AoS 2 - Maggotkin of Nurgle Discussion

[Zplash]

Quick question about our new diseased rule. 

Within 3 of any maggotkin unit. 

So if I am with 2 units within 3 to an enemy unit, does it get 1 disease token from each unit or always only 1 not mattering how many nurgle units are around? 

Im curious about the wording "any" in the battle trait. 

And than there is a command trait or artifcat where it states that the bearer counts as 2 units for the diseased battle trait? So out of this I would assume each unit give 1 token? 

Thanks for clarification. 

[Dracan]

Urgh... ouch...

Going to be a totally different looking army going forward, that also plays totally different than it currently does.


Must admit at first glance, I am bit concerned that it might be a bit of a lemon... Hopefully I will be wrong, but if your  whole shtick is army wide 5++ with movement 4" and an allegiance ability that is having to do booking keeping for 6es to hit with max of 7 per unit per tun (never mind the resetting afterwards) then having to roll 4+ to do a mw... yeah hey not great...

[Rotbinger]

14 minutes ago, Dracan said:

Urgh... ouch...

Going to be a totally different looking army going forward, that also plays totally different than it currently does.


Must admit at first glance, I am bit concerned that it might be a bit of a lemon... Hopefully I will be wrong, but if your  whole shtick is army wide 5++ with movement 4" and an allegiance ability that is having to do booking keeping for 6es to hit with max of 7 per unit per tun (never mind the resetting afterwards) then having to roll 4+ to do a mw... yeah hey not great...

You probably just feel like that because of old rule hangover. Even though I've read very little in regards to what's coming for MoN, I think we'll be in for a treat. 😎

Having played Nurgle since the start of 2nd ed. AoS myself, I'm pretty excited to see how the new rules shake things up. They felt very one dimensional for quite a long time in my opinion - at least compared to other armies I've played with. 

[spenson]

To be honest I now like all three of the kits in the box of Bloab, Orghotts and Morbidex. Especially Orghott. They suffered from the lack of MW protection but now they seem good.

With Bloab's spell you can deal damage during the hero phase (spells), shooting phase, charge phase (rampage), combat phase and battleshock phase (disease). That's a lot of potential MW. And it lasts until your next hero phase.

Edited December 11, 2021 by spenson

[Nurglete]

This new book seems very frustrating and boring to play with.

Disease points are much weaker than other mechanics that simply inflict mortal wounds. Point per point our troops are weaker and leds killy than with the previous book and now they lack mobility ... I don't know how we are going to capture markers moving 4.

They have removed many interesting rules from warscrolls and have given  rules that do not contribute much.
I don't know, I know I don't sound very optimistic, I hope I'm wrong, but it doesn't look good at all.

 

Edited December 11, 2021 by Nurglete
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[Neil Arthur Hotep]

Currently, at first blush I think I will be trying an alpha pin list.

Drowed Men allegiance.

Get a significant amount of Pusgoyle Blightlords and a big unit of Blightkings with Lord of Blights support.

Use the pre game move to get the Blightlords into the opponent turn 1 and pin them in for a few turns. Use this time to get your Blightkings on an important objective and hopefully hold it for the whole game.

By being on both halves of the table you should be able to get a unit of Plaguebearers summoned turn 2 for added objective pressure.

The entry fee seems to be about 1000 points. I'd probably add a Maggoth Lord to give the list some punch next and maybe a Great Unclean One to help compete in the magic phase. Probably some more bodies after that. This list should be able to go to 1 or 2 drops no problem.

There are a few good synergies available. Blightlords in the opponent's deployment zone early should start spreading disease quickly. If you bring a Lord of Afflictions, you can give him the artefact that turns off command abilities, too, which should make the pin harder to break. Once the GUO or Maggoth Lord gets close enough, your units start benefitting from from the Locus of Fecundity, as well, adding healing into the mix.

[Archibald]

I love the new book.

Had my first game today, using all the information i got from the reviews.

Two wounds (possibly 3 wounds) on Plaguebearer Host is f***ing awesome. The hold so much ground.

Diseae rule was very thematic and so much fun, especially with the Witherstaff (+1 to disease roll) and the wheel also on +1 to disease roll. Often hab 5-7 disease points on a unit.
 

Plaguedrones seem nessessary for the movement. And their shootinh attack is very nice.

[Dracan]

Probably going to try this first, just feels so small
Would love another wizard and 5 more kings.

Super glad the maggoth lords are all good enough to consider now, wish bloab was a 2 cast though.

Edited December 11, 2021 by Dracan

[spenson]

I thought the plaguebearers lost the -1 to hit against missile weapons but they actually lost it against melee weapons, which is a bigger nerf.

[Aphotic]

35 minutes ago, spenson said:

I thought the plaguebearers lost the -1 to hit against missile weapons but they actually lost it against melee weapons, which is a bigger nerf.

Yeah it's problematic. Honestly the problem for this tome is the 2.0 tomes. Power level in 2.0 was much much higher. But I struggle thinking like that because of just how universally strong the sce scrolls are.

