AoS 2 - Stormcast Eternals Discussion

[amysrevenge]

So I kinda don't know what to do with 5 Evocators.

I've only just finished painting, and I've only had 2 practice games so far.  But both times I've tried to be a bit aggressive with the Evos and both times they've melted away.

I'm considering either saving them for a Scions drop, or hanging them back and using them more defensively.

I think I may have put my list in here before, but it's basically two Wizards, Celestant Prime, battleline of 20 Sequitors and two min Judicators, 5 Evos, Lordinator with 2 Ballistas.

I've been doing Scions drops with Lordinator, Ballistas, and one Judicator.  Considering deploying the Judicators and Scion dropping the Evos instead.

 

Alternately, I might drop the Evos all together, and add in a Comet and either 2 CP (Anvild of Heldenhammer are hungry for CP) or a Knight Heraldor.

[Mark Williams]

8 minutes ago, amysrevenge said:

So I kinda don't know what to do with 5 Evocators.

I've only just finished painting, and I've only had 2 practice games so far.  But both times I've tried to be a bit aggressive with the Evos and both times they've melted away.

I'm considering either saving them for a Scions drop, or hanging them back and using them more defensively.

I think I may have put my list in here before, but it's basically two Wizards, Celestant Prime, battleline of 20 Sequitors and two min Judicators, 5 Evos, Lordinator with 2 Ballistas.

I've been doing Scions drops with Lordinator, Ballistas, and one Judicator.  Considering deploying the Judicators and Scion dropping the Evos instead.

 

Alternately, I might drop the Evos all together, and add in a Comet and either 2 CP (Anvild of Heldenhammer are hungry for CP) or a Knight Heraldor.

I put them behind and in counter charge distance of a unit of libs. They in turn are surrounding my commander. I use them as a base guarding team to defend.

[Turragor]

1 hour ago, Black Blade said:

So what you're saying is that before throwing both units out the window I should realize that those particular match ups were on the extreme end of what combats would be like should choose them more wisely?

I think in particular Dracolines v Durthu was an uneven matchup as he could retaliate and actually kill most of that valuable unit. Last time I played Sc against Durthu I avoided him as  I was playing LcoSD turtle style and had nothing to move him with. The time before that I sacrificed half of a unit of retributors and decimators each but starsoul mace/ blast to ashes him out.

I think fulminatos pinning the hunters was ok though there could be other targets - prevented them shooting and with a heraldor you can retreat and recharge another unit anyway.

[Black Blade]

2 hours ago, amysrevenge said:

So I kinda don't know what to do with 5 Evocators.

I've only just finished painting, and I've only had 2 practice games so far.  But both times I've tried to be a bit aggressive with the Evos and both times they've melted away.

I'm considering either saving them for a Scions drop, or hanging them back and using them more defensively.

I think I may have put my list in here before, but it's basically two Wizards, Celestant Prime, battleline of 20 Sequitors and two min Judicators, 5 Evos, Lordinator with 2 Ballistas.

I've been doing Scions drops with Lordinator, Ballistas, and one Judicator.  Considering deploying the Judicators and Scion dropping the Evos instead.

 

Alternately, I might drop the Evos all together, and add in a Comet and either 2 CP (Anvild of Heldenhammer are hungry for CP) or a Knight Heraldor.

I can help you out a bit here, I ran five for quite a while so I have some experience. I never scioned them mostly because I want them casting and eating dispels if possible but 5 evocators will melt away almost anything you put them into. They single-handedly won me about 3 of my first 5 games of AoS. They did so well will grandstaves against the right targets I forgot that they dish out mortal wounds after their attacks. They destroyed 1 unit of 3 Gore-Gruntas, 1unit of 30 skinks, 1 unit of 20 sarus warriors killed a bunch and the rest ran after battleshock. For them its all about striking first when they are at 5, they just arent tanky enough for some elites but those elites arent either so you must hit first. I bumped them to 10 models, all grandstaves and they eliminated a 30 block of bloodletters. granted they had buffs but so did the daemons and I went second in that match up. only lost 3 models but 7 deleted them before I even rolled for MW. The guy foreit the match immediately. Sounds like you have kind of a ranged oriented list though. If you want to keep your numbers I would break the sequitors into two 10 man units and put the judicators in one big unit. you can divide your shots anyway but with two ten mans you can pressure the board better.

