SCGT Rankings and top three lists

[Chris Tomlin]

19 minutes ago, Chillpill said:

Was he the guy with the amazingly painted greenish death army? isabella van carstein, bloodknights etc?

Nah that's @ChippyRick, he was in a good position to pick up Best Death but unfortunately had a combination of bad match up / luck in his last couple of games...and yes, his army does looks great, the rebasing he did recently has really improved it as well.

@Countmoore ended up winning Best Death with Nagash and the Von Carstein family!!

Both Ricky and Tony played a game on Warhammer TV which you can check out on Twitch. They are both top players, flying the Death flag well. I think @Moon was the only other one close (and pretty sure Owyn won Best Death at SCGT last year!)

[DynamicCalories]

I showed my GF the best painted army gallery on the facebook page - does anyone have any information who whatever the various categories were?

My pick are the two Ironjawz, The 4Turkey Tzeentch, and the Nurgle/Orks hybrid: she said, and I quote "The goal of painting models is to make them look not painted, and I don't think I've seen many models achieve that as well as that maggoth lord"

[Soulsmith]

3 hours ago, DynamicCalories said:

I showed my GF the best painted army gallery on the facebook page - does anyone have any information who whatever the various categories were?

My pick are the two Ironjawz, The 4Turkey Tzeentch, and the Nurgle/Orks hybrid: she said, and I quote "The goal of painting models is to make them look not painted, and I don't think I've seen many models achieve that as well as that maggoth lord"

Any chance of a link? Would love to see them.

[WoollyMammoth]

20 hours ago, Galas said:

That argument can be used too for comission armys! Why bother painting your own models when you can pay others to do it for you?! 

Definitely not. I play warhammer because I like to build and paint beautiful models. The same goes for terrain, I like to build and paint great models of terrain as well. Commission painting is a whole separate thing that can not be compared to anything we are talking about. 

A better argument would be - why bother buying models when you can just make them? 

The answer is obvious, the models are beautiful sculptures far beyond what 99.9% of us could make. The same goes for terrain - some of the GW kits and many others such as tabletop-world are far beyond what most people could make.

There are a very small percentage of people out there who can make amazing kits far beyond what is available to buy. Most people making terrain are doing it for one reason - its cheap. And power to you, if you want to fill your games with cheap terrain, that's cool. But the quality and value of available terrain kits are very high right now so why fill your table with foam hills and cardboard buildings when you can fill it with extremely detailed cottages, gates to other realms, Ophidian Archways and Dreadholds. 

The kind of people who prefer homemade buildings and foam hills are likely the same kind of people who prefer the metal models over the new plastic kits. If thats your thing - power to you. But most of us prefer using the beautiful modern terrain and models.

At some point I would like to try to build my own custom terrain but only when I'm ready to invest in the tools to make it really look awesome on the table next to GW and Tabletop-World stuff.

[Kovaks]

7 hours ago, Chris Tomlin said:

the rebasing he did recently has really improved it as well.

 

 

Lol... was it the crushed glass idea, how many greenhouses did he rob and how many times did he cut himself?

[Galas]

3 hours ago, WoollyMammoth said:

Definitely not. I play warhammer because I like to build and paint beautiful models. The same goes for terrain, I like to build and paint great models of terrain as well. Commission painting is a whole separate thing that can not be compared to anything we are talking about. 

A better argument would be - why bother buying models when you can just make them? 

The answer is obvious, the models are beautiful sculptures far beyond what 99.9% of us could make. The same goes for terrain - some of the GW kits and many others such as tabletop-world are far beyond what most people could make.

There are a very small percentage of people out there who can make amazing kits far beyond what is available to buy. Most people making terrain are doing it for one reason - its cheap. And power to you, if you want to fill your games with cheap terrain, that's cool. But the quality and value of available terrain kits are very high right now so why fill your table with foam hills and cardboard buildings when you can fill it with extremely detailed cottages, gates to other realms, Ophidian Archways and Dreadholds. 

The kind of people who prefer homemade buildings and foam hills are likely the same kind of people who prefer the metal models over the new plastic kits. If thats your thing - power to you. But most of us prefer using the beautiful modern terrain and models.

At some point I would like to try to build my own custom terrain but only when I'm ready to invest in the tools to make it really look awesome on the table next to GW and Tabletop-World stuff.

I totally agree with all what you said. Painting your own terrain or making yourself, they are both good options, and I agree that obviosly in general the terrain you can buy is much better that the terrain you can do for yourself, but that doesn't mean that you can't too try to make your own terrain. Yeah, It will not look so pretty but is something you had made.

