AoS 2 - Ironjawz Discussion

[Malakree]

1 hour ago, Slandible said:

I've gone 3-0 now since the changes.  My only downside is that  Ardfist feels mandatory in the meta of summoning.   Boyz are so incredibly cost effective now and have huge bravery under Bloodtoofs and the ability to bring them all back is essential. 

My last game it was going the old way.  I was not winning the attrition war vs Slaneesh and by end of top of 3, I had no infantry left on the board and would normally have been the end.  But bottom of 3 bring back 50 boyz and Hand of Gork a large squad across the table and suddenly back in it an ahead on attrition.  

I want to try some other lists out too, but boyz spam feels like the only way to compete with the meta until the new book happens. 

Ardfist in bloodtoofs?

[Gaz Taylor]

+++ Mod Hat On +++

I’ve just had to remove a couple of posts but I want to make it clear - we do not want any form of name calling here on TGA. This is a place to enjoy chatting about the hobby, not insult each other

[Jabbuk]

On 6/22/2018 at 4:38 AM, Mortaal said:

Hello all, 

Been following this forum for a while and as AoS2 is almost upon us I thought I would share my bloodtoof army!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The current list has 20 points to spare for the Soulsnare Shackles or Malevolent Maelstrom, which one would you guys think will benefit the army better, seeing its all footslog brutes.

let me know!

Mark

Hi everyone, I've been reading this forum for the past month or so as I recently started an Ironjawz army and wanted some guidance. Just thought I'd post and congratulate @Mortaal for his army. I gotta say this is the best looking and best thematic IJ army I've ever seen. It really inspires me to finish painting mine. So far I have close to 500 points. I had a question though as you seemed to have bashed a few units with different getups which I find really cool. I notice that you did a mix between Gordrak and a MBoMK. Do you play him as Gordrak or as a MBoMK? I am wondering because I really like some features on both characters and would like to take "the best" setup but still play him as MBoMK. Anyways, if you could answer me that'd be great and thanks everyone for this excellent content. It's really motivating 

[Slandible]

4 hours ago, Malakree said:

Ardfist in bloodtoofs?

Ya. toss in a Weirdboy to Hand a big unit around the board, Fungoid for realm spells and CP generator, and Gruntas usually as filler.  

[Malakree]

15 minutes ago, Slandible said:

Ya. toss in a Weirdboy to Hand a big unit around the board, Fungoid for realm spells and CP generator, and Gruntas usually as filler.  

So uh, bloodtoofs requires a max sized ironfist, did they change it in the latest gbh? Combined with the mandatory cabbage you're at ~1360 points before you even start on the ardfist.

[Slandible]

16 minutes ago, Malakree said:

So uh, bloodtoofs requires a max sized ironfist, did they change it in the latest gbh? Combined with the mandatory cabbage you're at ~1360 points before you even start on the ardfist.

Ahh yes, you are correct.  I thought it was any regular battalion.  Guess I got used to Ironfist being the only good battalion for so long. 

[Aelfric]

6 hours ago, Luzgurbel said:

Played yesterday against FeC in a small 1000 points challenge. Most frustrated game ver played. I feel rather useless just because I can't stop in any way the King in Terror attacking first and attacking twice even being charged... With no effort at all from my rival.

Hopefully the FAQ and points changes for the latest Battletomes, incl FEC, coming in July will resolve this issue.  The only other way I can think of is to take a Fungoid and the Arachnacauldron Endless Spell, which will give you access to "Itchy Nuisance" - this makes whoever you cast it on strike last regardless of when they're supposed to strike.  It's 140 points for both and spells aren't automatic, but at least it gives you a shot.  The cauldron gives a +1 to casting and also grants access to the other spells in the Moonclan lore, so it has other options.

[Sangfroid]

43 minutes ago, Aelfric said:

Hopefully the FAQ and points changes for the latest Battletomes, incl FEC, coming in July will resolve this issue.  The only other way I can think of is to take a Fungoid and the Arachnacauldron Endless Spell, which will give you access to "Itchy Nuisance" - this makes whoever you cast it on strike last regardless of when they're supposed to strike.  It's 140 points for both and spells aren't automatic, but at least it gives you a shot.  The cauldron gives a +1 to casting and also grants access to the other spells in the Moonclan lore, so it has other options.

Also doppelgänger cloak means you can charge him with a megaboss or Mawkrusha, activate the cloak so he cannot fight you unit you have fought him, he then has to activate at the start of the combat phase (so fights but fights nothing assuming you don’t have anything else in range. Then you hit him in the combat phase proper he can then fight back but hopefully is dead so at least he is dealt with.

[Planar]

9 hours ago, Aelfric said:

Hopefully the FAQ and points changes for the latest Battletomes, incl FEC, coming in July will resolve this issue.  The only other way I can think of is to take a Fungoid and the Arachnacauldron Endless Spell, which will give you access to "Itchy Nuisance" - this makes whoever you cast it on strike last regardless of when they're supposed to strike.  It's 140 points for both and spells aren't automatic, but at least it gives you a shot.  The cauldron gives a +1 to casting and also grants access to the other spells in the Moonclan lore, so it has other options.

