AoS 2 - Soulblight Discussion

[Joseph Mackay]

On 2/22/2021 at 5:08 AM, Siphon said:

This is what I’m worried about.  We will get new Blood,knights but instead of heavily armored baroque vampires on nightmare steeds, we will get half naked feral vampire growing out of giant blood worms that shoot psychic lasers from their mouth.  
 

I mean, that’d be pretty cool though 😂

[Honk]

8 hours ago, Joseph Mackay said:

Assuming they stay relatively the same size, $124nz ...

The prizetag should be relative to the points and amount needed to field them...

if they end up in a spot, where a good nice Bloodknight Unit has around 10 models and if you go full cavalry Legion of Horses bloodline with horselord general, so 20-30 models in 2k, like they are right now, the dawnrider Price is kinda the limit. Around 200 points for 5.

 

but with the wightking on steed, they might go varanguard style, or fulminator.

tricky spot, since the pricetag suddenly goes into centerpiece regions. 100pts/model at varanguard price seems okish max, if they are worth it on the table to field max of 9 in 2k

[Raptor_Jesues]

A 5x200 points blood knights would be perfect if supported by some good rules from the book.  This opens up the usual debate on blood knights and black knights filling the same-ish role of shock cavalry but i really would not mind having both

[Thamalys]

2 hours ago, Raptor_Jesues said:

A 5x200 points blood knights would be perfect if supported by some good rules from the book.  This opens up the usual debate on blood knights and black knights filling the same-ish role of shock cavalry but i really would not mind having both

I’d agree, but I’d also argue that it would be great to differentiate their purpose to a much greater extent. Blood Knights are on the table to get the charge, kill things, and hopefully take a counter offence. Black knights... at the moment, they are just a toned down version of Blood Knights. What I would like to see it’s new lore for them and thus a new warscroll that makes them unique. Not more or less powerful than Blood Knights, but unique enough to be taken in a list to fulfill a specific role.

[lare2]

Blood Knights are no longer available online. Looks like a definite cut as otherwise it would say temporarily unavailable. Seems a bit premature...

Edited February 24, 2021 by lare2

[Causalis]

Hey guys! I'm expanding my undead forces and have a few questions to some units that I want to try out.

Can you give me advice on Mannfred and Neferata? Are they best used in Grand Host or in their respective legions?

I also want to try out a Coven Throne. How do you use it?

[Honk]

9 hours ago, Causalis said:

How do you use it?

They are both kinda weak and then tricky to use, wherever.
Mannfreds Aura is pretty cool on bloodknights or Morghast, what Legion is not really a thing (host/night/soulblight) same goes for Neffi... her aura might cripple your opponent for one round, two if he’s hitting on 4+ (Host/blood/soulblight)
 

thinking about it, Manni depends on the list YOU‘re bringing, while Neffi is useful against certain opponents...

 

I really like the coven throne as discount mortarch. The spell is great to negate one unit, but tricky to use with the short range. up to 12“ in your hero phase is not really happening except for slow hordes. But hoping to charm scarbrand mid-charge, really tricky.

and the CA can really boost a unit. Morghast, knights or graveguard  and also the added save... aaaand more wounds than a mortarch 😅

[Causalis]

Ok, thanks for the input! How does Mannfred perform for you in combat? He seems to be decent (not really worth his 340p to be honest but not terrible either). Any recommendations on units that synergise well with him? Morghasts are obvious. Maybe Black Knights or Vargheists? He needs something to keep up with him or else he will just get run over if he charges into combat alone.

Another question: If I take Legion of Night and Mannfred, does he still HAVE to be the general? And if I take him in Grand Host I can freely choose the general, correct?

[Honk]

In Legion of Night Manni is always the general, in grand host he can be the sidekick.

As to his battlefield performance, I only fielded him once, in a swift death Soulblight. He stood behind my bloodknights carefully piling in, racing around wreaking havoc.

That went very well...

blackknights could guard him better, with bigger units, four morghast could also dish out nicely. And if you play LoNight with graveguard as bait, the CA could work wonders... 

i think for casual friendly games he can be a nice asset. Shooting meta is bad of course, but well whatever there is always something 

[Raptor_Jesues]

14 hours ago, Causalis said:

Ok, thanks for the input! How does Mannfred perform for you in combat? He seems to be decent (not really worth his 340p to be honest but not terrible either). Any recommendations on units that synergise well with him? Morghasts are obvious. Maybe Black Knights or Vargheists? He needs something to keep up with him or else he will just get run over if he charges into combat alone.

