Kramer Posted November 17, 2020 Share Posted November 17, 2020 (edited) Hot dang! That’s how you expand the narrative. Finally had the time to read e book. So my days of avoiding podcasts, Facebook and this forum (bar the painting sub forum) are over. im gonna put my money on the mysterious leather winged saviour to be a drakothian ulgu elf from Malarion. messing up mama’s plans like usual. (Might remain a hidden antagonist through the whole series and only to be revealed in the last book with a army release into aos 3) side question. What was the name again of the elf she loved. The old Phoenix king, dad to spoiled little Malekith? because that’s the soul she hesitated on right? First I thought of Tyrion but that makes no sense. Edited November 17, 2020 by Kramer 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuminethMage Posted November 17, 2020 Share Posted November 17, 2020 (edited) 46 minutes ago, Kramer said: Hot dang! That’s how you expand the narrative. Finally had the time to read e book. So my days of avoiding podcasts, Facebook and this forum (bar the painting sub forum) are over. im gonna put my money on the mysterious leather winged saviour to be a drakothian ulgu elf from Malarion. messing up mama’s plans like usual. (Might remain a hidden antagonist through the whole series and only to be revealed in the last book with a army release into aos 3) side question. What was the name again of the elf she loved. The old Phoenix king, dad to spoiled little Malekith? because that’s the soul she hesitated on right? First I thought of Tyrion but that makes no sense. It's the bestest of best elves ever : ) : Aenarion And yeah, that's the only one which would make sense I think. Edited November 17, 2020 by LuminethMage 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fulcanelli Posted November 17, 2020 Share Posted November 17, 2020 I would say the misterious saviour is Malerion (or a subordinate of him). It would fit better in the fluff. But then I remember that Van Brecht family is connected with Soulblight, and I ask myself why telling such a specific and unusual thing? It must have consequences, I expect a winged vampire jumping out at any moment. It could be one or the other. I think GW is playing on ambiguity on purpose. And that's the way you build an engaging narrative! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord of the Isle Posted November 17, 2020 Share Posted November 17, 2020 There are pros and cons to both ideas, yup. Vampire - fits with specifics of van Brecht’s character and history. Begins to involve Death. Malerion - further explains and expands ongoing aelven epic. More relevant to general godhood / realms scheme of saga. Not entirely sure which I want to be true more (there’s also the very left of field candidacy of Be’lakor but he would have to be up to something very elaborate) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HorticulusTGA Posted November 17, 2020 Share Posted November 17, 2020 10 minutes ago, Lord of the Isle said: There are pros and cons to both ideas, yup. Vampire - fits with specifics of van Brecht’s character and history. Begins to involve Death. Malerion - further explains and expands ongoing aelven epic. More relevant to general godhood / realms scheme of saga. Not entirely sure which I want to be true more (there’s also the very left of field candidacy of Be’lakor but he would have to be up to something very elaborate) Well I think Malerion, God of Shadow, wouldn't just sneak in a prison like this. Even if he is shadowy, he is also very powerful. So if he wished Van Brecht free, he would have just stormed the city, or send in his agents. For Vampires, don't forget the fluff explain how Van Brecht has sworn to see his whole lineage destroyed because of the Soulblight Curse. Maybe a lost parent wished to help him but they are certainly not in good terms. Be'lakor is the best candidate IMO : he has bat wings (that had maybe been teased in a Rumor Engine), is usually seen spying and sneaking around alone with his shadow magic abilities (he let Manfred free from his prison in the End Times), and could very well want to undermine Morathi (for domination of Ulgu) and the forces of Order. He may also had blazing eyes (like in a recent artwork ; and like the Chaos Furies). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clan's Cynic Posted November 17, 2020 Author Share Posted November 17, 2020 Games Workshop Studio writers are almost never subtle. If it wasn't vampire who freed him, we'd not have had that very explicit reference to Van Brecht's family history. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kramer Posted November 17, 2020 Share Posted November 17, 2020 1 hour ago, Clan's Cynic said: Games Workshop Studio writers are almost never subtle. If it wasn't vampire who freed him, we'd not have had that very explicit reference to Van Brecht's family history. That’s a good point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fulcanelli Posted November 17, 2020 Share Posted November 17, 2020 4 hours ago, Clan's Cynic said: Games Workshop Studio writers are almost never subtle. If it wasn't vampire who freed him, we'd not have had that very explicit reference to Van Brecht's family history. Of course this bond between him and soulblight is not a random background, sure we'll see some vampire jump out, I agree. But I think it's also possibile that this specific case – the winged saviour – could be linked to someone else, like Malerion or Be'lakor... and that the vampire-reference is put in the same book on purpose, to disorient. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chumphammer Posted November 17, 2020 Share Posted November 17, 2020 Morathi-Khaine gives no ****** what lesser races think At least she isnt sitting around on her thumb all day like Sigmar Love the changes. Bring it on 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enoby Posted November 17, 2020 Share Posted November 17, 2020 The more I read about this book's lore, the more I realise how much better AoS's current lore is compared to 40k's. By that I mean that big changes are allowed to happen, and the 'main characters' (e.g. Space Marines/Stormcast) can actually lose in a meaningful way that doesn't make them look good. I was worried we'd see a repeat of Psychic Awakening. 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kramer Posted November 17, 2020 Share Posted November 17, 2020 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Chumphammer said: Morathi-Khaine gives no ****** what lesser races think At least she isnt sitting around on her thumb all day like Sigmar Love the changes. Bring it on Haha that picture does make me (re)realise how much of a sulky teen race the elves of the old world are and how their leaders took those traits with them. The little POV story from Morathi in the Gullet of Slaanesh. Sees souls she runs into, and makes the point she’s so over them. Only to run into her first love and falling at the finish line. But then still coming with a ‘I’m a strong independent women’ entrance from the cauldron into the midst of a battle. Only to gossip the other elf king into joining the cool girls. all because People don’t show her the respect she feels she deserves. Edited November 17, 2020 by Kramer 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NinthMusketeer Posted November 17, 2020 Share Posted November 17, 2020 1 hour ago, Enoby said: The more I read about this book's lore, the more I realise how much better AoS's current lore is compared to 40k's. By that I mean that big changes are allowed to happen, and the 'main characters' (e.g. Space Marines/Stormcast) can actually lose in a meaningful way that doesn't make them look good. I was worried we'd see a repeat of Psychic Awakening. While I liked the character, I was so happy to see Thostos Bladestorm get perma-killed at the end of the Realmgate Wars. Almost certainly because of flaws from his previous reforging to boot. This guy was a main character for the whole RGW story, then he decided doing a 1v1 vs Archaon was a good idea. Not only that his sacrifice meant nothing on a strategic level--the Stormcast lost the battle, and quite badly. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverstu Posted November 17, 2020 Share Posted November 17, 2020 (edited) 14 hours ago, LuminethMage said: It's the bestest of best elves ever : ) : Aenarion And yeah, that's the only one which would make sense I think. It will be interesting to see in what form/how he returns to the setting - GW said in their "What Next" article "what powerful aelven souls escaped..?' which suggests Aenarion and a few mates are loose. He might go to Telcis [he is a distant relation?]- but I did have another idea- what if he returned as Kurnoth reborn- taking the essence of that God and bringing it fully back to form? He would then be consort to Allarielle [who was the Everqueen, consort to the Phoenix king so it would have a nice symmetry and Kurnoth would suit his hot headedness well. Just a thought ...I mean where else would he fit in- maybe not the Lumineth but possibly the Cities elves? Edited November 17, 2020 by silverstu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord of the Isle Posted November 17, 2020 Share Posted November 17, 2020 He’s more Khaine than Kurnoth but kool finking wonder if Caledor Dragontamer got out! But probably article just referred to big A and Cythai? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jator Posted November 17, 2020 Share Posted November 17, 2020 (edited) What do you think Aenarion could bring to the setting? I mean, we are not short of elven deities (Aenarion was practically a demigod in his times) and besides being more of an as**le than the twins I'm not sure how his contribution to the Realms could be different than anything his descendants could do. Don't get me wrong, I like the guy, he's cool and all that, and has a connection with Morathi but I'm just unsure about how he could be well used. Edited November 17, 2020 by Jator 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuminethMage Posted November 17, 2020 Share Posted November 17, 2020 50 minutes ago, silverstu said: It will be interesting to see in what form/how he returns to the setting - GW said in their "What Next" article "what powerful aelven souls escaped..?' which suggests Aenarion and a few mates are loose. He might go to Telcis [he is a distant relation?]