AoS 2 - Blades of Khorne Discussion

[Kharneth]

Any advice for fighting skaven at 2k? I'm expecting 2 abominations, some flamethrower ogres, and lots of rats. 

 

Also for fighting idoneth deepkin at 1k? My friend has a lot of eels and a shark, idk what else. 

 

I've got a bloodthirster, 50 bloodletters, 2x10 blood warriors, 10 bloodreavers, 3x3 skullcrushers, 2x5 skullreapers, a khorgorath, juggerlord, mighty lord, bloodsecrator, 3 slaughterpriests, a bloodstoker, an exalted deathbringer, and an aspiring deathbringer. Skaven, Idoneth Deepkin, and Free Guild are the only forces I know I'll be up against in the near future. 

This is what I'm thinking for a 2k point list based on what I've learned here, but I'm not sure if I should use gore pilgrims in 1k or not and I have no idea what deepkin can do:

200 - Gore Pilgrims

320 - Wrath of Khorne Bloodthirster - Death dealer, Immense Power

140 - Bloodsecrator - Brazen Rune

100 - Slaughterpriest - Blood Sacrifice

100 - Slaughterpriest - Killing Frenzy, Wraith-hammer and Hackblade

100 - Slaughterpriest - Killing Frenzy, Wrath-hammer and Hackblade

80 - Bloodstoker

200 - 10 Blood Warriors - Goreaxes, Goreglaive, Icon

70 - 10 Bloodreavers - Reaverblades, FC

320 - 30 Bloodletters - FC

170 - 5 Skullreapers - Daemonweapons, Soultearer, Icon

170 - 5 Skullreapers - Daemonweapons, Soultearer, Icon

Edited November 21, 2018 by Kharneth

[Kyyn]

Can a Slaughterpriest cast a Blood Blessing like Killing Frenzie from the book and a Bloodfuelled Prayer like Blood Boil from warscroll in the same hero phase ?

[Rumblefish]

Yes, one of each.

You do have to pick your ONE Blood Blessing with your army list though.

[Kazimer]

Oh, i've been doing it wrong then! So the Priest gets more or less 2 prayer powers then? That makes him a lot more viable than I first thought.

[Roark]

2 minutes ago, Kazimer said:

Oh, i've been doing it wrong then! So the Priest gets more or less 2 prayer powers then? That makes him a lot more viable than I first thought.

You can use both a Prayer and a Blessing in the same Hero phase.

Edited November 21, 2018 by Roark

[Kazimer]

I was unaware that they were two different things, I just thought that the warscroll powers were indicating that "on top of the selection of 6 prayers, you may instead use one of the two blessings as well". I didn't realize they were two totally different pools to use.

[Retro]

2 minutes ago, Kazimer said:

I was unaware that they were two different things, I just thought that the warscroll powers were indicating that "on top of the selection of 6 prayers, you may instead use one of the two blessings as well". I didn't realize they were two totally different pools to use.

I'm pretty sure in the battletome in the allegiance section that lists the 6 prayers it specifies that you can use them in addition to any prayers they already know.

I had a guy pull me up on it at a league night once and had to find the exact wording for him.

Edited November 21, 2018 by Retro

[Kazimer]

Fair enough! I'm a very, very new player, so im still learning the small details.

[Retro]

@Kharneth your list looks pretty good, I personally am not a big fan of blood sacrifice though and would probably go with another killing frenzy as you've got 3 viable targets to deal mortal wounds on a 6+ or even bronzed flesh.

I've only played against idoneth a couple of times and the other guy was only just learning them. The only specific advice I can give is to be wary when he gets the tidal ability that allows him to attack first with all his units. It will apply in your turn and his and can be brutal.

@Kazimer all good, that's the sort of thing this forum is for!

[Isotop]

On 11/15/2018 at 10:17 PM, Darksteve said:

Correct.  With a +1 net modifer on the roll they will never have a 1 after the modifiers are applied.

