Zinnar
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Everything posted by Zinnar
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Hey @Num I really like your custom heroes! Friend of mine showed me pictures of his GHB, and I think you're missing something - you have to pay the baseline 3 points for the "Skaven Ancestry" for all those guys. That being said, I really really like the warlock gunner!
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So! The Errata dropped today! Clanrat Clawleader is officially 145 points (duh) Rat Ogor with Warpfire gun is officially 30 wounds (duh) Skaven can now officially take Skaven Mercenaries (among others!) so we can add a Clawlord or Gray Seer to our warbands if we want! No other big changes for Skaven that I could see, most of this seems to be exactly what we expected.
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And also, the guy on the bottom left card doesn't have any runemarks listed on the card!
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Interesting comparison between the Seraphon's "Nimble retreat" which requires the model to be within 1" of the enemy, and doesn't require a roll in order to get a bonus disengage and the Skaven "Scurry Away" which requires the model to be within 3", and requires a 4+ on the roll to get a bonus disengage. I think, overall, the Seraphon's version is "better", but the Skaven one can (if you're lucky) cover some edge cases, and allow more tactical movement.
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Like I said in my earlier post, if I had the models, the 13-rat Plague Monk unit is probably what I'd run. It's....very strong on paper. Also, it might be the cheapest warband possible. $35USD gets you 20 plague monks and you're done. Build 12 with staves, add the leader, and you still have 7 more models to fill out all the special attachments and run them as a legitimate unit in regular AoS games as well.
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Actually, Stormfiends are on 60mm and are now usable in Warcry! Pusgoyle Blightlords might be in still.
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Hmmm, re-reading it a few more times I think you might be right. I've been thinking about the list composition, and I wonder if swapping a clanrat out for two giant rats might be a good idea, to play with the strength of numbers a bit. So something like Stormfiend -265 Clanrat Leader -145 2x Stormvermin - 105x2 4x Clanrat - 75x 4 2x Giant Rats - 35x2 Total is 990 points, and now I've got 10 models, so I can put 5 models in a single battle group if I want Shield- Leader, Stormverminx2, Clanrat x2 Dagger - Clanratx2, Giant Rat x2 Hammer - Stormfiend Of course, my other idea is ten Clanrats, the Stormvermin leader, and two Giant Rats so that I have 13 models as a joke, but I don't know if that is anything other than a meme. You could also just do 12 Plague Monks and the Plague Monk leader to get to 13 models, and that might be actually decent to be honest, plus this has the advantage of coming from one single box of models, as the Plague Monk kit gives you 20 models...I just don't have any plague monks...yet...
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I haven't had a chance to play yet, but the list I'm kicking around to start with looks like this (and running on the assumption that the Clanrat leader is indeed 145 points). Stormfiend with Warpfire Gun - 265 Clanrat leader -145 Stormvermin without shields x 2 -105 x2 = 210 Clanrat with Spear x5 - 75x5 = 375 I'm thinking of starting it with the Clanrat leader, the two Stormvermin and two Clanrats in the Shield, the three remaining Clanrats in the Dagger, and the Stormfiend in the hammer. I think this works, I've read the rules a bunch and cant seem to determine whether you round up or down for the rule about how you "can't have more than half the warband in a single battlegroup". I assume it's rounding up, like the rule about the requirements for the Shield, but I'm unsure. I have nine models total, so "half" is 4.5, and I'm assuming I round that up to 5. Ideally I'd keep my shield pretty clustered to make use of the great Quad ability, while clanrats run around and the Stormfiend hunts high toughness targets with the Warpfire Gun.
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Hmmm I see your point now about deployment. That is a bit annoying having to set it up in separate steps. Now I'm wondering how this works with something like the Iron Sky Squadron- it's a battalion so you can deploy them all at once... but if you have to deploy in stages.... is it one or three drops?
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What I want to know if is there a way to make an Iron Sky Squadron work at 1000pts. Two frigates and two arkanaut companies and the battalion tax is 800pts, leaving you with 200 remaining points. A navigator might be good, or two Endrinmasters to repair when embarked (even though this gets in the way of being able to fly sky high). Maybe a navigator and Endrinmaster?
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You're overthinking it. You deploy the boat into your territory. Then you can deploy models inside the boat, as it is in your territory and has the Garrison rule, which allows models to start the game in a garrison provided the garrison is in friendly territory and the models could otherwise be deployed wholly withing 6" of the model with the garrison rule.
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So, based on that, @TheadTheOgorSlayer, if I am taking 3x20 Clanrats in a "Skryre" list just so they eat charges for Ratling Guns, Warp Lightning Cannons, Acolytes, and Stormfiends with Ratling+Windlaunchers, it's not actually the worst thing that all of my Clanrats are built and painted with spears since I can cover more table space and still get attacks in on enemies? Am I reading that right?
