AoS 2 - Ironjawz Discussion

[Vasshpit]

Whispers on the rumor winds of the past suggested a release comparable to the size of wave one. 

As a customer and fan, I'd be more than disappointed if some of these above ideas are all that happen....

Ironjawz really deserve and need more than just another set of endless spells that sit on a shelf, a few new spells to which players only use one, and a terrain piece.  Im hoping for several waaagh totems / banners that increase bravery, movement, some kind of debuff.

Its hinted and stated time and time again that Ironjawz are actually pretty cunning and not just "hulk smash" so im hoping GW follow this course of design suggestion into wave 2 of da Jawz with new units that open up more tactical depth. 

 

[Skabnoze]

2 hours ago, Vasshpit said:

Whispers on the rumor winds of the past suggested a release comparable to the size of wave one. 

As a customer and fan, I'd be more than disappointed if some of these above ideas are all that happen....

Ironjawz really deserve and need more than just another set of endless spells that sit on a shelf, a few new spells to which players only use one, and a terrain piece.  Im hoping for several waaagh totems / banners that increase bravery, movement, some kind of debuff.

Its hinted and stated time and time again that Ironjawz are actually pretty cunning and not just "hulk smash" so im hoping GW follow this course of design suggestion into wave 2 of da Jawz with new units that open up more tactical depth. 

 

I agree, but I personally thought that Skaven deserved a large model release wave more than most other factions as they are a really unique faction within Warhammer and GW decided that right now all they need is a good book.  And honestly, it seems like the majority of Skaven players are pretty happy with the quality of the book that they got.  I don't think you can find anyone that would turn down new models for their favorite factions or be somewhat disappointed when a minimal book-only release comes along.  But those can still be good releases.

I was disappointed with the Skaven release being book only but I still think the faction appears to be in a much better place than it previously was.  For both Ironjawz and Bonesplitterz I would like to see their ranges expanded, but I will also admit that expanding some existing kits into multiple options and releasing an updated book can do a whole lot of good for the factions even if that is the only thing that happens.  Although for Bonesplitterz they really can't stretch the existing boxes any more than they already have - but simply taking the warscrolls and army organization back to the drawing board could do a whole lot of good for the faction.

[Vasshpit]

@Skabnoze 

Oh I'd be happy with anything that improved upon Jawz as well.  Even if just new rules, spell lore, endless (shelf) spells 😄, krusha mount traits, etc.  But Ironjawz have nowhere near the amount of options available to them that Rats do... 

Just my 2 cents but keep our green bare azzed breathren unto themselves and give Ironjawz the product support they deserve. 

Edit: I did feel sorry for rat fans at the lack of new/updated toys... 😕

Edited February 26, 2019 by Vasshpit

[novakai]

well since they sort of phased out the Greenskinz, GW probably should least expand their remaining Ork line up for AoS since it probably one of their more iconic army in Warhammer in general (Skaven is more unique but GW greenskinz and Ork are also very iconic to their setting and wargaming)

 

[Skabnoze]

32 minutes ago, Vasshpit said:

Just my 2 cents but keep our green bare azzed breathren unto themselves and give Ironjawz the product support they deserve. 

I don't want them mixed in with Ironjawz either.  I could understand if GW wanted to bring back some version of common orc greenskinz and smush them in with Ironjawz into a combined tome.  But I don't think I would want to see Bonesplitterz in there and would prefer they remained as their own distinct faction.  I was simply mentioning that I would like to see Bonesplitterz updated as well as Ironjawz.

32 minutes ago, Vasshpit said:

@Skabnoze 

Oh I'd be happy with anything that improved upon Jawz as well.  Even if just new rules, spell lore, endless (shelf) spells 😄, krusha mount traits, etc.  But Ironjawz have nowhere near the amount of options available to them that Rats do... 

Edit: I did feel sorry for rat fans at the lack of new/updated toys... 😕

I agree that the Ironjawz range is small.  The Flesh Eaters range is small also and they only added a single new model that was not something spun out of existing kits.  I would prefer to see brand new models for Ironjawz also - but just analyzing the sprues it appears that GW has room to work with if they want to make new warscroll options simply from already existing boxes.  That sort of expansion is not necessarily my preference, but I can deal with it if that is the route they choose to go and the book they release is a quality product.

My main point is simply that what factions "deserve and need" updates is completely subjective and the only people that ultimately get to decide that are the people at GW.  Fans of every faction will argue that their chosen faction are the ones that deserve it more than the others.  So far with Age of Sigmar the developers have done a good enough job with the various methods of expanding the game by repurposing old models, separating units based upon equipment, or creating all new models that they have gained enough trust from me that whatever route they choose is likely to at least result in a better state than where something sits right now. 

