AoS 2 - Ironjawz Discussion

[Kelsicle]

13 hours ago, DerZauberer said:

Had an interesting interaction with belakor and my megaboss last week in a game of AoS3.0.

It was turn 2, Belakor used his "The Dark Master" ability on my Megaboss (roll per phase, if 3+, unit cannot do stuff, e.g. use command abilities (which is erratad for "issue" or "receive" CA).

It's the start of the combat phase, he rolls a 3+ and my Megaboss cant do stuff. I've wanted to use my waaagh! faction command ability, read the rules and nowhere in the Ironjawz Waaagh CA or the Errata i've found that the Megaboss actually issues the command. I've had at weirdnob right next to him, he uses Waaagh!, we still measure from the megaboss, i got +2 Attack allthough my Megaboss could not issue CAs, my Weirdboy did. 

Even in the Core Book errata where all "old" CAs were explained or erratad, i've found no information on whether this move was legal or not. 

It literally won me the game and i'm curious if the TGA Hivemind had any experience with belakor and ironjawz waaagh.

Any thoughts? 

I think I agree with what you did here. The command ability doesn't say that your General is issuing the command, only that the Megaboss has to be the General and on the battlefield. I agree that the Weirdnob can use the CA

 

EDIT: Scratch that, just re-read the FAQ section @Orkmann refers to, he is right, the Unit that the aura is measured from is considered the issuer of the Command, in this case the Megaboss. So yea, you shouldnt have been able to do that.

Edited July 12, 2021 by Kelsicle

[DerZauberer]

18 hours ago, Malakree said:

1 per hero phase and 1/2 from the start of the round is 3/4 base per round

When general alive 1 CP, 1 CP when you go first, 2 CP if you go second. Thats 2-3 base. You can use your single Hereoic Action to get another one on 4+, but miss out on the other 3 hereoic actions, of which all are really good.

+1 hit, +1 save, mighty destroyers and once a waaagh are allready CAs you want to use in your turn, +1 hit, +1 save, redeploy, battleshock are CAs you want to use on your enemy turn (but you get one more CP in your enemy turn). Thats possibly 8 commands with only 6 points max. per round, of which two are only on 4+ and heroic actions.

I don't know, those are only the generic ones which are allready really good. Can imagine there will be plenty of really good CAs in the new Battletomes.

[ShaneHobbes]

Is it clear how Smashing and Bashing works with a unit made to Strike Last from something like a spell or beginning of combat phase ability with the new Strikes First/Last chart?

[Malakree]

22 minutes ago, ShaneHobbes said:

Is it clear how Smashing and Bashing works with a unit made to Strike Last from something like a spell or beginning of combat phase ability with the new Strikes First/Last chart?

As smashing and bashing is the last applied thing it takes precedence over any other effect which would contradict it.

[Jabbuk]

Guys, is it worth it to play Big Waaagh! At 1000pts? Or is it worth it to play Big Waaagh! In 3.0 so far?

I remember it being very strong in 2.0. has anyone tried it so far?

[NauticalSoup]

My motivation to learn to play current Warclans with the rules being replaced in like a month is negligible. I'm sure Big Waaagh! is still fine for this last few weeks it exists in its current form, but as before it scales heavily on access to point generation so probably not the greatest at 1k.

[Jabbuk]

I got a sweet little list here (1015pts because my partner has 985pts) that could generate me a nice amount. I could get 20pts by turn 2 I think.

I also feel like it's a nice list to try all the new features and play in all phases (shooting, magic, priest, etc.)