I do alot of tournament play so for me this will be a tough nut to crack. I think orghotts is an absolute auto include.

Blight kings honestly are about 50 points overcosted. They lack the rend to get through tough stuff that they need to get through. We don't really have a hammer unit outside orghotts or morbidex.

[Grimrock]

For those worried about it I'd definitely say try a few games out. I agree a lot of models seem a little lackluster at the moment, but there are some absolute gems and there are waaay too many rules to wrap your head around just at face value. The new wheel, disease counters, new artifacts, traits, constant healing, etc. etc... it's just bonkers. Try your best to just take a fresh look at the army from the top down rather than trying to think of what's changed. For example you could get hung up on how the combat potential of plague drones has basically disappeared (no bonus for being near heros, don't benefit from the scrivener, no more GUO command ability), but then miss the fact that 3 models can put out 21 shots at a 3+/3+ doing a ton of damage and setting up a bunch of disease counters that then combo with the witherstave on a GUO. Not to mention the fact that 8" is absolutely clutch for the army since everything is so darn slow now. I'm really looking forward to playing it and seeing how it all comes together. 

One thing that's sticking in my brain is summoning armies might have a pretty solid chance now. A GUO with bell, befouling host for an extra tree, horticulus for an extra tree, nurglings dropping in for more points, and I think there were artifacts and traits to buff it a bit more if needed. Take some beasts for 'cheap' battleline and buffs with horticulous... honestly it sounds pretty neat. Not having any good way to lean into summoning was one of my big complaints in the last book so it's nice to see that change. My only real sadness is I don't think the glottkin are worth the 700 points. They're good, but 700 points is a real steep price point for their current use. I'll try them out but i'm not holding out a lot of hope. 

Edit:
Here's a list I'm thinking of to push into summoning. Should generate 8 points in the first round and hopefully around 10 in each round after that, so you're getting a spoilpox/sloppity on turns 1/2 and then some extra bearers or drones or whatever on later turns. Running in befouling host of course:

GUO
- blade and bell
- witherstave, trait for -1 to hit, stream of corruption for the spell
Horticulous

4x individual Beasts of Nurgle
20 Plaguebearers
20 Plaguebearers
3 Plague drones

Edited December 11, 2021 by Grimrock

[hurben]

12 minutes ago, Grimrock said:

For those worried about it I'd definitely say try a few games out. I agree a lot of models seem a little lackluster at the moment, but there are some absolute gems and there are waaay too many rules to wrap your head around just at face value. The new wheel, disease counters, new artifacts, traits, constant healing, etc. etc... it's just bonkers. Try your best to just take a fresh look at the army from the top down rather than trying to think of what's changed. For example you could get hung up on how the combat potential of plague drones has basically disappeared (no bonus for being near heros, don't benefit from the scrivener, no more GUO command ability), but then miss the fact that 3 models can put out 21 shots at a 3+/3+ doing a ton of damage and setting up a bunch of disease counters that then combo with the witherstave on a GUO. Not to mention the fact that 8" is absolutely clutch for the army since everything is so darn slow now. I'm really looking forward to playing it and seeing how it all comes together. 

One thing that's sticking in my brain is summoning armies might have a pretty solid chance now. A GUO with bell, befouling host for an extra tree, horticulus for an extra tree, nurglings dropping in for more points, and I think there were artifacts and traits to buff it a bit more if needed. Take some beasts for 'cheap' battleline and buffs with horticulous... honestly it sounds pretty neat. Not having any good way to lean into summoning was one of my big complaints in the last book so it's nice to see that change. My only real sadness is I don't think the glottkin are worth the 700 points. They're good, but 700 points is a real steep price point for their current use. I'll try them out but i'm not holding out a lot of hope. 

Funny because I was really agree with you till I read about the glottkin. 
To my mind, he's the must have in a list. You can imagine it with everything but his ability is game breaker. To be able to charge at the end of the opponent phase with a potential redeploy that's a big big +. That's why I was agree till I read about the Glott' because you're arguing about "try and you guys will see" and you def apply this suggestion to the glottkin. I'm 100% sure he's a massive change for Nurgle.

[Envyus]

Goonhammer review 

https://www.goonhammer.com/battletome-maggotkin-of-nurgle-the-goonhammer-review/

 

Overall I think the army is better then it used to be, but very different style. 

[acr0ssth3p0nd]

I've been amassing a small Slaves to Darkness mortals force, with a Nurgle theme. What overlap is present between my STD Chaos Warriors, Knights, and Marauders, and the new Maggotkin?

[Izotzuhure]

Are the Glotkin spell and the Daemon lore spell that give +1 Wound different? I assume they are cause having 30 Plaguebearers on 4 wounds would be too much. 

[Grimrock]

30 minutes ago, acr0ssth3p0nd said:

I've been amassing a small Slaves to Darkness mortals force, with a Nurgle theme. What overlap is present between my STD Chaos Warriors, Knights, and Marauders, and the new Maggotkin?

