The Age of Sigmar lore and novels thread 2

[Overread]

21 minutes ago, Bayul said:

Oh, so Ghoulslayer isn't such an audio drama?  Now I feel naive...

No problem, its easy to mix up the two, esp as the terms sometimes get swapped over when casually talking (eg the audio drama often just gets called an audio book or audio). 

BL did do a limited edition print version of Realmslayer which really highlights how its a script rather than a written story. Neat book if you find it as they also put the cover art from all the Old World adventures in there. Sadly it appears to be gone from the BL site now so like as not if you wanted it you'd have to hunt around stores or secondhand. 

[EMMachine]

15 hours ago, Overread said:

Realmslayer isn't an audiobook but an audio drama, so its specifically made for audio. That means they use multiple voice actors; sound effects and cut a lot of the descriptive language that a book would have.

Audiobooks from BL are purely the regular books being read aloud, which is why they don't use sound effects and use just one narrator. 

I have at least listened to "Prisoner of the Black Sun", which should be an Audiobook (because it has a written story as well), it had a narrator, which is sadly not really the case for Audiodramas, but the characters had their own voices and there were soundeffects as well.

13 hours ago, Overread said:

BL did do a limited edition print version of Realmslayer which really highlights how its a script rather than a written story. Neat book if you find it as they also put the cover art from all the Old World adventures in there. Sadly it appears to be gone from the BL site now so like as not if you wanted it you'd have to hunt around stores or secondhand. 

It went last chance to buy november 3th, so it is possible that it is sold out by now because it seems to be removed at the GW shop as well.

Edited November 10, 2020 by EMMachine

[sandlemad]

Just finished the Bonereapers novel by David Guymer. It's good. The plot summary on the BL website - a free city in Shyish that's been paying the bone tithe for a century but has now taken on some Fyreslayers - doesn't quite touch on how it's the taking in of Fyreslayers (who are basically refugees as well as mercenaries and so arguably don't have contribute to the tithe) that is then used as a wedge issue by certain folks in the city's conclave to force their city into a rebellion against the Ossiarch. It's set about a century after the necroquake and there's four POVs: a freeguild general,  a freeguild outrider captain, a fyreslayer runeson, and a Liege-Kavalos of Ossia.

There's a lot on negotiations. The Ossiarch do things by the book. They meet every decade with the conclave in a temporary field camp, they offer wine, the conclave members are offered seats on bone chairs (which may be made in part of the bones of their parents, brothers, neighbours, themselves). They're polite but never more than they need to be. The freeguild general protagonist thinks that their superiority is so baked into their psyches that cruelty would actually be an effort. The bone tithe deal is of course one-sided and means that a significant amount of the city's military only have one arm, which makes a particular joke of stuff like their order of knights, once famous for overthrowing the vampiric overlords of the city centuries ago and now humbled by the Ossiarch's legalism.

You get to see through the eyes of the Liege-Kavalos Heraklis, only freshly raised to the post following the failure of his predecessor. He know's what's what. He's in military command but is otherwise subordinate to the Mortisian soulmason in charge of the tithe and negotiations. While the Mortisian has to consult his library of legal texts (a portable one stored inside the carapace of a large beetle-like bone construct) and confer with his peers back in Ossia via spirit-messenger before concluding that opening hostilities would be legal and fitting, Heraklis is privately blunter about it. He obeys and is happy to do so but he knows that as important as the legal niceties and correct form are, these things always end in violence, because Nagash is all and all are one in Nagash. 

Quote

His was an existence of intractable contradictions.

He craved the quietude promised by the Principia Necrotopia, and yet he was a composite of a hundred champions and heroes, an amalgam of their boisterous and warlike souls, the blunt instrument of his body moulded into its precise form with their bones.

He was a young being, and yet he was also old. Into him had gone the essences of war-beasts that knew nothing of time, of the aelf-like beings from the Perimeter Inimical who did not age as mortal creatures did, who had witnessed the first breaths of the gods and followed the fall and rise of civilisations as men did the growing of grass until the great inversion had heralded their fall.

