Gauche

Took a week off from gaming but I think the Haves and Have Nots of KO are pretty understood by now. I don't foresee a pure shooting list as being able to work. I mean I've taken the Shootiest lists possible and it's still a massive slog against a lot of armies. Right now the game is totally based around being as unkillable as possible, Rend 1 is effectively useless except for killing chaff and so on. We simply can't punch through things like 3+ Save Heroes, 2/3+ Save units, etc. with any appreciable ease. I still like Barak-Nar, the Unbinds are so important against every Faction that's doing well and having a ton of CP on Turn 1 has been way more valuable than I expected. Pretty much every-game I can At the Double a unit to develop it, use Redeploy to avoid some Turn 1 crack back, and have no shortage of AoD/AoA. I've been disappointed in the Alpha-Beast Pack, the fact that it goes off before Priority is decided makes it way less useful for us. I'd still take it in double Ironclad because what else is there but otherwise ****** it. My gut feeling is KO has to make Gotrek work so I'm going back to that. We need the Mortal Wounds, we need the zoning, and we need the Rend 2. Otherwise we just lose to the armies that build for durability and stand on Objectives (SCE, MoN, etc.) while still having the problem matchups. This takes away from the Alpha Strike of a Zilfin list or a double Ironclad/ABP list but I just don't see a way around that. The only other options are rely on 6's from Endrinmasters or SiaB to generate Mortals but both methods have huge downsides. Right now my sticking point is whether to run a FULL BattleBoat (5 Endrinmasters) or cut down to three and pick up a Frigate. The Frigate gives some more Shooting and blocking while also restoring some of that Alpha Strike threat with the ABP, Endrinmasters just hit hard and tax an opponents CP for AoD in multiple phases. I'm tempted to go with the Frigate because KO rarely wants to go first so you really have to layer on the Alpha Strike potential and scare people into wanting their buffs/positioning up first. The only Faction I cared about Turn Order against was LRL, with Teclis, because PoTeclis is so nuts. But I just started taking a Navigator with the Orb so that solved that issue, you get your one Spell and nothing else or I stop the only Spell I care about. Realistically I think Cities just plays a better version of our army right now. Irondrakes blow us out of the water because of Rend 2 and they can make them work a lot better than we can. They also have infinitely more combos and cheeky stuff because of their unit access/variety. I'm still trying to make KO work as best they can though. :]

Why would you ever shoot the one that's on a 2+? They have four targets. At the very best one can get TFH, one can get the 5++ Relic, one can get AoD. Mystic Shield is a possibility but lists I've seen aren't running it over the 5++ and I don't think it's a good build for them. With the guns you brought you can easily punch through the weak one. If they stack bonuses then there are two weak ones so you have some choice. If they bunch up then they lose the Mission, just not the one you played because it's insanely stacked in their favor and one of the worst Missions in the GHB, you just plink away and play not to get doubled. Still just a loss due to the Mission, try the matchup again with literally any other Mission and I think you'd have a better time. :] Personally I'm hoping SoB get more and more popular, they dumpster the armies that we struggle with for the moment.

Yup those all exist. I'm not sure what list you took but I make sure I can drop a Gargant a Turn with plenty of guns extra, it's just something your list has to be able to do if you're looking to play competitively. SoB are a very cheap army to get (if you use non-GW sculpts), very easy to play, and massively rewarding. They're one of the big DPS Checks but we have all the tools to beat it. One of the positives is it's an easy matchup to work out on paper because they have so few permutations and have such a direct game plan.

Yeah that's definitely the worst Mission for KO against nearly anything. I wouldn't be too bitter, that's his best possible Mission and your worst. Anything else is a lot tougher.

Interested to see how that goes as they're a major player right now and I think one of KOs best matchups. Gargants can't do much of anything against guns, at best it's TFH one, 5++ one, AoD one. Then you just kill the other one. Next kill the one that lacks TFH and from there it's smoother sailing. -1 to Hit also wrecks them if you can get it.

That seems strictly inferior to double Ironclad double Thunderers. You have one slow 'Clad that will take ages to deliver the Arkanauts at 5" and no Fly High. No Healing. No Combat. Can't pair with ABP because the units are too big so they're either stranded or still no Fly High. What would be the upsides?

