AoS 2 - Blades of Khorne Discussion

[Aspirant Snaeper]

So I'm looking on Warscroll Builder, and I see two different point values for the Aspiring Deathbringer with Goreaxe and Skullhammer (80 and 100). I'm going to assume it's the higher point value, correct? 

I may have to kit-bash an Aspiring Deathbringer with Wrathhammer then. 

Anyways, I was playing around with a List idea that's based around an older Gore Pilgrims list I've used before. 

Allegiance: Khorne - Mortal Realm: Ghur

LEADERS

• Aspiring Deathbringer (80) - General - Command Trait : Violent Urgency - Bloodaxe and Wrath Hammer - Artefact : Gryph-feather Charm ( or Aspiring Deathbringer with Goreaxe and Skullhammer (100) - General - Command Trait: Violent Urgency - Artefact : Gryph-feather Charm )
• Bloodsecrator (140) - Artefact : The Brazen Rune
• Slaughterpriest (100) - Blood Blessing : Killing Frenzy
• Slaughterpriest (100) - Blood Blessing : Killing Frenzy
• Slaughterpriest with Hackblade and Wrathhammer (100) - Blood Blessing : Bronzed Flesh
• Skarr Bloodwrath (80) ( or Bloodstoker (80) or Skulltaker (100) or Bloodmaster Herald of Khorne - Artefact : Gryph-feather Charm (taken from Aspiring Deathbringer above))

UNITS

• 10 x Blood Warriors (200) -Goreaxes - 1 x Goreglaives ( or NOTHING 10x Chaos Warriors (180) - Greatweapons )
• 20 x Bloodreavers (140) -Meatripper Axes
• 30 x Bloodletters (320) - Gore Drenched Icon
• 1 x Chaos Warshrine (160) - Blood Blessing : Bronzed Flesh
• 5 x Wrathmongers (180)
• 5 x Skullreapers (170) -Daemonblades - 1 x Soultearers

BATTALIONS

• Gore Pilgrims (200)

TOTAL: 1970/2000

EXTRA COMMAND POINTS: 1

Thoughts on design:

This army works in five key blocks: 

1. The Rear Command/Support block is the smallest, consisting of the Gore Pilgrim Heroes sitting back and providing buffs. Killing Frenzy's and the Bronzed Flesh are for the Bloodletters first and foremost, but can be applied elsewhere as the need arises. 
2. The Bloodletter block is next and almost stand alone. Early Blood Tithe might be used to get a Bloodmaster on the board, if needed. These guys go towards whatever needs killing the most. 
3. The Bloodreaver block is the sleeper here. They'll be hand in hand with the Warshrine to provide a surprise to those who might be used to paper-thin shirtless muscle heads. Will work closely with the Forward Command/Support block more often than not. 
4. The Bloodwarrior block will consist of them and the Skullreapers. These guys will take advantage of the Portal of Khorne's AOE, but otherwise get sparing buffs. That's okay since they can handle themselves quite well. 
5. Lastly, the Forward Command/Support block will typically work with the Bloodreaver block, using them as a chaff shield/delivery package. This will consist of the Aspiring Deathbringer, Skarr Bloodwrath and the Wrathmongers. They have the chops to work on their own if need be. 

The Wrathhammer Deathbringer's Thirst for Glory ability works really well with Skarr Bloodwrath here.  Skarr wants to die (and you want him to die, too) so when he charges ahead and softens up a unit for the Bloodreavers (or whoever the Forward C/S block is supporting) he can hopefully get himself killed and allow your Wrathhammer General to re-roll hits and save rolls for the rest of the game. Additionally, Skarr and the Deathbringer have 3" weapons to contribute to the fight in case I decide to hide them behind a line of Bloodreavers/letters/warriors instead. 

The Forward C/S block is all about working with the Bloodreavers and making what is normally a chaff unit a surprise instead. Bronzed Flesh and Protection of the Dark Gods give the 'reavers enough toughness to last more than one round of combat. With a +1 attack from the General, Wrathmongers, Warshrine's TOTEM and Bloodsecrator's Portal of Skulls, as well as the re-rolls from the Warshrine's Favour of Khorne and you start to realize what these guys might be capable of. Toss in the General's Violent Urgency and they'll make it to combat, too. All of this applies to the Bloodwarriors as well in case I want an even scarier group and need the Bloodreavers as chaff. If Skarr doesn't pull his weight, this is where the Bloodstoker comes in to further make this terrifyingly killy. 