Allegiance: Big Waaagh!
- Grand Strategy: Hold the Line
- Triumphs:
Orruk Warchanter (120) in Warlord
- Artefact: Amulet of Destiny (Universal Artefact)
- Warbeat: Get 'Em Beat
Wurrgog Prophet (170) in Warlord
- General
- Command Trait: Master of the Weird
- Artefact: Big Wurrgog Mask
- Lore of the Savage Beast: Brutal Beast Spirits
Wardokk (85) in Warlord
- Lore of the Savage Beast: Kunnin' Beast Spirits
- Universal Prayer Scripture: Guidance
20 x Savage Orruk Arrowboys (260) in Warlord
- Reinforced x 1
10 x Orruk Ardboys (190) in Warlord
- Reinforced x 1
5 x Orruk Ardboys (95) in Warlord
5 x Orruk Ardboys (95)
Warlord
Artefact

Total: 1015 / 1000
Reinforced Units: 2 / 2
Allies: 0 / 200
Wounds: 98
 

 

[5kaven5lave]

Just about to start building some Brutes. Is it 2-handers that are better? Also, is Boss Choppa the best champion option? Or before all that, should I just wait until the new book in August?

EDIT: Ah, it looks like the Boss Choppa goes with a unit with Choppas and the Brute Smasha goes with the Gore-hackas?

Edited July 14, 2021 by 5kaven5lave

[Malakree]

6 minutes ago, 5kaven5lave said:

Just about to start building some Brutes. Is it 2-handers that are better? Also, is Boss Choppa the best champion option? Or before all that, should I just wait until the new book in August?

If you've already got 5 with one of the weapon types I'd make the next 5 with them so that you can run it as a block of 10. Realistically though you should wait for the next book to drop.

[SunStorm]

On 7/14/2021 at 8:11 PM, 5kaven5lave said:

Just about to start building some Brutes. Is it 2-handers that are better? Also, is Boss Choppa the best champion option? Or before all that, should I just wait until the new book in August?

EDIT: Ah, it looks like the Boss Choppa goes with a unit with Choppas and the Brute Smasha goes with the Gore-hackas?

If you can, I'd be tempted to wait until the book is seen. 

The traditional way was always to do duel wielding in units of 5 and then the gore-hackas in units of 10 or more, but with the change to coherency I'm not sure if that still stands?

[Malakree]

4 minutes ago, SunStorm said:

If you can, I'd be tempted to wait until the book is seen. 

The traditional way was always to do duel wielding in units of 5 and then the gore-hackas in units of 10 or more, but with the change to coherency I'm not sure if that still stands?

If anything it might apply even more so as coherency didn't change at 5s and is super restrictive at 10s.

[Jabbuk]

What's the general consensus on Ironsunz vs Bloodtoofs.

I've been wondering lately because to me having that back pocket ace of guaranteed teleport of a 6 GGs unit wherever I want to seems really powerful (and the +1run and charge is also really nice) but all the lists I see are always Ironsunz focused. Could someone explain why Ironsunz is better?

[Malakree]

10 minutes ago, Jabbuk said:

What's the general consensus on Ironsunz vs Bloodtoofs.

I've been wondering lately because to me having that back pocket ace of guaranteed teleport of a 6 GGs unit wherever I want to seems really powerful (and the +1run and charge is also really nice) but all the lists I see are always Ironsunz focused. Could someone explain why Ironsunz is better?

Mainly it's my go to because all the stuff is just good and the CA is amazing. Bloodtoofs is less generically good and more good for specifics, it doesn't help that some of it's stuff is either bad or flat doesn't work like the effect which requires a realmgate on the board.

[ShaneHobbes]

Played my first 3.0 with Ironjawz this weekend and also my first with them in nearly a year. Been riding the (almost) pure Troggoth train since then.

Faced off against a DoK list that was mostly snakes. No Morathi though.

Ironscale Medusa

Bloodwrack Medusa

Bloodwrack Shrine

3x5 Shooty Snakes (stalkers?)

2x10 Stabby Snakes (sisters?)

