AoS 2 - Stormcast Eternals Discussion

[PJetski]

5 minutes ago, Juicy said:

Fair enough if you took 1 battalion you could get an extra mount trait.

Still your ignore the first paragraph where its telling you one hero can have a mount trait. We got nothing right now that tells says you can have more then one mount trait in any way. Also there is no where writen that 1 hero can have more then 1 mount trait.  First paragraph explains it al. Im not sure why you read that differant then i do. 

You don't need a special rule to take an Enhancement

[Domize]

Quick question - does the new "9.2 Remaining Stationary" section in the Core Rules mean that units dropping down from Scions of the Storm don't count as remaining stationary? Or do they have to have been on board beforehand to 'remain stationary', and therefore did not move in the movement phase? Mainly curious because of units like the Vanguard Raptors and their Rapid Fire. 

Edited July 20, 2021 by Domize

[Mark Williams]

3 hours ago, Juicy said:

Fair enough if you took 1 battalion you could get an extra mount trait.

Still your ignore the first paragraph where its telling you one hero can have a mount trait. We got nothing right now that tells says you can have more then one mount trait in any way. Also there is no where writen that 1 hero can have more then 1 mount trait.  First paragraph explains it al. Im not sure why you read that differant then i do. 

Sometimes when a rule is vaguely written or it's some sort of paradoxical situation (ie. Longstrike Raptors shooting +6 in the hero phase because they haven't moved yet), some people will take the most beneficial interpretation of the rule and call it RAW because without a FAQ telling them they can't, the grey area gives them leeway to interpret it however they like.

In this situation, with a mount with multiple enhancements, I'd check to see if other armies with similar rules are doing the same thing, as I think that mount traits are pretty common across multiple books. If a lot of other armies are doing this, then maybe the game designers truly intended the way things are done to shift with the new edition.

I agree it seems strange to change the way a fundamental game mechanic works because of chopping up and adding extra rules etc... It seems FAR more likely that this is just a loophole that the designers overlooked. This is a case where it would be really helpful if the rules designers and FAQ writers had a faster turnaround or perhaps even an open forum for gamers to ask rules questions of them.

However..... the book isn't going to be valid in a month, and the argument isn't worth exhausting yourself over. Let people do potentially illegal things for a few weeks. Nothing with the old book matters anymore. If this type of vagueness lasts into the next battletome, by all means let's spam GW with FAQ questions and hope they address it.

[Mark Williams]

3 hours ago, Domize said:

Quick question - does the new "9.2 Remaining Stationary" section in the Core Rules mean that units dropping down from Scions of the Storm don't count as remaining stationary? Or do they have to have been on board beforehand to 'remain stationary', and therefore did not move in the movement phase? Mainly curious because of units like the Vanguard Raptors and their Rapid Fire. 

One of the new FAQ questions confirms that units that redeply don't count as moving. What you can or cannot do after redeployment will be covered in the ability text rather than the core rules (ie. most redployment or setups specify that you cannot move in your movement phase).

Q: Some abilities allow a unit to be set up ‘instead of making a normal move’. Does a unit set up with such an ability count as having moved? A: No, unless the ability specifically states otherwise.

Edited July 20, 2021 by Mark Williams

[TheArborealWalrus]

So there's a lot of Lumineth players in my area. Does anyone have strategies for how to handle the cross board sniping/tons of magic? I thought I was being cheeky keeping everything in the sky, but without a better charge I'm not so sure that plan works anymore. From experience the archers are pretty durable for squishy boys too. (easily get a 4+, 5++, with -1 to hit. That's tougher than most of our guys) Any suggestions for fighting them before the new book? We've got 1-2 tournaments I'm supposed to help them practice for later this month and early next month. Want to make a fight of it at least.

Thanks for any help, cheers.

[Champasaur]

7 hours ago, TheArborealWalrus said:

So there's a lot of Lumineth players in my area. Does anyone have strategies for how to handle the cross board sniping/tons of magic? I thought I was being cheeky keeping everything in the sky, but without a better charge I'm not so sure that plan works anymore. From experience the archers are pretty durable for squishy boys too. (easily get a 4+, 5++, with -1 to hit. That's tougher than most of our guys) Any suggestions for fighting them before the new book? We've got 1-2 tournaments I'm supposed to help them practice for later this month and early next month. Want to make a fight of it at least.

Thanks for any help, cheers.

I saw someone talking about how it might be a good idea to not bring casters/magic if your opponent has a super-caster on the field like Teclis/Kroak/Nagash. The super-casters are so dominant that it will be nigh-impossible to get spells off. So don't build an army that relies on magic like Translocation or STD Mask of Darkness unless you are also bringing a super-caster. Other than that I'm not too sure myself. I have a friend who plays Teclis and I have had a very tough time dealing with him. Most of my strategies involve just avoiding Teclis or distracting him as much as I can *shrugs*

[Naem]

This is why in WHFB times we had a set house rule "no named models" and I kinda still stick to it. Besides that I find it a bit weird lore wise to see the biggest heroes suddenly taking part in small skirmishes, I always felt that most named chars are not well balanced. 

