AoS 2 - Beasts of Chaos Discussion

[Ganigumo]

39 minutes ago, Maddpainting said:

You only take Glaives when you have 6mans and you need the Reach. 

Paired and Crushers will be the same always but Paired will have more granularity to them which IMO makes them better, they will also be better in niche situations of -1D. 

ah yeah, I just noticed you can mix and match weapon options in the unit, although it can still be tough to strike with them in a 6 man anyways. they're on 90 x 52, you can attack through the 52mm side but it makes the frontage of the unit quite big to have them sideways. I guess you could do one sideways in the middle, with the two glaives behind him, and two on the ends of the sideways ones with paired/crushers. You lose out on the claw attacks but that would work, and you can just pick the glaive ones off first since you drop down to 5 models as soon as one dies.

[Fazhak]

I've updated my own Beasts of Chaos list following release of the new rules. I had delayed doing so after the point reductions, as I wasn't certain how to use the newly freed points. With the new rules, I finally found a niche for the Jabberslythe that seems to work, which helps round out the list's strengths as reported discussed. The Jabberslythe has an innate -2 Rend, so with the new Herdstone bonus to Rend and the Jabberslythe's new Entropic Miasma Monstrous Rampage option, it can reduce a Hero with a 3+ armor save to no armor save. With its own attacks and its Spurting Bile Blood ability, the Jabberslythe now can be a solid threat to a troublesome Hero; I fly it directly into that threat and let it hopefully lock that target down for a bit.

My Jabberslythe, my three Cockatrices, and my Thunderscorn units all move 12" (the Thunderscorn functionally, dependably move at least 12" due to a combination of Creatures of the Storm and Horn of the Tempest). This lets me hopefully shape the center of the battlefield favorably, while my Warherd units follow and my Brayherd battleline units either ambush (the Gor unit) or serve as the Herdstone's sacrifices (the Ungor unit). The list now moves even more quickly than its previous iterations while benefiting from additional blocking Cockatrices. I use two of the three as blockers or rear objective holders, with the third Cockatrice flying toward opposing terrain features to use the Smash To Rubble Monstrous Rampage option.

I've made my Doombull my general, for both flavor purposes (I like the concept of a gluttonous Doombull, with a bodyguard of Bullgors, leading a ravaging herd) and to benefit from the Gorger command trait. The healing that command trait provides allows my Warherd units to typically survive a bit longer, letting me hopefully charge a target, shatter it, and then heal up in preparation for a second target next round. I might swap that command trait out for Rampant Juggernaut, yet for now I'm enjoying it.

As a use of my final 45 points, I am testing out the Doomblast Dirgehorn. My Dragon Ogor Shaggoths have the option of casting it after engaging an opposing unit, typically casting it turn two and positioning it for maximum effect. I might swap it out for the recently updated Chronomantic Cogs which I would likely place near the Great Bray-Shaman tending the Herdstone. Likewise, for flavor, I'm still considering the realm choice for this list.

Here's the list. I look forward to your feedback and happy wargaming!

Allegiance: Beasts of Chaos
- Grand Strategy: Beast Master
- Triumphs:

Leaders
Doombull (115)*
- General
- Command Trait: Gorger
Dragon Ogor Shaggoth (155)*
- Lore of Dark Storms: Sundering Blades
Great Bray-Shaman (100)**
- Lore of the Twisted Wilds: Savage Dominion
Dragon Ogor Shaggoth (155)**
- Artefact: Horn of the Tempest
- Lore of Dark Storms: Sundering Blades

Battleline
6 x Bullgors (260)*
- Pairs of Axes
- Reinforced x 1
20 x Gors (150)**
- Two Gor-Blades
- Reinforced x 1
10 x Ungors (70)**
- Mauls & Half-Shields

Units
1 x Cockatrice (95)*
1 x Cockatrice (95)*
1 x Cockatrice (95)*
6 x Dragon Ogors (250)*
- 6x Draconic War glaives
- Reinforced x 1
6 x Dragon Ogors (250)**
- 6x Draconic War glaives
- Reinforced x 1

Behemoths
Jabberslythe (165)*

Endless Spells & Invocations
Doomblast Dirgehorn (45)

Core Battalions
*Battle Regiment
**Battle Regiment

Total: 2000 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 4 / 4
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 181
Drops: 2

[Lord Krungharr]

I almost got a Cockatrice today, but they had a 2nd hand assembled Ghorgon for $40 so I got that instead.  Cockatrice being Finecast is unappealing and it was $37.25 and not very big.  Might see what bits I have that could make one, I know I have some wings somewhere.  The Jabberslythe was $75!  Also Finecast.  That's such a fantastic weirdo though.  But again, random bits could make that guy (used to have a few of them but never got to use them to try to shut down half of an enemy's army).