Hi guys. Sorry for the late reply on this one - I read it a few days ago while riding the train and just remembered it, 

I think you can not "safe" your Skullreapers from the mortal wound by giving them +1 to wound since on a roll of 1 the attack sequence ends before applying any modifications:

"A wound roll of 1 before modification always fails [...]"

+

"If not [euqualing or beating the attacking weapon’s To Wound characteristic], then the attack fails and the attack sequence ends."

(https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/PDF/AoS_Rulesheets/ENG_AoSSW_Rules_booklet_web.pdf, page 7 under MAKING ATTACKS)

Am I right on this one?

[Luke1705]

Isotop yes you are correct. Can’t stop a natural 1

[Revan123]

I played on the tournament recently and came accross the problem, that I can't stand against shooty Stormcasts, jumping all around the field and Haradrons. Only if I am going to get a double turn, which I got only once, when  it was too late. 

I started to think that I even should drop gore piligrims and take 90 letters instead, because my forces can't stand that shooting properly.  Get cogs, herald of nurgle and hope to cast it as well as use the blessing. 

And I don't know what I can do against fyreslayers with their dropping shooters and fighters. Not telling that because a hole in the rules they can took a batalion which can give them pluses to initiative role despite the fact that core book states clearly that it can't be changed. But there is no FAQ about this batallion, so it still can be used at least in our meta it is allowed,

[Darksteve]

6 hours ago, Isotop said:

Hi guys. Sorry for the late reply on this one - I read it a few days ago while riding the train and just remembered it, 

I think you can not "safe" your Skullreapers from the mortal wound by giving them +1 to wound since on a roll of 1 the attack sequence ends before applying any modifications:

"A wound roll of 1 before modification always fails [...]"

+

"If not [euqualing or beating the attacking weapon’s To Wound characteristic], then the attack fails and the attack sequence ends."

(https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/PDF/AoS_Rulesheets/ENG_AoSSW_Rules_booklet_web.pdf, page 7 under MAKING ATTACKS)

Am I right on this one?

 

3 hours ago, Luke1705 said:

Isotop yes you are correct. Can’t stop a natural 1

There is no specific wordingin that section that instructs you not to apply the modifiers just that the roll will fail regardless of them. So your skullreapers will fail to hit but will have not rolled a "1" after the modifiers when the ability checks the value. Order of operations is as follows: 

1) Roll dice

2) Apply rerolls as relevant 

3) Apply modifiers

4) Abilities that check the value of the die are checked

5) Next step(in the To Hit step this os where the natural 1s to hit would end the attack sequence. Same as the To Would step.)

As the checks happen within the step skullreapers can be "saved" from rolling 1s by modifiers, those rolls still miss though

[mangaramb]

Against a heavy shooting army is very hard for Khorne, you can only hope for a good mission.

I've played a few days ago against Skaven with 3x40 rats and lots of shooting and spells. Basically he did around 20 mortal wounds (spells and shooting) and 10-20 normal shooting wounds per turn. And the rats also do some damage. So by end of turn 3 I had only a few units left on table and killed in the whole game only 50-60 of his rats and no other units. He was quite lucky with rolls and also got double turn after my first movement. I don't know what do to against such an army. ..

I think it's best to always try deploying first (so a some Battalion is needed) and let the other played have first turn, then you can hopefully charge first turn if he moves something forward or at least avoid double turn of shooting at your army.

Also it's good to have many small units for BloodTithe points and to deny deepstriking/teleporting of mobile armies by keeping a few spread out units  of Bloodreavers in the back.

[Isotop]

1 hour ago, Darksteve said:

 

There is no specific wordingin that section that instructs you not to apply the modifiers just that the roll will fail regardless of them. So your skullreapers will fail to hit but will have not rolled a "1" after the modifiers when the ability checks the value. Order of operations is as follows: 

1) Roll dice

2) Apply rerolls as relevant 

3) Apply modifiers

4) Abilities that check the value of the die are checked

5) Next step(in the To Hit step this os where the natural 1s to hit would end the attack sequence. Same as the To Would step.)