1x5 Stabby Snake

Endless spell that he never got off, Bladewind I think

 

Allegiance: Ironjawz
- Grand Strategy: Beast Master
- Triumphs: Indomitable

Leaders
Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (495) in Warlord
- General
- Boss Gore-hacka and Choppa
- Command Trait: Live to Fight
- Artefact: Metalrippa's Klaw
- Mount Trait: Mean 'Un
Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (495)
- Boss Choppa and Rip-tooth fist
- Artefact: Amulet of Destiny (Universal Artefact)
Orruk Warchanter (120) in Warlord
- Warbeat: Fixin' Beat
Orruk Warchanter (120) in Warlord
- Warbeat: Killa Beat

Battleline
10 x Orruk Brutes (300) in Hunters of the Heartlands
- Jagged Gore-hackas
- 2x Gore Choppas
- Reinforced x 1
5 x Orruk Brutes (150) in Hunters of the Heartlands
- Pair of Brute Choppas
- 1x Gore Choppas
5 x Orruk Brutes (150) in Hunters of the Heartlands
- Pair of Brute Choppas
- 1x Gore Choppas
5 x Orruk Brutes (150) in Warlord
- Pair of Brute Choppas
- 1x Gore Choppas

Core Battalions
Warlord
Hunters of the Heartlands

Additional Enhancements
Artefact

Total: 1980 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 1 / 4
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 117
 

I brought Brutes because I like Brutes and also own 40 of them compared to only 30 Ardboyz. Didn't choose a warclan because I wanted to try a pure beatstick MBMK with Live to Fight. Spoiler: With Mean Un and Warchanter buff he deleted 10 spear snakes without breaking a sweat.

Played the Veins of Ghur Battleplan aka Starstrike. I was granted first turn and played cautiously as there are no objectives till turn 2. Focused on scoring my secondary with Ferocious Advance. Easy. Kept my maw krushas back behind brutes, warchanters hidden from shooty snakes and mindful of deepstriking khinari. Uneventful turn.

Opponent pings some wounds off some brutes, killing one brute out of the 25 I brought. Drops both khinari behind me in my deployment to get the battle tactic for that. But then makes the mistake of charging one khinari into my general and failing second khinaris charge. Unleash Hell + Stomp only kills 3 out of 5 (he rolled a ton of 6s for his ward) but I'll take it as the khinari are 2 damage each when they charge. He only gets 2 damage through and more importantly fails the roll to let them move away after fighting. MBMK demolishes them and denies opponent his battle tactic as he now only has 1 unit in my deployment instead of the required 

I win next turn and between Mighty Destroyer and good charge rolls get the majority of my brutes and maw krushas into his front lines. 10 Brutes demolish 10 Snakes, MBMK with Live to Fight reroll did 44 wounds with no save for snakes.

Game ended up being close despite all this after round 3 as the last two objectives dropped where his units were but I pretty much talked him turn 4 while securing all 3 objectives by then.

Takeaway: My opponent struggled to focus on a priority target between two MBMK, one with a 5+ ward, and 10 man brute squad. All Out Defense was MVP for me. Didnt use All Out Attack that much but when I did it was nice being able to get it on two different units in a way since every Megaboss can do it on another unit with their warscroll CA.

Monstrous Rampage is great, especially Roar.

I dont think my friend will charge my maw krushas with something like Khinari again with Unleash Hell + Stomp combo ready to punish him.

I could really feel the impact of a smaller board size especially with Mad as Hell helping close the distance.

By the end of game my MBMK with amulet had only suffered 4 wounds despite a couple turns of shooting at him and a 5 man snake unit stabbing him for another turn. I dont see how I could ever not take the 5+ ward Amulet. 

3+ save vs -1 Rend then 5+ ward was disgusting.

I want to try to get a Fungoid Cave Shaman in there just to by my CP battery and do nothing but cast Mystic Shield.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited July 18, 2021 by ShaneHobbes

[Malakree]

Man I'm really eating my own words on the whole Brute thing aren't I, going to try 2 blocks of 15 ardboys next week just to see how I feel about it but those Brutes seem to be doing a ton of work for people.

[ShaneHobbes]

12 minutes ago, Malakree said:

Man I'm really eating my own words on the whole Brute thing aren't I, going to try 2 blocks of 15 ardboys next week just to see how I feel about it but those Brutes seem to be doing a ton of work for people.

