitee, but having said that it’s still unreliable as it’s cast dependent and there isn’t a shortage of options to deal with those kind of lists anyway. 5 Liberators can cap an objective for the same cost, or you can bring along pretty much any other hero on foot who can do multiple things for multiple units all game.

When it works it’s spectacular but some people like myself would rather take a solid option than a hit or miss one which comet definitely is.

Edited March 8, 2019 by Nos

[Requizen]

One of the upsides is that the Comet is one of the only ways to instagib Morathi, since she can take damage in the time between turns, so depending on how much of a problem she is it's a consideration. It's also a great way to kill small Death Heroes like Vamp Lords or Necromancers.

I think there's a lot of limitations with it due to our medicore casting and the cost of the spell, but if you build with it in mind it can be a very solid tool.

[Darren2607]

Hey guys, just got back into playing sce after splitting the soul wars box I had a 2k army anyway, so it's nice to add some magic. 

Does anyone use Aventis? I like the model, and nice to have a centre piece that isn't a stardrake. I don't play competitive 

[Nos]

25 minutes ago, Requizen said:

One of the upsides is that the Comet is one of the only ways to instagib Morathi, since she can take damage in the time between turns, so depending on how much of a problem she is it's a consideration. It's also a great way to kill small Death Heroes like Vamp Lords or Necromancers.

I think there's a lot of limitations with it due to our medicore casting and the cost of the spell, but if you build with it in mind it can be a very solid tool.

How does it circumvent Iron Heart, I don’t think I understand. Not doubting you, just a bit dim to work it out.

[HammerOfSigmar]

FAQ clarifies this....

 

[Requizen]

5 minutes ago, HammerOfSigmar said:

FAQ clarifies this....

 

This. Her rule states she can only take 3 wounds per turn, but the start of a Battle Round is not either player's turn. So you can drop the Comet on 1, and when the turn rolls over, she takes damage from the pulse. Anything left over can be quickly cleaned up by the rest of your army.

[schwabbele]

47 minutes ago, Darren2607 said:

Hey guys, just got back into playing sce after splitting the soul wars box I had a 2k army anyway, so it's nice to add some magic. 

Does anyone use Aventis? I like the model, and nice to have a centre piece that isn't a stardrake. I don't play competitive 

Go for it, surely a awesome model on the field.

[PJetski]

12 minutes ago, Requizen said:

This. Her rule states she can only take 3 wounds per turn, but the start of a Battle Round is not either player's turn. So you can drop the Comet on 1, and when the turn rolls over, she takes damage from the pulse. Anything left over can be quickly cleaned up by the rest of your army.

That's true of any Endless Spell that does damage, and not a feature specific to the comet.

Not many people run Morathi any more - 480pt is too hard to justify unless she is using her command ability (but then you're not getting the Hagg Narr command trait).

Edited March 8, 2019 by PJetski

[Twh30]

Hi there looking at possibly running a hard hitting cavalry unit in a shooting list. The idea is it charges in to mop stuff up. The questions are what are the perks of the different dracothian units? Also what sized units are recommended and is a celestant on dracoth neccessary? Thank you

[Kubrick54]

To be honest, and I know I'm in the minority here, your best answer is probably a Pallador-heavy Vanguard list. They move like crazy, can do a bit in shooting and can easily mop up softened up units.

 

[chord]

I've started taking Lighting Blast as my lore of the storm for my knight incantor.  I'm really liking it.  Low cast value and has a limitless range (as long as the opponent has a visible unit). 

[BaronBanana]

So I had a neat idea of a small SCE force I'd like to just pick up and paint while I settle back into college and all that.  I saw the female heads from FW for SCE and thought "Hey, you know what would be cool?  Bringing back the Sisters of Sigmar."  I'm not really into being competitive that much anymore, and building a fun thematic, probably 1000 point list could be fun, but I would also like to not put down models just to pick them back up again.  Between the two Start Collecting and various starters I know I'll be able to split, what would y'all recommend?  I'm also more inclined to use hammer wielding models

[Nos]

20 minutes ago, BaronBanana said:

So I had a neat idea of a small SCE force I'd like to just pick up and paint while I settle back into college and all that.  I saw the female heads from FW for SCE and thought "Hey, you know what would be cool?  Bringing back the Sisters of Sigmar."  I'm not really into being competitive that much anymore, and building a fun thematic, probably 1000 point list could be fun, but I would also like to not put down models just to pick them back up again.  Between the two Start Collecting and various starters I know I'll be able to split, what would y'all recommend?  I'm also more inclined to use hammer wielding models

It’s a great theme but would recommend working out exactly what your budget is because it will be expensive to do all females. Off the top of my head the only kits with/which are women:

Astreia Solbright

Knight Zephyros

Angar Brightshield (Shadespire) only female Liberator option

Sequitors have I think 4 women in the 10 box and there’s a prime in the ETB set

One female Prime Castigator in Soul Wars

One Castigator in the ETB set

Evocator set has 2 women out of 5

Shadespire Evocators gang have one woman

One Knight Incantor in Soul Wars

One female Evocator on Dracoline

One Female Ballista crew in ETB set

Think that’s it.

Its nearly all Sacrosanct stuff and at a ratio of at most 2:5. So you’re going to have to buy a lot of kits. If you’re converting that might make it easier but even then there’s an absence of readily available female SC bodies to work from.

[BaronBanana]

26 minutes ago, Nos said:

It’s a great theme but would recommend working out exactly what your budget is because it will be expensive to do all females. Off the top of my head the only kits with/which are women:

Astreia Solbright

Knight Zephyros

Angar Brightshield (Shadespire) only female Liberator option

Sequitors have I think 4 women in the 10 box and there’s a prime in the ETB set

One female Prime Castigator in Soul Wars

One Castigator in the ETB set

Evocator set has 2 women out of 5

Shadespire Evocators gang have one woman

One Knight Incantor in Soul Wars

One female Evocator on Dracoline

One Female Ballista crew in ETB set

Think that’s it.

Its nearly all Sacrosanct stuff and at a ratio of at most 2:5. So you’re going to have to buy a lot of kits. If you’re converting that might make it easier but even then there’s an absence of readily available female SC bodies to work from.

I mean, the armor doesn't need to be female specific, for example Severina Raine is a perfect example of a female without the boob plate.

[Trajann Valoris]

Is there any "useful" list for Hallowed Knights? I love their color scheme but they don't seem very popular among players...

[schwabbele]

3 hours ago, Trajann Valoris said:

Is there any "useful" list for Hallowed Knights? I love their color scheme but they don't seem very popular among players...

Just ise their colors and play any stormhost you like

[Nos]

6 hours ago, BaronBanana said:

I mean, the armor doesn't need to be female specific, for example Severina Raine is a perfect example of a female without the boob plate.

 No but you’re making an army of divine Amazon beings, not women. Severina Raine would look like a Dwarf next to them as would pretty much all other female models without heavy conversion. Sisters of Silence from 30k are pretty close to Sigmarite plate and scale but I’m not sure if they’re even available now..

As I said it’s a great idea, I’m not saying this stuff to dump on it, but just to warn you that unless you have acccess to about 15+ Female bodies already it *will* be expensive. It’s great that GW are finally making real strides with gender representation but unfortunately the model availability is still out of ratio by a massive amount and there’s no real way of easily getting a dozen plus SC sized females without having to buy several expensive kits 

[Lucur]

It would be possible to bulge out the chestpiece of male Stormcast with some greenstuff (like Angarad Brightshield has). The accentuated boob armor doesn't make any sense anyways.

[Starfyre]

On 3/6/2019 at 1:09 PM, Karragon said:

So I attended Sheffield Slaughter just over a week ago and GW Heat 1 this last weekend. I went 3-2 at both with Stormcast and just thought I'd put my thoughts down after facing a variety of different armies over the 10 games/2 weekends.

