AoS 2 - Stormcast Eternals Discussion

[PJetski]

11 minutes ago, nine7six said:

does the lord celestant on dracoth thundershield still do 1 mortal wound for each successful rerolled save or is it just 1 mortal wound now total no matter how many rerolls?

The former,1 mw per rerolled save

[DanielFM]

4 hours ago, Requizen said:

Also remember that Stormcast units are -1 to hit the turn they are Set Up. So if they kill a unit of Sequitors in shooting, and then you return them with the HoS ability, anything that charges them will be -1 to hit. 

So do you think Pennant of the Stormbringer, Translocation or Azyrite Hurricane trigger Shock and Awe? That would make them extra interesting.

[PJetski]

1 minute ago, DanielFM said:

So do you think Pennant of the Stormbringer, Translocation or Azyrite Hurricane trigger Shock and Awe? That would make them extra interesting.

Yes, RAW any time you set up the unit you get Shock and Awe.

[Martijn de Bruin]

Do you roll once for the Cometstrike Sceptre or do you roll separately for each unit within range?

What is everyone's thoughts on his updated warscroll?

Edited July 5, 2018 by Martijn de Bruin
Spelling mistake

[Haldawe]

The new warscroll allowing to put the charge an automatic 12" makes me moist.

Also, I drop him on 1rst turn to go all Sephirot on the enemy heros, so the extra attack is really welcome.

As for the new wording on the sceptre... I would still roll one for each unit separatelly

[Requizen]

31 minutes ago, PJetski said:

Yes, RAW any time you set up the unit you get Shock and Awe.

Yeah Aquilor is quite good with that change. Set up Palladors 7" away and charge, they're pretty hard to hurt that round. 

[chord]

1 hour ago, Haldawe said:

The new warscroll allowing to put the charge an automatic 12" makes me moist.

Also, I drop him on 1rst turn to go all Sephirot on the enemy heros, so the extra attack is really welcome.

As for the new wording on the sceptre... I would still roll one for each unit separatelly

yeah auto 12" charged on a charged up CP sounds great!

[DanielFM]

1 hour ago, Requizen said:

Yeah Aquilor is quite good with that change. Set up Palladors 7" away and charge, they're pretty hard to hurt that round. 

They were working nicely already for me with the "buff them (Warding Lantern, Blessed Weapons) and beam them up" trick, now they will be even better as soft tanks/roadblocks. 

Plus, you set up both the Aquilor and the Palladors on the table (giving you two Scions units) but effectively get them to teleport later. Cheaper Hunters and great Hurricane Raptors have made Vanguard themed lists playable beyond fluffy games.

[Mrmattywoodz]

On 7/4/2018 at 12:04 AM, Trayanee said:

Is anyone still going to use paladins? Which do you think are viable? Evocators and their MW output makes Retributors obsolete to me especially with the spell and unbind being a bonus for Evocators. Protectors are still not bad for fighting monsters, provide cover and are easier to take in larger units so they could be ok in their niche, but I quite like the Decimators if they were really changed to count every model of every unit around them to determine the attack count.

I'll be replacting most of my paladins with evocators when the new multi-part kits come out.

[Freejack02]

A question (which I should already know) about timing on dmg/healing with a Castellant lantern buff. Say I have a Stardrake with warding lantern on, and he's got 5 damage incoming from an enemy unit in the combat phase; but also 4 heals incoming. 

1. Am I allowed to allocate the wounds/heals in any order I wish?

2. Must I apply all wounds, or all heals at once? Or can I alternate at my discretion? If it were instead a Liberator unit, could I alternate wound/heal/wound/heal etc meaning I would only lose a single wound on one model?

3. Has anything about these interactions changed in 2.0?

Thanks, I've never really worked out the specifics of Warding Lantern. 

 

[ledha]

1 hour ago, Freejack02 said:

A question (which I should already know) about timing on dmg/healing with a Castellant lantern buff. Say I have a Stardrake with warding lantern on, and he's got 5 damage incoming from an enemy unit in the combat phase; but also 4 heals incoming. 

1. Am I allowed to allocate the wounds/heals in any order I wish?

2. Must I apply all wounds, or all heals at once? Or can I alternate at my discretion? If it were instead a Liberator unit, could I alternate wound/heal/wound/heal etc meaning I would only lose a single wound on one model?

