AoS 2 - Idoneth Deepkin Discussion

[JackStreicher]

5 hours ago, DantePQ said:

So my army is coming nicely - more is coming  

 

Could you please PM me the colors you used for the armour?

[JonnyTheKing]

Hey everyone, pretty casual player here who wants to get into the competitive scene with an army I don't really ever see in my area, so here I am with the Deepkin! So since I want to be competitive what works currently? What is finding great success for the Deepkin?

[Srust1]

Hey everyone, 

I've spent the last couple of days skimming this thread, and as a new IDK player (like so many others I know ?) I wanted to ask more specifically about the allopex. I've seen it bashed multiple times on the thread but haven't seen many comments on how it goes in a more casual or semi-competitive environment. I have made a draft list with two and a leviadon. On the internet people tend to classify things as either great or terrible. Is this genuinely the case or is it just in comparison to other units such as the morsarr guard?

In the end I'm just looking to slow grow a fluffy Briomdar army. However, I don't want to get completely flattened every game (at least due to my army list, my skill is a different matter ?).

Thanks for any thoughts!

P.S. I'll post my painting progress in about a week. I have a path to glory starting in a bit under a month and I am starting with King + Soulrender + 10 Thralls + 10 Reavers. 

[mmimzie]

26 minutes ago, Srust1 said:

Hey everyone, 

I've spent the last couple of days skimming this thread, and as a new IDK player (like so many others I know ?) I wanted to ask more specifically about the allopex. I've seen it bashed multiple times on the thread but haven't seen many comments on how it goes in a more casual or semi-competitive environment. I have made a draft list with two and a leviadon. On the internet people tend to classify things as either great or terrible. Is this genuinely the case or is it just in comparison to other units such as the morsarr guard?

In the end I'm just looking to slow grow a fluffy Briomdar army. However, I don't want to get completely flattened every game (at least due to my army list, my skill is a different matter ?).

Thanks for any thoughts!

P.S. I'll post my painting progress in about a week. I have a path to glory starting in a bit under a month and I am starting with King + Soulrender + 10 Thralls + 10 Reavers. 

the allopex falls into the concern that most cav units did in AoS 1. Where basicly they are quick and don't pack any sort of a punch. When stack up to it's brothers ishlaen and Morrsarr there isn't a role the other two don't do better, and it doesn't combine any of the good feature of those two. So it just in comparison seems like a waste of points when you are making a comeptive list. 

Casualy the best use for them is a unit of maybe 3 or so getting buffed up by a king. They stack the buff pretty decently and don't require any benefits from having charged. That said they still fall behind ishlaen who haven't charge against most foes. They are also pretty low on wounds. 

Lastly, the other strength of the allopex is that it has a lower combat surface area. Meaning it needs less exposed front space than say 3 ishlaen/morrsarr to get all of it's attacks in. More so 2 can fit about in the same front area as 2 ishlaen/morrsarr.  Meaning you can bring a nice big unit of sharks and pack more of punch per area than the other two units, and this is the same arguement that compares thralls to say ishlaen/morrsarr in the eel favors. The impact isn't quite as big for the sharks however, but it does mean they have assasination options as 1 man units that can sneak behind screens in gaps. 

Lastly the shark can deliverer assasin, a again isn't too great, but being able to get wormed into small whole and drop a few assasin on top of cahracters wouldn't be too bad. I dont know if allies can take artifacts from your realm but an assasin with a dimensional blade wouldn't be too bad. 

[Amradiel]

In a 1000 point game, would you rather play:

Volturnos 

Tidecaster

6 x Morrsarr guard

3 x Morrsarr guard 

3 x Ishlaen guard

Or

Volturnos 

Tidecaster 

10 x Thralls

10 x Thralls 

3 x Morrsarr guard

3 x Ishlaen guard 

and other suggestions are appreciated 

[DantePQ]

I playtested Aventis with comet and he's much better choice then Aspect of the Sea as Comet is amazing and he has better offensive spells but you need Ionarch for him to shine as he is really can take advantage from +1 to cast/unbid and Tides as he can dish out some damage. Also cover save helps to keep fim safe from being sniped out. 

