Age of Sigmar: Second Edition

[Ollie Grimwood]

Just now, Enoby said:

They gain from Look Out Sir!, but also lose from it. My Khorne army, for example, only gains from it. 

Not getting much character sniping in with your Khorgoraths then ?

[KillagoreFaceslasha]

So next week's pre-orders are only the shadespire warbands without the cards. My guess is that this is only a breather week and that the new edition will launch the next weekend, the starter box will most likely launch  the second of june, considering I heard there's going to be a reunion for store managers around 4th-5th of june and they have to have painted a death themed table.

[Enoby]

3 minutes ago, Ollie Grimwood said:

Not getting much character sniping in with your Khorgoraths then ?

Ah, forgot about the time they took down Archaon in my first turn  

 

(That reminds me, I don't think I've ever managed to wound something with Skaarac's shooting attack. Not very important to the discussion, but I feel sorry for the poor guy - he doesn't live up to his model) 

[Elmir]

What's that? A bit of extra character protection in the shooting phase?

*dances Vanhell's dance macabre*

Seems like a perfect amount of tweaking. Not enough to make character shooting impossible, just less effective. And just enough to prevent silly 6+ mortal wound abilities to procc when you try to do hard shots. 

[Karol]

2 hours ago, Killax said:

What I do not understand is where your assumption comes from that they are supposed to be a supportive element or that their players are treated like second-rate customer

If they can't melee and can't use magic, and are all about shoting, and the two first are suppose to be the new focus of the game and the third one is suppose to be nerfed, then KO stop being an actual army and turn in to some sort of enddrigger ally to other order armies. It also turns those people who bought KO with real money in to very sad people, because not only is their good stuff being nerfed, but they also can't participate in the stuff which is suppose to be good and fun in 2.0. IMO this turns them in to second-rate customers.

 

1 hour ago, Ollie Grimwood said:

Shooting hasn’t gone away and if chargers do strike first they have two fast, flying melee units to capitalise on it. I’ve never used them (because I don’t do stunties) but the weapons on the Sky Wardens/ Edrinriggers look like they’d be fairly useful.

But that is the only good thing about the whole faction, from what all KO seem to be playing their option was to either play a clowncar list or not play KO at all. If half of that gets nerfed, then they are left with Battletome Enddriggers. And that can't be good. I play khorn and I wouldn't want my faction to turn in to spam 200bloodletters faction.

[Killax]

2 minutes ago, Karol said:

If they can't melee and can't use magic, and are all about shoting, and the two first are suppose to be the new focus of the game and the third one is suppose to be nerfed, then KO stop being an actual army and turn in to some sort of enddrigger ally to other order armies. It also turns those people who bought KO with real money in to very sad people, because not only is their good stuff being nerfed, but they also can't participate in the stuff which is suppose to be good and fun in 2.0. IMO this turns them in to second-rate customers.

Poor assumption. You can shoot on targets you are in combat with. Nothing in core rules leads to army nerfs. Cost balance is decided by cost. Second rate customers dont excist.

[Karol]

If any army works only, because it can cripple characters of other armies with shoting  or that its "counter" to priests and mages is shoting them, then the changes are a very hard nerf. Even models with weaker shoting, that could have charged one thing, and shot a hero hiding behind them got worse.  Getting stuck with a KO army in 60 skins or vulkits, or some getting charged yourself is a huge debuff to the army.

But it isn't just KO, what about those people that bought 3x3 javelin prosecutors and those big crossbow stormcasts, all to hunt heros. Or fulminators that charged and cleared chaff, but wrecked heros or other units behind them. They are left with high cost, in money, units that no longer work.

[Warboss Gorbolg]

GW has said that a new GHB is on the way as well, which means points adjustments are coming. I truly can't understand a lot of negative conjecture about certain factions right now.

[Sleboda]

9 hours ago, Jamopower said:

Of course the sceanarios will have big impact,

Comment: ftw.

So true.

[Infernalslayer]

Love the "Watch out Sir" for AOS 2.0 .

It seems as balanced as it can get right now considering the differences between AoS and 40K

[Hoseman]

I like the changes. I usually play without allegiance abilities but maybe I try some with my new idoneth. 

The new watch out thing works passively or as it is an ability we have to use a command point??

[Sigwarus]

KO will be fine. We're looking at massive point reduction on the overpriced ships. And about shooting. Nothing really changes. Just focus on the units first. The army can still shoot the opposition to peaces in a few turns. 

[Ollie Grimwood]

32 minutes ago, Karol said:

But that is the only good thing about the whole faction, from what all KO seem to be playing their option was to either play a clowncar list or not play KO at all. If half of that gets nerfed, then they are left with Battletome Enddriggers. And that can't be good. I play khorn and I wouldn't want my faction to turn in to spam 200bloodletters faction.

That’s not down the rules it’s down to costing which is dealt with by the GHB. I also suspect that in most circumstances the changes to shooting won’t actually effect them or anyone else else for that matter. 

[Killax]

3 minutes ago, Ollie Grimwood said:

That’s not down the rules it’s down to costing which is dealt with by the GHB. I also suspect that in most circumstances the changes to shooting won’t actually effect them or anyone else else for that matter. 

If 40K is the inspiration its even possible flying units can shoot outside of the combat they are in. There it actually makes sence aswell.

