The big step into 8th edition 40k

[KillagoreFaceslasha]

31 minutes ago, daedalus81 said:

I'm all in.  I've played 5 games already and it's brilliant.  

I know this might burn the ears of some AoS folks, but I do hope the incorporate some of the design philosophy (not wholesale lifting of rules) here.  

I honestly doubt anyone will be really "burnt". Improving constantly a game is nothing but good.

[daedalus81]

42 minutes ago, KillagoreFaceslasha said:

I honestly doubt anyone will be really "burnt". Improving constantly a game is nothing but good.

You'd be surprised how many people are utterly terrified of change.

[KillagoreFaceslasha]

Just now, daedalus81 said:

You'd be surprised how many people are utterly terrified of change.

Here's a thing: change per se is terrifying. Improvement, and properly communicated at that, can be met with a bit of distrust at first.

[daedalus81]

Just now, KillagoreFaceslasha said:

Here's a thing: change per se is terrifying. Improvement, and properly communicated at that, can be met with a bit of distrust at first.

I agree and disagree.  They're over communicating the changes to 40K and people are still being willfully obtuse about it (over on Dakka).

[Nin Win]

AoS and 8th edition 40k are already so close.  The differences would be barely a page of changes.  They would, however, have big implications (the shooting into combat thing, overwatch, 1" vs 3" area denial) though, even if they are very simple differences.

I'm all for a unified rules set and allowing the datasheets and warscrolls (and all the related rules like battallions and allegiance abilities and the like) to be the stuff that differentiates each game.

[WoollyMammoth]

3 hours ago, Nin Win said:

40k are already so close.  The differences would be barely a page of changes.  They would, however, have big implications (the shooting into combat thing, overwatch, 1" vs 3" area denial) though, even if they are very simple differences.

I'm all for a unified rules set and allowing the datasheets and warscrolls (and all the related rules like battallions and allegiance abilities and the like) to be the stuff that differentiates each game.

@Spiky Norman
Per my local GW manager: no the rules are not and will not be free. The free rules are a rumor.

There are two restaurants that serve equal quality but different styles of food:
- Restaurant A is giving away free sandwiches, free utensils or has an awesome buffet for $25
- Restaurant B has an awesome buffet for $60 but you need to buy the utensils for $25
Where are you going to eat?

Your argument is that its unfair to compare the expensive buffet to the free sandwiches. Not if you want a sandwich .. or  just want to eat - or if you would just rather save $60 on something you can get free somewhere else.

@Arkiham
I agree but you are acting like this is the only way to do business. They are making tons of money by giving away free rules for their expensive plastic crack.

A better analogy is that the drug dealers were selling expensive drugs and giving them away in free bags. Then they realized they got enough people hooked that they can start charging for the bags they come in, and the stupid addicts have no choice but to pay for the extra overhead.

@roberto
@Killagore Faceslasha
@Sactownbri
@AlphaKennyThing
Not debating that the game doesn't look fun, it looks very fun. My only point is AoS is fun too, and wondering if its worth making another new army and breaking focus from AoS, and considering how AoS might be hurt by X% of the players to start playing a different system instead.  If you already have a 40k army, of course you should enjoy the new edition.

But, if you don't already have a 40k army, there are some reasons to give 40k the cold shoulder.

@Sleboda
You are missing the context. I went over many reasons why you don't need a book. If you don't need a book, then a stack of books is useless. Like a big bag of dirt.

@Captain Marius
Agreed, just debating whether to save the $$$$$$$$$$$$ with patience for awesome AoS stuff and updated rules.

@Gauche
I'll be playing AoS all the time! I think AoS will get rebooted with GH2. 

@RuneBrush
Hopefully you are right but according to my local GW manager, this is all false rumor. They were not told this at the 8th ed training. Datasheets should be in the box .. once all the boxes get updated. Probably a long process like AoS. The $25 datasheet book is not bad except instead of being an option like AoS, its mandatory. If the rules and datasheets all come up in a future app, well they are just trying to get us to pay for things they are about to give away for free which is ... shady.

@wayniac
Not "unethical" - just not cool. You can charge whatever you want for art & literature. Charging $420 for the SE rule book is not unethical, but most of us can just ignore it. When the normal book costs $420, it wont be unethical, but I just wont be playing warhammer.  

I hope they update AoS with some of these 40k rules as well. I might make a post about that actually.

**********

Don't get me wrong, I'll be playing 40k, just to a certain extent. I'm looking at doing a little death guard but mostly supplementing by improving my Nurgle Deamons, which will benefit my AoS hobby at the same time (I have a suspicion its going to be the year of Nurgle as well!)

Someone has to point out that its not all roses. I just like to see how the community feels about this stuff.







 

[rokapoke]

@WoollyMammoth, I'm not sure too many people here have said it's all roses. That said, I'm 100% positive that the TGA forum is not the place to dump all over something. Particularly since this is an Age of Sigmar forum, not a Warhammer 40000 forum. 

