The extent of the next two publications.

[TheAntsAreBack]

There has been plenty of previews now regarding AoS 2nd ed and with all that's coming there is quite a lot of new material on the horizon. It looks like we can expect the core rules to expand out perhaps by a couple of pages but does anyone know yet what the extent of the new published material will be? Is it likely that the new edition will be a full book containing the expanded background material, malign sorcery, the maps, etc or will some or all of this be contained within the new General's Handbook? If it's to be two publications I do hope that they are released on the same day. Any clues as to numbers of pages etc?

[Killax]

Great questions and I have not come across complete information.

What I do think is that both this new Rulesbook and Generals Handbook 2018 will be different books and I also think there will be some time in between them. Games Workshop has done the same with Warhammer 40.000 with the Rulesbook and Chapter Approved. 

As before I think the new Rulesbook will contain mostly new rules, additional lore, maps and thus scenario's, all to set the vibe for the basically narrative context of Age of Sigmar. Something the first edition completely skipped upon. Which is a cause of why it was met with quite some dissapointment. My expectation is that the book will cover the following:
- Updated information on Realms and locations
- New maps and all for Realms and locations
- Updated information on Allegiance narrative
- New Core rules, likely 8 to 10 pages
- New Scenarios
- New Realm lores and artefacts
- Updated rules for Allegiances
- Warscrolls for Magic effects

Meanwhile I expect the Generals Handbook 2018 to do the same as the former. Thus basically give additional ruling and hopefully updated Warscrolls but certainly updated point costs.

[AlphaKennyThing]

I think Killax has a very accurate assessment. You'll be able to get stuck in to the 3 different ways to play straight out of the new box, but I think General's Handbook will have the points for the new edition.

I'm expecting the new box to be similar to Dark Imperium, it'll be the models and a big lore book with an overview of the different ways to play with all the bits Killax suggested. Probably be £95.

General's handbook will contain the extras and points.

[Chikout]

The only thing that has been said in regards to page count is 200 pages of lore in the core book.

I imagine a lot of the rules content and updated warscrolls will be in ghb2018 so that players who only care about playing can just buy that. 

I am most curious about whether malign sorcery will get its own book or be folded into one of the others.

[Vanger]

My educated guess is that they will follow the route 40K paved and the AoS rulebook will contain
- expanded lore on the realms and the factions
- maps
- showcase of miniatures
- the base rules (around 10 pages)
- command points and command abilities
- rules and scenarios for open, narrative and matched play
- realms specific rules
- magic: realms specific spells and endless spells
- optional rules

General's handbook 2018 will contain:
- point updates
- race specific rules
- warscroll updates: everything from units to battalions
- race/realm specific command abilities, artifacts

[HorticulusTGA]

What @Vanger said ; either "Malign Sorcery" is its own book (so coming algonside the Core Book and the GHB2018) or it will be under the "Magic / Optional rules" of the Core book (Ala "Advanced rules" in the 40k 8th ed. Core book).

They way it is teased, it seems to me it could be a stand alone book. I also thought this magic supplement could contain the new SCE rules. I thought it was quite confirmed by the absence of the "new battle tome" in the Sacrosanct Chamber teaser. 

But now the actual SCE BT is "last chance to buy", it's pretty obvious a new one is coming alongside the new models. 

So between June and July if think we'll get at least 4, maybe 5 new books : 

- New Core book (maybe in the Soul Wars starter set) maybe including Malign Sorcery ; 

- GHB2018 ; 

- Stormcast Eternals and Nighthaunt Battletomes.

[Karol]

Wait, so the new general hand book for 2018 won't be added to the starter set? How are people suppose to use the new stormcasts without battletomes, points and relics etc ?

[chord]

10 minutes ago, Karol said:

Wait, so the new general hand book for 2018 won't be added to the starter set? How are people suppose to use the new stormcasts without battletomes, points and relics etc ?

People can play without points etc.  The new starter will come with warscrolls and probably a battalion for each side.

