AoS 2 - Blades of Khorne Discussion

[ledha]

Just now, Reuben Parker said:

Wholly within 16 of bloodsecrator is easy at that point they’re on 3 attacks and with a single whip re roll all fail wounds so they can be ok. Not great but decent so there is some non screening uses for them. 

because of their base, you won't have more bloodreavers than bloodwarriors (for example) or bloodletters in contact, so they will barely hit better while dying as soon as someone watch them funny. Don't whip them when you can whip bloodwarriors, skullreapers or wrathmongers

[kahadin]

The base size is their biggest weakness.

However I do like that they all have -1 rend.  I guess you could try to pull something off with bloodletters if you want the rending. I've used reavers in the past and had little luck with them for over investing and expecting them to fight for 2 rounds. 

I'm going to toy with them and see where it goes. I think the nice thing is the whips, bloodsecrator and killing frenzy are units that will survive after the readers are gone and buff the second wave. 

[Reuben Parker]

18 minutes ago, ledha said:

because of their base, you won't have more bloodreavers than bloodwarriors (for example) or bloodletters in contact, so they will barely hit better while dying as soon as someone watch them funny. Don't whip them when you can whip bloodwarriors, skullreapers or wrathmongers

Indeed they don’t hit as hard but they have two advantages 

1) cheaper 

2) the fastest of the 3 especially in goretide with a 27” average threat range. Blood warriors can get close to that with 24” but will have lower damage output

as such they can have a role in a larger buffed squad as something that can shoot across the board and challenge light to medium units. 

In no way am I suggesting them as a main line battle unit but they can serve other roles than pure screen. 

[Tizianolol]

Guys I’m new to khorne, I love the idea to play a competitive list with 3 bloodthirsters ( my favourite models too) . Reading in this forum i found thread about bloodthirsters  that attack first and pile twice. Can you explain me how that is possible? Thx all

Edited May 2, 2019 by Tizianolol

[Reuben Parker]

30 minutes ago, Tizianolol said:

Guys I’m new to khorne, I love the idea to play a competitive list with 3 bloodthirsters ( my favourite models too) . Reading in this forum i found thread about bloodthirsters  that attack first and pile twice. Can you explain me how that is possible? Thx all

Well with double pile in you use the reapers slaughterhost and use their command ability. 

They all get to fight in a row due to the new Bloodthirster battalion. 

Also if your using a Bloodthirster of unfettered fury you can use his command ability to pile in from 6” away and all the shenanigans that allows. 

 

[Xasz]

9 hours ago, Reuben Parker said:

Wholly within 16 of bloodsecrator is easy at that point they’re on 3 attacks and with a single whip re roll all fail wounds so they can be ok. Not great but decent so there is some non screening uses for them.

They'll never hit back and even if they do the damage output is not that threatening.

Big units of Reavers might seem nice on paper, especially with all the other hordes running around, but they lack the fundamentals of an effective blob unit (recursiveness or reasonable saves, reach, battleshock resistance...).

Personally, I deem them somewhat of a noob-trap (all the fluff about hordes of Reavers rushing across the battlefield is not helping...), if you expect anything more of them  than being chaff (at which they excel at), you'll be sorely disappointed.

[Killax]

18 minutes ago, Xasz said:

They'll never hit back and even if they do the damage output is not that threatening.

Big units of Reavers might seem nice on paper, especially with all the other hordes running around, but they lack the fundamentals of an effective blob unit (recursiveness or reasonable saves, reach, battleshock resistance...).

Personally, I deem them somewhat of a noob-trap (all the fluff about hordes of Reavers rushing across the battlefield is not helping...), if you expect anything more of them  than being chaff (at which they excel at), you'll be sorely disappointed.

To be fair, I agree completely with you. For those who like Reavers, that's all fine, but I can't see them as anything more as a body wall, and not a terribly effective one at that either. With the Goretide you can at least park them in annoying spots, but that's about it. Especially the lack of Battleshock Resistance is what annoys me. Basically they are the one unit who really is hurt the most by the Bloodsecrator's loss of Battleshock Immunity bubble. At 70 points per 10, I feel Bloodreavers could have gained the ability to either become Battleshock Immume at 20+ or be Battleshock Immume when in range of the Totem. Either would have made more sence as to what they do now.