As the checks happen within the step skullreapers can be "saved" from rolling 1s by modifiers, those rolls still miss though

As I quoted, the rules say "A wound roll of 1 before modification always fails [...]" (emphasis mine) and that the attack sequence ends the moment you fail your wound roll. Could you explain how you duduced the ordering you presented from the core rules?

 

[Luke1705]

Actually I think Darksteve is correct now. The roll itself is stil subject to modification. The rule would have to say “if you roll an unmodified 1” for it to be unstoppable.

Interestingly, the reverse would also be true, where if they ever suffer -1 to wound, those mortals would proc on 1’s and 2’s

[Retro]

7 hours ago, Luke1705 said:

Actually I think Darksteve is correct now. The roll itself is stil subject to modification. The rule would have to say “if you roll an unmodified 1” for it to be unstoppable.

Interestingly, the reverse would also be true, where if they ever suffer -1 to wound, those mortals would proc on 1’s and 2’s

Actually, it would probably be only on 2s because it isn't on 1 or less

[Darksteve]

6 hours ago, Retro said:

Actually, it would probably be only on 2s because it isn't on 1 or less

You are correct. It would just be on twos in that case if the net modifier is a -1. Similar to how Crimson Crown moves with modifiers.

[Darksteve]

13 hours ago, Luke1705 said:

Actually I think Darksteve is correct now. The roll itself is stil subject to modification. The rule would have to say “if you roll an unmodified 1” for it to be unstoppable.

Interestingly, the reverse would also be true, where if they ever suffer -1 to wound, those mortals would proc on 1’s and 2’s

Yep glad we see eye to eye

[Roark]

1. Can a Beastlord or Doombull lead a Khorne army as General from within a Brass Despoilers battalion?

2. If yes, can he take a Command Trait and Artefact from within the Beasts of Chaos battletome?

[kenshin620]

2 hours ago, Roark said:

1. Can a Beastlord or Doombull lead a Khorne army as General from within a Brass Despoilers battalion?

2. If yes, can he take a Command Trait and Artefact from within the Beasts of Chaos battletome?

1. Technically YES

2. Technically NO

So theres no real point in having a beast general as of now, and I'm not sure if they're going to change that. I think it sort of makes fluff sense a bit anyways since among BoC, god marked beasts are outliers and the gods themselves do prefer mortal followers for gifts n such.

 

Except Tzaangors for....reasons.

 

Also hey look Karanak's new model!

 

[Kaleb Daark]

4 hours ago, Roark said:

1. Can a Beastlord or Doombull lead a Khorne army as General from within a Brass Despoilers battalion?

2. If yes, can he take a Command Trait and Artefact from within the Beasts of Chaos battletome?

1.Yes and no for point 2 ☹️

I’ve sent faq team the conundrum to address in the next faq.

all we need is beasts of chaos to get the mortal keyword and we’re cooking on gas.

it would be the final piece of my khornate jigsaw.

in in the process of trying to work out if I can get khorgorath hooves onto the bullgor lower legs instead of feet!

 

perhaps we can put a loud voice gw’s way over this- tzeentch gets a magical ogre as a hero, I think we khornates should have our blood soaked psychopath bull.

[Xasz]

42 minutes ago, Kaleb Daark said:

all we need is beasts of chaos to get the mortal keyword and we’re cooking on gas.

Not going to happen, GW has been pretty aggressive in limiting interactions between two books/allegiances within the current GHB cycle. (especially when it comes to battalions and artifacts)

 

Edited November 24, 2018 by Xasz

[Kaleb Daark]

17 minutes ago, Xasz said:

Not going to happen, GW has been pretty aggressive in limiting interactions between two books/allegiances within the current GBH cycle. (especially when it comes to battalions and artifacts)

 

I know.

hence asking the faq team to consider and clarify in the next round of faqs.

[Kaleb Daark]

2 hours ago, kenshin620 said:

 hey look Karanak's new model!

 

Depending on his size, if he’s big then I’d like to convert him with two heads as a mount for my chaos lord arbaal style for a lord on daemonic mount.

and yes... totally agree about tzaangors.

Edited November 24, 2018 by Kaleb Daark