He had never led his legion in battle, and yet he could recall a thousand campaigns. He had marshalled armies of Order and Darkness. He had toasted victory and commiserated defeat. He had been fêted by a dozen divine and semi-divine patrons, and been banished from the graces of a dozen more.

Now, through him, all of those experiences were one in Nagash.

Good action throughout. The Ossiarch do get a fair bit of 'new army' gloss. There's some Helms Deep-style scenes where the first Mortek guard to reach the top of the walls has to be essentially swarmed by freeguilders to take it down, and the bit where the trolls burst through the gate in Minas Tirith except it's Immortis guard and a Gothizzar Harvester. Despite that the freeguilders are portrayed as brave (if burdened by how many of them have over the years literally donated limbs to the Bone Tithe) and the Fyreslayers get a fine showing. They're vital and fiery, laughing and roaring and leaping into the fray, where the Ossiarch are cold and disciplined. Also gives a good idea of what a threat a Magmadroth is, it's like a living fire-breathing barricade.

It's nothing terribly complicated, it's largely a short siege novella, but if you're interested in the Ossiarch it's worthwhile.

[Candlelight]

It was an alright novella. Too much action for my taste, especially having limited number of pages, not that much room left for anything else. I would love to read more about Ossi politics, hierarchy, etc.

I was disappointed Fletcher didn't get to write it, his two Ossi short stories are one of the best AoS stories. I'm still hoping he gets to write more about them.

[NinthMusketeer]

First off, do we want to be marking things with spoilers when appropriate? At the least I think it would be polite to do so.

As for the novella, I also liked it. The drastic differences of perspective between humam, fyreslayer, and bonereaper (and even between different types of bonereaper) are done extremely well. Exactly how a culture and in particular a beings age would affect their mentality is something I see as only loosely accounted for in most fiction*. Here is is central to character motivations and viewpoints, as it very much should be. The OBR see the whole matter as a blip on the radar, ultimately just a single brick in the metaphorical (black) pyramid. To the fyreslayers on their slayer quest it is an opportunity for a worthy end. To the humans it is the fight of ages, the spotlight of the times, a massive event which will define them not just as individuals but as a society. I really enjoyed this aspect of the book for both its depth and for being as plausible as a writer could reasonably make it (being that the real would has no immortals).

One thing that did bug me was that the author did not seem to know that mortek guard are human-sized. A robust human sure, but not out of line for the average human soldier. The book quoted them as 10 feet tall (over 3 meters), which I would consider a typo if they weren't also described as being that massive in combat. I would also raise the unfortunately normal Warhammer issue of power differences being blown out of proportion; a mortek guard would butcher a single freeguilder but two could manage and three to four would consistently outfight a single mortek guard by a fair margin. However, the entire freeguild force here are missing their right arms. Given that, the ease at which the OBR slaughter them seems quite appropriate.

Also credit to the author for the detailed and absolutely gruesome description of a Harvester 'harvesting' someone who was incapacitated by combat but still alive, and the horror it invoked in those who witnessed it. Credit again for taking a few lines here and there to talk about OBR menials doing manual labor and 'chores' in the wake of the actual military. Stuff like that benefits the setting as a whole for portraying a wider view and adding depth.

*One particular pet peeve I have is how often settings have multi-century or millennia old elves with barely any adjustment to their mentality beyond having 'ranger-druid' as as culture (plus subtext about how their society is inherently better than other races').

[Grim Beasties]

Been wanting to read through the Gotrek and Felix stories in chronological order so I got the omnibuses as well as the thanquol one, but I was wondering if there was any other books I'm missing?

[Overread]

Sometimes I think BL authors aren't always sure what they are writing about. You can oft notice how some things get a mention in name and only general design, its very rare to get a detailed verbal description of something. They basically expect you to know or look at the GW webstore. A mortek at 10ft sounds like they've mixed up the guard with the stalkers. Or perhaps the story was started a lot further back than we realise and they got rough descriptions that changed between design concept and now (or the notes given to them were old notes or contained old information). 