Not sure geometrically that 6 Bullgors can have more than 4 ever strike in combat and maintain coherency, and that's a big unit or base size.  MSU of 3 I guess they'll have to stay.  50mm is just silly for them, only 4 wounds!  

That new Battlescroll update made stuff so cheap I can fit all but my 2nd Mindstealer cat in there.  Plan would be to have the cat try to mindwipe a big nasty enemy unit to allow more to attack first, and then tag team the Daemon Prince with another unit to take out something else a little lighter weight since the DP strikes first, and then my first unit choice gets to strike.  His CA and Hailstorm are decent ways to hold things back from charging I guess.  Haven't used them in a long time.  Good reason to get another floor-rug practice game in tomorrow during the Super Bowl

Edited February 13, 2022 by Lord Krungharr
forgot to add new army list

[Myrdin]

@Lord Krungharr Have you considered 3D printing as a option ? Unless you or the store you play at is "GW only", then you can find some amazing sculpts on sites that showcase STL files. And if you have a friend with a printer (or you can just pay for it online, there are many services that will do it for you) you can get both nice looking and much cheaper proxi instead.

And the most important thing is: Its not ilegal like recasting. If thats something that might bother you

Example of pretty cool cockatrice STL;
 

Spoiler

https://cults3d.com/en/3d-model/game/cockatrice-tabletop-miniature

https://www.myminifactory.com/object/3d-print-cockatrice-mount-huge-chicken-lizard-hybrid-classic-encounter-171073

https://www.myminifactory.com/object/3d-print-rhacos-cockatrice-pre-supported-196577

https://www.myminifactory.com/object/3d-print-cockatrice-tabletop-miniature-206834

 

Edited February 13, 2022 by Myrdin

[Lord Krungharr]

Ooh those are cool!  I have not explored alternate minis for the Cockatrices yet.  I do like to keep it GW just for aesthetic cohesion more-or-less if I can, but not always necessary.  Sometimes a smattering of tiny bits or basing debris does that, like with my Rogue Idol for the Bonesplitterz (which was a Pathfinder mini, couldn't argue with the price!).

Cockatrices are a great tool for hero sniping, which the Beasts kinda lack.  Cygors have the Look Out Sir to contend with cuz of the actual hit roll.  Ignoring that is always a bonus.

[The Red King]

I use a 3d printed basilisk myself. I figure they both have petrifying gazes and basilisk aren't represented elsewhere in the game so...

[Lord Krungharr]

Yeah, Beasts of Chaos should get ALL THE BEASTS!  Sooo many good files out there for 3D printing.  Someday this year I'll plunk down for a small basic resin printer to get the hang of them.  Some are only a few hundred bucks.  The one I need for jewelry purposes however.....that's a much spicier meatball.

[Myrdin]

9 hours ago, Lord Krungharr said:

Yeah, Beasts of Chaos should get ALL THE BEASTS!  Sooo many good files out there for 3D printing.  Someday this year I'll plunk down for a small basic resin printer to get the hang of them.  Some are only a few hundred bucks.  The one I need for jewelry purposes however.....that's a much spicier meatball.

I still remember when I started this hobby. Beastmen were my OG army and I was like "Woah army made of all sorts of Monsters and beastly gribblies?! Cool"

....little did I know that the Beastmen army had less beastly monsters than the Tomb Kings which got updated some time after and more than half of their army roster composed of monsters and monstrous units of all types. *disgruntled snort*

Edited February 14, 2022 by Myrdin

[Lord Krungharr]

Yeah, but the Tomb King monsters didn't have skin.  Skin makes the win!

[Warbossironteef]

Hello All! Considering some BoC after the rule changes. Looking to play some games on TTS to see if I like the army. Anyone have thoughts on something like the below? 

My thoughts were it has some good screening and chaff that get pregame moves, Raiders and Beasts. It uses the Gors for Herdstone blocking and Primordial Points. Then some heavier hitters in the Enlightened on Disc and Dragon Ogors.

I think I would try to use Dragon Ogors/Doombull as counter punch and they would be late game hammers that can hit back after you push out with Enlightened and Raiders/Untammed Beasts.