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So, I've been playing this 1000pt list for a few weeks now, and it's surprisingly strong. Admittedly I've yet to win, but I attribute that to the fact that I'm typically facing an army that is a pretty hard counter to a lot of this list (Nighthaunt). I also don't have Gnawholes yet, since I'm determined not to buy anything until I finish painting my models, and those would help immensely with mobility. Grey Seer (120) - General - Trait: Master of Magic - Artefact: Staff of Rightful Supremacy - Lore of Ruin: Death Frenzy Warlock Engineer (100) - Lore of Warpvolt Galvanism: More-more-more Warp Power! Warlock Engineer (100) - Lore of Warpvolt Galvanism: More-more-more Warp Power! 3 x Stormfiends (260) 20 x Skryre Acolytes (240) Warp Lightning Cannon (180) The way this typically works is that the Grey Seer buffs the Stormfiends with Mystic Shield and Death Frenzy turn 1, and they act as an anvil while the Acolytes, Warp Lightning Cannon, and Engineers dish out damage and mortal wounds. In later turns the Stormfiends get Death Frenzy, and a unit they are locked in combat with gets Withered, to increase their survivability. I've also experimented with the Snoutgrovel robes, which can keep command points free to use for charge rolls, or getting an automatic 6" run on the Acolytes. Acolytes buffed with a warpstone spark and More-more-more Warp Power! are very dangerous. Hell, even if they don't get the spell, they can still do work. I'm pretty happy with it, but I have to play pretty intelligently. If my Acolytes get charged, it's pretty much over, so I have to work as hard as possible to distract my opponent with the Stormfiends. I typically run the fiends with a Ratling Gun, Warpfire Thrower, and Shock Gauntlets, but I'm considering switching the gun to Grinderfists- not to tunnel, but to do more damage in melee.
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So, something I've been thinking about for a list at 1000 points (and something that won't break my "no new models till I finish painting" rule) is below, what do you guys think? Allegiance: Skaventide Grey Seer (120) - General - Trait: Master of Magic - Artefact: Staff of Rightful Supremacy - Lore of Ruin: Warpgale Warlock Engineer (100) - Lore of Warpvolt Galvanism: More-more-more Warp Power! Warlock Engineer (100) - Lore of Warpvolt Galvanism: Chain Warp Lightning 20 x Skryre Acolytes (240) 3 x Stormfiends (260) Warp Lightning Cannon (180) 1000 points on the nose, and in theory there is a nice mix of buffing (More-more-more Warp Power! and Warpstone Sparks) and debuff/control spells (Wither + Warpgale from the Grey Seer, plus the Staff of Rightful Supremacy). The basic idea would be to split things into three "pods" so to speak- Grey Seer with the Stormfiends, so that I can debuff enemies who attack them with Wither and Warpgale, a Warlock Engineer to buff the Acolyte Blob, and the final Engineer to babysit the cannon and overcharge it if needed. I think this might be a decently effective list, but I'm sure I'm missing something. Planning on arming the Stormfiends with Ratling/Warpfire/Shock Gauntlets and throwing them at my opponent's "chaff", and treating the Stormfiends as sort of my Anvil while the Acolytes are the Hammer, since they can run and shoot after being buffed by the Warlock engineer using Sparks and Spells. The Grey Seer can also debuff enemy wizards with his staff within 13".
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@Skorp Sucks about the Plagueclaw. Honestly, I don't know what to do with Stormfiends. I am going to try and get some playtesting in with various builds this weekend if possible. If you haven't built them yet, then I'd definitely suggest just magnetizing them. They might be the easiest kits to magnetize in the history of Warhammer. I'd think that if you are keeping them near the bell, then you'd probably want Grinderfists/Warpfire/Shock Gauntlets to help clear up things that tackle the bell. Then again, I could also see an argument to be made for Ratling/Mortar/choice Stormfiends in this list, sitting back and shooting from near the cannons. Either way, I'm very curious about it, and the core structure of 2xFiends, Acolyte Blob, Bell, 2x Cannons, 2x Doomwheels seems...really solid, especially with the right spells on your Bell (probably Plague?). EDIT: And I do agree- Clanrats are better if your goal is to keep the Bell alive and mobile, which is what you usually want. But, what I love about this list is that the bell is a really nice 200 point distraction unit while the rest of the list focuses on blasting things apart. Hell, the Acolytes might even get to shoot a few times in this list, which is weird!
