Fazhak

Enjoying the new Beasts of Chaos. It feels even more like a skirmish game now, rather than a larger scale one, yet it remains fun. Part of that is likely simply a matter of point costs reducing the amount of figures on the table. Another aspect is probably related a bit to nostalgia, as the release of a new book is an opportunity to reflect on past iterations of the hobby and game. Fortunately, it is still a good time. My current list leans heavy into Centigors, as I am finding them to be really quite good. I was a big fan of "smashmouth" Beastmen back in Fantasy and a maxed out unit of Centigors has a bit of that feel. I aim to deploy them on a flank, run them into a particularly troublesome unit or (even more likely) a block of battleline, and then pair their threat with an ambushing Doombull that charges in tandem with the Centigors thanks to my general's command trait. It is surprisingly effective. As noted previously in this forum, the Bestigors might have been underrated when the book first released. Readers seemed to look for Bestigors to be either a hammer or an anvil. Their strength, as I think rightly observed since, is that a solid unit of Bestigor can adequately accomplish a bit of both roles. That block of Bestigor, which I try to deploy on the opposite flank from the Centigors, grinds up quite a bit while also being a dependable defensive unit. Interestingly, the Gor unit is resilient, too. The Allherd trait is a solid engine for a well-positioned deployed unit, especially one that is meant to support Rituals of Ruin. In this case, Allherd functionally makes that Gor unit immune to battleshock, as more often than not that is the selection used by the Great Bray-Shaman which routinely accompanies that unit. Dragon Ogors remain a dependable way to hold backfield or remote objectives and positions; their self-healing is helpful and their toughness can surprise an opponent. Likewise, opponents can be startled by the ambushing Beastlord who is suddenly deployed with 10 Gor thanks to its artefact. It is a small trick, yet interestingly effective. Here is the list. I look forward to your feedback and thoughts. Until then, happy wargaming! Allegiance: Beasts of Chaos- Greatfray: Allherd- Mortal Realm: Hysh- Grand Strategy: Desecrating Brayherd- Triumphs:LeadersGreat Bray-Shaman (95)*- General- Command Trait: Bestial Cunning- Lore of the Twisted Wilds: Primal Dominance- Aspect of the Champion: Leadership of the AlphaBeastlord (145)*- Artefact: Brayblast TrumpetDoombull (180)*- Artefact: Slitherwrack HelmBattleline20 x Gors (220)**- Two Gor-Blades- Reinforced x 120 x Bestigors (400)**- Reinforced x 115 x Centigors (510)**- Reinforced x 2Units3 x Dragon Ogors (225)*3 x Dragon Ogors (225)*Core Battalions*Warlord**Galletian VeteransAdditional EnhancementsArtefactTotal: 2000 / 2000Reinforced Units: 4 / 4Allies: 0 / 400Wounds: 139Drops: 8

I appreciate this. It sounds like we agree about the list itself and are instead honing in on the organization of it all. I want to test whether going first makes a difference with this new battletome, yet given your points I am open to exploring an alternative organization. Turns out I can swap out the Doombull for a Jabberslythe and thereby keep the list largely intact. This swap doesn't cost me strategically, as the Doombull was positioned to be (akin to a Jabberslythe) a support Hero hunter anyway. In this alternative organization, I simply move the Artefact and Aspect of the Beast to my general. Here's how I would arrange the units into three different core battalions: Vanguard Great Bray-Shaman (general) (95) #1 3 Dragon Ogors (225) #2 3 Dragon Ogors (225) Linebreaker Great Bray-Shaman (95) Cygor (210) Jabberslythe (160) Galletian Veterans 15 Centigor (510) #1 20 Gor w/ Paired Hacking Blades (220) #2 20 Gor w/ Paired Hacking Blades (220) Endless Spells Ravening Direflock (40) Do you truly think the above is a better organization than the Battle Regiment?

Thanks for this feedback! Regarding Centigors, one of Popisdead's tricks addresses attacking in multiple ranks with Centigors: turn the front rank sideways and the back rank can attack with their Gutpiercer Spear because such have a 2" reach. Granted, the back rank will not get their Clawed Forelimbs attacks, yet those had no base Rend anyway. I'm likewise not too concerned about maximizing the Gor units, as those are more for screening opposing units, holding objectives, and resourcing Rituals of Ruin, than being hammers themselves. I'm thinking the one-drop might be useful in this initial exploration of the battletome's dynamics. Maybe such won't be important, yet I'm wanting to go for it now given how early attacks and positioning seem particularly useful with this new battletome. I like Primal Dominance. It casts on a 5, which is significant; the perhaps more noteworthy buffs cast on a 7, which likely hits only about half the time without bonuses. It has an 18" range, which is a distance that informs how I use my Great Bray-Shaman given their enhanced Rituals of Ruin. I think the spell's effect is significant: countering many of the benefits (and monstrous rampages) of Monsters can make a big difference for how the Gor units (which I team with the Great Bray-Shaman) perform. Lastly, I'm actually wanting to case Mystic Shield and my endless spell with this list, so having a Lore spell with occasional utility isn't the opportunity cost it might be in other lists. Does the above make sense? What do you (and others) think?