[BURF1]

Why do they keep trying to use 'monster' to balance these rules? Like half of all the big stuff in the game doesn't use the monster keyword. They just made the Celestial Hurricanum, Blood wrack shrine, Slaughter Cauldron, Eidolon, etc -1 to hit for no real reason.

[Edgecoc]

On 5/19/2018 at 1:22 PM, Ar-Pharazôn said:

I enjoy the subtle hint that a Slaanesh release is coming. Depravity points sound interesting. 

There is nothing subtle about a release coming from Slaanesh.

[Carnelian]

6 minutes ago, BURF1 said:

Why do they keep trying to use 'monster' to balance these rules? Like half of all the big stuff in the game doesn't use the monster keyword. They just made the Celestial Hurricanum, Blood wrack shrine, Slaughter Cauldron, Eidolon, etc -1 to hit for no real reason.

Hopefully they'll be adding them in as mortis engine is not a monster either

[Aelfric]

6 hours ago, Infeston said:

Sorry if I have to say that, but this is exactly what melee armies are facing with shooting at the moment. If a shooting-heavy army gets the double turn you can only watch as your whole army gets rekked one after another. It is just the same way as you said, but with shooting.

I have to ask: "Are the people complaining about chargers striking first only people who rely heavily on shooting or are there also people with melee-armies complaining about this change"?

Because I have the feeling that some people just complain, because they can't do massive damage with their shooty armies anymore, whereas people who had to play melee armies would be very happy that they can now compete better.

Well, some armies are designed to be more shooty than melee.  If we want a game where all armies can compete more or less on a level playing field then it makes no sense to create rules that create an imbalance between different play styles.  Would you rather there was no shooting in the game  and we all just played melee armies and ran at each other?  I am happy to admit that I play Wanderers and one of their main strengths is shooting, but their shooting has not been overpowered.  They have good movement, esp after GHB17, but they are weak in melee.  If you take away their shooting capacity, all they'll be able to do is run around a lot.  Facing a melee army is challenging and that is part of the fun.  Facing another shooty army presents very different challenges, but is also fun.  I want to see a balance, so that we can have a diversity of armies and play styles, which can only be good for the game.

[Sleboda]

From the LO,S! article:

"... given the relatively small number of ranged units in Warhammer Age of Sigmar, they should retain a niche as hero killers ..."

 

That's troubling. It gives insight to the thought process in the studio. It does not matter how many shooting units are in AoS. What matters is how the ones that exist perform.

There is little comfort to the player when his opponent kills his heroes all in turn 1 and he says "Stinks, I know, but don't feel bad, I only used the few really good options to kill them."

 

It reminds me of old-GW thinking when they would make a powerful thing and just assume most players would not take it, when in fact pretty much everyone would.

[Brightstar]

2 hours ago, Infeston said:

Nobody ever said that command points are cancer. People only complain because some command points are tied to battalions.

I have not seen a single comment saying that "command points are cancer" at all. It is not the mechanic itself which is criticized, but the way to obtain command points. 

I have also never read a comment using such words as "cancer" etc. 

More people are overreacting  about the reactions than the reactions itself! 

Exactly. And no one has ever given a good reason as why CP should be ties to battalions - when there is a dozen more interesting ways they could habe done it - besides: 'it'll only be 1 extra because nobody uses them so quit whining" then accuse us of supposition even though saying there will only be 1 extra is also supposition. With the maggotkin write-up I think there is stronger evidence now that we may be getting more then 1 extra. How? Have to wait and see. 

The new look out sir is brilliantly done. 

[bsharitt]

35 minutes ago, BURF1 said:

Why do they keep trying to use 'monster' to balance these rules? Like half of all the big stuff in the game doesn't use the monster keyword. They just made the Celestial Hurricanum, Blood wrack shrine, Slaughter Cauldron, Eidolon, etc -1 to hit for no real reason.

While I don't like 40k character shooting rule in general, the 10 wounds as the cut off was probably the right call and would work better here than the monster keyword.

[Aginor]

14 hours ago, bsharitt said:

While I don't like 40k character shooting rule in general, the 10 wounds as the cut off was probably the right call and would work better here than the monter keyword.

10 wounds would be weird though.

A Bastiladon could use Look Out Sir then...
Edit: a Basti isn't a hero of course. Corrected below.

Or even more silly: a huge flying guy like the Celestant Prime could!
....except....wait. He can use it now as he doesn't have the Monster keyword...  GW and their SCE I guess... ?

[bsharitt]

2 minutes ago, Aginor said:

A Bastiladon could use Look Out Sir then...

Except a bastiladon isn't a hero...

[DanielFM]

You know what's great? LoS makes impossible to trigger SCE Longstrikes Headshot (mortal wounds on 6+). Thus, their role as character snipers is destroyed. Great! They can still do mortal wounds against infantry, so worth 180 points for three ?

[AthlorianStoners]

15 minutes ago, Brightstar said:

Exactly. And no one has ever given a good reason as why CP should be ties to battalions - when there is a dozen more interesting ways they could habe done it - besides: 'it'll only be 1 extra because nobody uses them so quit whining" then accuse us of supposition even though saying there will only be 1 extra is also supposition. With the maggotkin write-up I think there is stronger evidence now that we may be getting more then 1 extra. How? Have to wait and see. 

The new look out sir is brilliantly done. 

I think if artefacts requiring CP proves true then it’s probably going to end up being a non factor anyway, or at least isn’t anything new.