AoS 2 - Disciples of Tzeentch Discussion

[Cambot1231]

Is it possible to summon a herald on Foot + blue horrors at the end of your movement phase if you have the points for both? Is there any cap other than the amount of summon points you have on a turn basis? Could I summon in two units of blue or brimstones?

[Frowny]

I do think furies will have a role in future slaves armies as fast mobile screens with lots of possibilities. Skinks are very strong in order, and these have similar tactical abilities in Chaos. More expensive, not faster, but slightly sturdier, notably killier and much faster.

 

I think they are stronger in Khorne or nurgle though, which lacks this kind of thing, as oppposed to tzeentch which already has endless screens and doesn't have many good combat units. Retreat from combat is great when you have multiple important fights. Against tzeentch they can mostly just pick the unit fighting the furies first. Everything else is mostly just chaff in melee: nothing but Enlightened are worth targeting first, and they already have an ability that makes you want to do that. I think its best when you have multiple strong melee units, since it then means if they target the furies, they loose something in exchange. 

[Curzex]

8 hours ago, umlaut31 said:

Hi everyone, I've been playing AoS on and off for a few years now and really keen to start a Tzeentch army as my next project. The prospect of high movement and a big magic phase + some really cool models is something I'm very keen to try (after playing Khorne and Beastclaw in the past). I'm doing quite a bit of theoryhammer at the moment as I  have only managed a few smaller games with proxy models, but I'd love some feedback on my list below as a starter for 10.

I'm not looking for a top tier army but my local meta is quite competitive (or at least, a few trick lists with either lots of shooting, lots of monsters/dragons etc) so I'm trying to come up with something to work towards that can hopefully handle a few different threats and  give me some different options for each game before I buy any models! Not sure how competitive the Skyshoal batallion is, but I love the Skyfire/Enlightened models and thought the lower drop, extra move and CP + artefact would come in handy (as well as the rule of cool obviously)!

Allegiance: Tzeentch
Mortal Realm: Ghur

Lord of Change (380)
 - Gryph-Feather Charm
 - Tzeentch's Firestorm

Gaunt Summoner (160) - General
 - Arcane Sacrifice
 - Treacherous Bond

Tzaangor Shaman (160)
 - Windshief Charm
 - Fold Reality

10 x Pink Horrors (180)
Bolt of Tzeentch

10 x Pink Horrors (180)
Treason of Tzeentch

5 x Chaos Warriors (90)
Hand weapon & Shield

Battalion - Skyshoal Coven (130)
3 x Tzaangor Skyfires (200)
3 x Tzaangor Skyfires (200)
6 x Tzaangor Enlightened on Discs (320)

Total - 2000pts

 

I guess my thinking with the list was to move the Lord of Change up with a unit of Pinks, and keep the Gaunt bonded with the Chaos warriors (to offer the gaunt a bit more protection with Look out Sir and 2+ shrug onto a 10 wound unit) whilst he uses arcane sacrifice on the other unit of Pinks to generate fate points. Tzaangor shaman to support enlightened with buffs on those crucial charges and skyfires to offer ranged support/kill off enemy characters, as well as the shaman being able to fold reality when things get difficult or windshief charm + summoning for late game board control. All being well it's 7 (8 with the potion) spells a turn (hopefully realistic with Gaunt  re-rolls from arcane sacrifice and the LoC command ability affecting all wizards in my list) so should be a fair amount of fate points for summoning as needed, and I have a few high damage spells that hopefully will be in range early on in the game.

Open to any suggestions or changes, and if I have missed anything obvious please let me know! I wasn't sure if I should swap one unit of pinks for some Tzaangors (but how effective are they in units of 10?), and then maybe flesh this unit out a bit by dropping the batallion (and one unit of skyfires) and getting more battleline bodies. Also thought about popping the Gaunt on a balewind but not sure if losing mobility for the rest of the game could make things difficult. Does anyone have any experience of similar lists or aspects from this list?

Thanks in advance! 😊

 

 

Is a good list i prefer Ethereal amulet on LoC but is Okay.