Ideally I would like every old faction to get the treatment that Gloomspite Gitz received since that release was fantastic from top to bottom.  But given that Skaven did not get that sort of treatment, and that Flesh Eaters had their existing kits expanded even further, it seems obvious that book/spells/terrain releases are still going to happen.  I hope that Ironjawz get new units, but if we compare them to other AoS-only factions from a similar time I think the Fyreslayers are in a worse place in regards to models.  The Ironjawz range is small, but it is quite good and the units all have unique silhouettes that can still be separated a bit more.  Even the MawCrusha model is designed in a generic pose that does not look out of place when you bring multiples.  The Fyreslayers have a big problem with the fact that their entire range blends together visually - and the Magmadroth is posed in such a way that it does not look good when taken in multiples.  If I were in charge of the design studio and tasked with updating both of those battletomes but I was only given resources to add new model kits to one of them I would probably use the new models to solve the issues with Fyreslayers and split up the existing Ironjawz kit to make more unit diversity - even though I am a much bigger personal fan of Orcs & Goblins.  But hopefully the design team has enough resources to work with that they do not need to make that sort of choice.

But in the end, I just want more interesting build options for Ironjawz and if GW manages to deliver that then I expect I can deal with however they manage to achieve it.

[Skabnoze]

19 minutes ago, novakai said:

well since they sort of phased out the Greenskinz, GW probably should least expand their remaining Ork line up for AoS since it probably one of their more iconic army in Warhammer in general (Skaven is more unique but GW greenskinz and Ork are also very iconic to their setting and wargaming)

 

Yes, the GW version of Orcs is quite a unique thing in gaming (or was until Warcraft).  Orcs have been around as long as the genre has been in popular fiction and gaming - but GWs twist on the race has been quite unique.  As much as I like both Ironjawz and Bonesplitterz it would be a shame to see the Greenskinz completely retired from Warhammer.  I would support a combined battletome with Ironjawz as an elite leader faction and Greenskinz making up the numberless horde as long as it was structured so that they could each be played individually or mixed together as a larger force (which seems to be the design philosophy behind all of the combined allegiances tomes).

[Malakithe]

4 hours ago, Vasshpit said:

Whispers on the rumor winds of the past suggested a release comparable to the size of wave one. 

As a customer and fan, I'd be more than disappointed if some of these above ideas are all that happen....

Ironjawz really deserve and need more than just another set of endless spells that sit on a shelf, a few new spells to which players only use one, and a terrain piece.  Im hoping for several waaagh totems / banners that increase bravery, movement, some kind of debuff.

Its hinted and stated time and time again that Ironjawz are actually pretty cunning and not just "hulk smash" so im hoping GW follow this course of design suggestion into wave 2 of da Jawz with new units that open up more tactical depth. 

 

My absolute fav factions are Ironjawz and Fyreslayers. Ive felt for a long time they are both in dire need of almost the same stuff. Both factions need complete warscroll and battalion reworks and rewording and additional units 

[Warboss Gorbolg]

Would really like to see an Ardboys hero and a GG Weirdnob/Boss dual kit. Along with a warscroll rewrite for different weapon loadouts for GG and Brutes and that might be just enough units for me.

[Skabnoze]

2 hours ago, Warboss Gorbolg said:

Would really like to see an Ardboys hero and a GG Weirdnob/Boss dual kit. Along with a warscroll rewrite for different weapon loadouts for GG and Brutes and that might be just enough units for me.

I really want some Ardboys heroes as well.  I also would not mind if they split the Ardboys box into a couple of units based on weapon armament.  I liked in the last couple versions of warhammer when the unit was armed to the teeth and could swap weapons each turn.  But they have since done away with that and simply allow you to mix weapons.  It can be interesting trying to figure out the best choice of weapons within the unit, but I would not really lose any sleep if they just pulled the options out into their own distinct units and then tweaked stats and abilities to make the various options interesting.  

[PlasticCraic]

10 hours ago, Vasshpit said:

Its hinted and stated time and time again that Ironjawz are actually pretty cunning and not just "hulk smash" so im hoping GW follow this course of design suggestion into wave 2 of da Jawz with new units that open up more tactical depth. 

There's a cool mission in the IJ Battletome that revolves around Kunnin' Tricks...well worth a play through for anyone who hasn't done so. 