Enjoying the new battletome, which is strangely somehow a bit of a throwback to pre-AoS Beastmen. By that I mean that there seem to be more opportunities for a variety of units engaging across the field, each hitting quickly and hard, rather than the chaff screens that seemed to characterize this faction's play more recently. I like the Rituals of Ruin, which offer up effects that compensate for the unlikeliness of our spells or prayers succeeding. I agree with the point made in previous points that the wounds from Rituals of Ruin need to be passed off to units, with the possible exception of the Shaggoth. Other heroes need to pass the wounds to support their own survivability. I am enjoying my centigors again. Fielding 15 is often unexpected by opponents and, with All-Out Defense, the unit has significant resilience with good damage output. A solid roll for a first turn Blood Taunt, which pulls a battleline unit out of position, followed by reasonable performances from the centigor unit during both the shooting and combat phases, can make a big impact from the onset of the game. Ambush remains more a complement to the army, rather than something on which to go all-in. I use it to target opposing heroes (with warherd) and secure distant objectives (with thunderscorn). To that end, the Doombull has its artefact "The Knowing Eye" to increase the odds that I have a command point for either the Forward to Victory or All-Out Attack command actions, or that the extra move the artefact provides addresses such concerns. Here's my current list. I suspect there will be revisions, as the faction's new dynamics become clearer, yet it seems fun and productive. For instance, I am presently going with Desecrating Brayherd as my Grand Strategy, given the synergy between Allherd and the Gor units' enhanced Rally mechanic, yet I might explore other options. I welcome your feedback and, as always, happy wargaming! Faction: Beasts of Chaos Greatfray: Allherd Realm: Hysh Grand Strategy: Desecrating Brayherd LEADERS * #1 Great Bray-Shaman (95) General Command Trait: Propagator of Ruin Spell: Primal Dominance * #2 Great Bray-Shaman (95) Spell: Primal Dominance * Doombull (160) Artefact: The Knowing Eye Aspects of the Champion: Leadership of the Alpha BATTLELINE * 15 Centigor (510) - Full Command * #1 20 Gor (220) - Full Command - Paired Hacking Blades * #2 20 Gor (220) - Full Command - Paired Hacking Blades ADDITIONAL UNITS * #1 3 Dragon Ogor (225) * #2 3 Dragon Ogor (225) BEHEMOTHS * Cygor (210) ENDLESS SPELLS Ravening Direflock (40) BATTALIONS * Battle Regiment TOTAL POINTS 2000/2000

I address the recent usefulness of the Jabberslythe in the second post on this page. With both the increased Rend from the Herdstone and the new Entropic Miasma Monstrous Rampage option, for its point cost the Jabberslythe can be a helpful anti-Hero unit to include in the monster option in a Battle Regiment. With its innate -2 Rend, the abovementioned recent additions, and its Spurting Bile Blood, you can fly it into a problematic Hero (likely one on a mount) and dependably grind that opposing asset down. Though somewhat a bit of overkill in many situations, a successful cast of a Shaggoth's Sundering Blades spell can functionally allow a Jabberslythe to ignore an opposing Hero's 2+ armor save; there are few such can openers in the game. This is a role Beasts of Chaos needed to fill, as big monster-riding Heroes could be a bit of a challenge for Beasts of Chaos' somewhat glass cannon heavy hitters. Backed up by Cockatrice blockers, a single Jabberslythe can be a solid compliment to a well-rounded list. The list previously posted on this page also addresses the Dragon Ogor question. Supported by Shaggoths to ensure the Dragon Ogors re-reoll 1s, my Dragon Ogors with glaives dependably churn out strong damage while enduring a bit longer than expected. The glaives' increased reach allow the units to be a bit more adaptable to situations wherein placement is otherwise tricky. In all, the additional Battle Traits from both this White Dwarf and Broken Realms: Kragnos are helpful; not game-changing, but rather game enhancing. The Dragon Ogors, like the Jabberslythe, now fulfill their roles more consistently and competently, allowing me to provide my opponent a more competitive challenge with a wider range of models while also having more fun.

I've updated my own Beasts of Chaos list following release of the new rules. I had delayed doing so after the point reductions, as I wasn't certain how to use the newly freed points. With the new rules, I finally found a niche for the Jabberslythe that seems to work, which helps round out the list's strengths as reported discussed. The Jabberslythe has an innate -2 Rend, so with the new Herdstone bonus to Rend and the Jabberslythe's new Entropic Miasma Monstrous Rampage option, it can reduce a Hero with a 3+ armor save to no armor save. With its own attacks and its Spurting Bile Blood ability, the Jabberslythe now can be a solid threat to a troublesome Hero; I fly it directly into that threat and let it hopefully lock that target down for a bit. My Jabberslythe, my three Cockatrices, and my Thunderscorn units all move 12" (the Thunderscorn functionally, dependably move at least 12" due to a combination of Creatures of the Storm and Horn of the Tempest). This lets me hopefully shape the center of the battlefield favorably, while my Warherd units follow and my Brayherd battleline units either ambush (the Gor unit) or serve as the Herdstone's sacrifices (the Ungor unit). The list now moves even more quickly than its previous iterations while benefiting from additional blocking Cockatrices. I use two of the three as blockers or rear objective holders, with the third Cockatrice flying toward opposing terrain features to use the Smash To Rubble Monstrous Rampage option. I've made my Doombull my general, for both flavor purposes (I like the concept of a gluttonous Doombull, with a bodyguard of Bullgors, leading a ravaging herd) and to benefit from the Gorger command trait. The healing that command trait provides allows my Warherd units to typically survive a bit longer, letting me hopefully charge a target, shatter it, and then heal up in preparation for a second target next round. I might swap that command trait out for Rampant Juggernaut, yet for now I'm enjoying it. As a use of my final 45 points, I am testing out the Doomblast Dirgehorn. My Dragon Ogor Shaggoths have the option of casting it after engaging an opposing unit, typically casting it turn two and positioning it for maximum effect. I might swap it out for the recently updated Chronomantic Cogs which I would likely place near the Great Bray-Shaman tending the Herdstone. Likewise, for flavor, I'm still considering the realm choice for this list. Here's the list. I look forward to your feedback and happy wargaming! Allegiance: Beasts of Chaos- Grand Strategy: Beast Master- Triumphs:LeadersDoombull (115)*- General- Command Trait: GorgerDragon Ogor Shaggoth (155)*- Lore of Dark Storms: Sundering BladesGreat Bray-Shaman (100)**- Lore of the Twisted Wilds: Savage DominionDragon Ogor Shaggoth (155)**- Artefact: Horn of the Tempest- Lore of Dark Storms: Sundering BladesBattleline6 x Bullgors (260)*- Pairs of Axes- Reinforced x 120 x Gors (150)**- Two Gor-Blades- Reinforced x 110 x Ungors (70)**- Mauls & Half-ShieldsUnits1 x Cockatrice (95)*1 x Cockatrice (95)*1 x Cockatrice (95)*6 x Dragon Ogors (250)*- 6x Draconic War glaives- Reinforced x 16 x Dragon Ogors (250)**- 6x Draconic War glaives- Reinforced x 1BehemothsJabberslythe (165)*Endless Spells & InvocationsDoomblast Dirgehorn (45)Core Battalions*Battle Regiment**Battle RegimentTotal: 2000 / 2000Reinforced Units: 4 / 4Allies: 0 / 400Wounds: 181Drops: 2