Allegiance: Beasts of Chaos
- Greatfray: Gavespawn
- Grand Strategy: None Chosen
- Triumphs:
LEADERS
Dragon Ogor Shaggoth (155)
- General
- Command Trait: Unravelling Aura

- Artefact: Arcanetome
- Lore of Dark Storms: Hailstorm
Great Bray-Shaman (100)
- Lore of the Twisted Wilds: Tendrils of Atrophy
Tzaangor Shaman of Beasts of Chaos (135)
- Lore of the Twisted Wilds: Tendrils of Atrophy
Doombull (115)
- Artefact: Mutating Gnarlblade
UNITS
9 x Dragon Ogors (375)
- 9 x Draconic War glaives
10 x Gors (75)
10 x Gors (75)
6 x Tzaangor Enlightened on Disc of Beasts of Chaos (360)
6 x Tzaangor Enlightened on Disc of Beasts of Chaos (360)
10 x Ungor Raiders (90)
10 x Ungor Raiders (90)
9 x Untamed Beasts (70)
TOTAL: 2000/2000 WOUNDS: 171

[Overread]

Another good Cockatrice is from Blue Giant Studios (Atlantis Miniatures/Print Your Monsters) and their recent dragon kickstarter, which is now in its post-campaign phase so you can still pledge through MMF. It's one of my more favourite designs. Also if you don't have a 3D printer there's a good chance that they might put it into physical production as they state that  is the plan for several of the models from the KS

 

Spoiler

 

https://www.myminifactory.com/campaigns/world-of-dragons-388

 

 

[Lord Krungharr]

Seeing a lot of peole bringing back the Tzeentchy beasts off the shelves.  With all the bird beaks, those armies need some Cockatrices don't they?  Still, isn't it better to run them as a Tzeentch army with coalition Cockatrices?  Not sure.  I'm a cow guy.

[Overread]

Purely attention seeking since not everyone checks racial threads outside of the big one :

https://www.tga.community/forums/topic/31047-beastmen-scale-questions/

 

[Blair]

Hey guys

Please tell me is the jabberslythe worth it in a game

I'm thinking about building one but not sure if it will be with the time investment 

 

[Skreech Verminking]

1 hour ago, Blair said:

Hey guys

Please tell me is the jabberslythe worth it in a game

I'm thinking about building one but not sure if it will be with the time investment 

 

Personally I don’t think he is, at least not in a competitive scene.

Yet I would still use him just for the sake of fu , and because the beast of chaos update in total war warhammer 2 made the jabberslyth a reslly cool mode to look at

[Kamose]

On 2/17/2022 at 12:01 AM, Blair said:

Hey guys

Please tell me is the jabberslythe worth it in a game

I'm thinking about building one but not sure if it will be with the time investment 

 

I've used the Jabberslythe in casual games and he works fine as long as you use him for what he's for; dying on someone. He will die. That's a given, it's what he was made for, it's what he wants, so give it to him.

Specifically I find he works well going after small to medium support and combat heroes. With flying,  bile blood, aura of madness, and (now) -3 Rend on all melee attacks he's a threat even to choppy heroes. No matter if you go first or your opponent in combat, Jabby will hurt someone.

Also always summon him, never pay points. Summoning let's you ambush and take full advantage of fly and better positioning.

Tldr; summon Jabby, Jabby dies, madness, profit.

[Myrdin]

Jabber would be pretty solid piece if only its basic attacks were Damage 2.

Even while its abilities are still pretty .... poop right now compared to how they used to be, just scaling up its damage would make it that much more useful. Especially with the new Herdstone adding an additional rend.

Because when I look at the Jabber I dont see a unit worth 160pts. The current Jabber would be hard sell to me even for 120-100, thats how bad that thing is in my eyes.

And I used to love it when BoC for AoS 2 first came out. It was a mostly useless unit but I liked it and it was fun in friendly games despite being really bad for a short time before the post BoC armybook power creep really picked up.

Edited February 18, 2022 by Myrdin

[Warbossironteef]

Has anyone done a deep dive on the melee units with the new buffs? I feel like Dragon Ogors with access to 2 inch reach are pretty solid. Dmg 1, but they are so undercosted, 9 of them are only 375. 

If you use all out attack and are near shaggoth their Warglaives due an average of about 20 wounds to a 4+ save. This obviously goes way up if you get the additional rend and reroll wounds. 

Do you think other units can outperform them? I really think a full unit of 9 has legit play because they are so undercosted, they count as 2 models on objectives and work so well with the new herdstone's rally.

[Fazhak]

I address the recent usefulness of the Jabberslythe in the second post on this page.