Allegiance: Tzeentch
Gaunt Summoner (160)
Lord of Change (380)
Tzaangor Shaman (160)
10 x Pink Horrors of Tzeentch (180)
10 x Pink Horrors of Tzeentch (180)
10 x Kairic Acolytes (80)
6 x Tzaangor Enlightened on Disc(320)
6 x Raptoryx (90)
- Allies
6 x Raptoryx (90)
- Allies
6 x Furies (100)
- Allies
6 x Furies (100)
- Allies
Balewind Vortex (40)
Umbral Spellportal (70)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 380 / 400
Wounds: 127
 

I will try this tomorrow vs Silvaneth.

I think Raptoryx can do nice Dmg vs infantry.

Furies just for objetives.

The rest is tipical. 

Gaunt summoner with arcane sacrifice

LoC with Ethereal amulet 

And endless spell for more range.

[Frowny]

I was thinking something like

Lord of change, gryph feather charm

Blue scribes

Gaunt summoner general, arcane sacrifice

3 x10 pinks 

2x 6 enlightened on discs

Spellportal

Suffocating gravetide

Balewind vortex

 

Lots of bodies for objectives, 2 hammers to get them off theirs and a backbone of casters to take out key pieces before you get there. Thoughts? Also could drop 3 enlightened for another caster of some sort.

[BarbecueGamer]

On 8/2/2019 at 12:37 PM, umlaut31 said:

Hi everyone, I've been playing AoS on and off for a few years now and really keen to start a Tzeentch army as my next project. The prospect of high movement and a big magic phase + some really cool models is something I'm very keen to try (after playing Khorne and Beastclaw in the past). I'm doing quite a bit of theoryhammer at the moment as I  have only managed a few smaller games with proxy models, but I'd love some feedback on my list below as a starter for 10.

I'm not looking for a top tier army but my local meta is quite competitive (or at least, a few trick lists with either lots of shooting, lots of monsters/dragons etc) so I'm trying to come up with something to work towards that can hopefully handle a few different threats and  give me some different options for each game before I buy any models! Not sure how competitive the Skyshoal batallion is, but I love the Skyfire/Enlightened models and thought the lower drop, extra move and CP + artefact would come in handy (as well as the rule of cool obviously)!

Allegiance: Tzeentch
Mortal Realm: Ghur

Lord of Change (380)
 - Gryph-Feather Charm
 - Tzeentch's Firestorm

Gaunt Summoner (160) - General
 - Arcane Sacrifice
 - Treacherous Bond

Tzaangor Shaman (160)
 - Windshief Charm
 - Fold Reality

10 x Pink Horrors (180)
Bolt of Tzeentch

10 x Pink Horrors (180)
Treason of Tzeentch

5 x Chaos Warriors (90)
Hand weapon & Shield

Battalion - Skyshoal Coven (130)
3 x Tzaangor Skyfires (200)
3 x Tzaangor Skyfires (200)
6 x Tzaangor Enlightened on Discs (320)

Total - 2000pts

 

I guess my thinking with the list was to move the Lord of Change up with a unit of Pinks, and keep the Gaunt bonded with the Chaos warriors (to offer the gaunt a bit more protection with Look out Sir and 2+ shrug onto a 10 wound unit) whilst he uses arcane sacrifice on the other unit of Pinks to generate fate points. Tzaangor shaman to support enlightened with buffs on those crucial charges and skyfires to offer ranged support/kill off enemy characters, as well as the shaman being able to fold reality when things get difficult or windshief charm + summoning for late game board control. All being well it's 7 (8 with the potion) spells a turn (hopefully realistic with Gaunt  re-rolls from arcane sacrifice and the LoC command ability affecting all wizards in my list) so should be a fair amount of fate points for summoning as needed, and I have a few high damage spells that hopefully will be in range early on in the game.

Open to any suggestions or changes, and if I have missed anything obvious please let me know! I wasn't sure if I should swap one unit of pinks for some Tzaangors (but how effective are they in units of 10?), and then maybe flesh this unit out a bit by dropping the batallion (and one unit of skyfires) and getting more battleline bodies. Also thought about popping the Gaunt on a balewind but not sure if losing mobility for the rest of the game could make things difficult. Does anyone have any experience of similar lists or aspects from this list?

