AoS 2 - Clan Skyre Discussion

[Skorp]

I assume the plagueclaw is a no no because of ally restrictions between pestilend and skryre? Thought everthing was gonna be skaventide, but I guess that is a different allegiance. 

I would have wanted a third cannon rather than the plagueclaw but built it from the SC kit over a year ago. I might see if I can trade it or get another cannon cheaply.

The idea was definitely to try and hide the acolytes behind the other things to move the bell up as much as possible before they die. And yes, the stormfiends can help move the bell if needed in later turns. I'm kind of in agreement more acolytes would be better but you start to wonder if clanrats might be a superior option to move the bell if your need is just bodies. 

I'd want 20 acolytes but like the plagueclaw theyre already built as monks and some will be more difficult to convert than worth the effort for now. Might be able to squeeze more acolytes from the other kits. Will have to give it a try and see what the right number is. 

I'm breaking from my yearly goals for this army, 30 models for 2000 points, thats new to me. 

@ZinnarI would love some advise on how to equip the stormfiends for this type of list. I was thinking you'd want them up in their face as a distraction early but potentionally supporting the bell in later turns. 

Edited February 18, 2019 by Skorp

[Zinnar]

@Skorp

Sucks about the Plagueclaw.

Honestly, I don't know what to do with Stormfiends. I am going to try and get some playtesting in with various builds this weekend if possible. If you haven't built them yet, then I'd definitely suggest just magnetizing them. They might be the easiest kits to magnetize in the history of Warhammer. I'd think that if you are keeping them near the bell, then you'd probably want Grinderfists/Warpfire/Shock Gauntlets to help clear up things that tackle the bell.

Then again, I could also see an argument to be made for Ratling/Mortar/choice Stormfiends in this list, sitting back and shooting from near the cannons. Either way, I'm very curious about it, and the core structure of 2xFiends, Acolyte Blob, Bell, 2x Cannons, 2x Doomwheels seems...really solid, especially with the right spells on your Bell (probably Plague?).

 

EDIT: And I do agree- Clanrats are better if your goal is to keep the Bell alive and mobile, which is what you usually want. But, what I love about this list is that the bell is a really nice 200 point distraction unit while the rest of the list focuses on blasting things apart. Hell, the Acolytes might even get to shoot a few times in this list, which is weird!

Edited February 18, 2019 by Zinnar

[5kaven5lave]

What’s the verdict on MSU Acolytes? Can a mini blob of 5 achieve anything (even as a distraction)?

[Skreech Verminking]

1 minute ago, 5kaven5lave said:

What’s the verdict on MSU Acolytes? Can a mini blob of 5 achieve anything (even as a distraction)?

You could technically buff them and hope your foe sees a much more dangerous foe in them then in any other units you have.

[Gwendar]

20 minutes ago, 5kaven5lave said:

What’s the verdict on MSU Acolytes? Can a mini blob of 5 achieve anything (even as a distraction)?

5 have only ever been home objective holders since 1x5 or 2x5 were needed as a battleline tax previously. I don't think buffing 5 of them (who, with more-more-more warp power will probably die) is worth it in anyway.

I think if you want them to have a purpose outside of that, they need to be in units of 10-30.

Speaking of which... @Kirjava13 Since you were so curious about Acolyte potential, I think I will be trying out 3x20 or 2x20 & 1x30 Acolytes in the coming weeks just for fun. It will most assuredly end in defeat but man, the curiosity is killing me.

[Kirjava13]

13 minutes ago, Gwendar said:

Speaking of which... @Kirjava13 Since you were so curious about Acolyte potential, I think I will be trying out 3x20 or 2x20 & 1x30 Acolytes in the coming weeks just for fun. It will most assuredly end in defeat but man, the curiosity is killing me.

I'm desperate to get my paws on just four more masks so I can get to twenty. I'm convinced that with More-More-More Warp Power and a spark they can be truly lethal and I'm determined to try it on Friday. When's your next game?

[Baron Wastelands]

Ok, so I have been playing around with Stormfiends, and have discovered this:

A unit of 6 with 2 Ratling cannons, 2 windlaunchers, 2 shock gauntlets (or the doomflayers , it doesn’t matter much, though I think the shock gauntlets will slightly outperform) when buffed by a general with deranged inventor and vigordust injector (and popping a spark for additional damage) will throw out an obscene amount of shots. Try it - you’ll like it! The windlaunchers do a solid amount at range and from out of sight, but then the ratling cannons really come into their own: 6d6 (avg 21) damage 2 shots, hitting on 3+ rerollable, wounding on 3+. That’s an average of 12 wounding rend 1 damage 2 hits. 

if you can get a spell off (mmwarppower) on them too, you can Reroll wounds too (and use deranged inventor on a different unit) for an average of nearly 17 wounding rend 1 damage 2 hits.

remember the windlaunchers also get +1 to hit against units over 10, meaning they will also reasonably reliably deal an average of about 9 wounds (at -3 rend), or 13 when the unit is affected by the spell.