While the aforementioned Forward C/S + Bloodwarrior block could be terrifying, the 'warriors are designed to be independent and simply be a tough barrier to ensure the Skullreapers end up where they're most needed. As long as they're ignoring battleshock and getting the +1 from the Portal of Skulls they'll be killy enough for me. However, if I noticed I'm running short on Command Points, I am considering swapping them for Chaos Warriors with Great Weapons to get my list to 1950pts (as long as my Forward C/S Heroes both stay at 80). I don't think this should be a problem as my General is the only one with a Command Ability and most of my army should be ignoring Battleshock. Though the new run/charge Universal Command Abilities could be crucial, so it's worth considering. But getting big guys with -1 Rend is never a bad thing, even if they're not swinging as reliably or as often. This can be overcome by moving the Warshrine to them instead of the Bloodreavers.  then I'm S.O.L. because BATTALION REQUIREMENTS, SNAEPER. 

The biggest let down of this army is that it's slow. Summoning will help a bit, as will Skarr popping up around the board when and where he's needed. Priority summons would be the Bloodmaster, Additional Bloodletters, a chance Skullcannon and lastly a WoK Bloodthirster. 

I'm not really thinking about Tournaments or anything, and in the past I've had my Battleline pull enough weight that units like Wrathmongers and Skullreapers didn't even get a chance to contribute. Granted, those games were just friendly slugfests played without Objectives. 

I also put Skulltaker as a considered 6th Hero as he's always pulled his weight for me in the past and made his points back and then some.

C & C?

Edited August 20, 2018 by Aspirant Snaeper

[kenshin620]

26 minutes ago, Aspirant Snaeper said:

So I'm looking on Warscroll Builder, and I see two different point values for the Aspiring Deathbringer with Goreaxe and Skullhammer (80 and 100). I'm going to assume it's the higher point value, correct? 

 

Correct. Aspiring Deathbringer with Goreaxe and Skullhammer used to be 80 in BOK, but is 100 in GHB 2018. So the 100pt is the cost for Goreaxe and Skullhammer.

 

I think the point increase is because he has a different ability and has consistent number of attacks over the plain AD.

 

Edited August 20, 2018 by kenshin620

[Aspirant Snaeper]

1 hour ago, kenshin620 said:

Correct. Aspiring Deathbringer with Goreaxe and Skullhammer used to be 80 in BOK, but is 100 in GHB 2018. So the 100pt is the cost for Goreaxe and Skullhammer.

I think the point increase is because he has a different ability and has consistent number of attacks over the plain AD.

That, and with the new Command Points, his Command Ability will likely be used more in forces where he's not the General. 

He's been set aside for now in favor of the Wrathhammer version. Since I'm mostly using him as a source of buffs, being able to make him an absolute tank with his Ability going off + the Gryph-Feather Charm (+ Look Out, Sir!) will hopefully ensure he's pumping out that +1 attack to nearby units and Violently Urging them as long as possible. That and being able to unreliably attack from behind his meat shields with his 3" range. 

Edited August 20, 2018 by Aspirant Snaeper

[Agent of Chaos]

Solid and well balanced list. A little on the slow side as you noted however that is somewhat mitigated by attacking in waves and shouldn't be too much of a drama in most games.

The idea of including chaos warriors instead of blood warriors won't work because of battalion requirements. 

[Aspirant Snaeper]

3 minutes ago, Agent of Chaos said:

Solid and well balanced list. A little on the slow side as you noted however that is somewhat mitigated by attacking in waves and shouldn't be too much of a drama in most games.

The idea of including chaos warriors instead of blood warriors won't work because of battalion requirements. 

Oh right! Totally slipped my mind. 

[Agent of Chaos]

I would love to tinker with including more chaos warriors in my khorne lists but often run into the same issue. 

[Aspirant Snaeper]

8 minutes ago, Agent of Chaos said:

I would love to tinker with including more chaos warriors in my khorne lists but often run into the same issue. 