Regarding ideas which might have a new life in 3rd edition... At first, I thought the new edition's Reinforcement rules would once again put our Centigors back in their respective display cases. Upon reflection, though, I think the new edition might have a place for them. The new edition's board size is the reason for this reevaluation. The no man's land between deployment zones in the new edition can be 22 inches across. A unit of 10 Centigor, when deployed near a Great Bray-Shaman, have a first turn movement of 18"+d6" (14" base + 1" Beast Banner run buff + 3" Great Bray-Shaman move buff + d6" run). This makes the Centigor a particularly good shock troop, one which has more starting threat range than many cavalry units in the game. They remain rather undependable and flimsy, but with the new command abilities and core battalions they can be pretty flexible and open up some addition options. I'm intrigued by how my Centigors might play and look forward to hearing your own feedback from using them, too. Happy wargaming!

Here's my current list. In terms of deployment, I'm finding people are giving the new battalions a shot. This means I have a chance to out-position them, even if at five drops I'm possibly still going second. I tend to deploy the units in the Warlord battalion first, leading with the Gors unit being placed into Ambush, followed by Grashrak and its crew being placed at the Herdstone, then placing the Doombull and Dragon Ogor Shaggoth at various locations. This order means that, even four drops into deployment, I have given up very little information to my opponent. I thus hopefully end up deploying my entire Battle Regiment in advantageous positions on my fifth placement. As noted in my previous comments, the Gors scramble in my opponent's backfield while Grashrak and its crew staff the Herdstone's sacrificial fires. The Warherd units inflict casualties, hopefully knocking out my opponent's battleline units. The Thunderscorn units park on midfield objectives and grind down challengers, with a Dragon Ogor Shaggoth likely roaring to deny my opponent access to command abilities during the combat phase while the list's endless spells deny my opponent access to Inspiring Presence. The Cockatrices fly to block charge lanes, destroy my opponent's faction terrain, maybe attack small monsters, and otherwise create nuisances for my opponent. Most of the units (the Gors, the Bullgors, and the Dragon Ogors) re-roll ones, a decision I made both to maximize impact and as a bit of a tribute to the old Primal Fury rule. I picked Hysh for the list's realm solely for flavor (I imagine the army as a collection of dreaming beasts which never sleeps), as I do not think there is a mechanic benefit to be had in that selection. I look forward to your feedback! Thanks and happy wargaming! Allegiance: Beasts of Chaos- Greatfray: Allherd- Mortal Realm: Hysh- Grand Strategy: Beast Master- Triumphs:LeadersDragon Ogor Shaggoth (185) in Battle Regiment- General- Command Trait: Dominator- Artefact: Horn of the Tempest- Lore of Dark Storms: Sundering BladesDragon Ogor Shaggoth (185) in Warlord- Lore of Dark Storms: Sundering BladesDoombull (115) in Warlord- Artefact: Blade of the DesecratorGrashrak Fellhoof (150) in Warlord- Lore of the Twisted Wilds: Savage DominionBattleline6 x Dragon Ogors (300) in Battle Regiment- 6x Draconic War glaives- Reinforced x 16 x Dragon Ogors (300) in Battle Regiment- 6x Draconic War glaives- Reinforced x 120 x Gors (150) in Warlord- Two Gor-Blades- Reinforced x 1Units6 x Bullgors (310) in Battle Regiment- Pairs of Axes- Reinforced x 11 x Cockatrice (95) in Battle Regiment1 x Cockatrice (95) in Battle RegimentEndless Spells & InvocationsHorrorghast (65)Ravening Direflock (50)Core BattalionsBattle RegimentWarlordAdditional EnhancementsArtefactTotal: 2000 / 2000Reinforced Units: 4 / 4Allies: 0 / 400Wounds: 153

Quick observation: Beasts of Chaos are one of the few factions with access to two different ways to stop Inspiring Presence. Both the Horroghast and Ravening Direflock spells prevent use of that Command Ability. I've found that a unit of six Dragon Ogors, backed by a Dragon Ogor Shaggoth casting/controlling these spells, has a solid way to pin and grind down opposing units. It's a helpful utility; not game winning in itself, but a useful addition to the Thunderscorn toolbox. I run two such Thunderscorn pairings. Being able to park on midfield objectives and deny challengers access to Inspiring Presence is both surprising to my opponent and useful to me. Meanwhile, my two Cockatrices hunt faction terrain and the occasional smaller opposing monsters, my Warherd units inflict casualties, and my Brayherd units either scramble in my opponent's backfield or staff the Herdstone's sacrificial fires. Like Bullgors, I recommend using Dragon Ogors in units of six or more. At their minimum unit size, they might be a bit too vulnerable to an opponent's mortal wound tricks, but at a unit size of six or more I think Dragon Ogors can be supported for success. Team each such unit with an accompanying Shaggoth, so to (1) benefit from re-rolling 1s on attacks and (2) deny opposing units access to Inspiring Presence.