Running some numbers on Arkanauts their output is respectable and you can easily put 100 of them on the table. Probably one big unit up front then single units both because of Reinforcements and to get extra Volley Pistols or maybe two big units. Admiral is necessary then probably just as many Aether-Khemists as is necessary for the re-rolls and the -1 to Hit. Sky Ports could go a lot of ways. Custom one gives you Run and Shoot in Turn 1 and an open Command Trait. Barak-Nar lets you get two Immune to Battleshock Auras and the Unbinds. Zilfin lets you run 6" Auto and a pre-game move with a big block but that seems mediocre. Mhornar gives Run and Shoot Turn 1, , a once per game Fight First, and one of the best artifacts in the army. Finally Thryng provides some combat protection from stuff dying uselessly, re-roll 1's (big), and a good once per game. I'd probably go Mhornar, the Command Trait is 100% useless but it is what it is. Weakness is other Shooting armies and Magic. I think you'd just straight up lose to another KO army, an Ironclad just pick up an average of 10 bodies a Turn without any buffs. Against one plus 40 Thunderers, a common package, you lose another 14 a Turn with no buffs so you get tabled in 4 Turns, less with Battleshock maybe. I think where the list would fall apart is just the threat ranges, 13" is so little. Fast armies will just pick a flank, kill that, and you can't bring everything to bear. Some Missions would also be really hard. Seems like one of those lists that looks good on paper but really struggles on the tabletop. That said you could get like 140 Arkanauts easily...

New game against OBR. Played against DoK but didn't do a write-up although I touch on the game briefly.

Looks very well-rounded, I took an almost identical list and it did well, just wasn't how I wanted to play. I dropped the Endrinriggers for a third Arkanaut unit and shuffled some other stuff around slightly but I think it was 95% the same. Irondrakes are super good, you just have to be very vigilant on defending them. Their Unleash Hell is good but not as scary as you think it would be on paper. On my front double Ironclad has run well so far. I lost a very close game to DoK with the -1 to Hit Temple so feel super good about that. I think any other Temple would just get run over. DoK can't handle that much shooting vanilla, their units are so papery and we get around the Blood Stalker Deathstar so well. I expect them to be a pretty strong Faction so that was a buoying experience.

That's the most likely argument we found to say they're Allies but as with an ever-increasing number of things in 3rd, it's murky. Fortunately I only cared for purposes of a non-serious list but a definitive answer would be nice for everyone. :]

We determined that nothing says they are, they just exist in the void. I just got tired of people on here shouting me down when they didn't read the relevant rules. : /

The Mega-Gargant is definitely fun but nowhere is he a named character, otherwise SoB couldn't give any of their models Artifacts either. He can take an Artifact just fine. I agree Gotrek is better, I just need a not-so-competitive list as well. As for Gotrek, he's still too slow to work. In some Missions he's fine but in others you'll spend three Turns just getting him around. He also just dies to massed missile attacks so Cities, LRL, KO, DoT, and a few more armies will just nuke him if they want to. Now he's not hard to hide being so small of a model but that may dictate where he can go. Double Ironclad felt very good. Went against Skaven and picked up Thanquol, two WLCs, an Archwarlock, a Bombadier, and 5 Acolytes on Turn 1 even with fairly poor dice rolling on my part. Thunderers didn't get out either so could have been a tad more damage. It was so nice not having the useless Frigate and I didn't miss the Khemists much. I really wish I had another Hero but three Endrinmasters is a good enough of a Battle Boat to put into Battleline and such.

Yeah I think it's a more for fun unit. For whatever it's worth I haven't found anything that says you can't give it an Artifact. The FAQ makes it clear they're not Allies, they're Mercenaries, and nothing I've read in the SoB, FAQs, or Core Rules say Mercenaries can't have Universal Enhancements. If there is and I missed it I'd like to know though. My local FB Group found nothing.

Yeah Khemists aren't bad by any means, I just had to cut some muscle along with fat. At the end of the day I find the melee and healing more valuable along with trying to get some early CP through Heroes. I've also toyed with taking a Kraken-Eater, punting Objectives is super valuable for KO and I typically find myself doing almost nothing with my Heroic Actions. I don't think it's a better option overall but I may give it some table time when I can. Basically the list would be: - Ironclad -1x10 Thunderers - Aetherwings + Kraken-Eater + Endrinmaster (4 Total) + 10 Arkanauts + Admiral Definitely a very different list. Still enough shooting to pick up 1-2 medium units a turn but the melee is cranked up to 11. Barak-Nar nullifies losing the CP from the Mercenary Gargant, the Ironclad becomes a massive melee threat, it has to die before I get a Turn or it heals a billion. Gargant can do TFH/Recovery although the list becomes more CP Hungry since he wants AoA/AoD depending. Maybe just AoD with its Mercenary ability, depends on the situation. Might be something I just take for fun games because two Ironclads is very frustrating for almost every army to play around, lots of standing on Objectives and rolling Saves.

I've going to try this in a few games this weekend: Barak-Nar 3x Endrinmasters (One General, one w/ Aether-Rune) 2x Ironclad w/ Cannons (Last Word on one) 10x Arkanauts 2x10 Thunderers w/ 2x All Special Weapons 3x Aetherwings Running the math the Aether-Khemist isn't that great for this list and if the Thunderers start taking hits he falls off more. Instead I wanted the healing/melee. You can also fit it into a three drop with Alpha Beast Pack and Battle Regiment. Not sure if it's the best way to run it but it looks okay on paper, just threat overload.