You have to take d3 wounds a bit, more if you’re using the spell,  but the gauntleted ones give you 14 wounds before you start to lose effectiveness.

As such, I’m having lots of experimental fun with a Vanguard list of:

Arch warlock - deranged inventor, vigordust injector

6x stormfiends, 2 ratling, 2 launchers, 2 shock g

3x stormfiends, warpfire, grinderfists, shock g

5x acolytes

1000pts.

[Gwendar]

1 hour ago, Kirjava13 said:

I'm desperate to get my paws on just four more masks so I can get to twenty. I'm convinced that with More-More-More Warp Power and a spark they can be truly lethal and I'm determined to try it on Friday. When's your next game?

I have some ugly Acolytes I converted that I could use but I really want to build my new ones... but outside of buying boxes of ironbreakers for guns, I've had a hard time finding Drakeguns.

I'll have 1-3 games this Saturday for a tourney at my flgs using the previously posted list, but the weekend after that I will try running at least 1x30 Acolytes to see what they do. It'll be some time before I can actually make 70 of the things, unfortunately.

Edited February 18, 2019 by Gwendar

[Nehcrux]

Just picked up Carrion Empire for my first Sigmar army.

Planned on purchasing another 3 stormfiends to make a simple 1000 points list.

 

Warlock Bombardier - 100

3 Stormfiends - 260

3 Stormfiends - 260

Doomwheel - 160

Warp Lightning Cannon - 180

960 total.

 

Viable to learn the game? Probably isn’t ideal, but just looking to jump in quickly.

 

 

Edited February 18, 2019 by Nehcrux

[Overread]

@Nehcrux Sounds good honestly. The Stormfiends are battleline and you only need 2 battleline units for 1K game. So yes that would be a legal and functional list for Clan Skyre. The other option would be acolytes, though they are somewhat pricey. The real trick will be how you arm and operate your stormfiends. 

 

Also with the remaining 40 points you could get yourself an Endless Spell. There's quite a few of the general ones (from the Maligan Sorcery boxed set) which are 40 or less points (some at 20 so you could get 2 that way). Or you could keep pure to Skaven and take the Bell or Vermintide Endless Spells

[Nehcrux]

@Overread thanks for the quick reply! How would you suggest arming the Stormfiends?

 

I completely forgot about the endless spells, do you think I’m better with Maligan Sorcery, or just sticking to the Skaven ones?

[Overread]

2 minutes ago, Nehcrux said:

@Overread thanks for the quick reply! How would you suggest arming the Stormfiends?

 

I completely forgot about the endless spells, do you think I’m better with Maligan Sorcery, or just sticking to the Skaven ones?

Both are good depending on what you want to do. All three skaven spells are solid and the Vortex is very powerful - though too expensive for this list its certainly a spell to have access too (esp as you take this army forward to 2K). Meanwhile MS has some great choices; soulsnare shackles is a very neat ability letting you put a stop on the enemy and there are more non-predatory spells in there which have less risk of blowing back in your face; or some like the Pendulum which can be slowed by an opponent; but not swung back into your forces at least 

[Kirjava13]

1 minute ago, Nehcrux said:

How would you suggest arming the Stormfiends?

If you're making a ranged unit: Ratling Guns and Windlaunchers. Build Grinderfists if planning to "deep strike" (we really need an AoS version of that). Shock Gauntlets for hordes, Doom Flayer Gauntlets for elites with lots of armour.

As for endless spells, for 40 points you can have the Bell or the Vermintide. The Bell wouldn't be that useful for a 1000 point army with nine models, and honestly I'm not certain about Vermintide's worth yet. Malign Sorcery is a good bet, though it's quite the extra purchase. Aethervoid Pendulum is always a good pick.

[Major]

So I want a Clan Skryer army but I now have like, maybe, 80 Clanrats that I am not sure I can even use any more? What are our actual battleline options now? I'm still tryign to wrap my head around how this new book works with Masterclan and clan skryer or whatever that synergy is. Mostly I am just wondering what I can do as a solution for battleline other than having to field 3 units of Stormfiends... Are the acolytes even worth it? Can I still use my clanrats somehow and maintain Skryer? Perhaps I am better off as a Skaventide allegiance? 