Thanks in advance! 😊

 

 

I run a similar list and have had pretty good results.  I play the list in a local league and have also been in a couple tournaments with it.  I recently won a small one day tournament and went 4-1 in a larger 2 day  tournament.  For mine I run 20 Tzaangors, 10 Pinks and 10 Kairic Acolytes or 5 Chaos Warriors for battle line. I also only run 3 skyfires or run none with a Blue Scribe.  Sometimes in my league I'll run a Mutalith Vortex Beast for the fun of it instead of the Skyfires.  I don't run any battalions. For endless spells I alway bring the Balewind Vortex.   I like to bring the Umbrel spell portal and pendulum too but swap these around with other endless spells sometimes.  I can run the pendulum through the Pinks to get more blue points and control portions of the board. I really like the block of 20 Tzaangors as they can  hold an area of the board very well.  Find some 1 Wound targets for the shaman to bring some Tzaangors back each turn.  I prefer Bolt of Tzeentch on the Gaunt Summoner to snipe heroes from 33" away. That in combination with the LoC with a Spell portal can really dish out mortal wounds from a distance.  The mortal wounds win the game for me and the Enlightened clean up anyone getting close to the casters. 

I feel the weakness is against alpha strike or teleport armies as we don't start with too many bodies on the board. Between Arcane Sacrafice, the pendulum and spell casting I can usually summon 20 blues by turn 2 but turn 1 can be tough to defend a hard hit. 

I have only been playing for 7 months but I really enjoy the versatility of the mixed Tzeentch list so far. 

[umlaut31]

Thanks for the advice, definitely lots of versatility! 

Good to know you have had some success with this kind of list too - especially with the mixed battlelines as was worried it would have to be lots of pinks etc. 

Do you find your gaunt summoner is too much of a target without treasonous bond or do you give him an artefact to help with protection? Or is it a case that he has so much range he can avoid being hurt easily by keeping his distance? 

I was also looking at the vortex beast as I love the model and they seem quite few and far between, either that or a chaos sorcerer lord on manticore instead of some skyfires but not sure he is good enough in either combat or magic!

[iogaa]

Hello,I'm going with Tzeench for my first AOS army.

I came up with a Meeting Engagement list that contains most of the units I like, what do you think of it?

Spoiler

Allegiance: Tzeentch

Spearhead
Chaos Sorcerer Lord (160)
- Runestaff
- Lore of Fate: Bolt of Tzeentch
10 x Kairic Acolytes (80)
3 x Flamers of Tzeentch (140)
5 x Chaos Knights (160)
- Ensorcelled Weapons

Main Body
Herald of Tzeentch on Burning Chariot (200)
- General
- Staff of Change
- Trait: Nexus of Fate
- Artefact: Aspect of Tzeentch
- Lore of Change: Bolt of Tzeentch
10 x Kairic Acolytes (80)
5 x Chaos Warriors (90)
- Hand Weapon & Shield

Rearguard
1 x Exalted Flamers of Tzeentch (90)

Total: 1000 / 1000
Extra Command Points: 0
Wounds: 68

 I also really like screamers, but don't really see how to include them in the list.

I read that you advise not to use flamers too much, with is why I only put one unit of them, else I would replace my knights and warriors with more flamers, and the sorcerer with an ogroid

[BarbecueGamer]

I have ran the Gaunt with Treacherous Bond but it seems wasted most of the time.  Putting Bolt on him gives so much hero sniping power. He does get killed sometimes but he is so far back that he is usually safe.  Just keep him screened with Pinks first turn then with blues to get the arcane Sacrafice off and you should be fine. 

 

I also would like to try the Chaos Sorceror Lord on Manticore. Looks like a great way to mix it up. 

[Sumanye]

On 8/2/2019 at 3:14 PM, Frowny said:

I do think furies will have a role in future slaves armies as fast mobile screens with lots of possibilities. Skinks are very strong in order, and these have similar tactical abilities in Chaos. More expensive, not faster, but slightly sturdier, notably killier and much faster.

 

I think they are stronger in Khorne or nurgle though, which lacks this kind of thing, as oppposed to tzeentch which already has endless screens and doesn't have many good combat units. Retreat from combat is great when you have multiple important fights. Against tzeentch they can mostly just pick the unit fighting the furies first. Everything else is mostly just chaff in melee: nothing but Enlightened are worth targeting first, and they already have an ability that makes you want to do that. I think its best when you have multiple strong melee units, since it then means if they target the furies, they loose something in exchange. 