So far the most competitive results I've seen still have been Tyrants of Blood Battallion and for Mortals one of the three Battalions that can include quite a lot of units. The hammer and anvil approach still seems to work the best there. While initially I wanted to add a Bloodthirster to such Mortal armies, I now see that usually it's better to invest more into either Skullreapers for the hammer or Skullcrushers for the anvil. It's neat. 

Adding Bloodreavers for me is only really done if a Battalion would require it.

 

[Tizianolol]

@Reuben Parker can I use reapers command ability with my exalted bloodthirster myself , or I have to use it to another bloodthirster. Basically I’m plannimg to play unfettered fury bloodthirster and exalted one. Only 2 bloodthirster , and make my exalted  one pile twice 6”. Is this possible?:)

[Kaz]

3 hours ago, Killax said:

To be fair, I agree completely with you. For those who like Reavers, that's all fine, but I can't see them as anything more as a body wall, and not a terribly effective one at that either. With the Goretide you can at least park them in annoying spots, but that's about it. Especially the lack of Battleshock Resistance is what annoys me. Basically they are the one unit who really is hurt the most by the Bloodsecrator's loss of Battleshock Immunity bubble. At 70 points per 10, I feel Bloodreavers could have gained the ability to either become Battleshock Immume at 20+ or be Battleshock Immume when in range of the Totem. Either would have made more sence as to what they do now.

So far the most competitive results I've seen still have been Tyrants of Blood Battallion and for Mortals one of the three Battalions that can include quite a lot of units. The hammer and anvil approach still seems to work the best there. While initially I wanted to add a Bloodthirster to such Mortal armies, I now see that usually it's better to invest more into either Skullreapers for the hammer or Skullcrushers for the anvil. It's neat. 

Adding Bloodreavers for me is only really done if a Battalion would require it.

 

Yep, I agree with this assessment. It's unfortunate, and the nerf to battleshock immunity with secrator only hurts the bloodreavers more... Stuff like Clanrats or Grots are perfect horde units, because of their 25mm base, and they are far more durable, thanks to their shields. Even Ungors (With shields) are tougher than Bloodreavers. Bloodreavers also suffer from a very bad statline. The only thing worth consideration is their Meatripper axes, for the rend. Even then, to make them viable requires a LOT of work and buffing. Killing Frenzy, Whipped to Fury, Bloodsecrator, Warshrine, all of this would make a reaver blob scary, but then, they're gonna die super fast, wasting all those buffs. And Blood Warriors exist, who are more durable, and No Respite means one can't simply alpha strike them off the table.

On that note, @Killaxwhat are your current thoughts on Skullcrushers? Last time, like a while back, I remember you felt Skullcrushers were too expensive for their points. If you use them as an anvil, do you use them as a 6 model unit, or 3 models in a unit? Sorry for the random question, just curious because of your change in opinion.

However, despite how much Bloodreavers are bad, they're still nice to have in battalions. @kahadinfeel free to use them in a double Dark Feast list, it might be interesting to see what happens if you've got 80+ bloodreavers bearing down on someone. While they die fast, they can be played MSU to rack up blood tithe, and buffed via aura abilities (Dark feast bonus, secrator, aspiring deathbringer, etc). Having double Bloodstokers would do wonders to ensure as many reavers have the whipped buff as possible.

Even so, I still feel Bloodreavers should a bit cheaper.

[kahadin]

edit for length and less feeling

I agree reavers are bad and cannot hold. However I think the math has changed with refill wounds. You can get 30-40 3+ 4+ reroll -1 rend attacks for 70 points on a throw away unit. If you charge with them on your turn they should put out more than 70 points of damage. More then the used to do. 

The idea is to use them for something. All the buffs you use on them can be used on your slow skullreapers later.

edit 2: I am Not suggesting dark feast, I am suggesting that there may be a way to get use out of reavers. Right now they are useless. I use chaos warhounds to screen, they cover way more board space for only a few more points.

 

Edited May 2, 2019 by kahadin

[Smashin']

Hi, I have no experience with Khorne but I am feeling a temptation to build myself a juggernaut army and throw Skarbrand in for brutal fun. I've come up with the below list and I'm not sure if it's any good. 