I was just pointing this out because the people that said before about "only using GW terrain" etc... I understand that policy in a GW shop or Warhammer World etc... but in tournaments and all of that I see it a litte going full GW-Fanatic.

[WoollyMammoth]

@Galas
Do you have any recommendations for how to make your own terrain?

I just started to get into terrain. I have an archway and some realmgates and two forests. I'm enjoying painting the archway, I never noticed all its cool details before.

[Jamopower]

1 hour ago, WoollyMammoth said:

@Galas
Do you have any recommendations for how to make your own terrain?

I just started to get into terrain. I have an archway and some realmgates and two forests. I'm enjoying painting the archway, I never noticed all its cool details before.

This guy has pretty awesome tutorials:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCjRkUtHQ774mTg1vrQ6uA5A

The more natural terrain (hills, lakes, trees, etc.) and normal buildings are pretty easy to do with good results, many times even better than the ready made plastic kits, but of course stuff like dragonfire dias can be bit trickier to do from everyday materials.  

 

[Dan Heelan]

20 hours ago, Louzi said:

Where can I find the army lists for the scgt 2017 (last year it was published)

They were hand in on the day, so we only had paper copies I'm afraid. I have given them to @Ben to maybe upload on his /lists area.

The top 6 ish lists I posted on my twitter timeline if you are a tweeter!

D

[Chris Tomlin]

17 hours ago, DynamicCalories said:

I showed my GF the best painted army gallery on the facebook page - does anyone have any information who whatever the various categories were?

My pick are the two Ironjawz, The 4Turkey Tzeentch, and the Nurgle/Orks hybrid: she said, and I quote "The goal of painting models is to make them look not painted, and I don't think I've seen many models achieve that as well as that maggoth lord"

Coolest Army
Matthew Lyons - Cthulhu themed Nurgle @Cowboy Boots Matt

Best Army
1st - Ian Gilmore - yellow Ironjawz @Ian Gilmore
2nd - Mark Wildman - yellow/black Tzeentch @Mark wildman
3rd - Ming Lee - Slaanesh @Thornshield

All fantastic armies tbh. Really high standard. Mine was the other Ironjawz army (black armour)

10 hours ago, Kovaks said:

Lol... was it the crushed glass idea, how many greenhouses did he rob and how many times did he cut himself?

Haha!! I'm not actually sure what @ChippyRick ended up using in the end. There is something glasslike on the base. Looks cool.

13 hours ago, Soulsmith said:

Any chance of a link? Would love to see them.

It's on the Heelanhammer Facebook page I think. Perhaps @Dan Heelan can link?

[kaintxu]

On 24/04/2017 at 4:22 PM, Rhellion said:

This is exactly what I mean. It's easy for someone here to say "that looks terrible, he had time to paint it better".

 

There are different skill levels for different aspects of the hobby. Your gaming skills helped you win the event. Their painting skills didn't help them win the event, now did it?

 

Of course it didn't, that's why there are painting competitions.

Here I'm with HArrison. I have been playing 40k and fantasy for 20 years now and never managed to finish painting an army to a decent level. It takes me too much time to paint as I am very slow at it so don't have the time for it. This is why I don't go to painting competitions but I do go to gaming ones where what I want to be valued is my gaming skills.

Why do tournaments have to take painting into account for final result, when golden daemon or other painting competitions don't take gaming skill into account?

[Soup Dragon]

Intellectually and logically I agree with @kaintxu - Gaming tournaments are about gameplay points and painting competitions are about artistic ability. HOWEVER, the vast majority of us enjoy our games more, and get much more satisfaction when we have 2 nicely painted armies on the table. The tricky bit is where to set the acceptable standard of painting for gameplay so that it is low enough so it doesn't exclude the great players who are not into painting, but high enough that we all enjoy our games. Sadly, you will never please all the people all the time. 

[WoollyMammoth]

10 minutes ago, kaintxu said:

Of course it didn't, that's why there are painting competitions.

Here I'm with HArrison. I have been playing 40k and fantasy for 20 years now and never managed to finish painting an army to a decent level. It takes me too much time to paint as I am very slow at it so don't have the time for it. This is why I don't go to painting competitions but I do go to gaming ones where what I want to be valued is my gaming skills.

Why do tournaments have to take painting into account for final result, when golden daemon or other painting competitions don't take gaming skill into account?

Warhammer is, first and foremost, and above all else, a modeling hobby. Modeling consists of assembling and painting miniatures. For the most part, AoS is a silly imbalanced game where most of the enjoyment comes from playing with cool people and enjoying the look of the models on the table.

There is nothing wrong with playing the game competitively but statements like this disrespect the hobby. If you show up and smash my face with a beautiful army - that's great. I appreciate all your hard work in making your army look awesome. If you show up with a half painted army because "painting is hard and I don't have the time" then you do not belong at an event which is specifically for miniature painting enthusiasts. 