The models from Warcry are not legal in pitched battles though per the GHB19

[Oreaper84]

How reliant is Tzeentch on CP? I mean i know that the LoC has a baller command ability, but is the strategy of the army dependent on it. To me maybe the destiny dice seems really strong (admittedly I'm new to the faction). The main reason i am asking is because the battalions seem under-powered/over-costed except for the change host, which i've played against and not at all a fan of. It seems like artifacts are a "nice to have" rather than a requirement like some armies....and it all may change with a new book....Just looking for peoples opinions

[Frowny]

I think that's a fair assessment.

The only command ability on heroes you want to use is the Lord of change.

Most units don't want to be in melee so rerolling charges isn't that useful.

Your demons are bravery 10 so don't flee too much and destiny dice can be used. 

Auto run may be useful but again, destiny dice can be used too.

That being said, reducing drops can be clutch for turn order. Tzeentch really  doesn't want t1. It has great screens and seldom can hit the target t1 since most spells are 18inch range. So reducing drops can be excellent there. 

[decker_cky]

On 8/5/2019 at 9:50 AM, Sumanye said:

The models from Warcry are not legal in pitched battles though per the GHB19

They're a more recent release with a pitched battle profile, so are legal. 

[Sumanye]

17 minutes ago, decker_cky said:

They're a more recent release with a pitched battle profile, so are legal. 

Although that would make sense, the GHB19 specifically says that is not the case

 

edit:  to be clear, the ghb19 says only models included in the pitched battle points book or the errata to it are allowed in pitched battles.  As warcry models are not in that book and not currently in its errata, they are not allowed in pitched battles.

Edited August 6, 2019 by Sumanye

[Oreaper84]

52 minutes ago, Sumanye said:

Although that would make sense, the GHB19 specifically says that is not the case

 

edit:  to be clear, the ghb19 says only models included in the pitched battle points book or the errata to it are allowed in pitched battles.  As warcry models are not in that book and not currently in its errata, they are not allowed in pitched battles.

I mean........i see the argument you're making, but seriously dude?......seriously?......They have points written in the same format as everything in the GHB, and it is intended clear as day......Intention is pretty crystal here right?

[Sumanye]

4 minutes ago, Oreaper84 said:

I mean........i see the argument you're making, but seriously dude?......seriously?......They have points written in the same format as everything in the GHB, and it is intended clear as day......Intention is pretty crystal here right?

So did the guardian of souls with mortality glass and a number of other things such as carrion empire battalions.  I didn’t make the rules man, the intention is clear yes, they are not allowed in pitched battles.

[Oreaper84]

1 minute ago, Sumanye said:

So did the guardian of souls with mortality glass and a number of other things such as carrion empire battalions.  I didn’t make the rules man, the intention is clear yes, they are not allowed in pitched battles.

Carrion empire didn't have points........Guardian with mortality glass didn't have points, everyone assumed it was the same as its counterpart. Also the Gaunt Summoner with familiars....no point so its gone.....difference these have POINTS and are published post GHB, so yeah i think it is clearly intended for pitched battle/matched play.

[Sumanye]

4 minutes ago, Oreaper84 said:

Carrion empire didn't have points........Guardian with mortality glass didn't have points, everyone assumed it was the same as its counterpart. Also the Gaunt Summoner with familiars....no point so its gone.....difference these have POINTS and are published post GHB, so yeah i think it is clearly intended for pitched battle/matched play.

Well it’s great that you think that, I’m just pointing out what the rules say, so don’t get bent out of shape . 

[Rellsipels]

15 hours ago, Sumanye said:

Although that would make sense, the GHB19 specifically says that is not the case

 

edit:  to be clear, the ghb19 says only models included in the pitched battle points book or the errata to it are allowed in pitched battles.  As warcry models are not in that book and not currently in its errata, they are not allowed in pitched battles.

Page 3 in the "Pitched battle profiles 2019" says; "Only units that are included in this book, or has a later publication date, can be used in a Pitched Battle game...".

To me it's clear that if it has a pitched battle profile, with points and all, and was released after GHB19, then it's good to go in pitched battles.

[Sumanye]

50 minutes ago, Rellsipels said:

Page 3 in the "Pitched battle profiles 2019" says; "Only units that are included in this book, or has a later publication date, can be used in a Pitched Battle game...".

To me it's clear that if it has a pitched battle profile, with points and all, and was released after GHB19, then it's good to go in pitched battles.

I was referring to the designer commentary that says ..

“Q: If a unit’s Pitched Battle profile is not included in the General’s Handbook 2019 or its Official Errata document, can it be used in a Pitched Battle?
A: No.”