Can you please explain that a bit more? I was under the impression take you cannot use Gloomspite spells when running an Ironjawz allegiance army. 

Thanks

[novakai]

12 minutes ago, Planar said:

Can you please explain that a bit more? I was under the impression take you cannot use Gloomspite spells when running an Ironjawz allegiance army. 

Thanks

you can circumvent the rule by using the Arachnacauldron endless spell which allows an allied Gloomspite wizard to use all the spells in the Moonclan lore despite being in a different allegiance.

[Planar]

22 minutes ago, novakai said:

you can circumvent the rule by using the Arachnacauldron endless spell which allows an allied Gloomspite wizard to use all the spells in the Moonclan lore despite being in a different allegiance.

Hmmm but still Arachnacauldron is a Gloomspite endless spell. Is it allowed for a git wizard allied to Ironjawz cast Gloomspite endless spells?

[tolstedt]

4 hours ago, Planar said:

Hmmm but still Arachnacauldron is a Gloomspite endless spell. Is it allowed for a git wizard allied to Ironjawz cast Gloomspite endless spells?

Yes it is allowed.

[Blitzel]

Question; does the weirdfist improved the range of the bash 'em lads! Spell? 

Would be fun to see and take it effect on 2x 30 'ardboyz 😄

[Malakree]

20 minutes ago, Blitzel said:

Question; does the weirdfist improved the range of the bash 'em lads! Spell? 

Would be fun to see and take it effect on 2x 30 'ardboyz 😄

Weirdfist explicitly states "foot of Gork, green puke and arcane bolt" so no.

[Rock Lobster]

21 hours ago, Gaz Taylor said:

+++ Mod Hat On +++

I’ve just had to remove a couple of posts but I want to make it clear - we do not want any form of name calling here on TGA. This is a place to enjoy chatting about the hobby, not insult each other

I didn’t see the original post but unfortunate to see name calling came up. Been on this thread a long time and it has always been great and cordial. 

Ironjawz is da politest!

[Planar]

3 hours ago, tolstedt said:

Yes it is allowed.

Sorry to insist but can you indicate where is this stated? I have searched both on Core Rules, Malign sorcery and the Gloomspite Gits tome but cannot find anywhere stating that faction endless spells are somehow different from faction spell lores 

Thanks

[Scurvydog]

On 6/23/2019 at 4:25 PM, Luzgurbel said:

Played yesterday against FeC in a small 1000 points challenge. Most frustrated game ver played. I feel rather useless just because I can't stop in any way the King in Terror attacking first and attacking twice even being charged... With no effort at all from my rival.

I don't know how much you can plan ahead of knowing to face FeC, but a good idea there would be to get a Mawkrusha, then combo him with additional mortal wounds or reroll wounds on the charge and give him the doppelganger cloak realm artifact. 

With mighty destroyers being a sure command ability, you can fly the MK 24" so a charge first should be easy in most cases, this is then average 4 mortal wounds from destructive bulk and then you are also sure to get some hits in first. On average with the reroll to wound on charge, you will put 12 damage on him, and along with the 4 mortal wounds average charge, odds are good you will simply destroy him like this.

It takes some work, but if you pull that of, you basically won the game at that point.

 

23 hours ago, Shankelton said:

I will say, I'm not super pumped about ard boyz getting even more cost efficient and dominant over brutes. Definitely solved a playability issue, but I've always hated the models haha. Those metal mittens just kinda clash with the whole new line of minis that are the ironjawz!

I very much agree here, the brutes are the real face of the ironjawz, in the lore they ARE the ironjawz, while the ardboyz might as well be called fanboyz tagging along. Hopefully a new book will differentiate them more. Still not like they made the brutes worse, but with their current rules 160 pts would have been a better fit.

I don't like just reducing points in the long run though, as the Ironjawz should be elite and not move towards even more horde just because of poor warscroll balance, there are other greenskinz to play for hordes.

[Aelfric]

2 hours ago, Planar said:

Sorry to insist but can you indicate where is this stated? I have searched both on Core Rules, Malign sorcery and the Gloomspite Gits tome but cannot find anywhere stating that faction endless spells are somehow different from faction spell lores 

Thanks

The Warscroll for Scrapscuttle's Arachnacauldron endless spell states that it can only be cast by a Gloomspite Gitz Wizard - Fungoids have these keywords. Endless spell warscrolls have no allegiance keywords, therefore the only restriction is who is allowed to cast it.  So long as you have a wizard who can cast it in your army and you pay the points for the endless spell, you are fine.  In addition, because endless spells have no allegiance keyword they do not count towards your Allies points allowance.

You can take any endless spell you like, but without the right wizard to cast it, it would be useless.

Fortunately, 1 or 2 Fungoids in an Ironjawz army are pretty useful for CP generation anyway, so its really only a 50 point outlay.