But I found him most successful with Morssar alpha strike - cast a comet and then alpha strike those extra mortal wounds really help. 

Considering Thralls and Reavers - problem with them is how Deepkin are designed, they don't have many synergies with artifacts, spells, rituals etc you can hardly buff them. And when going infantry heavy you need some kind of shooting, buffs and synergies. I think Lotann is a missed opportunity for sure, Soulrender ability is cool but won't help much. 

Reavers are useful as filler in Tidecaster's armies (to Reverse Tides which is crazy good ability) but they do not synergize with Thralls at all. And it won't change with General's Handbook as it can for example make Reavers 100-120 pts and make Lottan and Soulrender 80 but it won't help much. 

That's a problem with Deepkin right know they have two playstyles : bunkering on objectives and alpha strike and half the army doesn't work as well as Eels with those playstyles so Thralls, Reavers, Allopex, Leviadon, Lotann, Soulrender won't see much competitve play. 

It's only Eels + changing parts. 

 

[Thankee]

I played a Swedish torunament with 38 players this weekend with a Thralls list.

This is the results of the tournament:

http://stridshammaren.se/forum/index.php?p=/discussion/comment/65359/#Comment_65359

 

I came 15th place with Morphann&Namarti Corps.

2x Soulrenders

1x Soulscryer

1x Lotann

1x Aspect of the Storm

1x Allied Spellweaver

 

30x Thralls

30x Thralls

10x Reavers

10x Reavers

 

It is VERY difficult to play since it requires 12" wholly within from lotann & soulrenders, while 9" from the Aspect.

When the starts were aligned however I did plenty of wounds with everything and healed up 12-13 Thralls every battleshock.

Since Thralls healing has no limitations, I could ressurect them into combat with new units and deny them the charge on their turn. I could also heal up and conga line into other objectives.

 

All in all, I dont recommend it. Play eels or look at my cooler Aspect lists .

 

[mmimzie]

5 hours ago, DantePQ said:

I playtested Aventis with comet and he's much better choice then Aspect of the Sea as Comet is amazing and he has better offensive spells but you need Ionarch for him to shine as he is really can take advantage from +1 to cast/unbid and Tides as he can dish out some damage. Also cover save helps to keep fim

He cant get the +1. In the enclave rules it says that the ID in your army are from that enclave, and the +1 tocast/unbind is only given to ionrach wizards. Since there is no way to make none deepkin units count as being from ionrach they can't benefit from the +1 to cast.

[Keggers]

15 hours ago, Thankee said:

I played a Swedish torunament with 38 players this weekend with a Thralls list.

This is the results of the tournament:

http://stridshammaren.se/forum/index.php?p=/discussion/comment/65359/#Comment_65359

 

I came 15th place with Morphann&Namarti Corps.

2x Soulrenders

1x Soulscryer

1x Lotann

1x Aspect of the Storm

1x Allied Spellweaver

 

30x Thralls

30x Thralls

10x Reavers

10x Reavers

 

It is VERY difficult to play since it requires 12" wholly within from lotann & soulrenders, while 9" from the Aspect.

When the starts were aligned however I did plenty of wounds with everything and healed up 12-13 Thralls every battleshock.

Since Thralls healing has no limitations, I could ressurect them into combat with new units and deny them the charge on their turn. I could also heal up and conga line into other objectives.

 

All in all, I dont recommend it. Play eels or look at my cooler Aspect lists .

 

Any idea what Anton Stenlund was playing to place 3rd with his deepkin?

[Thankee]

2 hours ago, Keggers said:

Any idea what Anton Stenlund was playing to place 3rd with his deepkin?

He is a friend of mine and he plays a lot! Very good player and An eel list which I think only lost 2 games ever. Against the winner tzeentch list and a mixed order list.

 

[DantePQ]

Volturnos is ready to rock

 

 

[Tiger]

Gorgeous work. 

[mmimzie]

On 10/7/2018 at 11:11 PM, Amradiel said:

In a 1000 point game, would you rather play:

Volturnos 

Tidecaster

6 x Morrsarr guard

3 x Morrsarr guard 

3 x Ishlaen guard

Or

Volturnos 

Tidecaster 

10 x Thralls

10 x Thralls 

3 x Morrsarr guard

3 x Ishlaen guard 

and other suggestions are appreciated 

hey sorry never responded to this and i wanted to. 