[Karol]

Now I now that in english the word can has a very broad spectrum, but this is like saying that you can also win in lotto. Matched play is kind of a important part of AoS, to say the least, and not to rustle any narrative/open players.

[EMMachine]

33 minutes ago, Karol said:

Wait, so the new general hand book for 2018 won't be added to the starter set? How are people suppose to use the new stormcasts without battletomes, points and relics etc ?

Did you see the Boxes for Spire of Dawn and Blightwar?

Both included a booklet, containing the warscrolls that were in the box and had a pitched Battle profile for those. So even if there is no GH2018 in the Starterset and no Battletome released at the starting day, players will most likely have points for the 2 Starterset Armies.

[Kramer]

18 minutes ago, Karol said:

Now I now that in english the word can has a very broad spectrum, but this is like saying that you can also win in lotto. Matched play is kind of a important part of AoS, to say the least, and not to rustle any narrative/open players.

True, but if the started set is really meant for new players with no previous experience is it really needed? Or is it needed when you start expending the selection of models from the starter set? 

I would argue that IF they make it for new players, points don't have much value because you only have those models and might even be hurtful. Points are even more admin, you can list build but without a choice of models it's a moot point and the cost of the book will be included in the price making it a bigger investment for newer players. Just make it clear it's a great addition to the hobby, so point them to the new generals handbook or battletome as a next step and let it evolve from there. 

IF they make it for the older players as a starting point for one or more new factions than yes, a set with the book would be nice. (But don't forget that most GW bundles are exactly the same price as getting it all separate.)

[amysrevenge]

I'm mostly curious to see how updated Warscrolls are going to be handled.  There are likely to be dozens of them updating, more than any time since the Grand Alliance books came out and updated stuff from the original compendiums.  It seems like a lot of space to take up in, say, the GH2018.  I wonder if they will do an electronic-only update.

[Kramer]

1 minute ago, amysrevenge said:

I'm mostly curious to see how updated Warscrolls are going to be handled.  There are likely to be dozens of them updating, more than any time since the Grand Alliance books came out and updated stuff from the original compendiums.  It seems like a lot of space to take up in, say, the GH2018.  I wonder if they will do an electronic-only update.

Well they did update the skirmish tome yesterday to include Daughters of Khaine (and probably more) so here’s hoping they ALSO update the electronic products

[HorticulusTGA]

1 hour ago, Karol said:

Wait, so the new general hand book for 2018 won't be added to the starter set? How are people suppose to use the new stormcasts without battletomes, points and relics etc ?

The actual SCE battletome is going on "last chance to buy", it surely means there is a new one coming. So you'll get everything in it. 

The GHB is not intended to be in the Starter set, just like Chapter Approved isn't in Dark Imperium. I hope the Core Book is tho. 

[Vanger]

Based on the 40K release of 8th edition, they will release the starter set, with point cost included (just like in Dark Imperium), the GHB2018 at the same time. First army book will be SCE, then Nighthaunt. Expect staged releases. They will probably stretch it out to 2 months.

 

Warscrolls will remain free and downloadable from the GW site.

[blueshirtman]

5 hours ago, HorticulusTGA said:

The actual SCE battletome is going on "last chance to buy", it surely means there is a new one coming. So you'll get everything in it. 

The GHB is not intended to be in the Starter set, just like Chapter Approved isn't in Dark Imperium. I hope the Core Book is tho. 

But isn't this spliting a rule book in half. In one book you have the 2.0 updated rules and in the other you have the points costs. Makes little sense as both could be in the same book.

[Melcavuk]

One book is a core rules and setting book. The other adds points and matched play scenarios. It’s entirely possible you could play matched play with just the generals handbook and free  rules pdf. Similarly you could play narrative with just the setting book. Whilst they work together they aren’t the same 

[Greyshadow]

Interesting comment about the length of the new rules @Killax. I am hoping we get the rules in two formats: learning rules and reference rules. Learning rules like in the Getting Started magazine or Thunder and Blood - rules with pictures, annotations and nice presentation. Retaining a four page fold-out of reference rules for use during a game should be retained.