[CJPT]

14 minutes ago, Major said:

So I want a Clan Skryer army but I now have like, maybe, 80 Clanrats that I am not sure I can even use any more? What are our actual battleline options now? I'm still tryign to wrap my head around how this new book works with Masterclan and clan skryer or whatever that synergy is. Mostly I am just wondering what I can do as a solution for battleline other than having to field 3 units of Stormfiends... Are the acolytes even worth it? Can I still use my clanrats somehow and maintain Skryer? Perhaps I am better off as a Skaventide allegiance? 

Short version: yes. It's causing a lot of confusion that people have been referring to 'Skryre allegiance' when that doesn't actually exist - or at least, it doesn't work in the same sense that any other 'allegiance' in AoS works.

There's only one Skaven allegiance - Skaventide. By default, Skaventide battleline options are Clan Rats and Stormvermin.

Clan abilities - sparks, traits and artifacts for Skryre, in this case - are accessed by having Skryre heroes in a Skaventide army. NOT by having an all-Skryre army.

If you have an all-Skryre army, you gain access to Stormfiends and Acolytes as battleline. You can also do this if your general is Masterclan, as long as every other unit in the army in Skryre.

So the only choice to make is 'which set of battleline options do I want', because you can't mix and match them. You can make a 'Skryre' army by combining Skryre heroes with either clanrats/Stormvermin or Stormfiends/Acolytes. The strength of the former is that you've got a lot of versatility. The strength of the latter is that you can focus on the Skryre units (many of which benefit from synergies) and build towards the Skryre batallion (which doesn't include any non-Skryre units.)

Hope that helps!

[Major]

28 minutes ago, CJPT said:

Short version: yes. It's causing a lot of confusion that people have been referring to 'Skryre allegiance' when that doesn't actually exist - or at least, it doesn't work in the same sense that any other 'allegiance' in AoS works.

There's only one Skaven allegiance - Skaventide. By default, Skaventide battleline options are Clan Rats and Stormvermin.

Clan abilities - sparks, traits and artifacts for Skryre, in this case - are accessed by having Skryre heroes in a Skaventide army. NOT by having an all-Skryre army.

If you have an all-Skryre army, you gain access to Stormfiends and Acolytes as battleline. You can also do this if your general is Masterclan, as long as every other unit in the army in Skryre.

 So the only choice to make is 'which set of battleline options do I want', because you can't mix and match them. You can make a 'Skryre' army by combining Skryre heroes with either clanrats/Stormvermin or Stormfiends/Acolytes. The strength of the former is that you've got a lot of versatility. The strength of the latter is that you can focus on the Skryre units (many of which benefit from synergies) and build towards the Skryre batallion (which doesn't include any non-Skryre units.)

Hope that helps!

I wont lie, that does help but I am still confused. I t could be either the coffee isn't kicking in yet or the new way Skaven works is too convoluted for someone as basic as myself. lol

[Orchid89]

Yea, tbh I don't get it either... I'm trying really hard to though!

[Kirjava13]

If you want to be able to use the clan troops (units from Skryre, Pestilens, Moulder and Eshin, eg Stormfiends, Plague Monks, Giant Rats, Gutter Runners) as Battleline then your entire army must be 100% <CLAN>, except for your general, who is allowed to be Masterclan. 

Anything else, your only Battleline options are Clanrats and/or Stormvermin.

Example: you want to use Plague Monks as your main infantry? Fantastic. You just can't use Rat Ogors, Warp Lightning Cannons, Stormvermin or Nightrunners. You can take a Masterclan unit as your general, but you can't have anything else that doesn't have the PESTILENS keyword, or you won't be able to use your Plague Monks as Battleline (confusingly enough, this means that a mixed Skaven army can ally Nurgle, but not pure Pestilens!).

Yes, it's dumb, no, it probably won't change.

Edited February 19, 2019 by Kirjava13

[CJPT]

I do think a lot of the confusion stems from people referring to clans as 'allegiances', when that simply isn't the case any more. An allegiance in AoS grants you special rules, spell lores, command traits, and artifacts. All of that comes from Skaventide.

The clans themselves are more like those 'Battleline if your general is...' rules, with a bunch of additional (admittedly complicated) factors.

There is nothing stopping you creating a predominantly Skryre army with clanrats as your battleline: it just means that your Stormfiends won't count towards your battleline requirement.