If the new environment turns out to be particularly rough during the Battleshock Phase, I might very well change the above list to be Allherd to benefit from that Greatfray's Bestial Might ability. If I do make it Allherd, I'll likely reorganize the list so to use a Warlord battalion and a Battle Regiment battalion. This then becomes a five drop list. While I could keep it with the above organization, remain two drop, and still be Allherd, my Thunderscorn would lose the benefit of the Horn of the Tempest artefact. I like the option of run and charge Thunderscorn. To therefore have two artefacts, I would have to take a Warlord or Command Entourage battalion. In doing so, I would lose the coordinated "first strike" potential on my Thunderscorn charges, since my general would lose access to Lightning-fast Monstrosity, but Dominator is nonetheless a good command trait. I would likely give my Doombull the Allherd's Blade of the Desecrator, letting it better hunt down what I expect will be more prevalent units of 10 models. Below is how I suspect an Allherd version of my list would be organized: BEASTS OF CHAOS (1995pt) Greatfray - Allherd Realm - Undecided at this time WARLORD (600pt) Dragon Ogor Shaggoth - 185pt - General - Command Trait: Dominator - Artefact: Horn of the Tempest - Spell: Sundering Blades Grashrak Fellhoof - 150pt - Spell: Savage Dominion Doombull - 115pt - Artefact: Blade of the Desecrator x20 Gors - 150pt (1st of 4 Reinforced Units, 1st of 3 Battleline Units) - Pair of Gor Blades BATTLE REGIMENT (1285pt) Dragon Ogor Shaggoth - 185pt - Spell: Sundering Blades x6 Dragon Ogors - 300pt (2nd of 4 Reinforced Units, 2nd of 3 Battleline Units) - x6 Draconic War-glaives x6 Dragon Ogors - 300pt (3rd of 4 Reinforced Units, 3rd of 3 Battleline Units) - x6 Draconic War-glaives x6 Bullgors - 310pt (4th of 4 Reinforced Units) - Pair of Bullgor Axes Cockatrice - 95pt Cockatrice - 95pt ENDLESS SPELLS (110pt) Wildfire Taurus - 110pt

I feel good about the opportunities this new edition creates, even though I do wonder about "rule creep" complicating a system that was originally marketed as "four pages is all you need." Ultimately, I think these new changes can be a good thing and I'm intrigued by where it all goes. I'm exploring the following list's possibilities and having fun with it. This two drop build moves very quickly to take the center of the table. It is currently organized as two Battle Regiment battalions; while I might later explore a reorganization as one Warlord battalion and one Battle regiment battalion, for now the two drop option is interesting to me. By the way, much of the list re-rolls hit rolls of 1, which is both functionally helpful and a fun, thematic callback to Warhammer Fantasy's Primal Fury rule. For example, I position each Dragon Ogor unit with a Shaggoth, so to hopefully ensure the Dragon Ogors' Storm Rage buff. Grashrak Fellhoof and its Despoilers staff the Herdstone, positioned to focus on Primal Call sacrifices and perhaps give the Gor unit an initial speed buff should I choose not to use the Gor unit for ambushing. The two Cockatrice fly for blocking and monstrous rampages. The Shaggoths and Dragon Ogors are surprisingly resilient, given their multiple options for healing, and are especially good at holding objectives. This list's speed also helps it overcome delaying tactics an opponent might deploy by using chaff as speedbumps. In the best case scenario, should I be positioned for early charges, I hopefully can cast Wildfire Taurus successfully with the non-general Shaggoth-Dragon Ogor unit pair, charge with both that pair and the general Shaggoth-Dragon Ogor unit pair, so that I get to attack with all Shaggoths and Dragon Ogor units prior to my opponent being able to activate a meaningful counterattack. This involves: (1) the Lightning-fast Monstrosity Shaggoth general attacking at the start of the combat phase before activations, (2) its paired Dragon Ogor unit attacking as my first activation, and (3) the other Shaggoth-Dragon Ogor pair attacking the charged target of the Wildfire Taurus-debuff before that target gets to hurt them. Here's the build: BEASTS OF CHAOS (1995pt) Greatfray - None Realm - Undecided at this time #1 BATTLE REGIMENT (880pt) Dragon Ogor Shaggoth - 185pt - General - Command Trait: Lightning-Fast Monstrosity - Spell: Thunderwave Grashnak Fellhoof - 150pt - Spell: Savage Dominion x6 Dragon Ogors - 300pt (1st of 4 Reinforced Units, 1st of 3 Battleline Units) - x6 Draconic War-glaives x20 Gors - 150pt (2nd of 4 Reinforced Units, 2nd of 3 Battleline Units) - Pair of Gor Blades Cockatrice - 95pt #2 BATTLE REGIMENT (1005pt) Dragon Ogor Shaggoth - 185pt - Artefact: Horn of the Tempest - Spell: Sundering Blades Doombull - 115pt x6 Dragon Ogors - 300pt (3rd of 4 Reinforced Units, 3rd of 3 Battleline Units) - x6 Draconic War-glaives x6 Bullgors - 310pt (4th of 4 Reinforced Units) - Pair of Bullgor Axes Cockatrice - 95pt ENDLESS SPELLS (110pt) Wildfire Taurus - 110pt

I'm increasingly convinced that the real benefit of Hallowheart is not in its unique command ability. Casting is a random effect in itself and the command ability is also random in the scope of its buff. While there is a bit of a "feast or famine" dynamic to building around the command ability, the significant issue for me is that using the feature costs two resources: wounds and command points. Both are finite and I think better spent on options that are far less random in their results. That which makes Hallowheart really interesting and somewhat unique is instead its resiliency. My army has mostly 4+ or better saves, ignores harmful spells on 5+, and is often immune to battleshock. Few factions get access to all those benefits, which are readily available to multiple Hallowheart builds. Veteran of the Blazing Crusade is a great command trait and surprisingly underappreciated, as an 18" battleshock immunity aura is significant. Plus, Hallowheart has access to a heal spell to hopefully help keep that aura going into the late game. With a general on one side of the board and a unit of Hammerers with Dispossessed hero on the other, Hallowheart armies can often fight to the last. Further, in a current meta environment with strong magic from Lumineth Realm-Lords, Seraphon, and multiple Chaos factions, the 5+ to ignore harmful spells can be clutch. Lastly, even while not focusing on the command ability, I still get to benefit from Hallowheart spells and additional casting opportunities by fielding Sisters of the Thorn. Their increased movement, let alone additional wounds, help me take objectives while keeping up with the advance of my fighting force. Hope this helps and looking forward to the conversation!