- but I did have another idea- what if he returned as Kurnoth reborn- taking the essence of that God and bringing it fully back to form? He would then be consort to Allarielle [who was the Everqueen, consort to the Phoenix king so it would have a nice symmetry and Kurnoth would suit his hot headedness well. Just a thought ...I mean where else would he fit in- maybe not the Lumineth but possibly the Cities elves? If GW wants to venture into new areaswith AoS, like they are doing now with 40K - They should sent him to Ulgu, that’s a family sitcom waiting to happen. But in earnest, that’s a good question, and they could do almost anything with him. Lumineth would make sense in a way, the king souls for the most part took forms and fought with magic similar to Lumineth and Aenarion is the ancestor of T&T, but I can’t see a role for him in the Lumineth, he is too similar to Tyrion. In Warhammer Fantasy the HE often called Tyrion the reborn Aenarion because of his martial prowess and similarity in looks. And we already have Eltharion, which is also a similar character in many ways. They could align him with the Phoenix Temple, after all he still seems to have a spark of Asuryan in him. But then Aenarion decidedly took the form of another, now dead god, to cleave Morathi in half. So, that could also happen, also pretty unlikely though. Although it would be pretty hilarious in a way. Oops. Or he is corrupted after all, and comes back in a totally different form. Or maybe the most likely - it’s just there so GW could pick it up in the future at some point if they want to. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marius au Posted November 18, 2020 Share Posted November 18, 2020 Really enjoyed this one and echo the sentiments that its a great start for the lore of broken realms. Kind of want to see Aenarion team up with Malerion, as it would provide some interesting interactions. But I also like the Kurnoth angle. Something else though, does this open up a possibility for the return of the old elven gods? I mean if a soul can survive in Slaanesh what about a god? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlooDeck Posted November 18, 2020 Share Posted November 18, 2020 I reread the Ritual passage and it doesn't seem like Aenarion escaped Slaanesh's stomach? Like he carves her in two and then Slaanesh's gurgles and spits out a protean being that chases after Morathi. Which seems more likely to be the Newborn than Aenarion right? Or is Aenarion the Newborn and he becomes an Ynnead equivalent? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackStreicher Posted November 18, 2020 Share Posted November 18, 2020 6 hours ago, BlooDeck said: Or is Aenarion the Newborn and he becomes an Ynnead equivalent? I approve of that! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Under the Mountain Posted November 18, 2020 Share Posted November 18, 2020 I think Aenarion if he sticks around would be more interesting with the Malekith faction of Elves and being opposed to Morathi. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord of the Isle Posted November 18, 2020 Share Posted November 18, 2020 (edited) Well one aspect of this question is what would you do if you were big A? 1 team up with the human upstart god and the few aelves sheltering with him, who include the remnants of Asuryan’s legacy? 2 claim the mantle of Khaine and punish your usurping deceiving traitorous second wife? Maybe lead male Khainite slave uprising? 3 burn the world and go Slaaneshi / pure Chaos? 4 check out your most consistently anti Chaos descendants on Hysh and their new children, rescued from Slaanesh like you but mostly relatively purified? Note that Tyrion basically is you but blind and Buddhist. He also is the only other wielder of the Widowmaker 5 check out your persistently surviving fallen son who has historically disgraced your legacy but who is perhaps even more like you than Tyrion. Help him redeem himself / take on his mother / fulfil his greatness? 6 go it totally alone, maybe with a few wandering aelf followers of all kinds, like Alith Anar crossed with Ynnead type thing? 7 check out Alarielle, who is also your descendant via Yvraine, and probably basically become Kurnoth 8 (weirdest one?) hang out under the sea with your descendants’ rejected creations Personally I like the look of 2, 5, and 6 most; others may disagree or have other ideas? If you then consider ‘what does GW actually want to add from him’ I am guessing - 1 development with one or more of the so far undealt with gods - Malerion, Tyrion, Kurnoth 2 or a Grand Alliance mixed Aelves option 3 or just possibly an incredibly scary leader for occasionally mentioned Chaos Aelves perfectly possible all this is a misreading and he isn’t even out of the belly tho!!! Edited November 18, 2020 by Lord of the Isle 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overread Posted November 18, 2020 Share Posted November 18, 2020 One thing we also must not overlook is what will Sigmar do after this betrayal. Remembering that of all the races left to their own devices when he closed the gates at the start of the Age of Chaos, the Daughters of Khaine survived pretty well compared to many others (we don't really know how well Malarion did because not much is said of shadow aelves). Not only that but they are one of the most die-hard anti-chaos forces up there with Stormcast and the Seraphon. So Sigmar is in a tricky spot because on the one hand the DoK are a very useful ally and weapon to use against chaos and a very reliable one - they won't swap sides for urgold; they won't panic and flee; they won't give up if the region they are in gets peaceful for a few generations (human lifespan). They will push the front line; they will fight; they will remain dedicated to driving Chaos out. And on the other they are led by Morathi who has and is proving to be very unreliable as an ally. The important thing to note is that the DoK at the bottom end - Queens - didn't break the contract; its Morathi who did it all. If anything if she were removed her faction would likely either implode (without her there to balance the queens against each other and remove any trouble-makers looking to take power); or continue on as a more settled ally without sudden attempts to backstab. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverstu Posted November 18, 2020 Share Posted November 18, 2020 Thing to remember is these are souls that escaped so they need an essence to form around. I don't think Aenarion fits with Lumineth- they have Tyrion, Khaine's essence was stolen by Morathi, Not sure how he would sit in with Malerion- [I can't see them appearing just yet and I think Aenarion will feature relatively soon in the story]. I really think the Kurnoth line would work - there's an essence there to claim, its a vehicle to resurrect Kurnoth and bring in the Kurothi and plus Kurnoth is a pretty angry character. The other side I think is they might do something completely new with him- maybe leading the remaining Aelves in the cities [which would seem a bit odd as they are classic HE and Lumineth are essentially AOS version classic HE. So I'm still betting on Kurnoth reborn [also because I reeeeaaaaaallly want Kurnothi!]. But then again - the GW fluff says that spirits [plural] escaped so what happens to the others... I'm not sure how Sigmar will treat Morathi- she did betray him, but also thwarted the chaos plans to invade Asyr and became more powerful, therefore more useful in the fight against Chaos. I think he will keep his distance but I doubt he will go after her as she has allies with the Idoneth. The Order alliance is looking distinctly more fractured.. Can't wait to see what Grungni gets up to in this story line [if he appears]. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xking Posted November 18, 2020 Share Posted November 18, 2020 (edited) 48 minutes ago, Overread said: One thing we also must not overlook is what will Sigmar do after this betrayal. Remembering that of all the races left to their own devices when he closed the gates at the start of the Age of Chaos, the Daughters of Khaine survived pretty well compared to many others (we don't really know how well Malarion did because not much is said of shadow aelves). Not only that but they are one of the most die-hard anti-chaos forces up there with Stormcast and the Seraphon. So Sigmar is in a tricky spot because on the one hand the DoK are a very useful ally and weapon to use against chaos and a very reliable one - they won't swap sides for urgold; they won't panic and flee; they won't give up if the region they are in gets peaceful for a few generations (human lifespan). They will push the front line; they will fight; they will remain dedicated to driving Chaos out. And on the other they are led by Morathi who has and is proving to be very unreliable as an ally. The important thing to note is that the DoK at the bottom end - Queens - didn't break the contract; its Morathi who did it all. If anything if she were removed her faction would likely either implode (without her there to balance the queens against each other and remove any trouble-makers looking to take power); or continue on as a more settled ally without sudden attempts to backstab. I don't think he is going to retaliate right away. I think he will put it off until later and focus on the realm of death. He is in his God-king aspect rather then his warrior aspect. He is more wise then he was in the age of myth and therefore will focus on the bigger picture. Like breaking the curse of shadespire etc. Shadespire as a City of Sigmar would be cool. I wonder what the rules would be. Edited November 18, 2020 by xking Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlooDeck Posted November 18, 2020 Share Posted November 18, 2020 21 minutes ago, silverstu said: So I'm still betting on Kurnoth reborn [also because I reeeeaaaaaallly want Kurnothi!]. But then again - the GW fluff says that spirits [plural] escaped so what happens to the others... I had to read up on the lore of Kurnoth because I just sort of presumed he was still around normally, but yeah. I'd like Kurnoth to return though I don't know if Aenarion really fits the bill. I guess he was the Phoenix King and Alarielle is the Everqueen. But yeah having an excuse to expand the Kurnothi were good. Honestly they have a lot of directions to go for Slyvaneth - expand the Outcasts under Drycha, resurrect the Lady of Vines and expand the dryads or bring Kurnoth to prominence and add all the goat-aelves. That's three more expansions, about as much as the Lumineth are slated to have! 24 minutes ago, silverstu said: I'm not sure how Sigmar will treat Morathi- she did betray him, but also thwarted the chaos plans to invade Asyr and became more powerful, therefore more useful in the fight against Chaos. I think he will keep his distance but I doubt he will go after her as she has allies with the Idoneth. The Order alliance is looking distinctly more fractured.. Can't wait to see what Grungni gets up to in this story line [if he appears]. Yeah, Order is taking a battering right now. I think Sigmar will have to respond to the threat of Morathi just to keep up his strength, whether it is sacking all her temples in the rest of the CoS or even one of her temple-cities. Whoever saved the Lord Veritant might be trying to stir up conflict between the two maybe? (And it has to be Malerion right? I swear the crimson eyes thing has been attributed to him before...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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