AoS 3 - Nighthaunt Discussion

[zombiepiratexxx]

49 minutes ago, Liquidsteel said:

"the spectral bolts of the Craventhrone Guard always hit their mark"...

Hits on 4s 🤣

Glad I wasn't the only one to  at the disconnect between the "fluff" and the warscroll there. I know GW like to hype things up but these guys definitely aren't marksmen of any kind. 

[Gitzdee]

15 minutes ago, zombiepiratexxx said:

Glad I wasn't the only one to  at the disconnect between the "fluff" and the warscroll there. I know GW like to hype things up but these guys definitely aren't marksmen of any kind. 

They remind me of the vultures from robin hood XD.

Edited March 23, 2022 by Iksdee

[EnixLHQ]

Using Cities' crossbowmen as a standard to measure by these guys have:

• Half the range
• Twice the attacks
• -1 to wound roll
• +1 to rend
• No melee option
• 1 revealed ability vs the crossbowmen's 3 passives and 1 active abilities.

The crossbowmen abilities are a +1 to hit for one model in the unit, +1 to bravery if a banner carrier exists, +1 to run and charge if musician exits, and the active ability to +1 to attacks if unit has 10 or more models, no enemies within 3", and the unit hasn't moved that turn.

Vs this unit's ability to ignore all cover and line-of-sight within that 12" range, plus anything we don't know just yet.

Hmm... I'd say unless the Soulhunters also get a stand-and-shoot type ability or some other way to buff that attack profile we won't see these in play often. I doubt anything will increase the range, as the ignore cover ability is pretty damn powerful and will remove any opponent's ability to use terrain or larger models as cover from ranged attacks making screens useless. We'll have ranged superiority in that regard, able to target anything within range. But, without a way to lower those 4+ or unless they miraculously have a 3+ save, these guys won't have a lot of impact.

If I were to take a wild guess, I bet one of their yet-to-be revealed abilities will also negate the Look Out, Sir! negative modifier.

[Lord Krungharr]

1 hour ago, EnixLHQ said:

Using Cities' crossbowmen as a standard to measure by these guys have:

• Half the range
• Twice the attacks
• -1 to wound roll
• +1 to rend
• No melee option
• 1 revealed ability vs the crossbowmen's 3 passives and 1 active abilities.

The crossbowmen abilities are a +1 to hit for one model in the unit, +1 to bravery if a banner carrier exists, +1 to run and charge if musician exits, and the active ability to +1 to attacks if unit has 10 or more models, no enemies within 3", and the unit hasn't moved that turn.

Vs this unit's ability to ignore all cover and line-of-sight within that 12" range, plus anything we don't know just yet.

Hmm... I'd say unless the Soulhunters also get a stand-and-shoot type ability or some other way to buff that attack profile we won't see these in play often. I doubt anything will increase the range, as the ignore cover ability is pretty damn powerful and will remove any opponent's ability to use terrain or larger models as cover from ranged attacks making screens useless. We'll have ranged superiority in that regard, able to target anything within range. But, without a way to lower those 4+ or unless they miraculously have a 3+ save, these guys won't have a lot of impact.

If I were to take a wild guess, I bet one of their yet-to-be revealed abilities will also negate the Look Out, Sir! negative modifier.

Yeah, but they're dead crossbowmen....they lost all their muscle-memory when they lost their muscles!

[Sutek]

If spectral touch becomes an allegiance ability then they might do mortals on a 6 so a unit of 15 would average 5 mortals.  Good for deepstriking and killing a small hero or as a screen with unleash hell.

[JackStreicher]

18 minutes ago, Sutek said:

If spectral touch becomes an allegiance ability then they might do mortals on a 6 so a unit of 15 would average 5 mortals.  Good for deepstriking and killing a small hero or as a screen with unleash hell.

With that „range“ if you can call that you will lose the x-bow ghosts in the opponent’s turn.

i guess they‘ll get +4-6“ range if they didn’t move.

[Boggler]

If nothing else,  it helps me decide not to buy the Arena of Shades box.

I was pumped too. Wow 0/2 on the reveals. It really sucks. No doubt about that.

Sure. You can play the whole Nighthaunt "hopefully optimistic" tune and wait for the good stuff to arrive...

The majority of games I've played don't even have walls. Do the writers even play this game? Do the designers?

Army wide Frightful Touch might be a thing but even then we're not in a great place.  Maybe it can also ignore Armour if close to an objective?

Ethereal ignores negative mods only? Maybe we go somewhere.

I don't know what would make this army great AND unique in 3.1. I guess neither does GW.