Hello! As I wait for an update to my main army, I'm exploring Cities of Sigmar and its play. I've discovered the following list to fun and surprisingly effective. I look forward to your feedback and thoughts! I use Vengeful Revenants to discourage attacks on my Steam Tanks, so that ability serves a more passive purpose in this list. Instead, I focus on how my Phoenicium Steam Tank Commander can learn the Golden Mist spell to heal nearby Steam Tanks. The Anointed on Flamespyre Phoenix either supports the Phoenix Guard units or charges forward to complicate my opponent's plans in the center of the board. The attractiveness of the latter option is enhanced by its Phoenix Pyre Ashses artefact and Phoenix Reborn ability. Each Phoenix Guard unit in teamed with one of the two Anointed. Those forces are then used to secure my flanks and pressure those of my opponent. The Ironbreakers move forward centerfield, screening the Steam Tanks, and benefit in combat from Inspiring Presence via the Steam Tank Commander. The list grinds out its opposition while packing a surprising punch of its own. Allegiance: Cities of Sigmar- City: PhoeniciumMortal Realm: GhyranLeadersSteam Tank with Commander (230)- General- Command Trait: One with Fire and Ice - Golden MistAnointed of Asuryan on Flamespyre Phoenix (300)- Artefact: Phoenix Pyre AshesAnointed (100)Anointed (100)Battleline30 x Ironbreakers (270)Steam Tank (180)Steam Tank (180)Units20 x Phoenix Guard (320)20 x Phoenix Guard (320)Total: 2000 / 2000Extra Command Points: 0Allies: 0 / 400Wounds: 128

Hello! While awaiting an update to my main army, I've been exploring Cities of Sigmar. I'm finding the following list to be both fun and rather competitive. I welcome your feedback, as I am interested in examining what seems most helpful, what could be refined, etc. The concept is for the non-Order Serpentis units to move forward, taking center objectives and positioning for countercharges on the following turn. With their innate immunity to battleshock, the Hammerers are respectable threats to my opponent even prior to receiving buffs. The general's Honored Retinue is typically the target of the Ironoak Skin and Pha's Protection spells, which if cast successfully mean that any attacks targeting that unit are penalized -1 to hit and -1 to wound. That unit, alongside the general and adjutant, move to take the center of the board, claiming an objective and hopefully positioning to potentially maximize the targets available for the Warden King's Ancestral Grudge command ability in following rounds. The Runelords each support a different unit of Hammerers, activating those units' Kingsguard ability; each of those teams are then used to secure my flanks, take backfield objectives, or otherwise complicating my opponent's rollout. The Dreadlord on Black Dragon and two units of Drakespawn Chariots are held in reserve via the Hunters of the Hidden Paths rule, deploying first turn on my opponent's flank in position to charge the biggest threat. Each shoots with their respective Repeater Crossbows during the first shooting phase, so to become eligible for the Strike then Melt Away command ability. Depending on how many command points I have available, as many of those Order Serpentis units as possible then benefit from the Strike then Melt Away command ability to move within charge range of my opponent's biggest remaining threat. In the resulting alpha strike, unless my opponent has special rules in play from their faction to negate the following, the Chariots will do their Scythed Runners damage, the Dreadlord on Black Dragon will get its first strike attacks via Spear of the Hunt, and one of the Chariot units will resolve its attacks all before the charged unit can respond. This hopefully compels my opponent's attention while the Dispossessed units continue their own advance. I look forward to your feedback and conversation! Allegiance: Cities of Sigmar- City: Living CityMortal Realm: GhyranLeadersRunelord (90)Runelord (90)Warden King (100)- General- Command Trait: Druid of the Everspring - Ironoak SkinBattlemage (110)- Lore of Leaves: Lifesurge- City Role: General's Adjutant- Mortal Realm: HyshDreadlord on Black Dragon (300)- Lance of Spite & Repeater Crossbow- Artefact: Spear of the HuntBattleline20 x Hammerers (280)- City Role: Honoured Retinue (Must be 5-20 models)20 x Hammerers (280)20 x Hammerers (280)Units3 x Drakespawn Chariots (210)3 x Drakespawn Chariots (210)Endless Spells / Terrain / CPsExtra Command Point (50)Total: 2000 / 2000Extra Command Points: 1Allies: 0 / 400Wounds: 130

Quick updates... thank you for the suggestion of collapsing the Freeguild Greatswords into a single, 20-model unit. That was a helpful call. I also changed the Runelord's artefact to the Agloraxi Prism. Keeping the Runelord alive to ensure the Hammerer unit's immunity to Battleshock is important; the Agloraxi Prism, combined with Look Out Sir!, helps deter opportunistic sniping. Overall, the list is surprisingly competitive and fun. Please let me know if you have any further feedback to share, even if simply to note what strengths you see in it which I could continue to enhance. Thanks again!

Hello! I am exploring other factions while I wait for an update to my main army. I appreciate Cities of Sigmar's versatility and the following list is both enjoyable and surprisingly competitive. The intent is to use the speed of the Darkling Covens to maximize Tempest Eye's first round movement and protection buffs. With adjutant, artefact, and spell, the list has three ways to get additional command points on the first turn. With these options in play, I hopefully have at least two command points on my first turn. These are allocated to run and charge my maxed-out units of Executioners early in the game, supporting each with one of my two Sorceresses on Black Dragons. Benefitting from Blood Sacrifice, the Sorceresses on Black Dragons attempt to cast Aura of Glory and Mystic Shield on their respective target. These forces take the center objectives and/or engage the opponent's core threats. Meanwhile, the general casts Balewind Vortex and, if successful, I place it as far forward as possible towards the center of the table. This permits the general to hopefully first cast Celestial Visions each turn while then being able to cast Word of Pain on an opposing unit anywhere on the battlefield. The Irondrakes either move forward for a first turn of shooting (should I gain enough command points to permit early use of Rapid Redeploy) or instead screen the general and remain in Honored Retinue's range. The unit of Black Guard is likely the beneficiary of the Battlemage's Wildform spell, either locking down backfield objectives, engaging opponent's alpha strikes, or positioning itself to countercharge during the following turn. I look forward to your thoughts on the list. Thanks for the conversation! Allegiance: Cities of Sigmar- City: Tempest's EyeMortal Realm: AqshyLeadersSorceress on Black Dragon (300)- Darkling Sword- Lore of Eagles: Aura of GlorySorceress on Black Dragon (300)- Darkling Sword- Lore of Eagles: Aura of GlorySorceress (90)- General- Command Trait: Hawk-eyed- Lore of Eagles: Celestial VisionsBattlemage (110)- Artefact: Seerstone Amulet- Lore of Eagles: Strike of Eagles- City Role: General's Adjutant- Mortal Realm: GhurBattleline30 x Executioners (300)30 x Executioners (300)20 x Black Guard (260)Units20 x Irondrakes (300)- City Role: Honoured Retinue (Must be 5-20 models)Endless Spells / Terrain / CPsBalewind Vortex (40)Total: 2000 / 2000Extra Command Points: 0Allies: 0 / 400Wounds: 138