With both the increased Rend from the Herdstone and the new Entropic Miasma Monstrous Rampage option, for its point cost the Jabberslythe can be a helpful anti-Hero unit to include in the monster option in a Battle Regiment. With its innate -2 Rend, the abovementioned recent additions, and its Spurting Bile Blood, you can fly it into a problematic Hero (likely one on a mount) and dependably grind that opposing asset down. Though somewhat a bit of overkill in many situations, a successful cast of a Shaggoth's Sundering Blades spell can functionally allow a Jabberslythe to ignore an opposing Hero's 2+ armor save; there are few such can openers in the game. This is a role Beasts of Chaos needed to fill, as big monster-riding Heroes could be a bit of a challenge for Beasts of Chaos' somewhat glass cannon heavy hitters. Backed up by Cockatrice blockers, a single Jabberslythe can be a solid compliment to a well-rounded list.

The list previously posted on this page also addresses the Dragon Ogor question. Supported by Shaggoths to ensure the Dragon Ogors re-reoll 1s,  my Dragon Ogors with glaives dependably churn out strong damage while enduring a bit longer than expected. The glaives' increased reach allow the units to be a bit more adaptable to situations wherein placement is otherwise tricky.

In all, the additional Battle Traits from both this White Dwarf and Broken Realms: Kragnos are helpful; not game-changing, but rather game enhancing. The Dragon Ogors, like the Jabberslythe, now fulfill their roles more consistently and competently, allowing me to provide my opponent a more competitive challenge with a wider range of models while also having more fun.

[DrThunder]

Sorry if this has been covered and I have yet to play test anything, Did I read it correctly that the Jabberscythes Aura of Madness returns mortals for EVERY hit roll of 1 against it or just 1 mortal to the unit? I could see suicide bombing my Jabber into a horde unit every time if it is for every 1 the enemy rolls.

I am wondering how many points are you wiling to sacrifice per mortal wound delt.

Edited February 20, 2022 by DrThunder

[Adammck66]

I have 20 Tzaangor, 6 of both disc-gors, and a shaman. Wonder if theyre worth using as Beasts of chaos?

[The World Tree]

9 minutes ago, Adammck66 said:

I have 20 Tzaangor, 6 of both disc-gors, and a shaman. Wonder if theyre worth using as Beasts of chaos?

I reckon so. Extra rend on the tzaangor is deadly, plus a block of tzaangor rallying on 4+ is tough to chew through.

[Skreech Verminking]

18 minutes ago, The World Tree said:

I reckon so. Extra rend on the tzaangor is deadly, plus a block of tzaangor rallying on 4+ is tough to chew through.

I’m not certain if tzaangors  are that great of a unit when dealing damage.

But tzaangor enlightenments seem to be pretty great, considering that they will be roaming the board with a good amount of rend.

 

[Myrdin]

1 hour ago, Skreech Verminking said:

I’m not certain if tzaangors  are that great of a unit when dealing damage.

But tzaangor enlightenments seem to be pretty great, considering that they will be roaming the board with a good amount of rend.

 

Before the DO and Bullgor price adjustments I would say they are, since they are able to dish lot of attacks with good offensive values thanks to a close by shaman.

However with the current prices I think the DO overtook them in that regard, especially when Wound per Points per Attack is considered.

 

 

 

I was hoping there is a bit more in the WD update but... thats it... Sigh. My main opponent has Nighthaunt army so all this fancy table wide rend does absolutely nothing for me in those games *crying goat noises* (will just take my CoS against his ghosts instead and reserve BoC against armies that actually can suffer from our improved rending).

Edited February 20, 2022 by Myrdin

[Skreech Verminking]

Just now, Myrdin said:

Before the DO and Bullgor price adjustments I would say they are, since they are able to dish lot of attacks with good offensive values thanks to a close by shaman.

However with the current prices I think the DO overtook them in that regard, especially when Wound per Points is considered.

 

***

 

I was hoping there is a bit more in the WD update but... thats it... Sigh. My main opponent has Nighthaunt army so all this fancy table wide rend does absolutely nothing for me in those games *crying goat noises* (will just take my CoS against his ghosts instead and reserve BoC against armies that actually can suffer from our improved rending).

Well I mean you have to see it from a wider picture.

We are able to keep up with the extremely armored factions, and considering that we can keep up with some of the more stronger factions, it kinda seems rather fare that we are fairly weak against the current ghosts.

let the ghosts enjoy one or two victories in their weak condition, before they become the new meta😂😁😉