GHB2018 Wishlist

[PJetski]

What are you hoping to see change in GHB2018? Which units are you hoping get some point changes? Justify your reasons!

Game Systems:

New Allegiance-Neutral Spell Lores
More "City" Allegiances similar to the Firestorm campaign
The number of artifacts you can bring is no longer tied to Battalions. Instead, the number of artifacts is based on the game size:

• Up to 1000 points: 1 artifact
• Up to 1500: 2 artifacts
• Up to 2000: 3 artifacts
• 2500+: 4 artifacts.

Point changes:

Dire Wolves: 60 > 80
10 wounds with a 5+ save for 60 points that is fast, has 11 attacks @ 4+/4+ (with a charge bonus) and its SUMMONABLE so it can be healed and resurrected? for only 60 points?? These puppers are just a little bit too cost effective.

Prosecutors with Celestial Hammers: 100 > 80
100 points for 6 wounds and lackluster damage. They want to get in melee but they crumble once they get there. I think these guys are due a small buff!

Vanguard-Hunters: 140 > 120
They have a cool deployment ability, but their poor attacks are not good enough to justify their cost. 

Chameleon Skinks: 120 > 100
These guys used to have a cool niche that justified their cost, but now that Seraphon have their teleportation battle trait there are very few reasons to bring them, and even less reason to spend 120 points for 5 wounds and 10 bad shooting attacks.

Skink Starseer: 200 > 140
I didn't understand why they increased him to 200 after they added the rule of 1 that made it so his insight couldn't effect turn order rolls. Slanns can now also take a command trait to cast his signature spell, further diminishing his value. At 140 he would be nearly double the cost of a Skink Starpriest, which I think is fair.

Frostlord on Stonehorn: 460 > 440
Frostlord on Thundertusk: 460 > 440
Huskard on Stonehorn: 380 > 360
Huskard on Thundertusk: 380 > 360
Beastriders on Stonehorn: 360 > 340
Beastriders on Thundertusk: 360 > 340
Yhetees and Frost Sabres are now Battleline if you have Beastclaw Raiders allegiance, instead of being tied to specific generals.
It's no secret that Beastclaw are struggling right now. The changes to the Destruction battle trait have hampered the speed of Thundertusks and the warscroll errata made it a lot easier to kill the Stonehorns. I think slight cost reductions on their expensive monsters and opening more Battleline options will help re-invigorate this faction. The changes to Frostlords put them in line with the cost of a VLOZD, which is a similarly threatening monster.

Warscroll Updates

Saurus Guard: 1 wound > 2 wounds; 100 points > 120 points.
Stormfiends: For every 3 models in the unit, 1 can take a Warpfire Projector; 300 points > 260 points

[generalchaos34]

I'd like to see a "faction" rule for all of the irregular Aelves factions, i.e. Order Draconis, White Lions, Swifthawk, etc. That way they can see play in a way that is meaningful. 

I'd also like to see collegiate arcane and Ironweld get some sort of battleline unit added in so they could either be their own army, or possibly be recast as a "support army" where in they either override typical ally restrictions or get some sort of special bonus for comprising a specific  point percentage in a general purpose order army. 

[BURF1]

@PJetski See, this is the problem with proposing point changes, you end up in nitpick territory and I don't have the self control to stop myself:

Absolutely not on all of the allegiance changes suggested. Neutral spell lores will end up being so bland they're not worth taking, or 1 or 2 of them with have a weird turbo-synergy for some faction that unbalances everything.  The city allegiances were a terrible mistake and they should be retroactively deleted, not added too. Like we need more poorly thought out rules creating unnecessary bookwork and breaking certain combos.  Allowing 3 artefacts into a 2000pt game with no sort of drawback would be devastating. 

Disagree on direwolves. At 80 you just won't see them, at 60 they're fantastic.

Prosecutor change is fair

Hunters should be the same price as Liberators. Even with all their special nonsense they're no better than SCE's standard battleline

No opinion on seraphon. I will say that Kroak should probably go up if anything else goes down.

Beastclaw changes are fair EXCEPT the huskard on thundertusk. The huskard is fine at 380, the healing ability makes it the best of the 3 so he SHOULD be the most expensive, even if his raw DPS is slightly worse than the frostlord.

The saurus guard change is Seraphon wishlisting.

So to open myself up to similar criticisms:

Every battalion that went up in the GHB except Vanguard wing, Gore Pilgrims, Changehost, Aetherstrike, hammerstrike, Kunnin ruck, and Gnarlroot should come back down to what they were before. Some should even go down further.

About half of the Fyreslayer points drops should be reverted.

Kroak should go up.

Balewind should go up.

Skyfires and Changehost should both go up.

