jeanfluflu Posted August 12, 2021 Share Posted August 12, 2021 Just now, PJetski said: I knew the day would come when I would need a squad of 6 Dracothian Guard OH dear they are magnificent! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrimeElectrid Posted August 12, 2021 Share Posted August 12, 2021 1 minute ago, jeanfluflu said: I'm also thinking, with all those units getting to hit on 2+ and all (paladins, in knight excelsior...etc) what will hapen to our knight azyros do you think? You took this dude to reroll hit rolls of one and that's basically it, raptors loved him. But it seems that GW want to remove all the reroll aspects of the game or at least makes them quite minimal or reserved to legendary heroes. Any thoughts? It’s only one unit at a time, not all of them. And doesn’t matter if they don’t have rend 2. Rend 1 attacks get blocked too easily even if hitting/wounding on 2s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nizrah Posted August 12, 2021 Share Posted August 12, 2021 18 hours ago, jhamslam said: i like it, i made something similar. Dropped Yndrasta (she aint competitive) , dropped one vanguard raptor block for two annhilator blocks. Brought in a lord imperatant for a free CP usage and an incantor I like this idea a lot! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PJetski Posted August 12, 2021 Share Posted August 12, 2021 This... kinda sucks? Stopping a Stomp or Roar isn't that big of an effect since they already have a chance to fail anyway. It'll become more valuable when they start to introduce more rampages through battletomes and other supplements but I would prefer something that is more... evergreen. I hope Astral Templars get something else that's really good in addition to Beast Stalkers. Even in a MONSTER meta stopping monstrous rampages isn't that useful of an ability since we already have a core battalion that can do the same thing for any Troop units. Furthermore, since it's really only as good in a MONSTER heavy meta, once we leave Ghur there won't be a big focus on MONSTER units any more and the Astral Templars will lose a lot of value. I hope I'm wrong and they have some more generic useful stuff too! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeanfluflu Posted August 12, 2021 Share Posted August 12, 2021 3 minutes ago, PJetski said: This... kinda sucks? Stopping a Stomp or Roar isn't that big of an effect since they already have a chance to fail anyway. It'll become more valuable when they start to introduce more rampages through battletomes and other supplements but I would prefer something that is more... evergreen. I hope Astral Templars get something else that's really good in addition to Beast Stalkers. Even in a MONSTER meta stopping monstrous rampages isn't that useful of an ability since we already have a core battalion that can do the same thing for any Troop units. Furthermore, since it's really only as good in a MONSTER heavy meta, once we leave Ghur there won't be a big focus on MONSTER units any more and the Astral Templars will lose a lot of value. I hope I'm wrong and they have some more generic useful stuff too! What they got is palladors battlelines, and this is fun enough to give it a try. count as 6 on objectives, they are also cheap for the mobility and big amount of wounds they deal as well as having a little bit of MW and shooting (can also make their flying 6d6 move to go contest a point elsewhere...Etc). They are definitely not the unit you bring to kill stuff but they definitely offer great utility. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PJetski Posted August 12, 2021 Share Posted August 12, 2021 (edited) 3 minutes ago, jeanfluflu said: What they got is palladors battlelines, and this is fun enough to give it a try. count as 6 on objectives, they are also cheap for the mobility and big amount of wounds they deal as well as having a little bit of MW and shooting (can also make their flying 6d6 move to go contest a point elsewhere...Etc). They are definitely not the unit you bring to kill stuff but they definitely offer great utility. The article wasn't totally clear that battleline Palladors are specific to Astral Templars. They could still be tied to general choices and therefore available to every stormhost, but mentioned in the article because they fit the AT vibe. We also have no idea if/how the Pallador/Hunter warscrolls have changed so it's hard to make a value judgement about making them battleline. I think we can guess that a double reinforced Pallador unit won't be of much use, though. Edited August 12, 2021 by PJetski 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeanfluflu Posted August 12, 2021 Share Posted August 12, 2021 yeah true, i'm definitely excited though! It seems that GW would like stormcast to become the swiss knife army everyone order player would love. veteran players like me will love the fact that we can create all sorts of funny builds with different playstyles. But ultimately you're right, as long as we don't have the warscrolls or the rules every promises or crazy expectations we have can turn to ashe. Do we have a precise due date for this book? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackStreicher Posted August 12, 2021 Share Posted August 12, 2021 7 hours ago, PJetski said: I knew the day would come when I would need a squad of 6 Dracothian Guard I can’t see the image. What is it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhamslam Posted August 13, 2021 Share Posted August 13, 2021 (edited) 6 hours ago, PJetski said: This... kinda sucks? Stopping a Stomp or Roar isn't that big of an effect since they already have a chance to fail anyway. It'll become more valuable when they start to introduce more rampages through battletomes and other supplements but I would prefer something that is more... evergreen. I hope Astral Templars get something else that's really good in addition to Beast Stalkers. Even in a MONSTER meta stopping monstrous rampages isn't that useful of an ability since we already have a core battalion that can do the same thing for any Troop units. Furthermore, since it's really only as good in a MONSTER heavy meta, once we leave Ghur there won't be a big focus on MONSTER units any more and the Astral Templars will lose a lot of value. I hope I'm wrong and they have some more generic useful stuff too! Its for heroes and stuff that doesnt go into hunters of the heartland. If youre taking Stardrakes and Dragons it means they cant Titanic Duel you or Roar You It means you can freely All out Attack or Defense or use any stormhost ability on Yndrasta, Celestant Prime or any fighty hero without being Roared / Stomped. Its narrow for sure, but it means i can invest into more artifact / enhancement heavy battalions without having to account for Hunters of the Heartland. Its not S Tier but certainly good Edited August 13, 2021 by jhamslam 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PJetski Posted August 13, 2021 Share Posted August 13, 2021 (edited) 4 hours ago, JackStreicher said: I can’t see the image. What is it? Not sure why it stopped working, but I reuploaded the photo 6 hours ago, jeanfluflu said: yeah true, i'm definitely excited though! It seems that GW would like stormcast to become the swiss knife army everyone order player would love. veteran players like me will love the fact that we can create all sorts of funny builds with different playstyles. But ultimately you're right, as long as we don't have the warscrolls or the rules every promises or crazy expectations we have can turn to ashe. Do we have a precise due date for this book? Nothing announced yet, but all signs point to preorders Aug 28th Edited August 13, 2021 by PJetski Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrimeElectrid Posted August 13, 2021 Share Posted August 13, 2021 While we can assume there are more warscroll changes coming we nothing else to do but speculate for the next three weeks, so - standout battleline choices so far: * Flying f-ing dragons * 3x scoring liberators or Vindictors (small points difference for a 3+ save) in Stormkeeps * Annihilators (although assuming there are still ways to make a 9” charge reliable). I feel that any other battleline choice has to beat the above which is going to be a big ask. Judicators will really need to justify that new 200 point cost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malakithe Posted August 13, 2021 Share Posted August 13, 2021 Give me battleline thundercats 6 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starfyre Posted August 13, 2021 Share Posted August 13, 2021 Since it's the Knight-Draconis (I think that's what it's called) that makes the Draconith batteline and not a stormhost, then I wonder if the Lord-Arcanum on Dracoline will make the Evocats battleline? Maybe a Knight-Azyros or Venator will make Prosecutors battleline. I didn't feel any excitement for SCE from Dominion despite it being my only AoS army but start to feel it from the new book now. See how the Kruleboyz article is later and maybe Dominion is on the cards after all. Also I think the Vanquishers look fantastic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scurvydog Posted August 13, 2021 Share Posted August 13, 2021 Liberators can score as much as they want on objectives, if I no longer need them to fill battleline they will be dangerously close to be thrown in the bin (not literally though...). Of course it boils down to the stormhost rules, but it does seem like they look far more specialized now, somewhat like Gravelords are doing. As a dracothian guard fan and stardrakes, I just want to go with the list with as many beasties as possible, preferably dracothian guards, stardrake, the drake cav og possibly one of the new named dragons or something. I do like the look of the new vanquishers though, far far cooler than liberators and basically made me not bother painting my vindictors from the dominion box, when will I ever use those guys? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turragor Posted August 13, 2021 Share Posted August 13, 2021 (edited) 16 minutes ago, Scurvydog said: Liberators can score as much as they want on objectives, if I no longer need them to fill battleline they will be dangerously close to be thrown in the bin (not literally though...). Of course it boils down to the stormhost rules, but it does seem like they look far more specialized now, somewhat like Gravelords are doing. As a dracothian guard fan and stardrakes, I just want to go with the list with as many beasties as possible, preferably dracothian guards, stardrake, the drake cav og possibly one of the new named dragons or something. I do like the look of the new vanquishers though, far far cooler than liberators and basically made me not bother painting my vindictors from the dominion box, when will I ever use those guys? Battleline is interesting. I think before we hop to decide what warscroll is best, we should factor in: Battle tactics - including those that are already tough for SCE to pull off, Grand strategy, and Subfaction/Stormhost strengths (ofc we should also wait for new book) I am as excited for AetherAnnihilation as the next player but, while 3x 'Super Unit X' sounds great as battleline - that's a thought that has grown from our elite & expensive faction restriction. It may be best to have a lib unit or 2 still that sits on objectives between Yndra and regens. Then take 2 x 4 dracothian guard and play hammers. Maybe it's best to take Astral Templars and go pure Palladors for mobility on the objectives and then the rest of the list is some kind of new ranged spice - capable of clearing the objectives the Palladors need to land on. Perhaps the new Dragon unit has the monsters keyword, 14" move, fly and mini mw breath, meaning a list with them, their hero and Krondys becomes seriously sexy. Perhaps you shoehorn those units into stormkeeps and take some CoS chaff /ranged as you won't really need scions. Who knows. We've paid a battleline tax with one of the worst warscrolls for so long that we're like kids writing a shopping list before visiting the supermarket: it's just lists of sweets. It will be nice to have freedom, but as all parents advise their kids, you shouldn't eat just candy if you want to grow into a big, strong ... AoS army list ... .. Edited August 13, 2021 by Turragor 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scurvydog Posted August 13, 2021 Share Posted August 13, 2021 10 minutes ago, Turragor said: It will be nice to have freedom, but as all parents advise their kids, you shouldn't eat just candy if you want to grow into a big, strong ... AoS army list ... .. Great now I just have mental images of warhammer geeks in baby chairs being force fed spoons of green liberators, thanks I hate it 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeanfluflu Posted August 13, 2021 Share Posted August 13, 2021 37 minutes ago, Turragor said: We've paid a battleline tax with one of the worst warscrolls for so long that we're like kids writing a shopping list before visiting the supermarket: it's just lists of sweets. Speaking of sweets, i'm currently building my dracoth and all for the dragon army we're all waiting for. But the more i look at it the more a celestial angelic force driven by yndrasta and a host of knights excelssior paladins and a bunch of prosecutors seems like a thematic list filled with promises and great conversion possibilities. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrimeElectrid Posted August 13, 2021 Share Posted August 13, 2021 (edited) 57 minutes ago, Turragor said: Battleline is interesting. I think before we hop to decide what warscroll is best, we should factor in: Battle tactics - including those that are already tough for SCE to pull off, Grand strategy, and Subfaction/Stormhost strengths (ofc we should also wait for new book) I am as excited for AetherAnnihilation as the next player but, while 3x 'Super Unit X' sounds great as battleline - that's a thought that has grown from our elite & expensive faction restriction. It may be best to have a lib unit or 2 still that sits on objectives between Yndra and regens. Then take 2 x 4 dracothian guard and play hammers. Maybe it's best to take Astral Templars and go pure Palladors for mobility on the objectives and then the rest of the list is some kind of new ranged spice - capable of clearing the objectives the Palladors need to land on. Perhaps the new Dragon unit has the monsters keyword, 14" move, fly and mini mw breath, meaning a list with them, their hero and Krondys becomes seriously sexy. Perhaps you shoehorn those units into stormkeeps and take some CoS chaff /ranged as you won't really need scions. Who knows. We've paid a battleline tax with one of the worst warscrolls for so long that we're like kids writing a shopping list before visiting the supermarket: it's just lists