Yeah, honestly if I feel like the Skullreapers and/or Wrathmongers are not contributing, I may try out going for a full-on Horde of armored bodies. Although that might stretch the buffs thin and ruin the late-game punch. I do like Greatweapons and Halberds, especially with the buffs Khorne can give out to make those weapons more reliable. 

I've also used their shields to great effect against Death armies in the past. 

Edited August 20, 2018 by Aspirant Snaeper

[Agent of Chaos]

I feel like a unit of 10 chaos warriors with great weapons, buffed with extra attacks and hit bonuses,  could do well offensively, but will it do any better than a unit of a 5 x skull reapers or wrathmongers for the same points? 5 extra wounds makes them slightly more survivable but they're an offensive unit so survivability isn't the key criteria. Also without all the special rules they're just not as fun. 

What might make more sense is  a unit with halberds for defensive work/objective camping. When buffed with extra attacks/hit bonuses and attacking in two ranks, those guys can still dish out some damage. But if their main role is defense then you will want the reroll saves of 1, which means the min size is 20, but then you will probably want some redundancy so your opponent needs to do more than 2 wounds to cancel that ability, so that pushes you to a unit of 25, but then you realise its only 30 points more for the max size of 30, at which point you have plowed 480 points into a battleline unit who's main role is to camp on objectives and then you start writing your list again because that final realisation makes no sense outside of a narrative list... So then you settle for a unit of 10 for objective camping at which point you decide to just run Blood Warriors as they are more flexible in game and you need them for the battalion anyway... sigh... 

[Grendel]

I know it's blasphemous, but does anyone ally in a Wizard such as a Chaos Sorcerer Lord?

The buffing spells / ability seem to work quite nicely, plus access to endless spells. 

Planting the Bloodsecrator's banner doesn't seem to really affect a friendly wizard if you plant it after casting spells, if I'm reading the timing right. 

[Charles]

45 minutes ago, Grendel said:

I know it's blasphemous, but does anyone ally in a Wizard such as a Chaos Sorcerer Lord?

The buffing spells / ability seem to work quite nicely, plus access to endless spells. 

Planting the Bloodsecrator's banner doesn't seem to really affect a friendly wizard if you plant it after casting spells, if I'm reading the timing right. 

I am painting one at the moment, not sure if I will ever use him in my army though, it just feels wrong.

 

[Bjornas]

Not sure if this has already been discussed, but - Gorecleaver: "any wound rolls of 6 made with this weapon inflict a number of mortal wounds equal to the weapon’s Damage characteristic instead of being resolved normally."

I am looking at the latest errata but as far as I can see there is no edit with "any wound rolls of 6 or more made with...". Does that mean it only procs on sixes then? 

I'm specifically interested in how it works with the Juggerlord's weapon and his +1 to wound on the charge ability. I'm trying to decide whether to go with the Gorecleaver or the Ghur weapon which gives +2 dmg on a 6+ to wound. What do you think?

[kenshin620]

5 hours ago, Grendel said:

I know it's blasphemous, but does anyone ally in a Wizard such as a Chaos Sorcerer Lord?

The buffing spells / ability seem to work quite nicely, plus access to endless spells. 

Planting the Bloodsecrator's banner doesn't seem to really affect a friendly wizard if you plant it after casting spells, if I'm reading the timing right. 

I think some people bring the tzeentch gaunt summoner.

 

4 hours ago, Bjornas said:

Not sure if this has already been discussed, but - Gorecleaver: "any wound rolls of 6 made with this weapon inflict a number of mortal wounds equal to the weapon’s Damage characteristic instead of being resolved normally."

I am looking at the latest errata but as far as I can see there is no edit with "any wound rolls of 6 or more made with...". Does that mean it only procs on sixes then? 

I'm specifically interested in how it works with the Juggerlord's weapon and his +1 to wound on the charge ability. I'm trying to decide whether to go with the Gorecleaver or the Ghur weapon which gives +2 dmg on a 6+ to wound. What do you think?

One problem with the "6 or more" stuff is that generally it's a legacy rule from AoS 1.0, with 2.0 going on natural rolls. With the BoK book being 1.0 book, it straddles the line with its wording. I'd go on a limb and say natural rolls since it doesn't mention "or more" in its wording and the state of 2.0 moving towards natural results.

 

But if RAI meant to be "6 or more", then that takes precedent.