3. Has anything about these interactions changed in 2.0?

Thanks, I've never really worked out the specifics of Warding Lantern. 

 

you heal first, then take wound.

Making it very good on a stardrake close to death, less cool on a unit

[ShadowSwordmaster]

So, is the Knight-Zephyros model just Neave but with the helmet on?

Edited July 6, 2018 by ShadowSwordmaster

[Wired4War]

17 minutes ago, ShadowSwordmaster said:

So, is the Knight-Zephyros model just Neave but with the helmet on?

That's my guess. They need to have non character versions for non Hammers hosts.

[Erdemo86]

Do we got any good new batallions in the new book?

[Bellfree]

6 hours ago, DanielFM said:

They were working nicely already for me with the "buff them (Warding Lantern, Blessed Weapons) and beam them up" trick, now they will be even better as soft tanks/roadblocks. 

Plus, you set up both the Aquilor and the Palladors on the table (giving you two Scions units) but effectively get them to teleport later. Cheaper Hunters and great Hurricane Raptors have made Vanguard themed lists playable beyond fluffy games.

I'd still pass on hunters, they're not the sick joke they used to be but between Judicators still being one of the most consistently useful units in the game and sequitors being surprisingly baller for 120pts they're still generally a flavor unit.

A lot of new life overall for Vanguard chamber tbh. Between Chronomatic cogs and the reroll charges universal CA you're looking at a 5+ rerollable charge basically anywhere on the table for palladors(one of the few units to actually get cheaper in the new book). Haven't seen the hurricane crossbows warscroll yet but being cheaper and apparently more useful will hopefully let them see some play. Vanguard hunters are now more comparable to liberators than they were...unfortunately that means that they're still worse than judicators or sequitors.

All of that being said, I'm still fairly certain that the actual power of the new book is going to be entirely determined by just how abusive Anvils of Heldenhammer and Celestial Vindicators command abilities are. If you can wrap up a large portion of your opponents army in sequitors, evocators, palladors, what have you and then give them +4 or +5 attacks with Vindicators, you could conceivably obliterate a huge chunk of your opponents forces, or completely eliminate beastclaw raider, Ironjaws, Deepkin, or other 'elite' armies outright. Similarly Anvils lists will be able to send just a stupid amount of firepower downfield with only a handful of armies having the resilience/speed necessary to survive long enough to counter attack.

Now maybe GW have seen these issues in playtesting and have determined that the counter measures available to opposing forces (many of which I'm sure people who didn't get this far are 'yeah but'ing with at this very moment) combined with the investment necessary to take advantage of these incredibly powerful abilities means that they won't actually turn out to be all that big of a deal.  Personally I doubt it and think that these CAs are going to define the army for a while but I we'll have to wait the requisite 3ish months for things to shake out to know for sure.

[Bellfree]

14 hours ago, Kadanga said:

From the rules:

NAMED CHARACTERS
"Named characters such as Nagash, Archaon and Alarielle are singular and mighty warriors, with their own personalities and artefacts of power. As such, these models cannot have a command trait or artefact of power."

So there should be no limit on named characters for mount traits, prayers or spell lores.

That looks a lot more like 'typical GW oversight' than 'implicit permission' to me. Gonna need an FAQ.

[DanielFM]

1 hour ago, Erdemo86 said:

Do we got any good new batallions in the new book?

Soulstrike Brotherhood is quite nice and cheap. 2x hunters, 2x Castigators and a Ballista. If the Sacrosanct units drop a turn in which hunters were already on the table, they get +1 shot.

52 minutes ago, Bellfree said:

I'd still pass on hunters, they're not the sick joke they used to be but between Judicators still being one of the most consistently useful units in the game and sequitors being surprisingly baller for 120pts they're still generally a flavor unit.

A lot of new life overall for Vanguard chamber tbh. Between Chronomatic cogs and the reroll charges universal CA you're looking at a 5+ rerollable charge basically anywhere on the table for palladors(one of the few units to actually get cheaper in the new book). Haven't seen the hurricane crossbows warscroll yet but being cheaper and apparently more useful will hopefully let them see some play. Vanguard hunters are now more comparable to liberators than they were...unfortunately that means that they're still worse than judicators or sequitors.