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@Skorp the more I think about it, the more I kind of love your list idea. Screaming Bell 20 Acolytes, 2x3 Fiends 2x WLC 2x Doomwheels 2x Engineers is right at 1840 points, and with Gnawholes out on the board I'd think about taking Chronomantic Cogs and Warp Lightning Vortex. Acolytes push the Bell into the fray, Doomwheels clean off objectives, Engineers can each buff a cannon to overcharge it, Stormfiends do their thing. Use the bell as a distraction piece while everything else does work. Might tuck this away for when I finish painting my force and itch to convert a Screaming Bell
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Huh. Hadn't thought about that though. If you turn the plagueclaw into a warp lightning cannon (they're the same kit), 2x Carrion Empire half + 1 SC! Pestilens is not a bad way to make a Skryre force if you don't mind converting plague monks.... Wouldn't even be the worst list: technically I think Stormfiends can even push the Bell... Edit: Well, at least having the Stormfiends near would help ensure you keep the "10 models" rule to allow the bell to move.
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The more I'm thinking about it, the more I'm coming around to the idea of "Mixed Skryre". I just don't like having to buy and paint more filler units. I'm really interested in Stormvermin, but I don't want to take a huge block of them, and am not sure whether a unit of 10 Stormvermin is better filler than a unit of 10 Acolytes (which I already have). The Stormvermin are obviously more survivable, but a unit of 10 will only get the bonus for a short time. Still, they are 5+ and not 6+. Moreover 10 Stormvermin (I think?) put out more wounds than a unit of Acolytes before you consider buffs for either units. I guess my real questions are here: How do we feel (like I asked earlier) about minimum size units of Clanrats and Stormvermin, and how do we feel about those in comparison to Acolytes for a list that is heavily Clan Skryre? What I'm wondering is something like... 2x20 or 3x20 Clanrats as battleline instead of some combination of Stormfiends and Acolytes Or something like, 40 Clanrats, 2x10 Stormvermin instead of Stormfiends and Acolytes Basically, if I'm taking small units primarily to screen Cannons, Stormfiends, and Weapons Teams, and don't want to drop 40-strong blobs of clanrats, how do we rate 20 Clanrats vs 10 Stormvermin vs 10 Acolytes?
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I've been thinking about it, and trying to balance minimal investment for maximum reward for Skryre specifically.... How do we feel about 2x20 Clanrats and 1x10 Stormvermin? Will Stormvermin be a waste at 10? It's 20 points more than 3x20 Clanrats, but they have slightly better threat and survivability at the cost of fewer overall wounds on the table.
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I think the thing is, I ultimately agree with you. For Skryre, bolstering with a blob of acolytes and stormfiends, 3x20 clanrats will do work for just 360 points. They are just enough of an annoyance that you can't reasonably ignore them, and they should be enough of a speed bump that your stronger units can do their work. But, I'm annoyed about the fact that this build comp (or more of an investment in Skaventide battleline) is necessary to get ANY clanrats. Previously, we could even pull this off with allies points while playing pure Skryre since 3x20 fits in under the 400pt ally limit. I've even done it a few times, and it works well! However, I found more use out of 1x40 Clanrats + 1x3 Stormfiends + 2x10 Acolytes and was hoping to be able to replicate this build with the new Battletome, which seems to be impossible. More importantly, the way the preview article was written (and indeed, the way the allegiance abilities function!) seemed to be setting us up for Battleline choices conditional on our general. Now, maybe this is too strong, in some cases. I could see that. But to prevent even allying in other clans seems really stupid, from both a fluff and crunch reason. Now, if it turns out we can spend our ally points on other clans, then I'm satisfied. Come to think of it, who CAN Skaventide even ally with? Does anyone know?
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"I want to use Clanrats as battleline for Skryre!" I said, naively. The monkey's paw curled and here we are. It is just bonkers to me- every other faction that has the ability to unlock conditional battleline choices within the faction locks it to your general....but still lets the default battleline apply, so you can mix and match. All I want is a unit of 40 clanrats, and two units of stormfiends to be my battleline choices. Why this is impossible is beyond me. It makes sense in terms of fluff, and it wouldn't be any more overpowered than other armies. Hell, this is literally how the Legions allegiances work in the Nagash book.
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More-more warp power from the Skryre spell lores lets you reroll hits and wounds at the cost of d3 mortals. The gascloud battalion lets you reroll hits of 1. I'm curious about this as well, I have 20 acolytes that I'd like to push as far as I can. Running and shooting is actually nice, since the few times I've actually gotten them in range to use the guns, they work surprisingly well even without buffs. How do we make acolytes great???
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Warpseer is Masterclan, as is a Screaming Bell though, and I was interested in both of those specifically for my Skryre army. The Warpseer more than the bell, but I wouldn't mind the Bell either. Edit: Lord Skreech, Warpseer, and Warpgnaw are all Masterclan. If they can be your general without breaking allegiance, that's something at least. Same with Thanquol.
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This makes me feel a bit better, since I'm pretty sure all Verminlords are "Masterclan", right? Also, seen it around, but is it true that you can always ally with "skaventide" models? If so, easy way to get a cheap clanrat screen without breaking Skryre, which is all I really want....
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Wait, does the Grey Seer not break Skryre allegiance???