I've been in your camp for Brutes for a long time and still am for the most part. Granted it was only 1 game but it felt like night and day from 2nd to 3rd for Brutes. It was so much easier getting them into combat and +1 save is huge, especially when they have their own unit champion. I'm honestly tempted to try a list with one MBMK and two Foot bosses with Brutes.

[Malakree]

14 minutes ago, ShaneHobbes said:

I've been in your camp for Brutes for a long time and still am for the most part. Granted it was only 1 game but it felt like night and day from 2nd to 3rd for Brutes. It was so much easier getting them into combat and +1 save is huge, especially when they have their own unit champion. I'm honestly tempted to try a list with one MBMK and two Foot bosses with Brutes.

I've got a few things I want to try out. Didn't really like the double MK. Want to try 15/15 ardboys and I'm also thinking about running a block of 30 gutripperz with a personal killaboss in big Waaagh! That should be gross with rally and gives a massive block the opponent has to actually wipe out.

 

EDIT: I'm also seriously thinking that an emerald lifeswarm to sit the mawkrusha might be close to mandatory now. D3 heal every hero phase and using it to block some envelops seems so good on paper.

Edited July 18, 2021 by Malakree

[ShaneHobbes]

2 hours ago, Malakree said:

I've got a few things I want to try out. Didn't really like the double MK. Want to try 15/15 ardboys and I'm also thinking about running a block of 30 gutripperz with a personal killaboss in big Waaagh! That should be gross with rally and gives a massive block the opponent has to actually wipe out.

 

EDIT: I'm also seriously thinking that an emerald lifeswarm to sit the mawkrusha might be close to mandatory now. D3 heal every hero phase and using it to block some envelops seems so good on paper.

I was legit thinking the same about emerald lifeswarm, especially because of jacking up a Maw Krusha whose total wounds could be 20+ by the third round

[Arkahn]

That's the list I'm working on at the moment.

Tons of heal from lifeswarm, Wardokk, warchanter and heroic action ! 

Allegiance: Big Waaagh!
- Grand Strategy:
- Triumphs:

Leaders
Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (495) in Warlord
- General
- Boss Gore-hacka and Choppa
- Command Trait: Brutish Cunning
- Artefact: Amulet of Destiny (Universal Artefact)
- Mount Trait: Weird 'Un
Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (495)
- Boss Gore-hacka and Choppa
- Artefact: Metalrippa's Klaw
Wardokk (85) in Warlord
- Lore of the Savage Beast: Breath of Gorkamorka
- Universal Prayer Scripture: Heal
Orruk Warchanter (120) in Warlord
- Warbeat: Fixin' Beat
Orruk Warchanter (120) in Warlord
- Warbeat: Get 'Em Beat

Battleline
5 x Orruk Ardboys (95) in Warlord
5 x Orruk Ardboys (95) in Hunters of the Heartlands
30 x Savage Orruks (390) in Hunters of the Heartlands
- Stikkas
- Reinforced x 2

Endless Spells & Invocations
Emerald Lifeswarm (60)

Core Battalions
Warlord
Hunters of the Heartlands

Additional Enhancements
Artefact

Total: 1955 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 2 / 4
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 127
 

[Malakree]

@Arkahn those 45 points of float are painful. Could you swap 5 ardboys for some sort of bonesplitterz?

Savage orruks or boarboys would give more wounds/coverage and spend the points. Boarboys especially would give you some great mobility/screening options given that the warchanters are both spoken for.

[Arkahn]

10 hours ago, Malakree said:

@Arkahn those 45 points of float are painful. Could you swap 5 ardboys for some sort of bonesplitterz?

Savage orruks or boarboys would give more wounds/coverage and spend the points. Boarboys especially would give you some great mobility/screening options given that the warchanters are both spoken for.