You don't have to be a good painter, but you have to put the time and effort in to respect others time and effort. Everyone has various skill levels and I appreciate everyone's effort. But if you blatantly did not put in the effort, and don't care about painting, you're just being a ****** in the punchbowl. 

[Gaz Taylor]

++ Mod Hat On ++

Very simple message guys - Play nice.

I'm really not impressed with some people attitudes in this thread and I will start waving my ban hammer around soon. You can all have a different opinion about painting, modeling and how it applies to YOUR hobby, but don't be an idiot about it when it comes to discussing other peoples models.

[kaintxu]

56 minutes ago, WoollyMammoth said:

Warhammer is, first and foremost, and above all else, a modeling hobby. Modeling consists of assembling and painting miniatures. For the most part, AoS is a silly imbalanced game where most of the enjoyment comes from playing with cool people and enjoying the look of the models on the table.

There is nothing wrong with playing the game competitively but statements like this disrespect the hobby. If you show up and smash my face with a beautiful army - that's great. I appreciate all your hard work in making your army look awesome. If you show up with a half painted army because "painting is hard and I don't have the time" then you do not belong at an event which is specifically for miniature painting enthusiasts. 

You don't have to be a good painter, but you have to put the time and effort in to respect others time and effort. Everyone has various skill levels and I appreciate everyone's effort. But if you blatantly did not put in the effort, and don't care about painting, you're just being a ****** in the punchbowl. 

Who says it's mainly a modelling hobby? It's a hobby which is mainly what you make of it.

some people may prefer the modelling bit and others the gaming. I understand you wanting models painted, it helps in game to identify u it's and makes it easier to the eye. But if painting takes time and I just want to paint to a low standard and fast, hat should be plenty to play, no one can judge how much effort I put into painting as long as I fulfill the basics of the tournament.

Again there are painting competitions for the hobby side, and while I agree a nicely painted army looks awesome, some people don't have the time or patience for it and have to go with the basic 3 colours without much detail.

again, if it is not a painting competition, who are you to tell me I don't belong at a gaming event with a crappy painted army? I belong there as much as the next guy.

i thing all sides of the hobby and how each of us enjoys the hobby should be respected st the same level

[polarbear]

1 hour ago, WoollyMammoth said:

Warhammer is, first and foremost, and above all else, a modeling hobby. 
 

Although I engage in the hobby this way, I don't agree. The hobby is whatever it is to the individual. People engage with it in all sorts of ways, which is the mark of a great hobby, in my opinion. There are many avenues to find joy and wrap your mind around in Warhammer. It appeals to many different types of people. This is a good thing. I can't tell anyone else what the hobby is to them. That's their choice.

Not speaking on tournament requirements or group preferences or what have you. 

[BunkhouseBuster]

6 minutes ago, kaintxu said:

Who says it's mainly a modelling hobby? It's a hobby which is mainly what you make of it.

...

i thing all sides of the hobby and how each of us enjoys the hobby should be respected st the same level

As much as I prefer the narrative, modelling, and painting components over the competitive, I agree with you on this.  You spend the money on the models, you choose how to use them.

The issue is that some tournament organizers have minimum painting requirements for their events.  They are doing this to try and make things look "better" for everyone involved, including spectators.  Considering the SCGT was a HUGE event, showcased by GW, and livestreamed for many more folks to watch, I can see their logic behind it.

The hobby has many aspects to enjoy.  Painting & modelling, socializing with other players, forging a narrative, or competing against others; whichever flavor you prefer, you should go an enjoy it!

[Sleboda]

I believe painting is part of not only the balance of the game, but also a component of fair play. 

Unpainted or poorly painted models are more difficult to properly identify on a table. Champions blend in,  squads intermingle more easily,  etc. 

A person with such an army gets an in-game advantage over a person with a well-painted force.

[VBS]

Here is a little thought about going beyond the "my idea of the hobby is":

Of course everyone has a preference, but when you play a game (in a tournament or whatever, so basically hobby-related beyond painting alone at home) you are interacting with other people. People that might have a different concept of the hobby than you do. 

I know from experience that a lot of people love playing with painted armies on good looking tables, it highly increases their interest and enjoyability for the game (an obvious example: myself). Much more than simply beating other people with toy soldiers. For them, it's the full hobby experience that counts.

If someone does not like/want/have time painting and plays against some guy like described above, he is de facto  removing a portion of enjoyability to this other person. If he cares about having fun with cool miniatures, he will not find that experience against a competitive player with a bunch grey miniatures.