1 hour ago, Grim Beasties said:

Been wanting to read through the Gotrek and Felix stories in chronological order so I got the omnibuses as well as the thanquol one, but I was wondering if there was any other books I'm missing?

 

There's a few not in the Omnibus editions. That said there's apparently a 6th one on Amazon up for pre-order for next year (or at least a listing for it). So I'd wager keep reading and by mid next year you'll have another chunk of the stories combined together. 

[shinros]

I just finished Sigvald and I wanted to write this post while the book is fresh in my mind. To start with, I was always aware of the character but back during my WHFB days I was more or less a vampire count fan since Slaanesh seemed to be a god half-forgotten about. So in light of our magnificent lord getting an update I decided to go back and read his warhammer fantasy book. Considering the link between both worlds and it's part of warhammer chronicles I decided to make this post since I suspect some themes would carry over, and after reading the book in it's entirety? I would say if you want an introduction of this character? Read the book.

Overall the novel is a good length, great cast of characters. What this book does compared to his whfb entry is show that Sigvald is a character of layers despite the certain memery behind him and that causes certain parts of this novel to be quite sad in my opinion. Also I think for those Slaanesh players out there who want to write backgrounds for their armies and leaders this would also be a good book to read. The novel goes into the pitfalls of Slaanesh worship and all it entails and how one would rise.

In the end I give the book a thumbs up.  After this novel Sigvald has definitely catapulted to be one of my favourite warhammer characters. 

Also my favourite part of this novel? Spoilers 

Sigvald had to go a crazy quest, because guess what? Slaanesh doesn't like basic followers. Something to think about, despite all the depravity going on in his castle, he got bored of him.

  

 

 

[shinros]

Right, an Audio drama, warhammer horror. I bought it at the recommendation of a poster. I don't regret it. Issue is though, it's quite difficult to write a review without spoiling it. So, what I will say is that if you are interested in a horror tale surrounding the nobility of the mortal realms and you have ten pounds lying around I say, give it a listen. The only downside I can note is my first audio drama was the hunt of nagash which had a third person narrator to help with description. I think it's generally needed for an audio drama because this one lacks it and this causes certain events to be muddled somewhat if you are not listening carefully. 

Overall though at the end of it, I became sad at the fact Josh Reynolds is no longer writing for Black Library. A loss I would say.  

 

[Vomikron]

On 11/18/2020 at 4:29 AM, sandlemad said:

Just finished the Bonereapers novel by David Guymer.

It's nothing terribly complicated, it's largely a short siege novella, but if you're interested in the Ossiarch it's worthwhile.

That sounds really cool actually. I love the idea of the Ossiarchs, I just wish their models weren’t so goofy.

Edited November 26, 2020 by Vomikron

[Shearl]

I just finished reading Warcry: Catacombs Blood of the Everchosen by Richard Strachan and want wanted to see if anyone else had any thoughts on it.

I picked it up primarily because Warcry is the game I play the most lately, and I wanted to get a better look at the Scions of the Flame. The novel follows characters from the Scions of the Flame, Untamed Beasts, Splintered Fangs, Stormcasts, and the various denizens of the Eightpoints. The chaos characters fall pretty widely upon the scale of evilness, while some are definitely cruel zealots others seem far more reasonable and you even get a decent look at the poor people who are just trying to survive by working the land and avoiding trouble. The book also highlights that visions and prophecies are what may happen rather than what will happen, the main example being that the main characters of each warband have received visions showing different outcomes regarding the same event. Ultimately it falls to the strength of each to attempt to make their visions come true.   

Without getting into spoilers here, the plot could potentially have dramatic impacts upon the whole of AoS’s lore. Yet at the same time we don’t really know what is true and what isn’t, and I think that’s another point the book is trying to make. When chaos and prophecies are involved its neigh impossible to tell what is truth and what is fiction. This book could easily be setting the stage for much larger narrative changes or the events of the book might never get mentioned again.