For me, they are now clearly preferable to Liberators (which bring nothing but being 20 points cheaper), and they save some points VS fielding full Judicators. Of course they are still not netlist worth, but they are not a shot in the foot. They will be great to tie things Up without depending heavily on resources like Cogs, Gabriel, etc.

My lists will have two different cores:

-Lord Aquilor, 2x Hunters, Judicators

-Lord Arcanum, 2x Sequitors, Judicators.

And work combos from there.

[Bellfree]

2 hours ago, DanielFM said:

Soulstrike Brotherhood is quite nice and cheap. 2x hunters, 2x Castigators and a Ballista. If the Sacrosanct units drop a turn in which hunters were already on the table, they get +1 shot.

For me, they are now clearly preferable to Liberators (which bring nothing but being 20 points cheaper), and they save some points VS fielding full Judicators. Of course they are still not netlist worth, but they are not a shot in the foot. They will be great to tie things Up without depending heavily on resources like Cogs, Gabriel, etc.

My lists will have two different cores:

-Lord Aquilor, 2x Hunters, Judicators

-Lord Arcanum, 2x Sequitors, Judicators.

And work combos from there.

They're about the same as liberators tbh.  They do next to nothing in melee, doing 3.5 wounds to a 4+ save the turn they shoot and 1.833 the turn they don't, which averages out to about the same as liberators at the cost of being a fair bit more fragile, they lose effectiveness faster than liberators do as almost half of the liberator unit's damage output is concentrated into the prime, they don't self buff against 5+ wound models (which puts them even further down compared to liberators damage output.)

Basically, to get the most out of Vanguard Hunters I think you'll need to 100% be abusing their sneakiness to force your opponent to answer you on flanks. Vanguard Hunters are just resilient enough that your opponent will have to send more than their points value of units to clear them out most of the time. I would caution against using them to try and tie up anything scarier than a light cavalry unit. Even something like Reikenor the grimhailer or an opposing LCoD will trash them in a turn after battleshock.

Like I said, they're useful now, but they still can't really fight anything.

[DanielFM]

40 minutes ago, Bellfree said:

They're about the same as liberators tbh.  They do next to nothing in melee, doing 3.5 wounds to a 4+ save the turn they shoot and 1.833 the turn they don't, which averages out to about the same as liberators at the cost of being a fair bit more fragile, they lose effectiveness faster than liberators do as almost half of the liberator unit's damage output is concentrated into the prime, they don't self buff against 5+ wound models (which puts them even further down compared to liberators damage output.)

Basically, to get the most out of Vanguard Hunters I think you'll need to 100% be abusing their sneakiness to force your opponent to answer you on flanks. Vanguard Hunters are just resilient enough that your opponent will have to send more than their points value of units to clear them out most of the time. I would caution against using them to try and tie up anything scarier than a light cavalry unit. Even something like Reikenor the grimhailer or an opposing LCoD will trash them in a turn after battleshock.

Like I said, they're useful now, but they still can't really fight anything.

Take this into account: as they come closer the turn they set-up, they have it easier to charge, so they have an almost guaranteed -1 to hit in close combat. That adds to their survability quite a bit. Plus, Mystic shield helps them while being useless for Liberators.

[Warfiend]

I've thought of something ridiculous, yet there are no rules I know off that say it's not allowed to do this;


A wizard on a Dais Arcanum on a Balewind Vortex (accompanied by cogs because why not right). Now my Knight-Incantor can cast three spells and unbind two, it gets +2 to save resulting in a 1+ save and she can reroll failed saves. But wait, it could get even better (I'm somewhat confused here), what if instead of putting a wizard on a Dias Arcanum on a Balewind Vortex, you put a wizard on a Balewind Vortex on a Dais Arcanum.

It reads "A wizard on a Balewind Vortex can not move" but it also reads "...the caster and the Balewind Vortex are treated as a single model" and the Dais Arcanum reads "A model on a Dais Arcanum has a Move characteristic of 12" and can fly".  One could argue that "can not move" negates any move characteristic, but then again a "wizard on a Balewind Vortex" isn't a "wizard on a Balewind Vortex on a Dais Arcanum".