So for me, there is a component of respect. Trying to do at least the bare minimum so the other person also has a GOOD TIME. Just like a competitive player that doesn't care about painting will have a GOOD TIME stomping the other guy with his ultra-min-maxed army. If the other guy plays his part by showing up for a game, why wouldn't you concede him the small pleasure of fielding a minimally painted army??? Are you so selfish that you only want to stomp his toys and the rest doesn't matter?? Does enjoying the full hobby experience ring a bell??

If both players have the "I'm über-competitive and don't care about paint" mentality, all the above can be ignored. No worries, I thought about everyone 

 

PS: Clarification, when I say "painted army", I mean the bare minimum. Not even 10% 'Eavy Metal, but at least a basic layer with 3-4 colours. The kind of things that takes 3 minutes per-miniature and no skills. If someone finds time for this hobby, he can do that without lame excuses. Otherwise, you are better off buying bases and writing the unit name on top, or resort to the classic "bits of paper". 

 

My 2cent.

[WoollyMammoth]

35 minutes ago, kaintxu said:

Who says it's mainly a modelling hobby? It's a hobby which is mainly what you make of it.

You cant play the game without modeling. Its a game of models.

To be clear, I'm not insulting anyone's painting or models. I'm just saying, you have to respect that it is a game about models and do your best to make those models look good on the table. Generally I'm just happy to see the models at least fully assembled. Most competitions have mandatory rules that your models must look decent to put them on the table, so it is a moot point. 

If you want to show up with hastily painted models just so you can play, so be it. But there is a bit of a line in the sand as two how hastily you can paint. You cant just take three sprays and spray thee shades on to every model so that it can pass. Each part of the model should be painted and clear. Metal should be metal, skin should be skin colored. If you blatantly copped out and didn't put a reasonable time and effort in, its disrespectful to those that did. If you really don't have the time to paint to a half decent standard then you should get help or pay for commission, at least for one centerpiece model so there is at least one good thing to look at on the table.

I respect that people just like to play the game and as such I agree that painting should not add soft scores for best general. All I ask is that you respect the other side and not say things like painting doesn't matter and I can just show up with whatever I feel like and it should be fine. 

[roberto]

4 hours ago, WoollyMammoth said:

 Metal should be metal, skin should be skin colored.

I dunno, man.  Nothing wrong with flesh-colored armor, or metallic skin.  Kinda cool, actually.   Not sure how this shows disrespect for the opponent.

[Veterannoob]

In the States at least (perhaps elsewhere, I can't say for sure) several larger events require your best painting, display, etc. possible and also a good sporting attitude since you are paying for entry, travel, hotel, etc. for the experience of the 5-6 or so games. Yes, social contract, but also as a destination. We've had a couple incidents (fortunately, not me) where someone put all the money and time in and (well over $1000 total trip) was forced (not a gun to the head but if they wanted to play...) to play a game vs. grey plastic and I can see where said unfortunates would be miffed.

But as for clubs, shops, etc. that works itself out between the players.

[WoollyMammoth]

Its a good point about, people who like to paint show up for the gamers by bringing models, but gamers don't always show up for the painters by bringing painted models.

 

[Darth Alec]

I think we can all agree that there's several potential sort of events. You can have pure gaming events, in which only the gaming results matter and the state of the models are functionally irrelevant to the event results. You could also have "overall" events, where you don't just win for best score, but also for other catagories like painting and sportsmanship. Then you have events where painting, sportsmanship or "other" objectives count for significantly larger portions of the overall score (narrative events, anyone?).

 

It's entirely fine to prefer one to the other. But just be clear what sort event you're talking about. I wouldn't complain about the painting at a Masters event, in the same way I wouldn't complain about non-winning related scores at a narrative event.

 

In the end, everyone should enjoy this hobby the way they like.

[kaintxu]

10 hours ago, WoollyMammoth said:

Its a good point about, people who like to paint show up for the gamers by bringing models, but gamers don't always show up for the painters by bringing painted models.

 

Showing up with models has the same cost for everyone. Showing up with painted models has a cost that many might not like as they might not enjoy painting, or might not have the time to paint it.

how long does it take to paint an army? If I can only dedicate 3-4 hours a week to the hobby, and I have to chose between painting and playing, why should I chose painting which means I will probably not be able to play for a year or so and invest my time doing something I do not enjoy? At that point I might as well stop gaming to make you happy?

I agree painted armies look way better and even i prefer to play against one, but i do not have the time nor I enjoy painting (i have all my armies half painted because I grew tired of doing it) so if the tournament requires full painting I usually can't go or I lose points and will never win, but I rather that than not playing.

im now commissioning to get some of my malifaux crews painted but I do not have the money to get a whole AoS army painted.