Thanks for this feedback. I considered Hammerhal, but Hallowheart ends up being a better fit and more productive. It is a matter of survivability. Hallowheart's magic resistance is really useful in the current environment, as is the blanket immunity to battleshock. Meanwhile, Hammerhal might offer a bit more initial punch on the charge, but this list provides more flexibility so to not be dependent on always getting the first strike. Instead, Hallowheart helps it be better at counterpunching. This is why I went with cavalry halberds on the demigryph knights, rather than lances. Is there anything in the list that is particularly interesting or catches your eye, both in terms of the build itself and how I described its use?

Hello! I'm hoping to play some different factions until the Beasts of Chaos receive an update. I've enjoyed Cities of Sigmar and I'm discovering the following to be rather successful. Rather than focus on the bonus to casting potential of Hallowheart, I've built my list to benefit from its magic resistance and the expansive immunity to battleshock its general can provide. Together, these have let me build out two solid demigryph knight units which otherwise are somewhat vulnerable to battleshock and spell-sniping. The list has its two greatsword units take backfield objectives. The demigryph knights and general on griffon charge forward to secure midfield objectives. The runelord and hammerers take the center of the board, hopefully benefiting from the Crystal Aegis spell to further enhance its survivability. The two sisters of the thorn units maneuver where needed. Here's the list. I look forward to your feedback! Allegiance: Cities of Sigmar- City: HallowheartMortal Realm: AqshyLeadersFreeguild General on Griffon (320)- General- Shield & Greathammer- Command Trait: Veteran of the Blazing CrusadeRunelord (90)- Artefact: Whitefire Tome - Crystal AegisBattleline6 x Demigryph Knights (360)- Cavalry Halberd6 x Demigryph Knights (360)- Cavalry Halberd10 x Freeguild Greatswords (140)10 x Freeguild Greatswords (140)Units20 x Hammerers (280)5 x Sisters of the Thorn (130)- Lore of Whitefire: Roaming Wildfire- Hallowheart 2nd Spell: Sear Wounds5 x Sisters of the Thorn (130)- Lore of Whitefire: Warding Brand- Hallowheart 2nd Spell: Ignite WeaponsEndless Spells / Terrain / CPsExtra Command Point (50)Total: 2000 / 2000Extra Command Points: 1Allies: 0 / 400Wounds: 126

Good to hear from you all this holiday season. Thanks for continuing the conversation! I am happy to report that the list actually does rather well in the current environment. I think that it is the case precisely because the points you raised seem reasonable and my opponents respond according to such critique, yet are unprepared for the combination of Dragon Ogors' resiliency and the movement capabilities of this list. To be clear, I suspect even Thunderscorn and Warherd lists still manifest the main critique against the Beasts of Chaos: the army is built around controlling objectives, not outright combat prowess. I agree with assessment. Yet, what is interesting is that this list can still control objectives albeit in a fashion different from Brayherd or Desolating Beastherd/Brass Despoiler MSU spam. Instead of swamping the battefield with blockers (a tactic I suspect will prove less useful on a post-Sons of Behemat environment), the Dragon Ogors move forward to hold two or so main contested objectives, hopefully holding firm while the Bullgor unit and summoned units pick off either the opponent's crucial characters or, recently more frequently, the opposing battleline. Typically, the two x6 Dragon Ogor units move forward to control/contest the middle of the board and its objectives, with each unit teamed with one of the artefact-wielding Shaggoths. I might also or alternatively use these units to tie up particularly frightening opposing forces that I do not want maneuvering freely around the board. The third Dragon Ogor unit stays near the herdstone to be used (and hopefully healed) by the third Shaggoth; after two or so turns of summoning (and hopefully healing), this smaller Dragon unit w/ Shaggoth combo is often used to as a second wave/clean-up force. The Bullgors are positioned to either go for a character kill, if the opposing force is particularly dependent on characters, or to destroy blobs of infantry. The Bullgors are usually the target of a successfully cast Sundering Blades spell. I find the re-rolls with Dual Blades can make a difference; plus, as noted, I like the homage to old-school Primal Fury rules that this list provides. The Brayherd units use depends on the opposing force. If confronting an army that is likely to simply surge forward against my forces, I might use the Brayherd as blockers and backfield objective holders. Against character-heavy lists, especially those focused on spellcasting, I might ambush some or all of the Brayherd to disrupt my opponent's backlines. Overall, the benefit to the Brayherd additions to this list are in their flexibility. With them, I have additional options to hopefully complicate my opponent's decision-making process. The Wildfire Taurus is often used when charges are likely, hopefully in a way that allows one x6 Dragon Ogor w/ Shaggoth combo to attack before their own target can respond, while either Bullgors or the other x6 Dragon Ogor w/ Shaggoth general combo activates first. With the mobility provided by Creatures of the Storm combined with Horn of the Tempest, I can hopefully get the endless spell to impact multiple opposing units, helping increase the likelihood that my own forces get their attacks in before opposing units respond. By the way, I've begun exploring using the Tanglehorn Familiars with my general. While I like the idea of using the more combat-focused artefacts, especially with my Lightning-fast Monstrosity, the ability to cancel a turn of my opponent's spellcasting is compelling, especially in the current environment. Again, this list is like other Beasts of Chaos lists in that it should not be played with the expectation of going head-to-head with armies built for all-out frontal assaults. Nonetheless, what I think this list does well is playing to the Beasts of Chaos strategy of controlling the board in a way that feels and plays out differently from the more common MSU, Brayherd or Desolating Beastherd/Brass Despoilers builds. While the latter might be a bit more accessible to master, with perhaps a bit less risk involved related to a single turn's outcome swinging the game against the Beasts of Chaos, this list can take a surprising amount of hits and nonetheless remain in the fight. I hope that helps explain some of the strategy behind the list's structure and how I put its various pieces together to win. Please continue to share your ideas and questions! Thanks again and happy wargaming!