There's a neat mini game at the start where you and your opponent are trying to bluff each other,

[mikethefish]

8 hours ago, Skabnoze said:

I really want some Ardboys heroes as well.  I also would not mind if they split the Ardboys box into a couple of units based on weapon armament.  I liked in the last couple versions of warhammer when the unit was armed to the teeth and could swap weapons each turn.  But they have since done away with that and simply allow you to mix weapons.  It can be interesting trying to figure out the best choice of weapons within the unit, but I would not really lose any sleep if they just pulled the options out into their own distinct units and then tweaked stats and abilities to make the various options interesting.  

The main problem with this concept is that there are not enough weapons in one kit to equip all the Ardboyz with a single weapon type - which would be necessary for a kit, if you wanted to split the Ardboyz into different units by weapon type

[Luzgurbel]

The Ardboys' sprue is as old as the Hell...

[Warfiend]

I just had the greatest idea, what we need is a unit of baby mawkrushas led by a Ironjawz boss type guy, small compared to the grown guy but still large enough to gobble up a handful of humanoid sized meals. They should be bulky yet somewhat cute while being absolutely terrifying at the same time as well.

[Skabnoze]

8 hours ago, mikethefish said:

The main problem with this concept is that there are not enough weapons in one kit to equip all the Ardboyz with a single weapon type - which would be necessary for a kit, if you wanted to split the Ardboyz into different units by weapon type

Despite owning over a hundred Black Orcs (going all the way back to the terrible 5th ed plastics) I don't think I have ever actually looked at the layout of the current sprues and how many of each weapon is included!  I never needed to since the last time I assembled any they had the "Armed to the Teef" rule and you could just build them to whatever looked cool and ranked up best.

Thanks for pointing that out.

[Skabnoze]

1 hour ago, Warfiend said:

I just had the greatest idea, what we need is a unit of baby mawkrushas led by a Ironjawz boss type guy, small compared to the grown guy but still large enough to gobble up a handful of humanoid sized meals. They should be bulky yet somewhat cute while being absolutely terrifying at the same time as well.

[Lanoss]

Brutes - 160pts

MBMK - 380/400pts

Change my mind hahaha

[Backbreaker]

@broche I don't understand why you like the Sunz' battalion. Only -1 to hit, only during first turn, only 4/6 times, ... The MK boost is forgettable...

If you could play this battalion with a gorefist, why not. But most of the time we won't alpha and not every army rely on that.

Bloodtooth will always be useful. Bravery buff. Charge / run buff. And you can use the portal against sylvaneth etc ...

[broche]

On the opposite, -1 to hit army wide as huge impact on the game state especially since Ironfist is not an alphastrike being protected in round 1 is golden.( It suck that it's only on a 3+, but it basically make you idoneth on R1.

+2 bravery could be worthwhile , but with 3 artefact choice it's basically worthless (as you have tooth / skewer).  How many time will you trigger the bravery buff? Let be realist, the worst is loosing 3 brutes (1/3 of losing the last 2) but even there you could spend a CP.  You can also watch for inspiring terrain. 

+1 run  don't matter much  to me, i'll rather have a boost on MK. The only buff bloodtooth bring me i could want is +1 charge (i would consider if it would be the first +1 we get) but i consider -1 to hit much better.

[Dingar]

Hey TGA Ironjawz crew. Long time lurker first time poster 

I'm having a hard time deciding between Gore Gruntas and Boingrot Bounderz in my IJ list. 

Gore Gruntas make more sense tactically, as they can benefit from the Ironjawz allegiance abilities. Their speed is reliable too.

Boingrot Bounderz are just cool, but gain no benefits from IJ allegiance abilities, and would miss out on their Gloomspite allegiance abilities/battalions which make them tons better. 

Both fit thematically, and honestly I'd take the Squigs if I knew that meant I wasn't handicapping myself tactically. But knowing I'll be playing in a competitive event I'm uncertain on what to do. I want to go rule of cool but I also don't want to go 0-5 at a GT. 

Any insight would greatly be appreciated. Thanksss

[Skabnoze]

1 minute ago, Dingar said:

Any insight would greatly be appreciated. Thanksss

Proxy them both in some games and decide which you prefer.  That is probably the best way to go.

I don't honestly think that Boingrot Bounders really need the allegiance abilities from Gloomspite or any of the other synergies in that book.  One of the reasons you see them in so many Gloomspite lists is simply because their warscroll is very good for a Grots unit and pretty self-sufficient for their cost.  That said, they also seem to me to be the Gloomspite unit that is most likely to see a cost increase.  If you are not going to expand into a Gloomspite army then I would be wary about going heavy into a bunch of Bounders for that reason.   They do benefit from the Squig Rider Stampede battalion - since 2d6 move is somewhat unreliable.  But I don't think they really require it.  