I feel the author managed to balance the action and more narrative elements well. Some of the combat sections did a good job of representing the dynamic combat of Warcry, especially the fighters making use of scaling and leaping from terrain. As is typical with Black Library books occasionally I felt the author turned to the thesaurus more often than needed, but the sometimes obtuse flowery language seems to be a stylistic choice in Warhammer novels (I’m not sure I’ve read a BL novel that didn’t include “anathema” or “cacophony” at least once). Is it high art? No but it was fun and helped further flesh out the Eightpoints and the diversity of chaos worshippers.

[Kramer]

First off this is going to be spoiler free as I haven’t finished the book yet but:

Can I just say the new Covens of Blood is really blowing my mind with little tidbits. 

to the point that I feel the writer might have overstepped a bit. 

what do you think. Contrary to the gotrek novel this suggest that the world that was, is common knowledge.

[Overread]

One issue with AoS lore is that bits of it are really hazy as to what is and isn't known. 

The World that Was is technically thousands of years past now. The Age of Myth was thousands of years ago; after an age of wilderness; mythological cilvization building, age of Chaos and god knows what other spells. In theory nothing really should have survived that long that isn't very powerful or hidden by those who are very powerful. 

 

I think the big disconnect is that GW launched into AoS and didn't really do much for the Age of Myth beyond a few, well, myths. So it "feels" very short on detail when its actually when most factions we know now rose up in power originally. A relic from back then should be exceptionally rare to the point of almost being impossible. 

 

I think the first story does feel like the author didn't quite have the best grasp of the lore considering that medusa transformation is mentioned as a spell. 

But there's also lore gaps, eg GW hasn't really covered the concept of mages in training within the army. Witch Aelves might have a spell or two; but an actual in-training mage is different to them and yet we don't really know. We know that those who rise in power typically become queens and Warlocks hold quite considerable power of their own (if part shackled). 

Heck when you get into the second story there's a good feeling of "this is the Drow" style of society that the writer has gone for, which is likely making up for the fact that we don't actually know how DoK society functions outside of the military arm of the religion. 

[Uncas]

Small spoiler from Covens of Blood,  but Hellebron(and Har Ganeth) lives!

Edited November 27, 2020 by Uncas

[MaatithoftheBrand]

2 hours ago, Overread said:

One issue with AoS lore is that bits of it are really hazy as to what is and isn't known. 

The World that Was is technically thousands of years past now. The Age of Myth was thousands of years ago; after an age of wilderness; mythological cilvization building, age of Chaos and god knows what other spells. In theory nothing really should have survived that long that isn't very powerful or hidden by those who are very powerful. 

 

I think the big disconnect is that GW launched into AoS and didn't really do much for the Age of Myth beyond a few, well, myths. So it "feels" very short on detail when its actually when most factions we know now rose up in power originally. A relic from back then should be exceptionally rare to the point of almost being impossible. 

 

I think the first story does feel like the author didn't quite have the best grasp of the lore considering that medusa transformation is mentioned as a spell. 

But there's also lore gaps, eg GW hasn't really covered the concept of mages in training within the army. Witch Aelves might have a spell or two; but an actual in-training mage is different to them and yet we don't really know. We know that those who rise in power typically become queens and Warlocks hold quite considerable power of their own (if part shackled). 

Heck when you get into the second story there's a good feeling of "this is the Drow" style of society that the writer has gone for, which is likely making up for the fact that we don't actually know how DoK society functions outside of the military arm of the religion. 