Around this time last year, I posted my Thunderscorn Stormherd list. Since then, I've refined it a bit, as it remains a lot of fun. Not too many expect such a list from a Beasts of Chaos match-up, especially since it seems that the multiple small unit approach, largely centered on Brayherd units, is a more prevalent Beasts of Chaos playstyle. I'm swapping back and forth between the Ancestral Azyrite Blade and the Lightning-Chained Bracers for my general artefact, as I'm unsure which results consistently in more wounds. For now, I think I like the latter more. A move over the past year was focusing on re-rolls in this list, to nurture consist output. Such is why I moved from equipping the Bullgor unit with Dual Axes rather than Great Axes; re-rolling ones helps make a difference. In fact, the elite monstrous infantry units in this list now all re-roll ones when positioned appropriately and the Bestigors re-roll ones versus Order units. It's a bit of an homage to the old Primal Fury rule from old-school Beastmen, one which also helps during the game. One of the nice things about this list is that when Wildfire Taurus is successful cast, I can three of more units attack prior to opponent's full response. The general and its accompanying unit of Dragon Ogors charge in one direction with another unit or units charging the target of the endless spell. This lets me have the general strike first before activations, then have its accompanying unit attack as the first activation, while allowing the third unit to attack before its own target gets to respond. This can make a big difference in outcomes, especially if I manage to successfully cast Sundering Blades on the Bullgor unit. I'm uncertain about which realm is home to this list. I'm partial to Hysh, yet I'm still imagining which realm is best storywise for the list's concept. So, here's the current list. I look forward to discussing your thoughts! Allegiance: Beasts of ChaosLeadersDragon Ogor Shaggoth (170)- General- Command Trait: Lightning-fast Monstrosity- Artefact: Lightning-chained Bracers- Lore of Dark Storms: ThunderwaveDragon Ogor Shaggoth (170)- Artefact: Horn of the Tempest- Lore of Dark Storms: Sundering BladesDragon Ogor Shaggoth (170)- Lore of Dark Storms: HailstormBattleline6 x Dragon Ogors (260)- 6x Draconic War glaives6 x Dragon Ogors (260)- 6x Draconic War glaives3 x Dragon Ogors (130)- 3x Draconic War glaivesUnits6 x Bullgors (280)- Pairs of Axes10 x Bestigors (120)10 x Bestigors (120)10 x Ungor Raiders (80)BattalionsThunderscorn Stormherd (160)Endless Spells / Terrain / CPsWildfire Taurus (80)Total: 2000 / 2000Extra Command Points: 1Allies: 0 / 400Wounds: 159

Thanks for the continued conversation! I am glad this looks like a fun option for you! It really is an enjoyable, interesting change of pace for Beasts of Chaos. Even better, it is also disproving the notion that mass Ungor, horde-style play is the only competitive point of departure for this faction. Perhaps it takes a bit more work to play, as timing and alignment of charges are crucial to playing this kind of list successfully, but overall I think it demonstrates that a Beasts of Chaos "elite" army can compete. Regarding Bravery concerns, I, too, considered those risks. Such was why I originally played this kind of list with the Allherd Greatfray: the battleshock buff from that subfaction was attractive to me. However, I am finding that, as long as I am careful with Hero movement to support my units, Inspiring Presence helps with most battleshock issues. There are specific times when it does not; for example, a Nighthaunt Shrieker Host might be problematic. Overall, though, saving command points for Inspiring Presence is a somewhat consistent response, especially given the multiwound, multi-healing options available to sustain the units. I hope that helps. What do you think?

Some good news and Thunderscorn updates... I made some small changes to my 2000pt GHB20 list and I'm happy to report that things seem to be progressing well. The main difference is that I took a chance on a more "smashmouth" approach (shout-out to the old Herdstone forums crew!), with artefacts, spells, and traits that hopefully ensure initial charges cripple opposing forces. Equipped so, Thunderscorn can field at least two sets of Shaggoth-backed, 6-model units of Dragon Ogors which, if supported properly, can strike before their opposition retaliates. Leading up to charges against two separate targets, one Thunderscorn set includes the general with the Lightning-fast Monstrosity trait; the other Thunderscorn set is hopefully successful in casting Wildfire Taurus. With movement buffed by both Creatures of the Storm and Horn of the Tempest, getting these units into an advantageous charge position is rarely difficult. With successful charges, one set gets its attacks in before its target can strike back, while the other group attacks prior to its target due to the Endless Spell's debuff. The result is a level of damage output that I find to be rather surprising to players who are unfamiliar with the Thunderscorn. My smaller set of Thunderscorn, with its Shaggoth and 3-model unit of Dragon Ogors, handles Herdstone duty, benefiting from both Raging Storm and Summon Lightning to heal damage inflicted by Primordial Call sacrifices. Meanwhile, my unit of Bullgor hopefully take down the biggest threat on the board, my two units of Bestigor block or claim objectives, and my unit of Ungor Raiders either screens or otherwise disrupts my opponent's positioning. Here's my current list. I hope you find it to be fun! Allegiance: Beasts of ChaosLeadersDragon Ogor Shaggoth (170)- General- Command Trait: Lightning-fast Monstrosity- Artefact: Ancestral Azyrite Blade- Lore of Dark Storms: Sundering BladesDragon Ogor Shaggoth (170)- Artefact: Horn of the Tempest- Lore of Dark Storms: HailstormDragon Ogor Shaggoth (170)- Lore of Dark Storms: ThunderwaveBattleline6 x Dragon Ogors (260)- 6x Draconic War glaives6 x Dragon Ogors (260)- 6x Draconic War glaives3 x Dragon Ogors (130)- 3x Draconic War glaivesUnits6 x Bullgors (280)- Great Axes10 x Bestigors (120)10 x Bestigors (120)10 x Ungor Raiders (80)BattalionsThunderscorn Stormherd (160)Endless Spells / Terrain / CPsWildfire Taurus (80)Total: 2000 / 2000Extra Command Points: 1Allies: 0 / 400Wounds: 159