I think 3 morrsarr isn't enough to do anything with.  

So i don't really like the 2nd list, and in both list anywhere i see 3xmorrsarr i'd say go 3ishlaen. You need like a good 6 to do enough damage to really matter. Ishlaen do a great job blocking or locking down units around your initial morrsarr charge. Such that the morrsarr can deal with hopefully only one unit at a time. 

[Austin]

Idoneth placed 8th at the GT over the weekend. Not sure yet of the list, but congrats and that’s a good sign!

[DantePQ]

Ok so here is my first Deepkin build painted and ready to go. After I came up with color scheme the army was done by good friend of mine from Micro Art Studio. Can't wait to give it a go soon :D  

 

[Kirjava13]

I've run out of likes but those are some heckin' beautiful models you've got there buddy.

[DantePQ]

1 hour ago, Kirjava13 said:

I've run out of likes but those are some heckin' beautiful models you've got there buddy.

Thanks a lot  

I hope to have a lot of fun with them  

[Sactownbri]

15 hours ago, Caladancid said:

Idoneth placed 8th at the GT over the weekend. Not sure yet of the list, but congrats and that’s a good sign!

I’m about a dozen games in now and getting better at playing ID. It’s all about high tide. Now that many of my opponents have figured that out it’s getting significantly harder to keep winning. I imagine that’s part of the 8th spot.

[Mark Williams]

My local player zapped me twice with it and I 

36 minutes ago, Sactownbri said:

I’m about a dozen games in now and getting better at playing ID. It’s all about high tide. Now that many of my opponents have figured that out it’s getting significantly harder to keep winning. I imagine that’s part of the 8th spot.

Seen this happen in my area. Local IDK player smashed everyone for a couple months then the games evened out a bit, and they settled into a mid-spot in our local tourneys.

[Rogue Sun]

What allies are you guys using, if any, in your lists? I have 100 pts left over in my army and so far the lone Tidecaster I've been using for it just doesn't make any kind of impact. I'm running an Akhelian Corps and thinking of just adding 2 Aetherwings simply to sit/take objectives while the rest of my army goes off to fight.

[Austin]

7 hours ago, Sactownbri said:

I’m about a dozen games in now and getting better at playing ID. It’s all about high tide. Now that many of my opponents have figured that out it’s getting significantly harder to keep winning. I imagine that’s part of the 8th spot.

When I looked up the Idoneth player on twitter, I think I saw that he wrote he only lost one game and it was to the eventual overall winner.  Of course, he had no full army pics or a list or I would have shamelessly reported back here with the army comp.

[DantePQ]

The biggest problem with competitive Deepkin is how badly they match-up against Daughters of Khaine , as I play DoK myslef the easiest games were against Deepkin as they can't handle combination of immune to battleshock and high number of attacks, as Deepkins have almost no tools to deal with Morathi in small form and Hag Queens. With hardly any shooting and quite weak offensive magic it's an uphill battle from the start. 

[schwabbele]

16 hours ago, Sactownbri said:

I’m about a dozen games in now and getting better at playing ID. It’s all about high tide. Now that many of my opponents have figured that out it’s getting significantly harder to keep winning. I imagine that’s part of the 8th spot.

Makes sense, but how does one avoid high tide? 

[whispersofblood]

14 hours ago, schwabbele said:

Makes sense, but how does one avoid high tide? 

There is definitely something to be said about managing the game state. That means for us not getting sucked in to fights we don't want, and sometimes means letting enemy units do as the wish. 

DoK is a horrible straight up fight for us imo, but the game can be one while losing every model if necessary. You have to stick closely to the sceneries, practice playing them, and have a clear target priority. 

Having your army in the majority with high movement and and flying helps significantly. But you can't get to caught up in what the opponent is fielding. 

[MirageFive]

Are Deepkin really considered that bad outside of the High Tide round? I'm building an Akhelian list and only play casually. It still seems to me like Kings, Eels, and Eidolons will do work on any turn they charge., even without the luxury of everything going first.

Edited October 17, 2018 by MirageFive