Blue and Brimsone horrors should go up

Concussors, Hurricane crossbows, Palladors, and the drakesworn templar should all go down

Almost all of destruction should come down

Vargheists and bloodknights should come down

Kharadron basically need to be reworked from the ground up. ClownCar is too good, everything else is FAR too bad.

 

[Tittliewinks22]

Kharadron:

Gunhaulers reduced to 160

Frigate reduced to 220

GW clearly overvalued the transport capabilities of the airships. Gunhaulers is worse than a Ironweald cannon but 40 points higher???

Would also appreciate if they undid the warscroll change to the Thunderers... I play WYSIWYG and just finished making mine a week before they became unplayable...

Or maybe just make a new KO book... Cuz ya know, selling a product that has 14 warscroll revisions from FAQ and an entire warscroll change from another book makes the army unplayable using the rules in the book for any non-casual group as is.

Blows my mind that they still sell the book and unit cards unadjusted... 

If it was out for a year and needed nerfing or changes I wouldn't mind, but 3 months?!?

*End rant*

Other changes I would like to see is adding in a generic lookout sir rule to small heroes (similar to the necromancer).  I always thought this worked well in WHFB.

 Also two new rules of 1:

Only attempt a prayer once per phase.

No unit can be affected by the same buff rule more than once. Rather than constantly having to add in extra lines of text to clarify each rule, and errata old ones to match... Just blanket rule of 1 for any beneficial buff.

[PJetski]

Gunhaulers should be 200 and not have the Behemoth tag

[NurglesFirstChosen]

Blightlords need a substantial price reduction. 

[Imperial]

Main Rules:

1 Base to base distance measure and normal second/third floor rules 

2 Shootind rules from 40k (cant target hero if he not monster or closest model)

3 First turn from 40k rules

Advanced Rules(Matched play first of all): 

1 Neutral lore spells 

2 Better terrain rules

2.1 Ballewind vortex unsummon rules. If hero can unbind spell he can try unsummon Ballewind vortex. Roll two dice and add unbind bonus of hero. Hero on vortex can try stop him by rolling two dice and add cast bonus.

3 Last and most important Maelstorm of War system from 40k

 

Points:

Common:

1 Some battalion price reduction if apply 3 option from Main Rules block

Scenery: 

Ballewind Vortex 100 -> 150-200

Chaos:

Tzaangors 180/450 -> 160/420

Gaunt Summoner & Chaos Familiars 120 -> 160

Gaunt Summoner of Tzeentch 120 -> 140

Brim/Blue Horrors +10-20 points 

Tzaangor Skyfires 200 -> 220

Tzaangor Enlightened on Foot 100-120

Flamers of Tzeentch 180 -> 160

Destruction:

Aleguzzler Gargant:

Aleguzzler Gargant 170 -> 160

BCR:

Stonehorn Beastriders 360 -> 320

ThundertuskBeastriders 360 -> 340

Frostlord on Stonehorn 460 -> 420

Frostlord on Thundertusk 460 -> 440

Huskard on Stonehorn 380 -> 340

Huskard on Thundertusk 380 -> 360

Icebrow Hunter 140 -> 120

Icefall Yhetees 120 -> 80 (Worst BCR unit now)

Why? No buff in destruction now and TOO MANY -1 TO HIT IN THIS GAME!

Ironjawz:

Orruk Warchanter 80 -> 60 or change +1 to Hit to work until next hero phase (Hello slaughterpriest and etc!)

Orruk Weirdnob Shaman 120 -> 80 (Why? Gaunt summoner and etc!)

Orruk Ardboys 180/450 -> 160/420

Orruk Brutes 180 -> 160/600

Gordrakk, the Fist of Gork 620 -> 560-580 or fix for new second level battalions for take him in

Megaboss on Maw-krusha 460 -> 420-440 (He can't compare to behemoths in new books)

Spiderfan grots:

Arachnarok Spider 280 -> 240

Grot Big Boss on Gigantic Spider 100 -> 80

Grot Spider Riders 100/540 -> 80/420

Why? No buff in destruction now and TOO MANY -1 TO HIT IN THIS GAME!

Troggoths:

Fellwater Troggoths 180 -> 150

Rockgut Troggoths 180 -> 150

Sourbreath Troggoths 180 -> 150

Order:

Fireslayers:

Auric Runesmiter 80 -> 120

Why only runesmiter? Because if we will up all units to previos price FS will drop down to tier 3 again and will be not playable. They dont have nothing before ghb2 so this is fair price for this faction w/o new battletome.