[Kadanga]

18 minutes ago, Warfiend said:

I've thought of something ridiculous, yet there are no rules I know off that say it's not allowed to do this;


A wizard on a Dais Arcanum on a Balewind Vortex (accompanied by cogs because why not right). Now my Knight-Incantor can cast three spells and unbind two, it gets +2 to save resulting in a 1+ save and she can reroll failed saves. But wait, it could get even better (I'm somewhat confused here), what if instead of putting a wizard on a Dias Arcanum on a Balewind Vortex, you put a wizard on a Balewind Vortex on a Dais Arcanum.

It reads "A wizard on a Balewind Vortex can not move" but it also reads "...the caster and the Balewind Vortex are treated as a single model" and the Dais Arcanum reads "A model on a Dais Arcanum has a Move characteristic of 12" and can fly".  One could argue that "can not move" negates any move characteristic, but then again a "wizard on a Balewind Vortex" isn't a "wizard on a Balewind Vortex on a Dais Arcanum".

Madness! It would take you atleast two turns though since a wizard can only attempt cast one endless spell per turn. Three turns if you don't have a wizard buddy to set up the cogs next to your Tower of Power(TM) 

[Turragor]

Hardly more OP than other combos.

Sadly I dont think this is intended

[Ragnar72]

Hi, has anyone seen a hint or something for the digital battletome on ibooks?

so far , it is only on pre order at warhammer digital, and even there is no preview as usual?

On ibooks it is missing completely at this moment.

[Trayanee]

On 7/4/2018 at 4:36 PM, PJetski said:

I was thinking something along these lines, but with Dracolines instead. 

Dracolines are 100ppm compared to the 120ppm for Fulminators, and they give Look Out Sir a lot easier than Dracoths.

Dracolines natively reroll charges and do D3 damage instead of 1 on the charge.

Lord Arcanum on Dracoline with Pride Leader mount trait to give all Dracolines +1 hit (for all weapons) and can use his command ability to give +1 attack to Dracoline monstrous claws.

You drop 3 unbinds directly into play, and after the deep strike charge turn you can start casting buffs. Add in a Heraldor to make sure you can retreat & charge later.

Seems fun, and possibly even viable in competitive play.

You can also toss a Burning Head into range before your deep strike to reroll hit1

I have been thinking about such a list too, but I am worried about spending that many points on Dracolines, who without the charge don't look worth their cost especially against hard hitting fulminators. The celestial lightning arc has a lot worse power for point ratio on them than on their not mounted brethren and I feel like with just rend -1  and/or no rend at all they won't be able to take down well-armored targets on their alpha strike. Do you think its possible to complement them well to make a semi-competitive list?

It seems like Gavriel, LAoDL, two units of Dracolines and a full unit of Sequitors to be empowered are a given especially with hammers CA available. That's already 1360 points and 5 units to be put into Scions. I was thinking about Judicators to fill the remaining battlelines but that leaves me with just 320 points for support heroes and some objective takers. That's probably a Heraldor and?

[Kadanga]

14 minutes ago, Trayanee said:

I have been thinking about such a list too, but I am worried about spending that many points on Dracolines, who without the charge don't look worth their cost especially against hard hitting fulminators. The celestial lightning arc has a lot worse power for point ratio on them than on their not mounted brethren and I feel like with just rend -1  and/or no rend at all they won't be able to take down well-armored targets on their alpha strike. Do you think its possible to complement them well to make a semi-competitive list?

It seems like Gavriel, LAoDL, two units of Dracolines and a full unit of Sequitors to be empowered are a given especially with hammers CA available. That's already 1360 points and 5 units to be put into Scions. I was thinking about Judicators to fill the remaining battlelines but that leaves me with just 320 points for support heroes and some objective takers. That's probably a Heraldor and?

That sounds like it will be one crowded drop, 7 dracolines with support is already quite the footprint, I feel that 20 sequitors on top of that is going to work out sub-par, especially if your opponent knows how to screen. Shouldn't you be empowering the dracolines if you invest 600 points into them? I definetly think you should bring a heraldor to drop with them, for the retreat/charge combo. 

An alternative to the draco-bomb would be 20 sequitors and 5-10 Evocators dropping down with Gavriel and a Vexillor. They'll do less damage turn 1 but I think they have more staying power than dracolines.