[That Guy]

Well well well. Look at the negativity. Boys let me reach a hand out to you to pull you out of the water. Well maybe i accidently let go. Someone needs to play devils advocate.
 

1. The unit counters several armies battle traits and core mechanics
2. The unit can likely deepstrike and immediately shoot
3. The unit can likely teleport to a general
4. The unit will likely have more abilities, they only shared 1 so far
5. The unit will have a melee profile, just like any other unit
6. The ability allows you to treat it like a short range artillery unit
7. There will likely be a sub-faction that supports them 

 

1: Idoneth Low Tide full counter, Kruleboyz covered in mud full counter, Sylvaneth forests? Full counter. I'm sure there's more.
2: Currently you can deepstrike ghosts, maybe these will be able to as well, being able to drop down a flank and immidiately hail down some shots. 10 of these with all out attack from a critical flank will hit hard. This faction is known to have a lot of stat buffing heroes, they'll likely get some support in that.
3: We could have 1 of the most mobile ranged units in the game, especially with a dreadblade, showing up behind flanks, and even shooting hiding units. Technically nothing can hide from this unit.
4: There's probably more to them than this ability, we also don't know what their command does for them.
5: Enough said. It will be bad though.
6. It can shoot on anything in range, through anything. There is nothing that can block their sight and they remove cover on top of that. You are not safe.
7. This might be the biggest impact on them. Perhaps they can be battleline for a unit of 15,  if they get buffs, they could become terrifying. It will likely be a sub-faction under Kurdoss Valentian. 

[Darkrich]

I'm not sold on the counters several armies thing. As if 12 inch range 4+ 1 damage attacks scares anyone. Ungor raiders shoot that from 18 inches (without the rend of course). These guys deepstrike and shoot Lotann while you laugh cause he doesn't get cover. Lotann lives of course cause this damage output is bad. Then anything in his army retaliates and murders the ghosts. Also, any person who sees you invest a large reinforced squad is just going to screen them away.

There are going to have to be some sweet other rules to go along with. If we consider our existing units, most only have one real rule. Grimghasts can reroll hits, done. Chainrasp can reroll 1's to wound, done. Harridans exploding 6's, done. Ghost shooty bois, we ignore cover.

[The_Dudemeister]

In case you were wondering what the loop at the front of the crossbow does... that's a stirrup, used to slide your foot in.

 

Where are my legs, GW? I've been promised legs... WHERE ARE MY LEGS?

[EnixLHQ]

Hooooooooold off on the negativity. This reveal is not only in a vacuum, it's not even complete. A full analysis is impossible without the full warscrolls to either model, and we're going to have to wait on that.

AND that's under the current ruleset. As a army with no ranged, and so barely any abilities that buff ranged units. Our next book could, and likely will in a lot of ways, upend everything we know about the faction.

For example, our hero buffs from the Knight of Shrouds on foot and Spirit Torment (+1 hit for a CP, Reroll 1's to hit, respectively) are not melee-dependent. The Krulghast Cruciator's ward buff doesn't care about weapons at all, and his range is the same as the Soulhunters.

The Knight of Shroud on Ethereal Steed and Guardian of Souls both affect melee only, but could be updated or traded for abilities that can later.

And, for all we know, the Scriptor Mortis could give out Frightful Touch in an aura or on a target unit, since he's all about doing piercing damage.

Guys, we just don't know anything yet.

[Boggler]

16 minutes ago, EnixLHQ said:

Guys, we just don't know anything yet.

Actually. We are commenting on what we do know.

Its also great to be hypothetical. Sure, we don't know the other stuff yet... We have a lot on the Wishlist!

[Gitzdee]

I would love more bravery related mechanics. I think it fits into the army really well.

[Rors]

Definitely not super impressed with their weapon profile but as said, with the right synergies they could be a threat.

I'll wait and see before saying it's a dud but my concern with them being a shooting unit that has to teleport to within 12 inches with a support hero to buff them is that your stacking points into a combo that is very easily counter charged.

Assassination a 100something point support hero by sacrificing a (probably) 100something unit and 100 something points hero isn't effective.

I suppose they could work as units that sit behind chainrasp hoards and only teleport out to assassinate a hero when it's later in the game but then that support hero has stuck around most of the game (likely earning their points already) and just on that profile alone, unless they're very very cheap, they don't really add anything by hiding behind screens.

We'll need to wait and see but I'm definitely setting my expectations very low for this unit. On a positive note, one (possibly) dud unit doesn't mean anything for the strength of the book when released.

[Clan's Cynic]

[Kadeton]

12 hours ago, zombiepiratexxx said:

Glad I wasn't the only one to  at the disconnect between the "fluff" and the warscroll there. I know GW like to hype things up but these guys definitely aren't marksmen of any kind. 