[Lucur]

I have no first hand experience vs Lumineth, but from what i read and hear, having Teclis and a 20 steong unit of Sentinels is basically half their army. They are therefore light on objectives, which means with quality MSU units you might contest their capability to score, while throwing something really dangerous (Evocators, maybe dracolines or Dracothian guard, even Yndrasta) towards Teclis. The man is squishy for his points, so a threat has to be dealt with. Thus they either save their ability to score or their center piece. If you want to tailor lists, don't bring casters v Teclis and (many) support heroes v Sentinel spam. Sequitors might be preferrable to Libbies due to fnp vs. mortals from spells and archers.

Just my 2ct of theory

Afterthought regarding casters, a Knight Incantor or two might still be valuable if you can dodge the sentinels to auto dispell protection of teclis...

Edited July 21, 2021 by Lucur

[jeanfluflu]

9 hours ago, TheArborealWalrus said:

So there's a lot of Lumineth players in my area. Does anyone have strategies for how to handle the cross board sniping/tons of magic? I thought I was being cheeky keeping everything in the sky, but without a better charge I'm not so sure that plan works anymore. From experience the archers are pretty durable for squishy boys too. (easily get a 4+, 5++, with -1 to hit. That's tougher than most of our guys) Any suggestions for fighting them before the new book? We've got 1-2 tournaments I'm supposed to help them practice for later this month and early next month. Want to make a fight of it at least.

Thanks for any help, cheers.

If the lumineth is playing Teclis longstrike raptors are your friends.
You will never outshine him in magic anyway so bring him down to your level.

For his cost in points Teclis is a massive dude with only 16hp and a 4+ save, a couple of shots with longstrikes will calm him down ( a unit of 6 raptors in anvil of heldenhammer can deal something between 8 and 14 wounds per turn depending if he has his aetherquartz or not).
That's a lot of pressure you will put on his central piece and he will be forced to consider shooting your longstrikes or deal with the rest (this is only 370pts you can pressure him eslwhere with the rest of your army).

I think the key in this matchup is to overload him with threats so he has to make a choice.

Also a lumineth player will more likely want to play firts in order to cast all his buffs, you can take advantage of that cause you might get the double turn immediately (round one and two).
Similarly if you create an army list that has a low amount of poses you might steal his first turn.

Not gonna lie anyway lumineth are tough for us, they can snipe and delete our support heroes and deals tons of MW, which is something we can't do much about.

I hope it helps.

[SchleuderMann2]

I think a stardrake with 5+ ward should be good. If the archers try to kill him they have to invest a lot of time and if not, he will give all lrl -1 to cast which is huge. Surely he does not as much damage but he can eat 3 of them every time he fights.  Maybe you play him even in anvils with 6 raptors just as @jeanfluflusaid

[OkayestDM]

21 minutes ago, SchleuderMann2 said:

I think a stardrake with 5+ ward should be good. If the archers try to kill him they have to invest a lot of time and if not, he will give all lrl -1 to cast which is huge. Surely he does not as much damage but he can eat 3 of them every time he fights.  Maybe you play him even in anvils with 6 raptors just as @jeanfluflusaid

Very importantly, if he eats a unit champion, that unit can no longer cast spells.

[LordPrometheus]

7 hours ago, Champasaur said:

I saw someone talking about how it might be a good idea to not bring casters/magic if your opponent has a super-caster on the field like Teclis/Kroak/Nagash. The super-casters are so dominant that it will be nigh-impossible to get spells off. So don't build an army that relies on magic like Translocation or STD Mask of Darkness unless you are also bringing a super-caster. 

Translocation is a Prayer. It can't be unbound.

[Champasaur]

Ofc silly me. I'm still in a STD mindset where Mask of Darkness is my spell that teleports.

 

[Abstract_duck]

23 hours ago, Mark Williams said:

One of the new FAQ questions confirms that units that redeply don't count as moving. What you can or cannot do after redeployment will be covered in the ability text rather than the core rules (ie. most redployment or setups specify that you cannot move in your movement phase).

Q: Some abilities allow a unit to be set up ‘instead of making a normal move’. Does a unit set up with such an ability count as having moved? A: No, unless the ability specifically states otherwise.

What FAQ states that? It seems quite relevant to a discussion in the sylvaneth forum a while back, in regards to the new wyldwoods and treelords

[PrimeElectrid]

Hot take: translocation is CRAZY good right now, cash in while you can!

[Drofnum]

1 hour ago, PrimeElectrid said:

Hot take: translocation is CRAZY good right now, cash in while you can!

Not sure how thats a hot take, its always been really good.

[PJetski]

2 hours ago, PrimeElectrid said:

Hot take: translocation is CRAZY good right now, cash in while you can!

What's the best use of Translocation you can think of right now? 10x Evocators?

[TheArborealWalrus]

Thanks for all the comments. I had been wanting to bring my star drake out before everyone recommended him, so I have no excuse now. I made these 2 lists with him in it.