It might not be an excuse or explanation that pleases everyone here, but there are a few ways of IC / in-universe explaining the difference. For example, in day to day modern England some people might vaguely know that there was once an historical period called "The Golden Age of Islam". A handful of those might vaguely be aware of what the Caliphate looked like and how it differs from modern misuses of the world and its interactions with bits of the wider world, and then one or two are Historians / Doctors of Medieval Islam or similar. And in the Middle Ages, most peasants/soldiers would have had a cosmology/vague understanding of the spiritual story of the world, a fair chunk of them might have known that beyond that allegory there were other facts and histories they don't know. Then monks and gentry and the likes would have had a more thorough understanding of world history and the sciences/theology and the like. Then there's Francis of Assissi trying to compile all knowledge like its going out of fashion.
Similiarly in AoS, it could be that to most of the Realms the idea that there was a World-that-Was isn't even an idea that they entertain. A handful might know that it existed and that some beings - Sigmar, Nagash, the Seraphon, appear to have some connection to it. Then there will be scholars, or those with connections to the gods (the Aelven nations and enclaves, a handful of the most learned Azyrites, weird collectors of curios and relics, etc) who actually have some vague understanding of parts of what the surviving relics can tell and what the gods remember - they know the elves of old were masters of ornate cavalry, or that Arkhan cursed Eletharion at the end of all things, or that there was a great city of moving streets called Altdorf where towers of magic shone like beacons.

 

Also, with the Daughters of Khaine I always got the idea that there is only the military arm of the religion - that they are effectively Templars/Crusader States (in a more pop culture sense than historical sense). There might be other Khainites, and indeed there might be a "civilian district" of many of the Temples where Aelven and Human Khainites live and work, but fundamentally all there is to the Daughters of Khaine society is the rituals and prayers and training of the Witch Aelves and their allies.

[Overread]

1 minute ago, MaatithoftheBrand said:

Also, with the Daughters of Khaine I always got the idea that there is only the military arm of the religion - that they are effectively Templars/Crusader States (in a more pop culture sense than historical sense). There might be other Khainites, and indeed there might be a "civilian district" of many of the Temples where Aelven and Human Khainites live and work, but fundamentally all there is to the Daughters of Khaine society is the rituals and prayers and training of the Witch Aelves and their allies.

See I find it hard to imagine them like this because any army requires a large civilian population to function. Someone has to get food, make weapons, clothes, organise rotas, take the taxes, farm the herds, trade, maintain the roads, heck build the roads. Granted the fact that the DoK have not built as big an empire thus far as many others, would suggest that such things are not as important to them as they are to say, Sigmar; however at the same time they still require a civilian population. 

Heck the Temples only focus on women and the odd warlock; the male population has to do something in their time to be productive. Plus don't forget when a witch aelf gets with child she's not going to be running around on the Battlefield the "whole" time. She's going to have to take time off to raise the child. 

 

DoK fails to function as a well rounded faction if there's nothing but the temples. If they've no actual cities or settlements; no life outside of being a Witch Aelf, then they start to founder and falter. Now thus far we've really no clear idea how the civilian side might function - the second story in Covens suggests that its akin to the "Drow" of DnD - lots of slaves, whipped males and such - all living a tortured or at least hard life. However its only one point of reference and the story makes it clear that not even Coven is "the same". I'd also expect that there are temples that are more "leaches" off the civilian section and look down or ignore it so most of their conversation and world view is going to be focused on their temples. 

 

[MaatithoftheBrand]

Fair enough - I seem to remember before they got their own Army Book and we focused more on the Uglu and Morathi side of things, the Khainite Temples were explicitly a weird temple or two in Azyrite / Free Cities where beautiful Aelf women held gladiatorial combats for fans (suggesting that this was how they made their money/supported themselves without a strict need for an in-built civilian population) and that as a slight downside people living near a Khainite district were a little more likely than most to vanish from their beds on religiously significant nights.

With what we know of the full-on Temples (as entire settlements), it is more conjecture, but the Army Book does speak an arcanely reduced male population as a slave-labour base for the society, from which the Warlocks occasionally arise. The existence of the Khainite Shadowstalkers also implies a more skilled / conventional lay population from which the most loyal can be selected and trained in stealth/shadow magic by Morathi and her Melusai, and knowing Morathi's paranoia and focus on Cult of Personality, it is unlikely many if any of these are drawn from Cities where Morathi does not have severe control. This hints at lay communities around the Temples, although this is far more conjecture and it is still possible that Sorceresses loyal to Morathi helped recruit Shadowstalkers from amongst their Covens in the Free Cities.