Another question: If I take Legion of Night and Mannfred, does he still HAVE to be the general? And if I take him in Grand Host I can freely choose the general, correct?

Mannfred is a very big based assassin. He can absolutely ruin the day of squishy models or units (expecially if he manages to cast something to get his buff on) and his casting and support abilities are very good too in the right armies. Alas he is very easy to kill for his point cost so keep that in mind. 
Any army that sports a good number of units hitting and wounding on 3+ is a perfect fit for him so mass morghast in grand host, blood kights spam in soulblight and the such will be amazing for him. JUST BEWARE SHOOTING. He will die super quickly if he gets focussed by artillery and the such. 
yes, he has to be the general in LoN wich is quite a bummer. In grand host he does not have to be, so it could be the better idea, there are some very good traits there.

[Causalis]

2 hours ago, Raptor_Jesues said:

He can absolutely ruin the day of squishy models or units

To be fair, "can kill squishy units" shouldn't be a strength but absolutely mandatory for a 340p model.  

I'm aware of the danger shooting poses. But to be honest that's not an intrinsic weakness of Manni. EVERY UNIT in the game is weak to shooting and heroes without look-out-sir doubly so. 

I'll try Manni in a few games and report my results here. I'll probably run him up the board with a unit of 6 Vargheists to take advantage of his CA. 

[El Syf]

I've always found him surprisingly good; I run a very dodgy grand host list (see below) with him and Vhodrai in. Always good fun if not consistent wins!

Allegiance: Grand Host of Nagash

Leaders
Vampire Lord (140)
- General
- Mount: Flying Horror
- Command Trait: Aura of Ages
- Artefact: Deathforged Chain
- Lore of the Vampires: Amaranthine Orb
Lord Executioner (80)
Knight of Shrouds on Ethereal Steed (120)
Mannfred Mortarch of Night (340)
- Lore of the Dead: Overwhelming Dread
Prince Vhordrai (460)
- Lore of the Vampires: Vile Transference

Battleline
5 x Dire Wolves (70)
5 x Dire Wolves (70)
20 x Chainrasp Horde (160)

Units
2 x Morghast Archai (190)
- Spirit Halberds
5 x Hexwraiths (130)
6 x Spirit Hosts (240)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 121
 

[Sception]

Every unit is weak to shooting, but Manni (and Nef, and Arkhan) are disproportionately so due to their low wound count relative to their points cost when compared to other similar large monsters, and their special character status which prevents them from selecting defensive artifacts that could otherwise mitigate that weakness.  Since the very dawn of AoS, before there even were points, the rules for the end times mortarchs have been written in a way that suggests the writers greatly overvalue their ability to heal a couple wounds at the end of combat phases where they kill models.  It seems like the designers expect you to get roughly six extra wounds out of the ability per game.  The truth is, these models tend to skip straight from full health to dead with no time to heal in between, ~especially~ when you throw them into melee.  Arkhan has even more healing than that now, as he can invocation himself in OBR, and other OBR healing can restore even more wounds, and it still doesn't matter much.  Mortarchs could automatically go back to full health every hero phase and at 11 wounds with 4+ armor and no layered wards they'll could still be considered 'fragile'.

There is a solid option to help with this right now.  The White Dwarf from December 2019 had extra nighthaunt formations for 'the Emerald Host', including once formation consisting of just two units of hexwraiths that lets the ghostly cavalry tank wounds for death heroes.  The formation's cheap enough to fit in your ally pool in standard 2000 point games, and lets you take a flying bodyguard fast enough to keep pace with your mortarch that can dramatically improve their survivability, which in turn makes their self healing abilities much better.  The hexwraiths become allied units and thus don't benefit from faction abilities or death saves, but it's still worth it.  Granted, it adds enough cost to your already expensive mortarchs that you might almost start eyeing Nagash instead at that point, but if you want to field a mortarch in Legions of Nagash and don't want them to drop in the first enemy shooting phase, then it's certainly an option to consider.

Unfortunately, we're probably a matter of months away from 3rd edition AoS, and I don't personally expect 2nd edition White Dwarf battalions to carry forward, so it may be a very short lived solution.

