AoS 2 - Disciples of Tzeentch Discussion

[Magnus The Blue]

3 minutes ago, Prometheo567 said:

Now that we are on a shopping spree, do you need a Tzeentch player should purchase the Beasts of Chaos and/or Slaves to Darkness battletomes? I mean if I intend to play as Allegiance:Tzeentch, of course. Any specific warscrolls or elegible lores that are only present there? Would you consider their Endless Spells (usable by tzaangor shamen and StD sorcerers I guess) to be usable?

Sorry if it is a stupid or already asked question.

You can't use the spells, artifacts, command traits etc. So the only rules you need (other than warscrolls from the app) are the Tzeentch Specific battalions. So I wouldn't bother unless you want the lore and painting guides.

[Sinfullyvannila]

8 minutes ago, Prometheo567 said:

Now that we are on a shopping spree, do you need a Tzeentch player should purchase the Beasts of Chaos and/or Slaves to Darkness battletomes? I mean if I intend to play as Allegiance:Tzeentch, of course. Any specific warscrolls or elegible lores that are only present there? Would you consider their Endless Spells (usable by tzaangor shamen and StD sorcerers I guess) to be usable?

Sorry if it is a stupid or already asked question.

It’s not necessary if you use the warscroll app.  And yes, the Taurus and the Darkfire Daemonrift are much better than anything out of our box.

[Forrix]

Anybody have a link to the new Tzaangor Warscroll?  I've got two boxes of them I want to build but I'm assuming it changed.

[Sinfullyvannila]

1 hour ago, GeneralZero said:

Question about Gaunt: is the one on disc a StD exclusive and the foot one a DoT exclusive? WtF did GW smoke? (Same wtf reaction for mutalith not being in the battletome!!! grrrrr)

It should not be exclusive as anything with the TZEENTCH keyword before the game(and incidentally  Marks of Chaos count as before the game) should be fair game. At least It DOES lack the ARCANITE keyword though.

15 Chaos Warrior make an excellent tarpit/objective holder. The problem is that right now we don’t know how their Chaos Runeshield interact with other weapons since you can now mix their weapon options. They are also expensive AF point wise.

I’m also going to be trying just the one Pinks from the Summoner. I used to just do two of them an a Gaunt for my staples, but other options seem comfortably worth the points now; an while I think they are still insanely good, they aren’t as strong as they used to be.

Edited January 6, 2020 by Sinfullyvannila

[AverageBoss]

29 minutes ago, GeneralZero said:

Mathematically, yes but in game: how to kill the pinks? you erase one pink, then allocate the wounds to the blue (summoned) before allocate the next wound to the pink?

Example: unit 10 pinks: take 4 wounds. Do I have to kill 4 pinks and replace them by 8 blues? Or can I kill one pink, then 2 blues then one flame?

In this case, one box of blues is enough. In contrary, one box is enough....often lol

Another example: the unit is now for example 6pinks+4blues and got 5 wounds? how is the wounds distribution?

Pinks always have to be removed first, then blues, then brims. Also, pinks are now down to a 6+/6+, so expect them to die in droves when focused on.

22 minutes ago, Prometheo567 said:

Now that we are on a shopping spree, do you need a Tzeentch player should purchase the Beasts of Chaos and/or Slaves to Darkness battletomes? I mean if I intend to play as Allegiance:Tzeentch, of course. Any specific warscrolls or elegible lores that are only present there? Would you consider their Endless Spells (usable by tzaangor shamen and StD sorcerers I guess) to be usable?

Sorry if it is a stupid or already asked question.

Out of BoC, you can make use of the Tzeentch battalion to bring over some BoC units (as it bestows the Tzeentch keyword to them). And with the Tzaangor Shaman and Bray Shaman, you can make use of the BoC endless spells.

With StD, anything that can be given a Mark of Tzeentch can be used freely. And any casters with the StD keyword (including both Gaunt Summoners), can make use of the StD endless spells.