1 hour ago, Turragor said:

I think in particular Dracolines v Durthu was an uneven matchup as he could retaliate and actually kill most of that valuable unit. Last time I played Sc against Durthu I avoided him as  I was playing LcoSD turtle style and had nothing to move him with. The time before that I sacrificed half of a unit of retributors and decimators each but starsoul mace/ blast to ashes him out.

 I think fulminatos pinning the hunters was ok though there could be other targets - prevented them shooting and with a heraldor you can retreat and recharge another unit anyway.

Thanks, I see what you mean about the Fulminators having a job worth their points even if they weren't taking units or even models off the board consistently. I think the Dracolines should cost about as much as the Fulminators do now but that was a terrible match up that I just had to learn about the hard way. Thanks for breaking it down for me, I see it more clearly now.

[aceytrixx]

So the scions rule says you can set up one Stormcast unit in the heavens for very unit deployed normally. Now there isn't the stormcast keyword applied to what's deployed on the table. Does that mean allies count towards the limits for what can be set up in the heavens? 

[Requizen]

6 hours ago, aceytrixx said:

So the scions rule says you can set up one Stormcast unit in the heavens for very unit deployed normally. Now there isn't the stormcast keyword applied to what's deployed on the table. Does that mean allies count towards the limits for what can be set up in the heavens? 

Yes. A unit of Skinks, or an Archmage, can be placed first and then you can place a Scions unit in the sky.

 

Additionally, there are a couple ways to place things off the table without using the "half on" rule. The Celestant Prime, for example, can be placed off the table as your first drop, as he uses his own deployment rules. Skyborne Slayers can also still be placed off as an entire battalion on your first drop.

[Darkrich]

I have a question about the aetherwings watchful guardians rule. I looked around but there was never a conclusive answer. Can you use it to hop them into melee?

[Mark Williams]

1 hour ago, Darkrich said:

I have a question about the aetherwings watchful guardians rule. I looked around but there was never a conclusive answer. Can you use it to hop them into melee?

My gut says that the core rules for movement would apply in this situation, and it would fall under the blanket of a “normal move.” Meaning you would have to stay outside of 3”.

[schwabbele]

Damn, is there really no Sequitor Prime with greatmace in the box? What is GW smoking? Really mad now.

[The World Tree]

1 minute ago, schwabbele said:

Damn, is there really no Sequitor Prime with greatmace in the box? What is GW smoking? Really mad now.

Never should have been an option in the book to begin with! 

[schwabbele]

Why?

[Mark Williams]

29 minutes ago, The World Tree said:

Never should have been an option in the book to begin with! 

Not sure if you’re joking, but I actually agree, and same for liberators. I thought it was an error in the unit description when I first started building my army.

as it stands, you’ll have to do a conversion.

[PJetski]

45 minutes ago, schwabbele said:

Damn, is there really no Sequitor Prime with greatmace in the box? What is GW smoking? Really mad now.

Just put the greatmace on the primes

You dont have to follow the instructions 100%

[AverageBoss]

All you have to do is put greatmace arms and a prime shoulder pad on the same model. No conversions necessary.
 

[Requizen]

1 hour ago, Mark Williams said:

My gut says that the core rules for movement would apply in this situation, and it would fall under the blanket of a “normal move.” Meaning you would have to stay outside of 3”.

It's anything but a "Normal Move". The rules state a Normal Move is made during the Movement Phase, and those rules only apply during that time. So Watchful Guardians can be used to move into melee range, since it is not a Normal Move.

[aceytrixx]

5 hours ago, Requizen said:

Yes. A unit of Skinks, or an Archmage, can be placed first and then you can place a Scions unit in the sky.

 

Additionally, there are a couple ways to place things off the table without using the "half on" rule. The Celestant Prime, for example, can be placed off the table as your first drop, as he uses his own deployment rules. Skyborne Slayers can also still be placed off as an entire battalion on your first drop.

Thats how I figured it worked since it doesn't explicitly say. Looks like I can try out my list this weekend after all. 

[Mark Williams]

2 hours ago, Requizen said:

It's anything but a "Normal Move". The rules state a Normal Move is made during the Movement Phase, and those rules only apply during that time. So Watchful Guardians can be used to move into melee range, since it is not a Normal Move.