Kharadron Overlords:

Grundstok Gunhauler 220 -> 180

Arkanaut Frigate 280 -> 240

Arkanaut Ironclad 480 -> 440

Seraphon:

Bastiladon 280 -> 320 or update defence ability like nighthaunt

Stormcast Eternals:

Vanguard-Hunters 140 -> 100

Vanguard-Palladors 220 -> 180

Sylvaneth:

Kurnoth Hunters with bows 180

Kurnoth Hunters with swords 180

Kurnoth Hunters with scythes 220

[Kirjava13]

10 hours ago, PJetski said:

Stormfiends: For every 3 models in the unit, 1 can take a Warpfire Projector; 300 points > 260 points

I'll stab ya m8

[Ritual]

There are two things I want any they're both from 40k:

No more double turns

No more targeting heroes if they're no the closest model

[Gaz Taylor]

Just to remind some of you that if you want this to get through to the studio, mention it on the Age of Sigmar Facebook page - https://www.facebook.com/GWWarhammerAgeofSigmar/

They do read the topics on here, but the best route using Facebook as it will filter through to them. Also if you get chance to be at the Open Day this weekend, you can mention it then.  

[Trayanee]

59 minutes ago, Ritual said:

There are two things I want any they're both from 40k:

No more double turns

No more targeting heroes if they're no the closest model

Abilities of many heroes are too strong for this. All hero warscrolls are balanced with shooting on them being possible in mind. If you would like to change this, you would also have to rework most scrolls or for example flat increase point cost of heroes by like 50% to 100%. Please just keep this nonsense in 40k...

[Ritual]

6 minutes ago, Trayanee said:

Abilities of many heroes are too strong for this. All hero warscrolls are balanced with shooting on them being possible in mind. If you would like to change this, you would also have to rework most scrolls or for example flat increase point cost of heroes by like 50% to 100%. Please just keep this nonsense in 40k...

Many heroes is not all heroes... There are armies and army compositions out there that aren't played in many metas because once they lose their heroes to buff their other units then everything falls apart. Look at Seraphon - unless you're playing Kroaknado you rely on those heros to make your other units worth a damn, once they're gone it's pretty much just a matter of time because of the balance in needing them.

Sure, some things since the earlier books have become stronger based on the fact heros can be nuked. Earlier books, however, suffer. Maybe once those early books get revisited.

[Trayanee]

11 minutes ago, Ritual said:

Many heroes is not all heroes... There are armies and army compositions out there that aren't played in many metas because once they lose their heroes to buff their other units then everything falls apart. Look at Seraphon - unless you're playing Kroaknado you rely on those heros to make your other units worth a damn, once they're gone it's pretty much just a matter of time because of the balance in needing them.

Sure, some things since the earlier books have become stronger based on the fact heros can be nuked. Earlier books, however, suffer. Maybe once those early books get revisited.

Certainly, there is a lot to be updated in older books. People like what newest tomes brought to the table and call it meta changing, but to me, it screams power creep. The meta changes, but the real reason is that new stuff is stronger than old with Tzeentch exception because the god of change is Chuck Norris of the Mortal realms.

[ledha]

For the Kharadrons, giving to all of them the "retreat" rules of the grundstock thunderers would make them a bit better and hard to catch in melee

I have thought of LOT of changes for the stormcast, too, both in points AND in rules. I would gladly share it if some people are ready to read several hundred of words

[Lucio]

I'd like to see leaders split from heroes, and allow a hero to replace a squad leader model. Gives lesser heroes a chance not to get sniped so early on, but doesn't make them immune (spells, certain abilities, charging the unit to get into melee range etc.)

[Gecktron]

7 hours ago, Tittliewinks22 said:

Kharadron:

Gunhaulers reduced to 160

Frigate reduced to 220

GW clearly overvalued the transport capabilities of the airships. Gunhaulers is worse than a Ironweald cannon but 40 points higher???

Would also appreciate if they undid the warscroll change to the Thunderers... I play WYSIWYG and just finished making mine a week before they became unplayable...

Or maybe just make a new KO book... Cuz ya know, selling a product that has 14 warscroll revisions from FAQ and an entire warscroll change from another book makes the army unplayable using the rules in the book for any non-casual group as is.

Blows my mind that they still sell the book and unit cards unadjusted... 

If it was out for a year and needed nerfing or changes I wouldn't mind, but 3 months?!?

*End rant*

Other changes I would like to see is adding in a generic lookout sir rule to small heroes (similar to the necromancer).  I always thought this worked well in WHFB.

 Also two new rules of 1:

Only attempt a prayer once per phase.

No unit can be affected by the same buff rule more than once. Rather than constantly having to add in extra lines of text to clarify each rule, and errata old ones to match... Just blanket rule of 1 for any beneficial buff.