List 1: 1995pts - No stormhost - 1 Command battalion, 2 Beast hunter battalions

Spoiler

C - 450pts - Drakesworn templar - General, Staunch Defender - Amulet of destiny(5++), Thunderlord

C - 300pts - Yndrasta

C - 125pts - Apotheosis vexilor - lichebone standard (heal 1 wound every hero phase for units within 9")

B1 - 280pts - 10 vindictors

B2 - 280pts - 10 vindictors

C - 150pts - 5 judicators - bows

B2 - 150pts - 5 judicators - bows

B1 - 130pts - 6 gryphhounds

B2 - 130pts - 6 gryphhounds

List 2: 1990pts - No stormhost - 1 Command battalion, 2 beast hunter battalions

Spoiler

C - 450pts - Drakesworn templar - General, Staunch defender - Amulet of destiny(5++), Thunderlord

C - 300pts - Yndrasta

C - 125pts - Apotheosis vexilor - lichebone standard (heal 1 wound every hero phase for units within 9")

C - 45pts - 3 aetherwings

B1 - 280pts - 10 vindictors

B1 - 185pts - 3 longstrike raptors

B1 - 95pts - 5 liberators - sword and board + greatblade

B2 - 280pts - 10 vindictors

B2 - 185pts - 3 longstrike raptors

B2 - 45pts - 3 aetherwings

The basic strategy is to grind the enemy to dust against a 2+ save shield wall that respawns (from Yndrasta) and rain death on them. The drake drops meteors and deals with hordes until the wall reaches the enemy. I considered taking hammers of sigmar to have a 3+, 6++ and maybe spawn in a 10 man unit again if something goes wrong. Wouldn't be hard to swap it. I'll be using the deep strike to drop one (or more) of my bricks onto objectives and/or hide from shooting alpha strikes. 

The templar is taken because I like the -2" pile in axe and he's cheaper. Thunderlord to help against possible hordes and staunch defender because "staunch spear wall" meme(and 2+ save). Apotheosis vexilor is there to set up and heal any badly damaged vindictor unit before I send them out again. He'll be better against non alpha strike shooting armies. At worst he gets nuked turn 1 instead of something more important(or I keep him in the sky for a turn or 2). The animals are there as fast movers and screens. I like gryph hounds and they can make troublesome combat order choices. They also hurt other deep strike armies. Aetherwings are fast, they fly, and are 100% expendable. The shooters are there to lay down some hurt ... which the raptors are better at, but they're very easy to kill. 6 wounds and they're gone. When they drop, they have to hurt or I'm not going too do well. Vindictors are reliable and I can use that 10 man unit to keep respawning from Yndrasta and the vexilor. 

I unfortunately don't have the raptors, but I'll proxy when I try them. Any suggestions? I'm tryin for a list to take on not just Teclis and friends. Cheers!

For Sigmar!

[Marcvs]

4 hours ago, TheArborealWalrus said:

 

List 1: 1995pts - No stormhost - 1 Command battalion, 2 Beast hunter battalions

List 2: 1990pts - No stormhost - 1 Command battalion, 2 beast hunter battalions

 

just a quick heads up: you can't pick the ghb2021 battalions more than once

[PrimeElectrid]

5 hours ago, PJetski said:

What's the best use of Translocation you can think of right now? 10x Evocators?

Has to be Evocators for the MW output. Rend 1 (which all other combat unit utilise) is utter garbage.

That being said the utility is less in TPing a combat unit and more in getting stuff around the board for objectives and putting pressure on your opponent who has to keep it in mind.

[mystycalchemy]

6 hours ago, Marcvs said:

just a quick heads up: you can't pick the ghb2021 battalions more than once

Can you confirm where this is in the ghb? Thanks!

15 hours ago, PrimeElectrid said:

Hot take: translocation is CRAZY good right now, cash in while you can!

Is translocation good because you can move after or just a hero phase teleport is good? I can't imagine the move after teleport is intended and will likely get FAQ'd (or fixed in the book)

[PJetski]

3 minutes ago, mystycalchemy said:

Can you confirm where this is in the ghb? Thanks!

Is translocation good because you can move after or just a hero phase teleport is good? I can't imagine the move after teleport is intended and will likely get FAQ'd (or fixed in the book)

It's in the text immediately above the battalions

Translocation is really good right now because you can move after teleporting.

[PrimeElectrid]

40 minutes ago, mystycalchemy said:

Can you confirm where this is in the ghb? Thanks!

Is translocation good because you can move after or just a hero phase teleport is good? I can't imagine the move after teleport is intended and will likely get FAQ'd (or fixed in the book)

Move after teleport.

Created opportunities every turn.

[mystycalchemy]

6 hours ago, PrimeElectrid said:

Move after teleport.

Created opportunities every turn.

Gotcha. Im expecting that to be fixed in the battletome, so I'll just hold off from doin that until its confirmed that's the intent lmao

[PrimeElectrid]

22 minutes ago, mystycalchemy said:

Gotcha. Im expecting that to be fixed in the battletome, so I'll just hold off from doin that until its confirmed that's the intent lmao

It’s legit until a new ruling says otherwise 🤷‍♂️