To Sheffield I took:

  Reveal hidden contents

Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals
- Stormhost: Hammers of Sigmar
Lord-Arcanum on Celestial Dracoline (240)
- General
- Trait: We Cannot Fail 
- Spell: Celestial Blades
- Mount Trait: Pride Leader
Lord-Castellant (100)
- Artefact: God-forged Blade 
Knight-Incantor (140)
- Spell: Azyrite Halo
Knight-Heraldor (100)
5 x Sequitors (120)
5 x Sequitors (120)
5 x Sequitors (120)
10 x Evocators (400)
6 x Evocators on Dracolines (600)
Chronomantic Cogs (60)

Game 1: Total Commitment vs Fyreslayers

Despite regularly playing against Fyreslayers this was one of the toughest games of the weekend, my Dracolines literally bounced off his wall of half naked dwarves killing a grand total of 3 on the charge to be promptly shot to pieces by magma pikes. The game was a slow grind won perhaps more by luck than great generalship. My opponent forgot that gryphounds can retreat after attacking despite it happening the previous turn and I retreated onto one of his objectives, that might not have won it but 5 sequitors coming back to life to take his other objective sealed the win for me. I killed a grand total of 860 points but was effectively tabled. MVP of the match was the knight incantor, a 3 MW arcane bolt followed by a suicide charge with vial took out the allied Celestant Prime.

Game 2: Focal Points vs Beast of Chaos

My first time playing against BoC. Their endless spells were annoying and a turn 1 charge by bullgor put some serious hurt on both sequitors and dracolines. A failed charge by deep striking gors? bestigors? gave my Dracolines a chance to retreat from the bullgors and charge them to take out the whole unit in one go. This was the only battle where I felt the evocators on foot pulled their weight. Despite various shenanigans on the flank to try and slow/bog them down they ground their way through everything in their path to secure that objective. Sequitors just refused to die, a lone prime left alive in every unit ended up taking out the last of the bullgors and 10 or so ungor. A solid victory this one with me not only tabling him but killing everything he summoned as well for a loss of 380 points.

Game 3: Escalation vs Legion of Sacrament

The only game of the weekend that I felt was unwinnable. Arhkan + 90 grimgasts. There's not much I can say against about this. Dracolines did manage to chew through a unit of them and keep him from bringing them back for another turn. I am just yet to find an answer to grimgasts, even 30 of them is a problem for me, 90 is just ridiculous.

Game 4: Places of Arcane Power vs Slaanesh

Another first for me facing Slaanesh though I was fairly aware of what they did I still underestimated the killing power of daemonettes especially when in large units. Dracolines failing their turn 1 charge left me exposed to counter charges and a 6" pile in from an exalted greater demon took out both my general and artifact carrier, it did bring him within 3" of the evocators though and they made quick work of it, MWing it off the board in a single round. Before being summarily obliterated by daemonettes. Various other foolish mistakes on my part followed. Incantor blowing her vials put enough wounds on herself and a dracoline to let a keeper of secrets finish her off and reduce the dracolines to 1 which I remembered too late meant they were no longer a wizard so could no longer hold the point. Game ended with a victory for Slaanesh; I killed 1390 points and lost 1940 so very very bloody.

Game 5: Better Part of Valour vs Legion of Nagash

As this army was led by Nagash I was expecting an uphill struggle. Dracolines did what dracolines do though and tore through grave guard and zombies alike to secure the central point, despite Nagash's presence. Evocators chewed through spirit hosts to take the right objective at which point my opponent agreed victory was mine. We played on for kill points though. Despite killing all the Dracolines, most of the evocators and my general, Nagash eventually succumbed to sequitor great maces and was slain. 1480 kill points for 980 losses, these numbers I think were a little bit inflated by the knowledge that I'd won turn 2 and our decision to just go for kills.

 

GW Heat 1

After Sheffield I decided to alter my list. I hadn't felt like the evocators on foot had pulled their weight at all so I dropped them in favour of more sequitors. What the list ultimately ended up looking like was:

  Reveal hidden contents

Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals
- Stormhost: Hammers of Sigmar
Lord-Arcanum on Celestial Dracoline (240)
- General
- Trait: We Cannot Fail 
- Spell: Celestial Blades
- Mount Trait: Pride Leader
Lord-Castellant (100)
- Artefact: God-forged Blade 
Knight-Incantor (140)
- Spell: Azyrite Halo
Knight-Heraldor (100)
20 x Sequitors (400)
10 x Sequitors (240)
5 x Sequitors (120)
6 x Evocators on Dracolines (600)
Chronomantic Cogs (60)

Game 1: Shifting Objectives vs Troggherd

A fun but very brutal game leaving a total of 7 models on the board at the end of it. Hand of gork put a big unit of rockgut troggs 9"s from my dracolines but they failed the charge and then promptly all died to dracoline claws. 4 rotguts managed to kill or rout the big sequitor unit in a single round but the objectives shifted in my favour to give me a solid, if somewhat bruising, win.