One thing to consider with the Gore Gruntas is that they synergize very well with Ironjawz in general.  I would not be surprised to see a rewritten Ironjawz battletome released at some point this year and whenever that happens it is likely that more synergy tools are added into the army that Gore Gruntas can benefit from.  For a "right now" purchase I think the Gore Gruntas are probably the better choice, but if you really like the Boingrot models then don't let that stop you from picking some up.  In the end play what you find to be the most fun so try it out with some proxies first.

The Gore Gruntas also come in the Ironjawz start-collecting box, which is quite a good deal, so that is also worth considering.

[Malakree]

8 minutes ago, Dingar said:

Hey TGA Ironjawz crew. Long time lurker first time poster 

I'm having a hard time deciding between Gore Gruntas and Boingrot Bounderz in my IJ list. 

Gore Gruntas make more sense tactically, as they can benefit from the Ironjawz allegiance abilities. Their speed is reliable too.

Boingrot Bounderz are just cool, but gain no benefits from IJ allegiance abilities, and would miss out on their Gloomspite allegiance abilities/battalions which make them tons better. 

Both fit thematically, and honestly I'd take the Squigs if I knew that meant I wasn't handicapping myself tactically. But knowing I'll be playing in a competitive event I'm uncertain on what to do. I want to go rule of cool but I also don't want to go 0-5 at a GT. 

Any insight would greatly be appreciated. Thanksss

Depends what you are attempting to do with your list. If you are building around Waaagh! stacking then losing the Ironjawz units is going to make it all the harder to get off the high +attacks while also meaning you benefit less from them.

On the other side of the coin Boingrots have the same impact damage a Maw-Krusha does and can fly, making them great at going over the opponents lines to kill key targets, something which Ironjawz always struggle with.

If you play the army properly then 1/2 wins is easily obtainable no matter what kind of list you build. If you want 3 wins you have to play a strong list, play it well AND get lucky in all areas. Right now I don't think Ironjawz is going to go 4/5 unless you're playing a weirdfist and Foot of Gork just goes nuts for the whole weekend.

So yeah, more info required before we can give a solid answer.

[Dingar]

Thank you both! Great insight, really appreciated. Here are the two lists:

List one:

The Iron Brutes from the Realm of Beasts, Ghur
Ironjawz Allegiance

Leaders

Megaboss Wa'Ghar - Prophet of the WAAAGH! Also carrying Anraheir's Claw
Warchanter Daev Gruul - Carrying the Golden Toof
Weirdnob Shaman Krog
Weirdnob Shaman Krom

Endless Spells
Chronomantic Cogs Endless Spell
 

Battleline
Ironfist Battalion
5 Orruk Brutes, led by Big Boss Big'Ead - Carrying Boss Klaw, Brute Choppas, and a Gore Choppa
5 Orruk Brutes, led by Boss Peggie - Carrying Boss Klaw, Brute Choppas, and a Gore Choppa
5 Orruk Brutes, led by Boss Crim'sin - Carrying Boss Klaw, Brute Choppas, and a Gore Choppa
5 Orruk Brutes, led by Boss Bron'sin - Carrying Boss Klaw, Brute Choppas, and a Gore Choppa
5 Orruk Brutes, led by Boss Brun'stang - Carrying Boss Klaw, Brute Choppas, and a Gore Choppa

Allies

10 Boingrot Bounderz, led by Boss Gumbo
10 Boingrot Bounderz, led by Boss Grak

 

List two:

The Iron Brutes from the Realm of Beasts, Ghur
Ironjawz Allegiance

Leaders

Megaboss Wa'Ghar - Prophet of the WAAAGH! Also carrying Anraheir's Claw
 Weirdnob Shaman Krog - Carrying the Golden Toof

Fungoid Cave Shaman Spoodle

Fungoid Cave Shaman Grabby

Endless Spells
Chronomantic Cogs Endless Spell

 

Battleline
Ironfist Battalion
5 Orruk Brutes, led by Big Boss Big'Ead - Carrying Boss Klaw, Brute Choppas, and a Gore Choppa
5 Orruk Brutes, led by Boss Peggie - Carrying Boss Klaw, Brute Choppas, and a Gore Choppa
5 Orruk Brutes, led by Boss Crim'sin - Carrying Boss Klaw, Brute Choppas, and a Gore Choppa
5 Orruk Brutes, led by Boss Bron'sin - Carrying Boss Klaw, Brute Choppas, and a Gore Choppa
5 Orruk Brutes, led by Boss Brun'stang - Carrying Boss Klaw, Brute Choppas, and a Gore Choppa

 

3 Gore Gruntas, led by Snarl Jaw

3 Gore Gruntas, led by William

3 Gore Gruntas, led by Cleavah

 

Sorry for any weird formatting. My phone has erased this post 3 times now so I'm not deleting their names, sorry lol. I'm sure that makes the lists more difficult to read

 

[broche]

Bounderz are currently underpriced and with their mortal output are a perfect ally choice for Ironjawz currently.