It does not seem to be a particularly diverse society, and indeed the events of the latest campaign book suggest that Morathi is at least on some level aware of a need for more temporal power to support her church-state. However, until the novels or Soulbound sourcebooks go into more details - a highly stratified Clergy/Slave Labour society, with close ties to secular and lay communities in the Free Cities, seems like an... okay level of detail for an army book to go into? After all, its not like even with all the information about how the World-that-Was worked the Empire Army Books ever gave us much detail about Morr or Imperial Society or the offshoots in the Border Princes and Marienburg beyond the broad strokes needed to explain how the State Army worked and clashed with Beastmen.

In summary - I would also like more detail on the Daughters and indeed a lot of the different societies in the Mortal Realms, but until Soulbound or the novels can help, the fact that with some thought and some charitable inferences the Daughters of Khaine work better than most Underdark societies in D&D as a functional way to structure a real society is good enough for me for the time being.

[Overread]

Thing is Old World was built on the back of Lord of the Rings and a whole generation of fantasy that was very much copy-catting the same source material. You didn't really need extensive lore on how Empire or Bretonnia lived because you could easily make it up yourself and have some general agreement between different people.

Plus as time went on there were plenty of stories - most of the Gotrek and Felix stories look at the common person. We've whole tales set in places like Nuln that show how people lived. 

 

 

The Mortal Realms are harder because they are based more off a World of Warcraft style era of fantasy which focuses very very heavily on the military side of things. As a result we often have very little development of the social structures and civilisations that underpin and allow the societies and armies to function. When the Mortal Realms is specifically made to allow for vast variety within factions it also makesit hard for two fans to find common ground.

 

Whilst one might see slaves whipped, beaten and downtrotten under heavy abuse another might see them simply as menial workers who are treated fair, but are unable to socially rise up from base jobs. Even then we have to wonder who does the fine work - do slaves simply work the bellows of forges or do they attain mastery of the smiths hammer even if its considered both important and yet at the same time a "lay" job not as important as a Witch Aelf. 

The DoK stories we have thus far very heavily focus on war which colours our impressions of the rest of their society, yet the way some characters, like Malineth, behave and act suggests that there's more to DoK culture than purely the Witch Aelf Way. 

 

 

I do think that Morathi's faction has been in the background; growing slower than many others and her focus on the temple forces might well have resulted in an old population of Aelves who are very warriorlike, but who have a very impoverished level of population growth - perhaps not aided by Morathi blighting her own males.

 

Heck that point alone is a huge one to consider. The males of the DoK are weak in a society that embodies a very literal "survival of the strongest" attitude. One would think that means the males would be ignored/abandoned and not used for breeding - how can you ensure strong women when the males are weak. And yet we've not heard of the DoK extensively seeking strong males outside of their own faction. This might mean either they treat their males with sufferance or perhaps even pity. 

[Clan's Cynic]

21 hours ago, Kramer said:

what do you think. Contrary to the gotrek novel this suggest that the world that was, is common knowledge.

Isn't there a Free City (Excelsis) where people get visions of the World That Was, being built around a fragment of it?

The Mortal Realms are so huge, it's probably not a stretch to assume there's vast swathes, if not most of the mortal population, haven't heard about it before whilst in others it's common knowledge, albeit only to more scholary/learned individuals and groups.

[Kramer]

5 hours ago, Clan's Cynic said:

Isn't there a Free City (Excelsis) where people get visions of the World That Was, being built around a fragment of it?

The Mortal Realms are so huge, it's probably not a stretch to assume there's vast swathes, if not most of the mortal population, haven't heard about it before whilst in others it's common knowledge, albeit only to more scholary/learned individuals and groups.

I though it was just general flashes from time before and yet to come. That's why their coins called glimmerings right? Because you see glimmers of your future which might be worth more. 

[NinthMusketeer]

Excelsius shards give visions of the future, not the past. It is ostensibly a shard of Mallus as I recall, but that is an in-universe explanation that could be false... I think? It's been a while.