I think this is actually a pretty cool solution, because it provides a clear bonus to mono-clan armies while allowing for interesting mixed lists. You can break 'pure' Skryre allegiance, still take advantage of all of the Skryre artifacts and spells and command traits (but not the battalion), and in return gain access to every other Skaven unit without any other limits or penalties.

If they'd instead written the clans as individual allegiances, the only way to achieve something similar would be to give them interlinking ally tables - and the balance there is incredibly hard to strike. If the list were restrictive, it doesn't fit the fiction and it'd heavily limit builds. If it were more open - if the clans could all ally with each other - then individual allegiances lose their identity and you'd probably never see a mixed Skaventide list.

[Baron Wastelands]

6 hours ago, Kirjava13 said:

Example: you want to use Plague Monks as your main infantry? Fantastic. You just can't use Rat Ogors, Warp Lightning Cannons, Stormvermin or Nightrunners. You can take a Masterclan unit as your general, but you can't have anything else that doesn't have the PESTILENS keyword, or you won't be able to use your Plague Monks as Battleline (confusingly enough, this means that a mixed Skaven army can ally Nurgle, but not pure Pestilens!).

But only then if your general is Pestilens! 🤪

Ignore that if you’re trying to still wrap your head around it. I think @CJPT said it really clearly, but maybe an example army would help.

imagine: Arch Warlock, Master Moulder, 40 clanrats, 40 clanrats, 3 stormfiends. This mixes clans, so only your clanrats count as battleline. You have 2 so that’s fine for 1k. You warlock and stormfiends get to use Skryre abilities (sparks), your moulder gets to use moulder abilities (hmm, should’ve brought an HPA), and they all get to use skaven tide abilities (strength in numbers etc). EITHER hero can be your general, and can use a command trait from their clan. EITHER can have an artifact, again from their respective clan. The allegiance of the army is: skaventide.

in order to use the stormfiends as battleline, you’d need to remove the non-skryre elements - I.e. the clanrats and the master moulder. Being 100% Clan Skryre changes nothing except the ability to use stormfiends and acolytes as Battleline.

So: Arch warlock, 3 stormfiends, 3 stormfiends, 3 stormfiends, 5 acolytes is a 1k list with 4 battleline units. 

However: Arch warlock, 40 clanrats, 3 stormfiends, 3 stormfiends, 5 acolytes is a list where the clanrats prevent the use of the other units as battleline, so only the clanrats themselves count as battleline. You need more than 1 battleline at 1k, so invalid.

Then, the peculiar exception to all this is that you can replace any general with a masterclan general without mucking up the 100% clan requirement.

so: grey seer, 3 stormfiends, 3 stormfiends, 3 stormfiends, 5 acolytes is still a 1k list with 4 battleline units. 

 

 

 

Oh, and then don’t try to ally without a handrail.

Edited February 19, 2019 by Baron Wastelands

[Riff_Raff_Rascal]

I was curious if anyone has seen the skryre battalion that came along with the carrion empire boxset? I'm currently not in the mood for spending points on the battletomes battalion. 

[CJPT]

20 hours ago, Riff_Raff_Rascal said:

I was curious if anyone has seen the skryre battalion that came along with the carrion empire boxset? I'm currently not in the mood for spending points on the battletomes battalion. 

Skatchnik's Warpcoven (140 points)

1 Warlock Bombardier

1 Warp Lightning Cannon

1 Doomwheel

1 unit of 3 Stormfiends

In the first battle round, roll a dice each time a wound or a mortal wound is allocated to a model from this battalion. On a 5+ that wound or mortal wound is negated.

[GeneralZero]

19 minutes ago, CJPT said:

Skatchnik's Warpcoven (140 points)

It is not in the battletome, meaning that it won't be playable in official matched play.  (but you can play it if you want as it has some points cost)

[Kirjava13]

32 minutes ago, GeneralZero said:

It is not in the battletome, meaning that it won't be playable in official matched play.  (but you can play it if you want as it has some points cost)

Does it say that somewhere? By that logic, Forge World models are not playable in official matched play.

[Overread]

28 minutes ago, Kirjava13 said:

Does it say that somewhere? By that logic, Forge World models are not playable in official matched play.

I can't remember where (one of the FAQ documents?) but I seem to recall that the box battalions are not viable in matched play. I think its mostly becasue they are priced just to make the two box armies equal in points rather than based on any balance outside of the box itself. 

Forgeworld is somewhat different these days and is generally accepted most places.