I think I prefer to consider triumphs and 5 Ardboyz near a warchanter are good body guard / objectives holder 

[AaronWilson]

Double krusha is looking reeally goood.

[ShaneHobbes]

I think for me my Maw Krusha will always run Ironclad + Amulet. A permanent +1 save really helps with the choice of putting AOD on another unit unless something has -2/-3 Rend going into him. If I can fit an emerald lifestream... 

This Friday my Kragnos will be ready and I'm going to substitute him for my second cabbage for a game.

[PainfullyMediocre]

53 minutes ago, ShaneHobbes said:

I think for me my Maw Krusha will always run Ironclad + Amulet. A permanent +1 save really helps with the choice of putting AOD on another unit unless something has -2/-3 Rend going into him. If I can fit an emerald lifestream... 

This Friday my Kragnos will be ready and I'm going to substitute him for my second cabbage for a game.

What does your list look like? I've got an event on in 2 weeks and i'm torn between Kragnos, FLOSH, Huskard and 3x2 Mournfang or trying him in a Big Waagh list.

[mrteige]

So i just played a IJ list for a 2 day tournament. (a different setup so i ended up only playing 4 games)

Allegiance: Ironjawz
- Warclan: Ironjawz
- Grand Strategy: Hold the Line
- Triumphs: Inspired
Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (495) in Battle Regiment
- General
- Boss Choppa and Rip-tooth fist
- Command Trait: Ironclad
- Artefact: Amulet of Destiny (Universal Artefact)
- Mount Trait: Weird 'Un
Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (495) in Command Entourage
- Boss Gore-hacka and Choppa
- Artefact: Metalrippa's Klaw
Orruk Warchanter (120) in Battle Regiment
- Warbeat: Get 'Em Beat
Orruk Warchanter (120) in Battle Regiment
- Warbeat: Fixin' Beat
Orruk Weirdnob Shaman (120) in Command Entourage
- Lore of the Weird: Da Great Big Green Hand of Gork
3 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (170) in Battle Regiment
- Pig-iron Choppas
3 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (170) in Battle Regiment
- Pig-iron Choppas
10 x Orruk Ardboys (190) in Battle Regiment
- 1x Gorkamorka Banner Bearers
- 1x Gorkamorka Glyph Bearers
- Reinforced x 1
5 x Orruk Ardboys (95) in Battle Regiment
- 1x Gorkamorka Banner Bearers
Command Entourage - Magnificent
Battle Regiment
Artefact

Total: 1975 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 1 / 4
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 108
 

The tournament setup was like that of world cup Soccer. That ment we had 6 groups of 4 and you had to play the 3 other guys from your group. Also in group play we only played the Feral Foray battleplan.

 

I played a Squg list in my game 1, a Soulblight Gravelords Kastelai list in game 2 and a Skaven list with a lot of shooting in game 3.

I went 3-0 and was the 1st seed overall after day 1. that ment i got to go straight through to the semifinals.

On day 2 i met a Dok list with Morathi, 15 bow snakes and Gotrek. Needless to say I got wiped in that one

 

Takeaways:

 

Defensive Mawkrusha

This guys is a TANK. On day 1, he took a grand total of 3 wounds combined and in the semifinals it took the double shooting of 15 bow snakes, shooting from morathi and the entire melee output of a unwounded morathi to kill him.

 

Offensive Mawkrusha

We all know what he does but because of the threat of 2 cabbages he did SO much more work for me than i'm used to.

 

Boards size and Get em' beat

This was one of the biggest surprices for me. with "only" 1 mighty destroyers i was afraid that i wouldnt be able to get my 2 big guys into combat but because of the smaller board and get em' beat i was not having problems getting them both stuck in where i needed.

 

Shaman

I really dont know if i think it was worth the 120 points to have a green hand of gork spell in this list. Think i will try and change it out for a fungoid cave shaman, a wardokk or more ardboys just to see how that works.

 

Overall i had a blast playing this army. Mawkrushas are SO much fun and it is still a straight forward, punch you in the face, kind of army.