Some questions I have: Is it better to have multiple small units of Skullcrushers? 3 units of 6? or a mix of different sized units as shown below? I couldn't think of anything to fill the 120 pt gap so I chucked in Magores Fiends, let me know if you think there's a better alternative? Is it worth having the Slaughterpriest? 

Leaders

Lord of Khorne on Juggernaut - General - (160)
Trait - Bloodsworn
Artifact - Mark of the Destroyer

Skarbrand - (400)

Slaughterpriest - (100)
Artifact - The Brazen Rune

Battleline

Mighty Skullcrushers x6 - (360)

Mighty Skullcrushers x6 - (360)

Mighty Skullcrushers x3 - (180)

Mighty Skullcrushers x3 - (180)

Other

Magore's Fiends - (80)

Riptooth - (40)

Warscroll Battalion

Brass Stampede - (140)

Total Points - 2000

I haven't invested in any models and won't do so until I'm happy with how the list looks so any feedback on this is greatly appreciated, thanks!  

[Reuben Parker]

7 hours ago, Tizianolol said:

@Reuben Parker can I use reapers command ability with my exalted bloodthirster myself , or I have to use it to another bloodthirster. Basically I’m plannimg to play unfettered fury bloodthirster and exalted one. Only 2 bloodthirster , and make my exalted  one pile twice 6”. Is this possible?:)

They can use it on themselves or another daemon unit in range it’s your choice. 

Doesnt fly but now skarbrand in reapers host has insane damage output and really changes how your opponent plays. 

[Reuben Parker]

3 hours ago, kahadin said:

edit for length and less feeling

I agree reavers are bad and cannot hold. However I think the math has changed with refill wounds. You can get 30-40 3+ 4+ reroll -1 rend attacks for 70 points on a throw away unit. If you charge with them on your turn they should put out more than 70 points of damage. More then the used to do. 

The idea is to use them for something. All the buffs you use on them can be used on your slow skullreapers later.

edit 2: I am Not suggesting dark feast, I am suggesting that there may be a way to get use out of reavers. Right now they are useless. I use chaos warhounds to screen, they cover way more board space for only a few more points.

 

Even if not going for large units I actually think dark feast is pretty worth it now. 

110 points gets you at minimum 5 drops down to 1 there’s no tax units in it for most lists that want reaver screens, priest and stoker. Plus it can help to get your screens upto higher damage output for as you mention early suicide style charges. I always think most battalions now due to CP give around 100 points of value without any special rules (CP, artifact and drop reduction) as long as the list is taking advantage of those 3 things and units aren’t a tax most 100 odd point battalions are very playable. 

[kahadin]

35 minutes ago, Smashin' said:

Hi, I have no experience with Khorne but I am feeling a temptation to build myself a juggernaut army and throw Skarbrand in for brutal fun. I've come up with the below list and I'm not sure if it's any good. 

Some questions I have: Is it better to have multiple small units of Skullcrushers? 3 units of 6? or a mix of different sized units as shown below? I couldn't think of anything to fill the 120 pt gap so I chucked in Magores Fiends, let me know if you think there's a better alternative? Is it worth having the Slaughterpriest? 

Leaders

Lord of Khorne on Juggernaut - General - (160)
Trait - Bloodsworn
Artifact - Mark of the Destroyer

Skarbrand - (400)

Slaughterpriest - (100)
Artifact - The Brazen Rune

Battleline

Mighty Skullcrushers x6 - (360)

Mighty Skullcrushers x6 - (360)

Mighty Skullcrushers x3 - (180)

Mighty Skullcrushers x3 - (180)

Other

Magore's Fiends - (80)

Riptooth - (40)

Warscroll Battalion

Brass Stampede - (140)

Total Points - 2000

I haven't invested in any models and won't do so until I'm happy with how the list looks so any feedback on this is greatly appreciated, thanks!  

I think that's more than $800 of minis lol. 

I think that you need a very empty table to maneuver all those big models. I'm not sure of your aos experience, but (as dumb as this sounds) try cutting out all your based in paper and try shuffling them around a wargame table keeping "1 coherency in the units. Try putting up some other "enemy" units to charge. If you feel like you have room to maneuver and get good charges in then go for it. I'm worried you have too much mass though. 

[phizzco]

Command points might be more worth it than magores

[Reuben Parker]

I would probably drop magores and 3 crushers so have 300 points. 