@Daughters of Khaine, males who survive or even thrive despite being abused slaves would make perfect breeding fodder. Added bonus is it acts as a big incentive for them to work and try to do well despite their position.

In regards to the Old World and knowing of it, having a faction of where the leader and many of the followers are literally from there makes it more likely such knowledge would be present within that society. I would guess that aelves in general are far more likely to be privy to that information given the beings they interact with.

[LuminethMage]

About the DoK in Ulgu: One thing that was mentioned in Soulbound (I think), is that the majority of the population in Ulgu are humans. Aelves wield the most power though. So the whole DoK aelf society could just made be possible by using a lot of human (and other) slave labour. That's pretty much how it was also explained in Warhammer Fantasy for the DE. 

About the memories of the World that Was: In the Lumineth BT, it's mentioned that the Lumineth have a very vague understanding that there was a predecessor world to the Realms, and what Teclis did there (from his POV of course: ) ). I think how MaatithoftheBrand explained it above does make a lot of sense. For the Lumineth it seems, most know it existed, the souls of their ancestors (or theirs, that's still a bit murky) came from there, and Teclis made heroic efforts to save it. Aelves who dig further into it, probably could come to a more varied and nuanced look of it. I'm sure this is also information that the various god try to control and shape which adds another layer to it. 

 

[Popisdead]

On 11/25/2020 at 12:44 PM, NinthMusketeer said:

First off, do we want to be marking things with spoilers when appropriate? At the least I think it would be polite to do so.

You are correct, there is a hidden function on the forums people should be using.  

On 11/27/2020 at 6:34 AM, Overread said:

The World that Was is technically thousands of years past now. The Age of Myth was thousands of years ago; after an age of wilderness; mythological cilvization building, age of Chaos and god knows what other spells. In theory nothing really should have survived that long that isn't very powerful or hidden by those who are very powerful. 

I think,.,. AoS has had thousands of years of stuff let alone the world that was.  AFIAK you could add a zero or two to thousand's. Something makes me think Phil Kelly has said comments about Chaos in ascendancy for thousands of years in the current age of AoS.

[Overread]

I think the Age of Chaos has been fairly well established as being around 4-500 years or so in duration. Remembering that the start date is blurry because even though it was a massive invasion it will still have taken time to hit all the regions of the realms. Many might well take the start date to be when Sigmar closed the Realmgates and withdrew (just like when he opened them it marks the end of the Age of Chaos). 

A few hundred years also fits because we do have relics and remains from before the fall and some memories. What's interesting is that many factions have either got around to life as it was before or they appear to show very little memory of the Age of Myth. Which is surprising when we then get references to the World that Was since that was even older and should be even older and more blurry than the myths and legends of the realms themselves. 

Indeed its somewhat of a cop-out that many factions operate similar to Old World ones (eg Scourge Pirates have Black Arks) because the timescales involved would have obliterated many similar themes like that through simple change over time. 

[NinthMusketeer]

I mean if the elf refugees had the knowledge to make black marks I don't see why they wouldn't adapt that for use in AoS. They don't work entirely the same in AoS as they did in WHFB. As for the world-that-was, consider that anything remaining from it must be extremely resilient to damage by virtue of it having survived at all; surviving the age of chaos is comparatively easy. The old world was also a lot more grounded and less fantastical; the knowledge is far l more likely to be within the frame of reference a mortal can understand. Whereas a lot of the stuff the gods were up to during the Age of Myth would be incomprehensible to most mortals in its cosmic scale, prompting stories to explain those events in relative terms.

A general theme I also see in regards to the Age of Myth is that what was really lost was stability. It was less about the loss of great knowledge or tools (which are often still around anyways) and more about the loss of multi-realm social order where civilization had no barriers that could not be overcome through cooperation. The idea that there was vast portions of the realm at peace and without warfare. Bar Azyr, such areas are now few and far between, metaphorical candles in the dark. The vast majority of 'civilized' areas are still under a constant state of conflict if not open war.