[karch]

On 2017-6-4 at 9:27 AM, WoollyMammoth said:

So how does the community feel? Are most people ready to dive in without looking back, or are there a lot of you feeling hesitation, or even overall disinterest? Are most AoS exclusives going to merge into dual-system hybrids? Is becoming an AoS player exclusively going to be a thing of the past, or is this just a fad hype that will die down in the coming months? Will the GH2 make the AoS fans forget about 40k, or is AoS going to take a big hit as large numbers of our ranks take up bolters and sink our wallets into pricey new Sci-Fi armies?

 

I don't feel good at all. Mostly because I've never cared about 40K and most of the people starting to dip their toe in AoS are former 40K players.

If 40K 8th turns out to be good enough I fear they'll be back to their main game. Especially if game mechanics overlap to a significant degree.

 

[daedalus81]

5 hours ago, karch said:

I don't feel good at all. Mostly because I've never cared about 40K and most of the people starting to dip their toe in AoS are former 40K players.

If 40K 8th turns out to be good enough I fear they'll be back to their main game. Especially if game mechanics overlap to a significant degree.

 

I don't think you need to stress.  GW is self aware now.  I'm sure we'll see some very interesting things soon enough.

[Sactownbri]

@Wolleymammoth

Per my local GW manager: no the rules are not and will not be free. The free rules are a rumor.

 

Odd, the Sacramento GW manager stated that the basic rules would be free. Advanced rules, scenarios, etc. are book only. And model rules would continue to be included in the box with the models. Also that the current free reign of posting model rules is just to get 8th started and will change with the first codecies. 

 

Ive no idea personally so... salt.

[dgiant2000]

This part of the warhammer 40k FAQ on the community website says they are definitely free:

 

How can I get the rules?
We’re going to make it easier than ever to get your hands on the rules and start playing. The core rules for the game will be free, and you’ll have several options on how you get your hands on the full rulebook. Watch this space for more.

 

This is only the core rules (ie the equivalent of the AOS 4 page rulesheet). Individual unit rules - ie warscrolls - will not be free as they are currently with AOS, for those you need to buy a book. This has also been discussed on warhammer tv a fair bit the last few weeks.

[Soulsmith]

I can agree on there being the risk in certain scenes that it will cause AOS players who were testing it out from 40K will just be lost back into 40K. But I am otherwise curious. I played a tester at my local and it was fun. The big thing for me is the balancing. I wanted no part of 40K as it was simply marines, more marines, ad mech, sometimes chaos marines, the occasional tau gunline. So many armies just utterly dropped off the radar and became obsolete as they kept releasing stuff for the Imperial forces over and over and over. The factions which interest me are Orks and Dark Eldar, there was no way I was getting near that. Now, it seems like they've become much stronger, and I am curious about finally trying out some Drukhari. I have a really neat idea for a scheme in my head but it'd really stretch my abilities as a painter.

Also, the dropping of the books is only good. I remember a game at my local where someone had ad mech, skitarii, forgeworld, and knights. Thats like, £120 of book. For a game. Insane. My AoS force is free on my phone!

EDIT: Does anyone know what the limits are for matched? Like 2 troops at 1000 points etc. Can't find any photos of that page of the book, but I have all the Drukhari rules since someone leaked the pages.

[RuneBrush]

12 minutes ago, Soulsmith said:

EDIT: Does anyone know what the limits are for matched? Like 2 troops at 1000 points etc. Can't find any photos of that page of the book, but I have all the Drukhari rules since someone leaked the pages.

It's all based on the force organisation chart you're using.  You don't necessarily have to even use troops in some

[Soulsmith]

1 minute ago, RuneBrush said:

It's all based on the force organisation chart you're using.  You don't necessarily have to even use troops in some

Are these the detachments? I assume Command Points are used for things faction specific similar to abilities?

[RuneBrush]

Just now, Soulsmith said:

Are these the detachments? I assume Command Points are used for things faction specific similar to abilities?

You're right, they are now detachments (apologies for any confusion - was just editing my post to fix and you got in there first )

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/05/05/new-warhammer-40000-battle-forged-armiesgw-homepage-post-4/

Command points are spent during the game to trigger Stratagems such as allowing a re-roll at an opportune moment.  I fully expect extra thematic ones to appear as we see new Codexes.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/05/14/new-warhammer-40000-stratagems-may14gw-homepage-post-4/

[Soulsmith]

Thanks @RuneBrush! In fairness I have been, and probably always will, call AP rend

So, by my reasoning, since they all have keyword Eldar, I could run Ynnari Cult using Eldar, Drukhari, and Harlequins without voiding anything? Because that would be grand! Like Drukhari the most, but certain Craftworld stuff is cool (and I know DE have no psykers), and harlequins have some crazy units.