[amysrevenge]

Just now, Greyshadow said:

Interesting comment about the length of the new rules @Killax. I am hoping we get the rules in two formats: learning rules and reference rules. Learning rules like in the Getting Started magazine or Thunder and Blood - rules with pictures, annotations and nice presentation. Retaining a four page fold-out of reference rules for use during a game should be retained.

Similar to the single page vs. the whole book for Shadespire...  good idea.

[Karol]

1 hour ago, Melcavuk said:

One book is a core rules and setting book. The other adds points and matched play scenarios. It’s entirely possible you could play matched play with just the generals handbook and free  rules pdf. Similarly you could play narrative with just the setting book. Whilst they work together they aren’t the same 

But how would you be able to play with just the general hand book, if there are all those changes to magic, scenarios, spells and relics? Is the stuff that is going to be updated put as a free pdf somewhere, because then I don't understand why they put books in the starter sets.

 

7 hours ago, EMMachine said:

Did you see the Boxes for Spire of Dawn and Blightwar?

No I don't play any of those factions.

[Melcavuk]

GW have stated that the basic rules will be available for free, for magic some suspect that we will see a new magic supplement along with the endless spell models so that possibly entirely seperate to either book.

The books are in starter sets because they're... starter sets. The models to a random newcomer arent the only lure, its the rich lore of the setting thats meant to get people hooked on the game. By providing background aswell as models GW want to recruit hobbyists who stay with the game for years/decades rather than a one and done purchase.

[EMMachine]

4 hours ago, blueshirtman said:

But isn't this spliting a rule book in half. In one book you have the 2.0 updated rules and in the other you have the points costs. Makes little sense as both could be in the same book.

The point is, that the rulebook should be constant about 3-5 years, while the Generals Handbook will come out every year. putting both together would mean, that a large significant part of the book would be outdated after one year and so it would be dead weight during the next years.

[Aelfric]

Maybe the main AOS 2nd edition rule book will, besides the new rule system and magic, contain the three ways to play information that has, thus far, been part of the GHB.  This will free up lots of space in the next, and subsequent, GHBs for more faction and warscroll updates, scenarios and points, etc.  

[HorticulusTGA]

9 hours ago, blueshirtman said:

But isn't this spliting a rule book in half. In one book you have the 2.0 updated rules and in the other you have the points costs. Makes little sense as both could be in the same book.

There never was a Rulebook with (up to date) point costs IIRC (in old WFB nor 40k). 

Points are meant to be found in Battletome, and updated yearly in the GHB (that's IMO one of its greatest "value"). 

Going by old WFB and new 40k, the Core Book is meant to present the narrative, setting and models, the core rules and the three ways to play, and maybe add options like "advanced rules". 

So in order to play Matched Play you'll need the core rules (free PDF or Core Book), your army Battletome and/or the current GHB ( if your army doesn't yet have a Battletome).

[AlphaKennyThing]

9 hours ago, blueshirtman said:

But isn't this spliting a rule book in half. In one book you have the 2.0 updated rules and in the other you have the points costs. Makes little sense as both could be in the same book.

The book in the box is better being seen as the 'lore book'. I reckon it's going to be a weighty tome like its Dark Imperium counterpart, beautifully presented with page after page on the lore of each faction, how they've been affected by Death and the like. It may give some spoilers on what factions will be sticking around for the long haul, and perhaps which Destruction factions are going to be the next focus. It will likely contain endless maps of each realm and a few stories and descriptions of key cities.

Rules wise, it'll likely contain the core rules, and an overview of each of the three ways to play, possibly Skirmish rules too but that may be hopeful. There will be battleplans for each type of play, with maybe a couple of Matched Play scenarios from the old GHB with a couple of new ones, but I highly doubt it will contain points, and the Matched Play section will end with a recommendation to buy GHB2018 and all future editions.

It will probably contain rules on playing in all the different realms, though, and potentially all the spells you have access to. That may come in a future supplement.