Bloodsecrator 

bloodstoker 

10 reavers 

then even playing just skarbrand I would probably play reapers host as him with double pile in really shores up any Melee matchup whilst the crushers are great vs shooting / magic lists. Would also love a way to squeeze a unit of wrathmongers in. 

[Smashin']

3 minutes ago, kahadin said:

I think that's more than $800 of minis lol. 

I think that you need a very empty table to maneuver all those big models. I'm not sure of your aos experience, but (as dumb as this sounds) try cutting out all your based in paper and try shuffling them around a wargame table keeping "1 coherency in the units. Try putting up some other "enemy" units to charge. If you feel like you have room to maneuver and get good charges in then go for it. I'm worried you have too much mass though. 

Thanks for the suggestion, I do share that concern. I have an Ironjawz collection with several Gore Gruntas (same size base) so will use those to test this. 

 

2 minutes ago, phizzco said:

Command points might be more worth it than magores

I don't think I'd have much use for extra command points as only one hero has a command ability and inspiring presence shouldn't be needed, forward to victory will be good so I'll consider it thanks. I might rather have a unit to hold an objective whilst the juggernauts do their thing? Or a judgement of khorne or two?

[Smashin']

5 minutes ago, Reuben Parker said:

I would probably drop magores and 3 crushers so have 300 points. 

Bloodsecrator 

bloodstoker 

10 reavers 

then even playing just skarbrand I would probably play reapers host as him with double pile in really shores up any Melee matchup whilst the crushers are great vs shooting / magic lists. Would also love a way to squeeze a unit of wrathmongers in. 

I can see how that would work out well as a list but it does become more expensive this way as I'll have 3 crushers left over as they come in a box of 6 plus getting that start collecting set ontop of it whilst only knocking the cheap price of Magore's off. 

Wouldn't I need to have a Daemon as my general to use that reapers host ability? that would take out crushers as battleline which is the whole point of my list. It's obviously very good but I don't want to sacrifice that. If I'm mistaken that would be fantastic.

[Reuben Parker]

27 minutes ago, Smashin' said:

I can see how that would work out well as a list but it does become more expensive this way as I'll have 3 crushers left over as they come in a box of 6 plus getting that start collecting set ontop of it whilst only knocking the cheap price of Magore's off. 

Wouldn't I need to have a Daemon as my general to use that reapers host ability? that would take out crushers as battleline which is the whole point of my list. It's obviously very good but I don't want to sacrifice that. If I'm mistaken that would be fantastic.

As far as I’m aware you can have a mortal General in reapers same as a daemon General in goretide. 

Then any hero can use the command ability. So the jugger lord is your general but skarbrand can still use a CP to pile in twice. Also any bloodthirster you summoned via bloodtithe would also get the reapers host abilities. 

[Sleboda]

How are people keeping their Bloodsecrator alive?

[Tizianolol]

Skarbrand can use a command ability? He is an hero but he hasn’t  a cammand ability. Can he use reapers command ability? 

Edited May 2, 2019 by Tizianolol

[Darksteve]

1 hour ago, Sleboda said:

How are people keeping their Bloodsecrator alive?

I've had a fair bit of luck in just giving him gryph feather charm. In non-host lists I've made I also make him the general and give him the new Beserker lord trait.

49 minutes ago, Tizianolol said:

Skarbrand can use a command ability? He is an hero but he hasn’t  a cammand ability. Can he use reapers command ability? 

All the hero's in the host with the keyword can use it. As Skarbrand is a hero and does not already have a host keyword he gains the keyword and can use the ability.

[Sleboda]

22 minutes ago, Darksteve said:

I've had a fair bit of luck in just giving him gryph feather charm

Makes sense. In my lists I get two items. One is the +1A sword for my Insensate general, and the other is the banner of Wrath for the Bloodsecrator. That's been leaving him really vulnerable to shooting.

[Darksteve]

1 minute ago, Sleboda said:

Makes sense. In my lists I get two items. One is the +1A sword for my Insensate general, and the other is the banner of Wrath for the Bloodsecrator. That's been leaving him really vulnerable to shooting.

I tend to like Amberglaive on IR BT myself

[Sleboda]

1 minute ago, Darksteve said:

I tend to like Amberglaive on IR BT myself

What's that one do again?