Hardly without precedent, though. "The Hunter's Glaives wielded by these long-dead warriors always point compass-like towards their next victim, striking deep and true when hunter and prey come together." = 4+ to hit.

I'm assuming the Craventhrone Guard are primarily a bodyguard unit. After several games using Hexwraiths in the Emerald Host, I've found it's really annoying to have bodyguards that want to rush off into combat and leave the hero they're supposed to protect behind. Having a ranged unit in that role means they can stay back to help protect the squishy buffing heroes, but still contribute to the fight - even though their crossbows might not be the best shooting attack in the game, it really suits a unit that's hanging out with the plethora of aura-based heroes we have who want to stay close to the fight.

8 hours ago, Darkrich said:

If we consider our existing units, most only have one real rule. Grimghasts can reroll hits, done. Chainrasp can reroll 1's to wound, done. Harridans exploding 6's, done. Ghost shooty bois, we ignore cover.

I really hope they streamline some of this away, actually - preferably in favour of something like army-wide Frightful Touch. I've played a bunch of games with them now and I still struggle to remember which units have which special rules. It doesn't seem to follow any particular pattern, just a random scatter-shot. Both Grimghasts and Hexwraiths use scythes, for instance: why does one unit have Reaped Like Corn and the other Frightful Touch?

3 hours ago, Iksdee said:

I would love more bravery related mechanics. I think it fits into the army really well.

I would really like to see this too. The main problem is that some armies have exceptionally high bravery across the board (e.g. Death armies, demons), so anything that works reliably against them is probably devastating to normal armies, and anything which doesn't will be useless in those matchups and consequently very hard to balance. But I'm hoping they'll have some creative ideas in this space.

Awlrach looks amazing, I look forward to painting him up.

[EnixLHQ]

 

[Rors]

It's really hope this new boat boy has some kind of damage aura/pulse that turns slain models into spirit host.

We have so many support heros already, we need a hero that fits a different role.

[lare2]

3 hours ago, Clan's Cynic said:

Oh boy, our rules previews might be (currently) lacklustre but our new models look amazing. 

[Gitzdee]

Finally we have the boat thing revealed, was hoping for a behemoth but this also looks nice. Always nice to be able to transport more things. I am a bit sad that it had to be another hero. Looking forward to paint this one, will look awesome on the shelf.

[That Guy]

6 hours ago, Clan's Cynic said:

Well, one of my wishlist points(a Charon/ferryman hero) is now reality. Unfortunately this is the boat rumor. No behemoth/monster for us so far. 🥲

[Boggler]

Awlrach looks kinda cool. There is too much going on there for me. I'm not very interested in adding one to my army unless he's flat out broken.

I already struggle to find points for:

Guardian of Souls

Spirit Torment

Crulghast Cruciator

Maybe he can combine the three together?

[Neck-Romantic]

For the crossbowmen; it really wouldnt take much to make them quite spooky (lul) as an assasination squad coming from underworld deployment or spectral summons.

Abilities that trigger with wounds dealt or enemies slain or threshholds reached are all part of our (unpredictable) toolkit, so lets not rule them out yet.

 

As for the boatman and the librarian.. yeah more heroes wasnt quite what Ide hoped for, as Necrons suffered the same for years. Rather than an overhaul youde get slight tweaks and a new bland hero.

 

High hopes for new book

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

1 hour ago, Boggler said:

Awlrach looks kinda cool. There is too much going on there for me. I'm not very interested in adding one to my army unless he's flat out broken.

I already struggle to find points for:

Guardian of Souls

Spirit Torment

Crulghast Cruciator

Maybe he can combine the three together?

I find it hard to predict what Awlrach will do on the table, actually. The most natural rules for a boat would be enabling ambush deployment like Gutrot Spume does in Nurgle or acting as a transport like the Kharadron boats. But none of these are particularly valuable for Nighthaunt.

I think if this guy was just a mobile, hard-hitting bruiser, that would actually be pretty welcome. So watch him be some kind of weird buff wagon with his lantern instead.

[Gitzdee]

6 minutes ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

I find it hard to predict what Awlrach will do on the table, actually. The most natural rules for a boat would be enabling ambush deployment like Gutrot Spume does in Nurgle or acting as a transport like the Kharadron boats. But none of these are particularly valuable for Nighthaunt.

I think if this guy was just a mobile, hard-hitting bruiser, that would actually be pretty welcome. So watch him be some kind of weird buff wagon with his lantern instead.

Would be awesome if he is a bit like Mannfred but with buffs and going in and out of combat at will.

Edited March 24, 2022 by Iksdee