of sweets. It will be nice to have freedom, but as all parents advise their kids, you shouldn't eat just candy if you want to grow into a big, strong ... AoS army list ... .. The only battle tactics I struggle to score are: * Monstrous Takeover, because I don’t run any monsters * Slay the Warlord where the general is Archaon or a 5++ mega gargant, and my entire 2000 point list probably still can’t kill them. * Broken Ranks into PE OBR or gargants where again it takes a huge investment of force with still some risk MT is resolved by having battleline monsters, and the other two by having even more damage - which battleline annihilators or dragons get you (presumably) Conquer and Aggressive Expansion you should be doing anyway. Ferocious Advance is trivial, as is Savage Spearhead for any army with easy access to deep strike and fliers. Bring it down is just another question of force application where more = better. All Liberators help you do is hold objectives and stop your enemy from taking them - which they can’t do if they are dead from annihilator/dragon spam. They are very very good at holding objectives in a Stormkeep, which is why I still put them up there, but I don’t think they help with battle tactics. Hold the line on 2+ save battleline or 3+ save flying monster battleline is much better than liberators, too. Edited August 13, 2021 by PrimeElectrid 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcvs Posted August 13, 2021 Share Posted August 13, 2021 36 minutes ago, PrimeElectrid said: Hold the line on 2+ save battleline or 3+ save flying monster battleline is much better than liberators, too. The big question is also if we're going to get some decent MW defense. If the enemy has a lot of MW I'd rather have 60 wounds counting as 90 bodies on objectives than 27 wounds and 9 bodies. I can see how a Stormkeep army might struggle more with battle tactics but it's still the one which draws me most atm, so I hope that some of the stormhost will synergyses well with that side Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrimeElectrid Posted August 13, 2021 Share Posted August 13, 2021 3 minutes ago, Marcvs said: The big question is also if we're going to get some decent MW defense. If the enemy has a lot of MW I'd rather have 60 wounds counting as 90 bodies on objectives than 27 wounds and 9 bodies. I can see how a Stormkeep army might struggle more with battle tactics but it's still the one which draws me most atm, so I hope that some of the stormhost will synergyses well with that side That’s a fair point. I’m braced for no MW protection at all outside of characters. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sleepa Posted August 13, 2021 Share Posted August 13, 2021 Man, you guys were right about Yndrasta. She's tough as nails, but just never feels like she gives 300 points worth of output. So disappointing. On the plus side, I messed around with 3 Raptors with Hurricane crossbows I snagged in a trade, and they overperformed like mad. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhamslam Posted August 14, 2021 Share Posted August 14, 2021 I wanna temper some battleline expectations in here. I doubt they'll give us Pure Paladin Battleline availability without a tax. Chances are we might get a LRL thing where for each REDEEMER (Lib or Sequitor) we get to take a Paladin as Battleline. Still good Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freejack02 Posted August 14, 2021 Share Posted August 14, 2021 14 hours ago, Sleepa said: Man, you guys were right about Yndrasta. She's tough as nails, but just never feels like she gives 300 points worth of output. Well, she's not 300 points because of her melee profile - she's tough, can res a lot of our infantry, gives a no-battleshock bubble, has a 12" fly, can snipe out support heroes, and neuters monsters. Honestly she's 1 wizard's cap away from being maybe the coolest swiss army knife in the game. I do agree that she's probably not tournament optimal where you want everything to perform a certain role exceptionally well, but she's not a bad unit by any means (at least in the whopping 3 games I've played of 3.0 so far). 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PJetski Posted August 14, 2021 Share Posted August 14, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, jhamslam said: I wanna temper some battleline expectations in here. I doubt they'll give us Pure Paladin Battleline availability without a tax. Chances are we might get a LRL thing where for each REDEEMER (Lib or Sequitor) we get to take a Paladin as Battleline. Still good The tax is that you have to play Knights Excelsior Edited August 14, 2021 by PJetski 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhamslam Posted August 14, 2021 Share Posted August 14, 2021 1 minute ago, PJetski said: The tax is that you have to play Knights Excelsior 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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