[Honk]

30 minutes ago, Sception said:

it adds enough cost to your already expensive mortarchs that you might almost start eyeing Nagash instead at that point,

Not to mention the footprint of a mortarch with 10 hexwraith surrounding him ...

[Raptor_Jesues]

4 hours ago, Honk said:

Not to mention the footprint of a mortarch with 10 hexwraith surrounding him ...

this, 100%. I hope that if soulblight gets a new mortarch (say vlad or abhorash) he will come either in a cavalry or standard hero base. I would hate to see them on yet another huge monster, even though a diorama like hero could be fun.

[Sception]

Eh, 10 hexwraiths isn't necessarily that huge.  And you can string them out some.  And large footprint can be used to your advantage in some circumstances.

[EMMachine]

Hi, in the rumours engine this Conversion of Sigvald was shown.

21 hours ago, Kaleb Daark said:

But back on the Vampire hypetrain...

is this not the mose amazeballs conversion..

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/02/26/we-gave-sigvald-to-6-top-tier-painters-and-the-results-are-magnificent/

Here is the video as well how the model was converted.

 

[Honk]

8 hours ago, EMMachine said:

this Conversion of Sigvald was shown.

Pleeeaaaseeee Abhorash, pleeeaaaseee

 

(or Someone similar...)

[Lich King]

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/03/01/vampire-rat-style-icon-its-kritza-the-rat-prince/?utm_source=Warhammer Community&utm_medium=Banner&utm_campaign=NewModelMondays01032021&utm_content=NewModelMondays01032021
 Not feeling this one - would be better without rats. Any takers ?

[El Syf]

Yeah the rat thing is a bit too close to those warpstone snorting weirdos. Get rid of all the rats and I love it lolz. In the article they say one of his powers is to transform into a rat swarm; I'd be very happy to see a return of Vampiric Powers...

[JackStreicher]

The vamp is okay but I don‘t feel him. I e Vanp/char with an animal-head fur is enough (yet we have three so far)

[Souleater]

Interesting sculpt but not my cup of tea.

 

Cool to see some varied takes on the Vampire Lord theme, though. Something for everyone. 

[Sception]

I love it.  Like, seriously, we've now seen several cool new vampire lords previewed from GW in a number of dramatically different styles, and this guy might be my absolute favorite of the bunch so far.

Rats are right in there with bats and wolves as creatures of the night classically associated with vampires, and we've already seen undead rat swarms in the new Cursed City stuff.  If I had to guess, I'd say he's more likely an expansion to that game than a new special character for Soulblight Gravelords directly, though either way he'll get AoS playable rules so that's really neither here nor there.

Imo, apart from the model just being fabulous in its own right imo, the interesting bit is this:

Quote

This well-dressed fellow hails from the Vyrgos Dynasty of Soulblight Vampires. As you can probably tell from his fancy attire, Kritza was once counted among the nobility of Ulfenkarn (which you can read about in our first Cursed City crier). Unfortunately, his attempts to secretly undermine the lord of the land led him to an ill fate, and he was horribly mauled by Radukar the Wolf.

Vyrgos Dynasty, eh?  To me, that sounds like we will indeed be seeing bloodlines - now apparently called 'Dynasties' - in the new Soulblight book, but new ones, not the same as the oldhammer bloodlines.  At the same time, though, I personally expected the only named dynasties to be inherited from the three big named vampire special characters in the current Legions of Nagash book - Nef, Manny, and Vhordrai - and 'Vyrgos' doesn't sound like any of those, so that's interesting.  Radukar would then presumably be from the same 'dynasty'.  Unfortunately we can't draw too much insight into what the Vyrgos are about generally from this guy, since his specific rat gimmick seems to derive more from the nature of his transformation rather than something he inherited from his vampyric progeniter. 

Edited March 1, 2021 by Sception

[Honk]

Holy eff, roll me in glitter and I’ll run butt naked through the streets...

that dude looks rad (t)!!!

i can understand all the inner turmoil and skepticism towards the emerging „dynasties“ and the continuation of the less baroque and more progressive (castlevania) style. 
 

🤔 he has a bit of 40k army general 😂

[lare2]

Yep, I'm a big fan. So far, for me, the only vamp that hasn't floated my boat is the surfing guy who was leaked. Everything else is proving to be outstanding.