Not much unfortunately. Most of the rules in the new book are locked to Maggotkin of Nurgle as opposed to the current book which was primarily anything with Nurgle. You can still bring in slaves units with the mark of nurgle into a maggotkin army, but they don't really get a lot of synergy. It isn't nothing, there's random stuff like Festus can heal a friendly model d3, but that's about it. Also going the other way, Nurgle models will likely make shockingly bad allies. Their points all take them having permanent healing and a ward save into account, but you only get those when you're in allegiance. There's really nothing in this book worth allying over into other factions.

9 minutes ago, Izotzuhure said:

Are the Glotkin spell and the Daemon lore spell that give +1 Wound different? I assume they are cause having 30 Plaguebearers on 4 wounds would be too much. 

They are different yeah, the daemon lore spell can only target maggotkin daemons and the glottkin spell can only target maggotkin mortals. One interesting point though, I was thinking the glottkin spell was pretty useless since you can't target marauders with it anymore. However if you put it on blightkings it'll set them to 5 wounds and (I think anyway) make them count as 2 models on an objective. Not too shabby for a 6 to cast.

Edited December 11, 2021 by Grimrock

[Eldarain]

It's incredibly different but I like that there appear to be more themed options.

The drop in speed is severe. I think some otherwise strong lists will have a tough go against enemies who can block them in. We don't look to have the punch to fight through quick enough in infantry heavy builds.

I'm leaning towards speed and disease trait as our best bet.

Drowned Men:

Hold the Line

Inspired

GUO: -1 to hit, Witherstave, Poxes 

Twiceborn

2x 10 Plaguebearers 

Blightlords: Reinforced

Nurglings: Reinforced 

Nurglings: Reinforced 

Battle Regiment 

Wounds: 150

Drops: 2 

Points: 1975

Idea being get to the center as soon as possible and grind away. Auto 6 run the GUO for sure. Pre game move and Nurgling infiltration means you can get a lot of effective wounds up table quickly.

Nurglings seem amazing to me:

Volume of attacks for disease. Built in deployment flexibility and healing, 5++. All for 105 points per 12 wounds.

I'm surprised more people aren't excited for Twice born. Consistent damage output, Twice per round auto heals and can return Nurgling bases.

The list has a ton of wounds all 5++. Lots of auto healing, anyone near that GUO is getting steadily wrecked by Mortals from his monstrous rampage and enhanced disease resolution.

Excited to try the book out. 

Also: 

It's clear the Disease mechanic was changed during development.

Noxious Nexus is clearly meant to work with an old form of the trait.

What do you think Noxious Nexus will do when they completely rewrite it?

I'm thinking it will be changed to work like the Munificent Wanderers Trait for things near the hero.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 11, 2021 by Eldarain

[Afuriousgeorge]

Guo in legion of the first could be interesting with 15 attacks on the forefold blade but otherwise my legion list got obliterated by this battletome

[Afuriousgeorge]

Archaon doesn't work anymore and the only plus 1 to attack is from the scrivener or a 1 use command trait within  7". Rip to the awesome munificent wanderers. Definitely some cool stuff in there but those points are very restrictive and feels like someone was trying to sell mortals.

[Afuriousgeorge]

More a disease token accountant than a general at this point

[spenson]

This is the drowned men list I'd like to try:

lord of afflictions		210	leader
bloab		300	leader
orghotts		300	leader
pusgoyle	2	220	battleline
pusgoyle	2	220	battleline
putrid	5	250	battleline
putrid	5	250	battleline
putrid	5	250	battleline

The lord of afflictions would have the 4++ artefact and Overpowering stench as command trait (the one that prevents giving/receiving commands within 7"). It'll probably be a battle regiment in 2 drops so the flies can attempt to get an early objective at the middle if needed or try to prevent a shooting army from giving me first turn and hope that they get a double turn.

The army is also not that slow for Nurgle.

I'd need to replace Bloab with 2 smaller heroes if I want to take a warlord due to the lack of slots on non unique leaders.

Edited December 11, 2021 by spenson

[Voodoom]

What do you think about giving an Arcane Tome to a Lord of Afflictions and get him Rancid Visitations ?

The casting value is 6 so even for him it will be easy. It would eradicate big squads with ease.

Edited December 11, 2021 by Voodoom

[hurben]

1 minute ago, Voodoom said:

What do you think about giving an Arcane Tome to a Lord of Afflictions and get him Rancid Visitations ?

The casting value is 6 so even for him it will be easy. It would allow him to easily eradicate big squads.

Better to use it with the Glottkin. I would rather put him the rustfang artefact by my side.

[Voodoom]

1 minute ago, hurben said:

Better to use it with the Glottkin. I would rather put him the rustfang artefact by my side.

I should have added that I'm playing smaller scale battles currently (1000 points) so Glottkin is not an option for me, but yeah, on him it would be better.

[Jaskier]

It seems like a strong book to me, it's definitely something I'd be worried about matching up with if I'm playing a melee glass hammer army (which I've got a few of!)