[Planar]

11 hours ago, Aelfric said:

The Warscroll for Scrapscuttle's Arachnacauldron endless spell states that it can only be cast by a Gloomspite Gitz Wizard - Fungoids have these keywords. Endless spell warscrolls have no allegiance keywords, therefore the only restriction is who is allowed to cast it.  So long as you have a wizard who can cast it in your army and you pay the points for the endless spell, you are fine.  In addition, because endless spells have no allegiance keyword they do not count towards your Allies points allowance.

You can take any endless spell you like, but without the right wizard to cast it, it would be useless.

Fortunately, 1 or 2 Fungoids in an Ironjawz army are pretty useful for CP generation anyway, so its really only a 50 point outlay.

That makes perfect sense. Thanks for explaining in detail!

[VonSmall]

So I've come up with the below list. Some expanded thoughts listed as well below it:

Allegiance: Ironjawz
Mortal Realm: Ulgu

Leaders
Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (420)
- General
- Choppa and Rip-tooth fist
- Trait: Prophet of the Waaagh!  
- Artefact: Doppelganger Cloak 
Orruk Warchanter (80)
- Artefact: The Boss Skewer  
Orruk Weirdnob Shaman (120)
- Artefact: Talisman of the Watcher 
- Spell: Da Great Big Green Hand of Gork
Fungoid Cave-Shaman (90)

Battleline
30 x Orruk Ardboys (420)
10 x Orruk Ardboys (140)
3 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (140)
3 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (140)
3 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (140)

Battalions
Bloodtoofs (80)
Ironfist (160)

Total: 1980 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 3
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 155
 

General Idea

The list is a 2 drop so in many scenarios will get the choice of T1 or not. There are two basic tactics with the list (other than the mob their lines with Ard boys to secure the early win which is being discussed a lot).

The main reason for taking Bloodtoofs is actually the 1 unit counting as 2 as the army can become spread out early on. The extra +1 charge and bravery is a bonus for long game survival.

The army starts with 3CP + 1 on T1 with a potential 5th from the Fungoid so lots to burn early on.

Take First Turn aka "Go First , Go Aggressive, Go Waaagh!"

Typically against an opponent who hasn't deployed lots of screens or has put their keystone character front and centre this is a 'Cut the head off' approach.

Essentially Pop 2-3 Waaaghs off from the start, command ability the Krusha up 12" ready for a charge into the key thing. Teleport the big block up in a fighty formation. At least one unit of GGs in the Ironfist use their extra move to get within 15" of the Mighty Waaagh and suddenly you count as having 6 units in range with the ability to re-roll the dice for extra 2 attacks.

Take Second Turn aka "Slow & Steady Ladz"

If your opponent has no huge threat potential, feel free to go second. Deploy the GG/Ard Boyz in blocking formation with the other units ready to support/teleport where needed or where a hole opens up (Talisman of the Watcher is useful here). This may potentially open up some sneaky opportunities for sneaky teleports of small units behind enemy lines to take out soft targets and/or grab an objective for a turn.

 

[Malakree]

@VonSmall I'm torn, the doppelganger is obviously important for trying to face down the gristlgheist but the fact it doesn't work in the opponents turn (he activates before you can trigger it) makes it way weaker with the same issue for the talisman of the watcher, they don't work in the activation wars.

On the other hand you could go for hysh grabing the classic aetherquartz broach, it massively increases your threat potential and you could still spend a command point to get the mystic shield anyway. It also opens up the mirrored curiass option for your cabbage to give him some mw protection.

[Uffe]

3 hours ago, VonSmall said:

The army starts with 3CP + 1 on T1 with a potential 5th from the Fungoid so lots to burn early on.
 

3CP at start what do i miss? 2 from battallions and last one is?

[EMMachine]

43 minutes ago, Uffe said:

3CP at start what do i miss? 2 from battallions and last one is?

@VonSmall has added a Command Point for 50 Points. With the changes to Pitched Battle 2019 you now buy a command point for 50. The Warscrollbuilder counts adds the 50 Points and 1 Command Point but doesn't mention it in the list itself. Without the Command Point the list above would have 1930 Points.

Edited June 25, 2019 by EMMachine

[Luzgurbel]

Is the Aetherquartz Brooch no longer worth?

[VonSmall]

4 hours ago, Malakree said:

@VonSmall I'm torn, the doppelganger is obviously important for trying to face down the gristlgheist but the fact it doesn't work in the opponents turn (he activates before you can trigger it) makes it way weaker with the same issue for the talisman of the watcher, they don't work in the activation wars.

On the other hand you could go for hysh grabing the classic aetherquartz broach, it massively increases your threat potential and you could still spend a command point to get the mystic shield anyway. It also opens up the mirrored curiass option for your cabbage to give him some mw protection.

The wording for the Doppleganger cloak isn't that it makes the opponent strike last though...it's that the bearer can't be targeted untl he has attacked.

Talisman works at the start of the combat phase - it doesn't specifiy your turn.