[karch]

1 hour ago, Auticus said:

Our scene has always since the dawn of the plastic sun been all about 40k, with WHFB being an afterthought.

This won't change anything for us.  Our campaign event in the summer will have people playing AOS.  After that everyone will be 100% into 40k.

For AOS to even be a thing where I am, you either have to travel to adepticon or a regional tournament to play, or you wait until our summer campaign.  I don't know why that is, and I wish it were different, but its been that way since AOL was everyone's primary internet carrier.

Yeah, that's what I meant. Over here 40K and WHFB communities barely overlapped, every now and then there's someone who would try the other but for the most part each group kept to themselves.

AoS was the excuse for some people in the 40k community to try out some fantasy, while the bulk of the fantasy crowd kept playing square based stuff. They weren't the most regular players but it offered us a little break from playing each other time and again, and most importantly we saw them as future prospects.

I fear we've lost them for good.

 

[KillagoreFaceslasha]

40 minutes ago, karch said:

Yeah, that's what I meant. Over here 40K and WHFB communities barely overlapped, every now and then there's someone who would try the other but for the most part each group kept to themselves.

AoS was the excuse for some people in the 40k community to try out some fantasy, while the bulk of the fantasy crowd kept playing square based stuff. They weren't the most regular players but it offered us a little break from playing each other time and again, and most importantly we saw them as future prospects.

I fear we've lost them for good.

 

And are you sure of it? I think people are being too afraid. Sure, maybe they aren't there as much to play as often but they have the minis. While not as frequently you can bet your ass they will from time to time use them too.

[daedalus81]

1 hour ago, Soulsmith said:

Thanks @RuneBrush! In fairness I have been, and probably always will, call AP rend

So, by my reasoning, since they all have keyword Eldar, I could run Ynnari Cult using Eldar, Drukhari, and Harlequins without voiding anything? Because that would be grand! Like Drukhari the most, but certain Craftworld stuff is cool (and I know DE have no psykers), and harlequins have some crazy units.

Yes, buuut you could forfeit other more strict bonuses in the future.

[Mikester1487]

My local store has 40k on Friday night's and I still avoid it because the atmosphere is just not a fun one to be around.  The new set has me itching to pull the trigger, but the fact that I couldn't find someone I enjoy games with to play a round holds me back.

I moved from 40k 5th ed to fantasy 8th ed and didn't look back.  AOS is where I'll stay.

[TheOtherJosh]

They generalized the Detachments into Force Org charts. There are ~14 of them. They give you additional command points.

And there are things you can do in each turn with the Command Points. Much like Abilities in the Hero phase.

I haven't seen faction special ones yet. Perhaps those will show up when they do proper Codecs.

[karch]

12 hours ago, KillagoreFaceslasha said:

And are you sure of it? I think people are being too afraid. Sure, maybe they aren't there as much to play as often but they have the minis. While not as frequently you can bet your ass they will from time to time use them too.

40K hype is in full force. Maybe it will subside, but in the end we're being more pressured to take 40k (which is not going to happen) rather than them showing up for a game of AoS.

[Killax]

I feel some AoS players will remain but certainly, 40K will pull back the older 40K players. My brutal honest opinion on new 40K is that its rules are like AoS but better/improved. So if your looking for a game with a little more depth, tactical variation and a massive selection of models to pick from 40K offers so much more that AoS cant really compete with.

The thing is, and thats my hope, is that most of the Core rules in AoS could improve while all unit designs would remain largely the same. In fact the GH allready has tinkered with some of the Core rules and I honestly hope GW will consider doing this more. Obviously changes for costs for units will be a logical next step but AoS suffers from the fact that in many cases it's written so 'easy' that the intend becomes unclear. If AoS was full of consistent rules design this would be easy to resolve but to add to that fire it's not consistent in its rules approaches at all.

So in order for AoS to keep it it should improve itself, thats all  . The basic unit design for AoS works fine, 9/10 units are costed more or less like they should and likewise some pieces should certainly be adressed in cost, same applies for Battalions. When this is done however all we really need is Battletome's who add something to the depth of the game, such is seen in the newer ones.

[wayniac]

I just plan to play both like I always wanted to and did some 20 years ago.  I have some friends that only play AOS, some that only play 40k and some that dabble in both like me, so I think I will be fine.

[BunkhouseBuster]

I am super excited for 40k 8th Edition!  I look forward to fielding my orange Space Wolves for the first time in a year, and my Guardsmen in over 4 years, getting my Necron army finished that has never been played, and starting up a new Primaris and Death Guard army!

I am still stoked for AoS too.  The narrative options in each setting are what keep me going, and I have really been enjoying my AoS games.  If I ever get the time and money for it, I have about 4 or 5 other army project ideas for Age of Sigmar that I would like to put together.  Maybe once I am an empty nester in the next couple decades?