I stand by my opinion. I think you have to stay 3” away, unless you’re in combat already, in which case you have to “flee” and get 3” away (but not roll an extra dice to flee). Until FAQed, I’d prefer we roll a dice to settle it.

Bare in mind I play SCE too and use these units. It feels a bit beardy to do that to people to me.

 I think the intention of their ability is to make it more difficult to charge them by flying away, or to fly away from a combat. Flying into a unit in order to prevent them from charging just feels wrong to me, and saying you can do it because it doesn’t say you can’t, even if you win the semantics debate, will not win you many friends...

My rule of thumb is to not do shady stuff until a FAQ or clear ruling allows it. IE. err on the side of your opponent rather than your own.

Edited September 18, 2018 by Mark Williams

[boombyeyeah]

Q: Some abilities allow a model to make a move out of sequence (in the hero phase, for example), or to make a specific type of move (a ‘6" retreat move’, for example). Can I run when I make these moves? A: You can only run if the ability refers to making a ‘normal move’ (which includes any move made ‘as if it were the movement phase’) and the ability doesn’t specify the distance of the move. Note that the restrictions that apply to normal moves (not moving within 3" of the enemy, and having to retreat if they start within 3" of the enemy) also apply to normal moves made in any other phase. However, these restrictions do not apply to any other sort of move. So, for example, if the ability said ‘This unit can make a normal move’ the unit could run and could not move within 3" of the enemy unless it retreats, and if it said ‘This unit can move D6".’ then it could not run but could move within 3" of the enemy.

[Mark Williams]

Sounds good to me. I’m sorry to have said anything different. Cheers for pointing that out!

[Black Blade]

8 hours ago, Requizen said:

It's anything but a "Normal Move". The rules state a Normal Move is made during the Movement Phase, and those rules only apply during that time. So Watchful Guardians can be used to move into melee range, since it is not a Normal Move.

Are you sure about that? I thought I remember there being a discussion about "hold the line" and how you cannot make a normal move which was said to include pile-ins. Therefore normal moves are not only in the movement phase. I may be misremembering though.

[Nos]

Apart from Mortal Wounds what can reliably kill Sequitors with SD rerolling armour saves? Mine are essentially immortal at present 

[schwabbele]

22 minutes ago, Nos said:

Apart from Mortal Wounds what can reliably kill Sequitors with SD rerolling armour saves? Mine are essentially immortal at present 

Really really bad rolls ? 

Try adding castellant buff and enjoy your opponents tears ?

Edited September 19, 2018 by schwabbele

[Gottkaiser]

33 minutes ago, Nos said:

Apart from Mortal Wounds what can reliably kill Sequitors with SD rerolling armour saves? Mine are essentially immortal at present 

[Noob Mode] What is SD?

[Peegee]

34 minutes ago, Nos said:

Apart from Mortal Wounds what can reliably kill Sequitors with SD rerolling armour saves? Mine are essentially immortal at present 

30 Bestigors full buffed with -1 or 2 save from the stone ans Spell look pretty scary. 

[ledha]

1 hour ago, Nos said:

Apart from Mortal Wounds what can reliably kill Sequitors with SD rerolling armour saves? Mine are essentially immortal at present 

shooting attacks, mortal wounds and attacks in hero phase.

Sequtors reroll their failed save only in the combat phase. Against shooting attacks (and mortal wounds ofc), they aren't more resilient than a pack of liberators, and are 20% more expensive. If they don't have staunch defenders+castellant, they will die very easily against any semi-threatening gunline.

That also mean that freeguild handgunners or crossbowmen, with all of their shoots in charge phase (weither you charge them or because of the freeguild special rules), won't have any problem to deal with sequitors. They will have at best a 3+ rr 1 while being shot at (because staunch defenders don't work when you charge), and it doesn't protect that well against 30+  shootings attacks with 2+/2+/-1/1

Note too that being unable to reroll their armor save  outside combat phase mean that any melee unit that pile-in in the hero phase (khorne, daughter of khaine, stormcast in anvils stormhost, nighthaunts with a 10+ charge roll, heartguard berserkers from the fyreslayers bataillion, bonneplitterz maybe ?) can cleave trough them with ease.

 

Edited September 19, 2018 by ledha