Hmm, now that they can just have the Tzeentch keyword, I wonder how a unit of Varanguard would do in DoT as an alternative shock unit to Enlightened and the like.

[Sinfullyvannila]

8 minutes ago, AverageBoss said:

Hmm, now that they can just have the Tzeentch keyword, I wonder how a unit of Varanguard would do in DoT as an alternative shock unit to Enlightened and the like.

You really need the +1damage from Host of the Everchosen for them to shine.

 

9 minutes ago, AverageBoss said:

Bray Shaman, you can make use of the BoC endless spells.

Bray Shaman is an excellent choice for ally in a Tzaangor Heavy list, even without the benefits of allegiance abilities.

[Sinfullyvannila]

44 minutes ago, Forrix said:

Anybody have a link to the new Tzaangor Warscroll?  I've got two boxes of them I want to build but I'm assuming it changed.

You have to allocate wounds to the models with shields to benefit from the FnP again. No more just putting one shield in the unit.

I’d probably Suggest you just fill up on Savage Greatblades and Mutants and give the rest Shields. I usually only end up getting 2 of the normies into a combat with a 20+ blob anyway, since the specials are the priority.

Edited January 6, 2020 by Sinfullyvannila

[Paniere]

1 hour ago, AverageBoss said:

Pinks always have to be removed first, then blues, then brims

once pinks are all gone,  you can remove either blues or brims as you prefere

[MitGas]

4 hours ago, DaftSkunk said:

Another poster mentioned The Dark Artisan has a pretty high resolution battletome review. There you can read at 42:32 that the new version of Glean Magic doesn't deal any damage. It's: CV 3, 24" range, enemy wizard. Pick 1 Spell from that wizards warscroll, on 3+ the Curseling learns it.

So better than before (I think he had to beat the CV of the stolen spell to learn it?), but not a wizard sniper.

What I'd like to know is, whether "pick a spell from that wizards warscroll" means that you can't get the extra faction-lore spell that the wizard knows. It'd be weird if you couldn't but the way I read it, you can't?

Yeah, I've also watched that video, hence why I wonder that Glean Magic got listed here at CV 7 / D6 MW and all the other stuff...  (I'd love for Glean Magic to be like that though!)

[Dreadmund]

Fold Reality seems especially good on Horrors. Return slain Pink horrors, giving the unit another 5 wounds per model returned. Even with 6+/6+ saves, that tarpit is going to be a nightmare to shift for most armies. Battleshock immunity is going to be very important to Horror heavy lists going forward. Definitely worth keeping a command point handy.

[Gwendar]

2 hours ago, Magnus The Blue said:

I also think the Host Duplicitous is great for combat focused Tzeentch and really messes with some armies (Rats and Lizards especially).  

If you're referring to Skinks, keep in mind that they don't "retreat" with their ability. It's just a 'withdraw' done in the combat phase when they're picked to attack.


So, I have some stuff on order today (potentially).. figure I'll build heavy into the Flamer shooting for now (and that list is a lot easier to paint with all the Daemons... I need to finish my OBR 😅) but eventually I want to look at a Summoners Guild list that's more built for combat\magic by working with my previous list posted.. maybe with Enlightened? I hadn't even thought of using StD units but I'm not really seeing anything pulling me towards using them aside from the endless spells; I'd rather have 50 wounds worth of Horrors for 200 points than 20 wounds worth of Chaos Warriors for the same price.. and I get a spellcast, shooting, etc from the Horrors as well.

[AverageBoss]

2 minutes ago, Gwendar said:

If you're referring to Skinks, keep in mind that they don't "retreat" with their ability. It's just a 'withdraw' done in the combat phase when they're picked to attack.