[Dan.Ford]

11 hours ago, kenshin620 said:

I think some people bring the tzeentch gaunt summoner.

 

One problem with the "6 or more" stuff is that generally it's a legacy rule from AoS 1.0, with 2.0 going on natural rolls. With the BoK book being 1.0 book, it straddles the line with its wording. I'd go on a limb and say natural rolls since it doesn't mention "or more" in its wording and the state of 2.0 moving towards natural results.

 

But if RAI meant to be "6 or more", then that takes precedent.

Before the new faq this was easily answered as there 'was' a FAQ that say a roll of 6 in AOS is synonymous as 6 or more ... ish.

But that faq was removed, !!

So now for some abilities, traits etc in BoK and FEC and probably other armies from Aos1 ish , you will find you now have a 'magic' number that will move up and down each players turn/ phases due to buffs and de- buffs.

So your 6 maybe buffed so a 4 is special Only ( 5&6 are normal) , then a 5 Only (6 is normal) etc

[Dan.Ford]

11 hours ago, kenshin620 said:

I think some people bring the tzeentch gaunt summoner.

 

One problem with the "6 or more" stuff is that generally it's a legacy rule from AoS 1.0, with 2.0 going on natural rolls. With the BoK book being 1.0 book, it straddles the line with its wording. I'd go on a limb and say natural rolls since it doesn't mention "or more" in its wording and the state of 2.0 moving towards natural results.

 

But if RAI meant to be "6 or more", then that takes precedent.

Before the new faq this was easily answered as there 'was' a FAQ that say a roll of 6 in AOS is synonymous as 6 or more ... ish.

But that faq was removed, !!

So now for some abilities, traits etc in BoK and FEC and probably other armies from Aos1 ish , you will find you now have a 'magic' number that will move up and down each players turn/ phases due to buffs and de- buffs.

So your 6 maybe buffed so a 4 is special Only ( 5&6 are normal) , then a 5 Only (6 is normal) etc

[Aspirant Snaeper]

So I posed the other half of this question in the DoK thread, but I'd like to put it to my fellow Bloodletters as well:

What would you say Khorne's alignment is? Lawful Evil? Chaotic Evil? Something else? I would imagine him and Khaine have vastly different ideaologies. What I gathered was that Khaine's philosophy is more ritualistic and necessary, while Khorne is just raw bloodlust.

I realize that Khorne is the God of War for Chaos, and War is inherently chaotic, but he seems to be pretty ironclad on his simple rules. Even if those rules themselves cause Chaos. I'm not well versed with alignments so I was just curious.

[Bululu]

Hi guys, first post around. Im an old time WHF veteran, i skipped AOS till now, ive read all the posts on this thread. So hello to everyone :).

I've a list coming out of my mind, i think it would look great on the battlefield and with all the charges will be fun to play. I would like to know if its to any degree competitive or just casual ( i would like to win from time to time). I would also like to know what general trait/artifact to chose and if the configuration of weapons on de skullcrushers could be better. Thanks a lot in advance and here is te list.

 

Allegiance: Khorne

Leaders
Lord Of Khorne On Juggernaut (140)
- General

Battleline
3 x Mighty Skullcrushers (140)
- Bloodglaives
3 x Mighty Skullcrushers (140)
- Bloodglaives
3 x Mighty Skullcrushers (140)
- Bloodglaives
3 x Mighty Skullcrushers (140)
- Ensorcelled Axes
3 x Mighty Skullcrushers (140)
- Ensorcelled Axes
3 x Mighty Skullcrushers (140)
- Ensorcelled Axes
3 x Mighty Skullcrushers (140)
- Ensorcelled Axes

Behemoths
Chaos War Mammoth (320)
Chaos War Mammoth (320)

Battalions
Brass Stampede (200)

Total: 1960 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 157
 

 

[Xasz]

Chaotic-Neutral at best, Chaotic-Evil at worst.

(There is an argument to be made that Khorne is more hierarchy driven than other chaos gods and therefore somewhat order driven but it only concerns his own followers. Which he doesn't really care about. So I don't feel like taking this into account, as this hierarchy is rather "primal", the strong lead, the weak follow but only until a stronger entity comes along. It's not really what order stands for on the alignment chart.)