I basically only played Kharadrons since their release last year and I agree with some of your points. 
Gunhaulers definitively need a points drop. They are supposed to be a support unit for our larger skyvessels but they are too expensive to use them that way (you can nearly get an Ironclad instead of 2 Gunhaulers). I agree, a drop to around 160-180 points could help.

The frigate has two main flaws, the unreliable canon and the 5+ save. Again, this makes the Ironclad a better alternative.  A points drop could help, or alternatively add another attack to the skyhook/skycanon. 

In regards to the Thunderers, I made my peace with the change. I built 5 rifle thunderers and 5 with every weapon after the Handbook came out. I liked the idea of having dedicated special weapon squads (all aether-flamethrowers would have been nice) but I understand that this could have been easily abused when used together with a Aether-Khemist. The only change I would like to see is a range increase for the mortar. An all mortar squad was too extrem, but now its just a ****** aether-canon. 

But after all this, I dont think the Kharadrons need a re-worked battle tome. They managed to end some of the worst abuses in a timely fashion last year, they took some extrem steps but they were necessary for the game.
Everything now is just to make sure other play styles are viable as well. 
If GW made a new book it should include new units. They sold really well and they left enough hints and plot hooks in the book to easily add new stuff (e.g. just add a upgrade sprue to the ironclad, similar to how they did it with the Imperial Knight).

[Aeryenn]

Fix what you destroyed in ghb 2017 - battalions. Just make them playable. 

[Ratatatata]

A rule that forbids people to talk about or post about new shooting rules and their frustration with the double turns.

And maybe also a more careful re-costing of the battalions.

[Andreas]

Include prayers in rule of one. 

Take way the possibility to drop a battalion as a single drop and adjust the points cost accordently.

Ignore all talk about changing the shooting rules or the double turn. ?

[Gaz Taylor]

46 minutes ago, Aryann said:

Fix what you destroyed in ghb 2017 - battalions. Just make them playable. 

Curious but what do you think they could do? I assume it's the cost that you have an issue with? Do you think take away the one drop option for them or just repoint them?

[Garxia]

This is gonna be an impopular one:

Remove the massive regiments discount. 

Armies are getting bigger and bigger and people are almost "oblied" to use their massive regiments options to be competitive (we have even seen max liberators blobs).

[Andreas]

10 minutes ago, Gaz Taylor said:

Curious but what do you think they could do? I assume it's the cost that you have an issue with? Do you think take away the one drop option for them or just repoint them?

That is my prefered way to do it. That abillity to decide who goes first is worth maybe 150pt IMO so how do you really price battalions right now. What units can you include? What units do you have to include out side of the battalion? Do you have access to a good  second item? And the least important, what does the battalion do? ? This makes no sense to me.

[boots468]

My suggestions:

List building:

Some sort of 'rare battleline (1)' - e.g. goblin wolf riders / chaos warhounds which used to be core units in WHFB, you could use as one of your battleline options. Would open up more list building options, and be more in line with how AoS was pre-GHB. Certain allegiances are pretty limited in battleline, and this would help with that, while not throwing the doors entirely open.

General points re-assessments as per last year - though I still think keeping things in multiples of 10 works fine, no need to go more granular yet.

Perhaps points discounts on leaders taken not as your general who have their command ability baked into their costs (It is annoying to pay for something you cannot use, and most heroes are already less points efficient fighters than most units are).

 

Scenario changes:

At the moment, 95% of games seem to end in a major victory. Having draw / small win / moderate win / major win be roughly equally likely would be nice - gives the person behind on objectives more to fight for than currently.

More than 6 scenarios - perhaps some formalised version of the open play deployment / twist cards etc. They would need balancing a bit, but would help keep things fresh.

Warscroll changes:

Varanguard to be able to take Chaos marks. Lovely models, never see them.

Rules changes:

First turn to be a roll-off, with the person who finished first getting +1 or something. Currently, the choice of who goes first feels too powerful to me. A lot of builds still have to be shoehorned into taking a battalion (even with the higher costs) as that first turn choice can be so important.

[StealthKnightSteg]

3 hours ago, Trayanee said:

Abilities of many heroes are too strong for this. All hero warscrolls are balanced with shooting on them being possible in mind. If you would like to change this, you would also have to rework most scrolls or for example flat increase point cost of heroes by like 50% to 100%. Please just keep this nonsense in 40k...

Agree, Untargetable hero's like in 40k is not the way, but maybe a -1 To hit hero's who are not the closest model? Based on wounds like 40k is maybe not entirely good.. so maybe based on footprint versus the models inbetween? 40 mm bases of the troops in between versus a dracoth base will not eligable for the -1to hit.. Just ball parking ideas

[Broken Netcode]

I just want to see dispossessed actually being playable. This grumbling old fella is sick of old school dwarfs being that bad!