Game 2: Places of Arcane Power vs Beast of Chaos 

My first experience against Battletome Tzangor and a perfect example of "fool me once" with the enlightened's reroll ability allowing them to kill all the dracolines in a single round. Despite that it was a close game, by the end he had 1 character left capable of holding the points with a single wound remaining. Some of his characters died to the "wrong thing" which meant I didn't cap the points till the following turn.  A couple of dice going a different way and I think this one was winnable.

Game 3: Starstrike vs Stormcast

20 evocators and 4 ballista made up the bulk of this army. I was very foolish in this game but also very very lucky. I forgot, or didn't notice he had a heraldor. I moved my dracolines up to 17"s away from his evocators, perfectly safe I though till they were 5"s away with a rerollable charge...which they failed. I won priority and not wishing to look this gift horse in the mouth I promptly charged in with the dracolines and killed 14 of them, the rest ran to battleshock though they did hurt the dracolines in the process, who were promptly finished off with ballista fire. All 3 objectives dropped down one side of the board, shielded from LoS of the ballistas by a massive piece of terrain (realmscape feature limited shooting and casting to 18"s as well), I dropped 30 sequitors on them and camped there for the win. Also if anyone ever doubted it, sequitors are better than liberators in a 1v1 fight every time.

Game 4: Better Part of Valour vs Deepkin

This was a very back and forth game and it did come down to turn 5 to find a winner, probably my favourite of the weekend. Dracolines turn 1 charged across the board and took out 6 eels, a counter charge by 20 thralls killed the lot of them, oups. 6 eels and Volturnos crashed into 10 sequitors with Azyrite halo on them. The eels basically mortal wounded themselves to death as I rolled bucket loads of 6s to save (but couldn't hit for toffee). Volturnos, on 1 wound remaining finally killed the last sequitor on turn 3, who promptly came back on the opposite flank, thanks Hammers. A knight incantor charged Volturnos and popped a vial to finish him off. At this point, there's 2 burnt objectives, 1 on each side and score is all even. I made my first mistake here, a unit of sequitors had dropped down near the incantor to help hold the objective from some allied Khinari but they weren't close enough, they should have tried to charge Volturnos or failing that I should have burnt the objective. On the other flank, the resurrected sequitors failed a 4" charge that would have given most likely given me control of that objective (10 seqs vs 10 reavers). He moved the khinari forwards to take the objective and burnt both of them. Victory at this point was his...I did get some retribution by clearing off the reavers, khinari and a turtle but too little too late. 1480 kill points for 1280 losses. Another game that was winnable.

Game 5: Border War vs Ironjawz

This game was brutal and not in a good way. Opponent took first turn and moved up but couldn't charge me, Dracolines and sequitors charged on my turn. Dracoline claws alone took out 10 brutes and the arcanum killed a mega boss. Sequitors whittled down some gore grunters for maybe 1-2 deaths. I got the double turn, dracolines charged another unit of brutes, his mawcrusher and warchanter. Brutes and warchanter both died, mawcrusher survived with a couple of wounds remaining. 30 minutes into the game with 8 models left in his army and 2 kills, my opponent conceded.

 

Overall I'm much happier with the heat 1 list, all the games felt more controlled and less seat of the pants than Sheffield sometimes had. I don't think I'll be using evocators on foot any more though. I'm not convinced they're worth the points, after their initial hit they often die or are left too far away to contribute further. I also didn't feel like the 20 man unit of sequitors was any better than the 10. I'll probably drop it in favour of 3 units of 10 for next time. I also think I need to be less aggressive with the dracolines, everything they touch turns to dead but they often die or get bogged down after that, being deep in the enemy deployment and too far from heraldors or castellants to help. My final thought is that I think we've got the tools to win (grimgasts aside) and I don't think we're in as bad a place as recent statistics make it look. A little more luck or a better player than me could, I feel, have won 3 out of the 4 games I lost.

 

Some nice feedback. What list did you run? Sorry, looked through but couldn't find it!

[AdamR]

5 minutes ago, Starfyre said:

Some nice feedback. What list did you run? Sorry, looked through but couldn't find it!

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