[kozokus]

6 hours ago, Xasz said:

Chaotic-Neutral at best

Chaotic obviously.

Neutral probably depends on the aspect you want to quote.

 

But the true answer is that Khorne is ALL.  Because Khorne's law governs us all from the bloody beginning to the agonising end.

[kenshin620]

Well aside from the D&D alignment system not being waterproof, I agree that Khorne (if not all of chaos) are chaotic neutral <-> chaotic evil in warhammer (outside of Cathayian chaos cults who cheat through bureaucracy or something).

Khorne does not care where the blood flows, just that it flows! Can it be through pillaging an innocent village? Yes. Can it be done by a khorne warband butchering another khorne warband? Yup.

Can it be done by attacking skeletons? No! Go find something meaty!

 

6 hours ago, Bululu said:

Hi guys, first post around. Im an old time WHF veteran, i skipped AOS till now, ive read all the posts on this thread. So hello to everyone :).

I've a list coming out of my mind, i think it would look great on the battlefield and with all the charges will be fun to play. I would like to know if its to any degree competitive or just casual ( i would like to win from time to time). I would also like to know what general trait/artifact to chose and if the configuration of weapons on de skullcrushers could be better. Thanks a lot in advance and here is te list.

 

Allegiance: Khorne

Leaders
Lord Of Khorne On Juggernaut (140)
- General

Battleline
3 x Mighty Skullcrushers (140)
- Bloodglaives
3 x Mighty Skullcrushers (140)
- Bloodglaives
3 x Mighty Skullcrushers (140)
- Bloodglaives
3 x Mighty Skullcrushers (140)
- Ensorcelled Axes
3 x Mighty Skullcrushers (140)
- Ensorcelled Axes
3 x Mighty Skullcrushers (140)
- Ensorcelled Axes
3 x Mighty Skullcrushers (140)
- Ensorcelled Axes

Behemoths
Chaos War Mammoth (320)
Chaos War Mammoth (320)

Battalions
Brass Stampede (200)

Total: 1960 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 157
 

 

While the blood stampede is cool, I'll be worried about the lack of Khorne buffers like slaughterpriests and bloodstokers. Not to mention the lack of dispels so magic is gonna hurt!

[TheAdequateWargamer]

2 minutes ago, kenshin620 said:

Can it be done by attacking skeletons? No! Go find something meaty!

...but Skulls!

Skulls for the skull throne

[kenshin620]

4 minutes ago, TheAdequateWargamer said:

...but Skulls!

Skulls for the skull throne

But half of them are already broken!☠️

It has to be a nice pristine skull! Not covered in graveyard dirt!

[LLV]

Khorne had some healthy finishes at wargames con

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1FdyuFdkvC0OQYe3oK5ghCoH7iTmLP6EO0I2vvMkRIlU/mobilebasic

 

[Oreaper84]

So it may have been answered already....but i could find it in the rules section or here... What is the timing on the wrathmongers buff. It says all within 3" of a warthmonger in the combat phase ........make 1 more attack with each of their weapons. Is this before or after pile in? Do i measure at the start of the combat phase, or just before i actually roll for the attacks? 

It seems to imply after i pile in, measure before the attacks but i would want to clarify to be sure because i finally got a box and i need to decide which unit to build (been playing this army for 2 years its about time, lol)

[Agent of Chaos]

 

2 hours ago, Oreaper84 said:

 Do i measure at the start of the combat phase, or just before i actually roll for the attacks? 

You would measure the range of the buff just before you roll for the attacks. 

[Agent of Chaos]

@Bululu no doubt that list would look amazing on the table however you need more heroes/buffers to be competitive. Many of the scenarios require heroes or "whoever has the most models" to take objectives so with only one hero and no unit with more than 3 models you will find it hard to compete on the objectives in most games. Also, you can only summon units within 12" of a hero so as soon as your Lord on Juggernaught is dead your summoning will be almost completely shut down (apart from the 8 point hero phase summon). 

As a minimal change I would recommend dropping one of the mammoths and spending those points on some heroes. e.g. Bloodsecrator (140), Bloodstoker (80) leaving 100 points for an Aspiring Deathbringer/Slaughterpriest or another unit for holding objectives such as 5 x Blood Warriors or 5 x Flesh hounds.