Welp, a few tweaks to the Thunderscorn list, given the new GHB 2020 changes. With Malign Sorcery artefacts out, I am shifting the concept a bit in terms of how I kit out the list. The results are rather fun. I made the decision to go with the Allherd Greatfray, as the Bestial Might ability really complements this list well. With so many Bravery 6, multi-wound models, the Allherd ability lets the big units hopefully shrug off losing a model each turn without the threat of Battleshock. It seems like a small thing while theorycrafting, but the tabletop benefit of such peace of mind is useful. In this build, I turned my general into a 18" movement buff, giving that Shaggoth both the Dominator command trait and the Horn of the Tempest artefact. That way, the general and its unit of three Dragon Ogors serve as a point around which the larger Thunderscorn teams can pivot. I am excited that swapping my Great Bray-Shaman for a Doombull seems to be worth it. Equipped with the Blade of the Desecrator, the Doombull holds back for Herdstone duty alongside the Ungor until mid- to late game. At that time, it moves forward as a fresh, high Rend threat to clean up remaining battleline that are holding objectives. In a list that already has three casters, and if used in the way outlined here, I find that the Doombull option is surprisingly more effective than the Great Bray-Shaman, at the same cost. The other option I examined retained the Great Bray-Shaman, giving it The Knowing Eye in tandem with the general's Ancient Beyond Knowing trait so to hopefully have a solid bank of command points. Other Thunderscorn artefacts were explored to serve as this kind of list's second artefact, with the Tanglehorn Familiars being surprisingly useful. However, this build was a a bit swingy, dependent as it is on random generation of extra command points. I think I prefer the Doombull option with movement buffs, though I might at some point return to an Ancestral Azyrite Blade - Blade of the Desecrator build. I keep trying to figure out how to add Wildfire Taurus to the list, as I do think the spell would be useful. However, the points are tight right now. I might swap out the two Bestigor units with two units of Chaos Warhounds, which would open up points enough for the spell. I am hesitant to do so, since even though I do use the Bestigor as blockers, they are a significant threat in and of themselves. As I test the list, I'll hope to report back and share the experiences.

I thought about that option, yet I prefer the consistency of the extra range and Rend. Certainly, such is the case with the six-model units of Dragon Ogors. If I was to test out the Ancient Paired Weapons, I would likely use them with the three-model unit. The six extra attacks is admittedly appealing, though I think the Rend is generally more useful. By the way, this list goes from 2000pt to 2500pt very easily. I simply add the following: +1 Beastlord (90pt) +1 x4 Tuskgor Chariots (200pt) +1 x10 Ungors (60pt) + Desolating Beastherd (150pt) I'm debating whether the extra Artefact would be the Horn of the Tempest for the Dragon Ogor Shaggoth general, or the Gildenbane for the Beastlord (which is presumably ambushing alongside the Tuskgor Chariots). At 2500pt, the list also goes conveniently from six drops to two, with all units consolidated into the two battalions. Whether at 2000pt or 2500pt, I think this list has the potential to challenge both conventional wisdom regarding Beasts of Chaos, as well as some of the more competitive lists currently on the scene. I hope we can continue to explore the opportunities together!

I'm pretty pleased with the new points. While the possibility of a confronting Decker's Phantasmagoria of Fate with my own Pestilent Throng continues to intrigue me, the new points help me return to a solid, explicitly Beasts of Chaos list. Specifically, I can now run what I hope will be a rather competitive new option: a revision of my Thunderscorn list. 2000pt THUNDERSCORN STORMHERD LIST Allegiance: Beasts of Chaos Greatfray: None Realm: Chamon HEROES #1 Dragon Ogor Shaggoth (170pt) General Command Trait: Ancient Beyond Knowing Spell: Hailstorm #2 Dragon Ogor Shaggoth (170pt) Artefact: Ancestral Azyrite Blade Spell: Thunderwave #3 Dragon Ogor Shaggoth (170pt) Artefact: Rune Blade Spell: Sundering Blades Great Bray-Shaman (100pt) Spell: Tendrils of Atrophy BATTLELINE #1 x3 Dragon Ogors (130pt) Draconic War-glaives #2 x6 Dragon Ogors (260pt) Draconic War-glaives #3 x6 Dragon Ogors (260pt) Draconic War-glaives x10 Ungors (60pt) Ungor Blades UNITS #1 x10 Bestigor (120pt) #2 x10 Bestigor (120pt) x6 Bullgors (280pt) Great Axes BATTALIONS Thunderscorn Stormherd (160pt) DESCRIPTION Each of the Shaggoth are teamed with their respective Dragon Ogor unit, so to ensure that the Dragon Ogors units are re-rolling ones via Storm Rage. The two six-model Dragon Ogor units team with their corresponding Shaggoths, which each have -3 Rend, making those units my main answer to opposing hammers. In fact, most units in this list have a 4+ save, a To Wound of 3+, a Movement of at least 6", and at least -1 Rend, making it fairly consistent stat-wise. Further, the healing options that the list possesses (mostly via Bloodgreed and Summon Lightning, but also more sporadically via Raging Storm and Beneath the Tempest), though limited, are not insignificant; the extra wounds provided by these options collectively help the list play into the late game. This is also a fast list, with the ability to get heavy units into position quickly. The Bestigor units capture backfield objectives or serve as early blockers, with their movement potentially buffed by the Great Bray-Shaman. The Bullgors hopefully break anything with a particularly nasty save, as I tend to buff that Warherd unit with Sundering Blades to increase their Rend to -3. The Great Bray-Shaman and Ungors are used to generate Primordial Call points until late game, and then help block and debuff opposing units. Summoned units are usually deployed to block or otherwise harass opposing units, or take objectives. What do you think? I look forward to your feedback!