But if you use Bouderz you should really be using a Maw Krusha and spam mortal on the charge.

good luck!

[Malakree]

1 hour ago, broche said:

Bounderz are currently underpriced and with their mortal output are a perfect ally choice for Ironjawz currently.

But if you use Bouderz you should really be using a Maw Krusha and spam mortal on the charge.

good luck!

To be fair if you are running Boingrots you should just man up and play Gloomspite, they are probably the only viable Destruction army (at least till the Gutbusters and Ironjawz wave 2 are released).

@Dingar So the base list is this.

Quote

Allegiance: Ironjawz

Leaders
Orruk Megaboss (140)
Orruk Warchanter (80)
Orruk Weirdnob Shaman (120)
Orruk Weirdnob Shaman (120)

Battleline
5 x Orruk Brutes (180)
- Pair of Brute Choppas
5 x Orruk Brutes (180)
- Pair of Brute Choppas
5 x Orruk Brutes (180)
- Pair of Brute Choppas
5 x Orruk Brutes (180)
- Pair of Brute Choppas
5 x Orruk Brutes (180)
- Pair of Brute Choppas

Battalions
Ironfist (180)

Endless Spells
Chronomantic Cogs (60)

Total: 1600 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 9
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 100

So before I say anything I need to preface it with the statement I'm providing options and opinions, right now if you're playing Ironjawz you're doing it out of a love for the army. As such it's pointless for me to say "this is best" since realistically all our armies fall into the same bracket of mediocre at best.

Onto my initial thoughts. This list screams Waaagh! bomb to me, the Brute Boss (with Klaw/Smasha) is our second best Waaagh! recipient excluding only the cabbage itself. So first recommendation is you try a proper Waaagh! Bomb Bloodtoofs list before anything else.

Quote

Allegiance: Ironjawz
Mortal Realm: Hysh

Leaders
Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (440)
- General
- Choppa and Rip-tooth fist
- Trait: Prophet of the Waaagh! 
Orruk Warchanter (80)
- Artefact: Aetherquartz Brooch 
Fungoid Cave Shaman (90)
Orruk Weirdnob Shaman (120)

Battleline
5 x Orruk Brutes (180)
- Pair of Brute Choppas
5 x Orruk Brutes (180)
- Pair of Brute Choppas
5 x Orruk Brutes (180)
- Pair of Brute Choppas
5 x Orruk Brutes (180)
- Pair of Brute Choppas
5 x Orruk Brutes (180)
- Pair of Brute Choppas

Battalions
Ironfist (180)
Bloodtoofs (120)

Endless Spells
Chronomantic Cogs (60)

Total: 1990 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 2
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 107

You're a 1 drop, you have an extra artefact (which goes on the Brooch) +4 to charge with the cogs. Ideally you bomb turn 1/2 by dropping your cogs, getting 5/6 Waaagh! down, rolling +8 attacks and then chain smashing and bashing into your opponents face and wiping them off the board. If you do it right your opponent gets to attack back with 2 banshees then concedes because he's got nothing left. (totally not talking from experience 😅) Since this doesn't require either the GG's or the Boingrots it lets you try out the base of the list before you make your choice.

Assuming you don't want to do this my initial concern would be the lack of staying power in the base force. 100 wounds is nothing and Brutes are notorious for fleeing the moment someone sneezes in their direction. With that in mind I'd say the GG's are going to be far better for screening, zoning, tying things down and generally protecting you while your Brutes waddle into position.

The Boingrots give you some reasonable mortal wound output but other than that I can see them just being even squishier versions of Brutes. I don't think I personally would run them in a Brute heavy list.

[broche]

8 minutes ago, Malakree said:

To be fair if you are running Boingrots you should just man up and play Gloomspite, they are probably the only viable Destruction army (at least till the Gutbusters and Ironjawz wave 2 are released).

adding 10-20 boingrots to a force you already have is not the same as starting a whole new army. I think adding 10-20 boingrots to IJ is a competitive choice, and can be a first step if you want to play Gloompite Gitz. 

Gloompsite require much more than 20 bounderz (like 120 foot goblins let say)