You are right and maybe this comment only refers to profiles that currently existed when it was written, not new ones?

[Rellsipels]

3 minutes ago, Sumanye said:

I was referring to the designer commentary that says ..

“Q: If a unit’s Pitched Battle profile is not included in the General’s Handbook 2019 or its Official Errata document, can it be used in a Pitched Battle?
A: No.”

You are right and maybe this comment only refers to profiles that currently existed when it was written, not new ones?

Hmm, yeah that's pretty weird. Not exactly super clear what they are referring to. But I would assume they don't mean new profiles.

[AverageBoss]

The commentary is addressing models that DID have points, like the GoS with glass, and GS with familiars.

If it completely overrode the GHB, then even new battletomes would be illegal.

[Sigwarus]

Now back to tzeencth! What do you think of Changehost vs the top armies? I feel we got the edge vs FEC and skaven but would struggle vs DoK? Fyreslayers then? We would dominate Most battleplans due to mobility. 

[Oreaper84]

3 hours ago, Sigwarus said:

Now back to tzeencth! What do you think of Changehost vs the top armies? I feel we got the edge vs FEC and skaven but would struggle vs DoK? Fyreslayers then? We would dominate Most battleplans due to mobility. 

The changehost counters DoK and Fireslayers because of their lack of fly. If you screen your characters against heartrenders then its quite easy to zone the board and feed them horrors and spell snipe the important characters. Plus the Gaunt Summoners has one of the absolute best anti horde tech around. Couple these with the fact that neither is likely to stop most of our key spells....its only gaps/mistakes that should really spell doom in these matchups.

[Curzex]

Hi guys, i played vs Sylvaneth last week. Get Major win but was hard (new silvaneth are nice).

My list is posted in this treath.

Enemy list is + -

2 treelord 

1 revenant

Drycha 6 kournoth bow 3 with scytes

2 units of tree revenant 

Ande shadesphire band.

The mision was the one that has 4 objetives (1 friendly 2 neutral 1 enemy).

Well furies where the MVP so so far.

I started the game getting 2 objetives neutral with both furies and put both units at 6". So Sylvaneth just cant take no one, one unit negated one and get destroyed the other one flee and get the objetive in following turn just for a 9-2 in turn 2

I rapyorys just charge one treelord but do nothing (totally my fault) 

In turn 3 i got the enemy objetive plus 2 neutral my enemy get my objetive by TP of revenants.

One kournoth bow get destroyed by enlightered but the other kill mye enlightered unit ( 2 miniatures left)

Just for a 17-6 . Then he got 2 neutral and my objetive again for a 17-14 the last turn (no time for 5 turn) i got enemy objetive plus mine for a 22 and Sylvaneth hoy 2 neutral by 2 treelord ( 1 with 1 wound left).

We end the game 22-18 but the first 2 turns do all that i need for win.

Furies are so good imo!

I try a new list:

Allegiance: Tzeentch
Mortal Realm: Chamon
Gaunt Summoner (160)
- General
- Trait: Arcane Sacrifice 
- Artefact: Paradoxical Shield 
Tzaangor Shaman (160)
Chaos Sorcerer Lord (160)
- Runestaff
Theddra Skull-Scryer (150)
- Allies
20 x Tzaangors (360)
- 4x Pair of Savage Blade
- 8x Savage Greatblade
- 8x Savage Blade & Arcanite Shield
10 x Pink Horrors of Tzeentch (180)
10 x Pink Horrors of Tzeentch (180)
6 x Tzaangor Enlightened on Disc(320)
6 x Furies (100)
- Allies
6 x Furies (100)
- Allies
5 x Godsworn Hunt (0)
- Allies
Balewind Vortex (40)
Umbral Spellportal (70)

Total: 1980 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 350 / 400
Wounds: 134
 

The godsworn is just for laughts.

The sorcerer got a impresive spell ( repeat 1 at save wounds and hit) just for the tzangor

Soz for my english.

Edited August 8, 2019 by Curzex

[MrCharisma]

Just in case you missed it, a few weeks ago I recorded Faction Focus Disciples of Tzeentch with two highly skilled DoT Changlings: Mick Wendel & Dan Cockran. Yes... there is more to DoT than Changehost, so we talk about list building, customising the force through spells/artefacts/traits, and getting the most out of them on the tabletop.