So, I have some stuff on order today (potentially).. figure I'll build heavy into the Flamer shooting for now (and that list is a lot easier to paint with all the Daemons... I need to finish my OBR 😅) but eventually I want to look at a Summoners Guild list that's more built for combat\magic by working with my previous list posted.. maybe with Enlightened? I hadn't even thought of using StD units but I'm not really seeing anything pulling me towards using them aside from the endless spells; I'd rather have 50 wounds worth of Horrors for 200 points than 20 wounds worth of Chaos Warriors for the same price.. and I get a spellcast, shooting, etc from the Horrors as well.

However those 20 wounds are at a 4+ vs. the 50 at 6+. And the horrors stop casting after 2 wounds. Just something to keep in mind.

[Gwendar]

12 minutes ago, AverageBoss said:

However those 20 wounds are at a 4+ vs. the 50 at 6+. And the horrors stop casting after 2 wounds. Just something to keep in mind.

I mean yeah.. you're right. In my mind I just don't that's a valuable tradeoff. The 10 Warriors would have a 5+ MW save, but the Horrors still have their 6+ W\MW save on top of 30 more wounds.. I see the spellcast as a nice bonus just for a fate point but not something I'm upset about losing when it happens.

[AverageBoss]

If I am doing my math right, Warriors are more durable per point against rend 0 and mortal wounds. But Horrors are more durable per point against rend -1 and up. Though you lose that 6++ after the first 10 wounds, so thats a bit harder to calculate just in my head. I might get on this later if someone else does not beat me to it. Curious now.

[Gwendar]

True.. it is only for the Pinks, but I still find some justification there. But yeah, I'm not in on math so I'll wait for someone else to properly calculate the average of that comparison 😉

I don't have any issue throwing in Chaos Warriors as I love them aesthetically.. but I need to see the calculated difference first.

[MitGas]

Does anyone have the tauralon kit? Would it be too big enough for a manticore? Cause I think it could serve as the base of a nice Tzeentch conversion...:)

[Paniere]

not doing the math for pinks vs std because it s a no brainer to me. pinks can benefit from fold reality , 1s on BSs and locus of change making them more durable 

[AverageBoss]

But then you have to figure in the support cost of the other units you a bringing with them. And you can do just as much shenanigans with supported Warriors (3+ save warriors with the agenda seems tasty). Fold reality is an amazing trick when it works, but I have long ago learned not to rely on it (too many dispel tricks, risk of rolling ones, and things that will auto wipe your whole 50 wounds).

 

[Satyrical Sophist]

What's the condition for +1 saves? Chaos Warriors with 3+ RR and mortal wound protection seems good.

[AverageBoss]

6 minutes ago, Satyrical Sophist said:

What's the condition for +1 saves? Chaos Warriors with 3+ RR and mortal wound protection seems good.

Kill a hero or monster with a wounds characteristic of 9 or more. Does not need to be all at once, just the finishing blow. Most of the other benefit them pretty well too. +1 attacks, +1 to hit in melee, counting a double models for objectives.

[AverageBoss]

Oh, and looks like the warscrolls are finally up.

[AverageBoss]

So Flamers are buffed by the Exalted Flamer keyword, which the Burning Chariot also has. Though I think +5 move, +2 wounds, super lackluster melee, and a MUCH larger and harder to place/hide profile is nowhere near worth the extra 50 points.

[Sinfullyvannila]

3 hours ago, Dreadmund said:

Fold Reality seems especially good on Horrors. Return slain Pink horrors, giving the unit another 5 wounds per model returned. Even with 6+/6+ saves, that tarpit is going to be a nightmare to shift for most armies. Battleshock immunity is going to be very important to Horror heavy lists going forward. Definitely worth keeping a command point handy.

I wouldn’t use it on Horrors. You don’t get the fate points for when you accidentally yeet your own unit anymore. Now when you roll a 1 it just does your opponents work for you.

Do Lifeswarm instead IMO.

[Grotruk]

Hey ! Didn't see the new Fatemaster ability command. Could be nice !

[hvadgoerjegher]

All Discs now have the same profile. That's some welcome streamlining and a nice little upgrade for The Blue Scribes, Fatemaster and Herald on Disc.