Frowny Posted October 15, 2022 Share Posted October 15, 2022 There are some pretty solid combos and units in the book. -Nurgle banner on anything with a 3+ save (which is conveniently all the things that take the banners) gives a 3+ ignore rend -1. Put it on 20 warriors on an objective and I'm not sure what can get them off it. -legion of the first prince + demon prince gets you whichever demon prince ability you need that turn? Turn off wards to fight the Phoenix guard, get the teleport spell to save something, or the khorne one to heal up. -khorne knights+sorc lord. Unit of 5 gets 20 attacks at 3+/2+/-2/2, for an average of 10ish damage into even a 2+ save. Could also give them the 6+ ward and mystic shield if you'd prefer them to be very tanks - archeon. By himself. Just archeon. A 1 man army. With his new wounds and saves and healing he'll be so hard to bring down -battleline furies. These guys are already very annoying and if they don't change much battleline 12 wounds for 90pts is a steal. Several units of expert conquerers will be everywhere to take objectives while your hammers go hammering. I think one type of list will be a few units if cultists or furies or marauder horsemen to do objectives and then 2-3 bigger units to go do the fighting, maybe knights or warriors or varanguard, plus a few little heroes to support. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archion89 Posted October 15, 2022 Share Posted October 15, 2022 (edited) 2 hours ago, Grimrock said: I'm sure you mean that knights with allies will do some crazy stuff, but that reminds me of something interesting I noticed. S2D units will no longer have marks when taken in other armies. Not a big mechanical deal in general as most of the mono-god stuff is being changed over to work off the book keyword (ex. Disciples of Tzeentch instead of just Tzeentch) but it still feels weird. Also thinking of some more options for princes, I noticed that Despoilers buffs Monsters with no caveat, so Archaon and Be'lakor both get the buff. 27 wounds on Archaon with a 5+ ward means he has effectively 41 wounds. Not only that, but they can both be healed by 'Radiance of Dark Glory' which is just silly. I was thinking Archaon in despoilers backed up by a couple support princes could be pretty fun but I'm waiting on the cultist and marauder warscrolls before I dive too deep into list building. Those cheap battleline options are going to be a pretty big deal when everything else in the book is so elite. Archaon is locked to Host of the Everchosen and Be’lakor to Legion of the First Prince based on the keywords. So no go there. Edited October 15, 2022 by Archion89 Spelling is hard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimrock Posted October 15, 2022 Share Posted October 15, 2022 41 minutes ago, Archion89 said: Archaon is locked to Host of the Everchosen and Be’lakor to Legion of the First Prince based on the keywords. So no go there. Booooo, that kills running and charging Empty Throne Archaon and Cabalist Be'lakor too. Good catch though, didn't even think to check for the new keywords since they didn't have them in the current book. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rors Posted October 15, 2022 Share Posted October 15, 2022 3 hours ago, Grimrock said: Can't unfortunately, blood tithe has gone to Blades of Khorne only. Also since they no longer get to pick marks when they're taken in other armies they don't get to benefit from any of the Khorne specific buffs in the BoK army (or any other armies for that matter). You could bring a unit over and include a chaos sorcerer as well for buffs, but I don't think that'll really be worth the cost. Yeah I realized after typing that blood tithe wouldn't work, still gives them access to a hammer that can be buffed though. Not as good as in our book but still better than most of their options. 1 hour ago, Archion89 said: Archaon is locked to Host of the Everchosen and Be’lakor to Legion of the First Prince based on the keywords. So no go there. You can still give Belakor a new mark each turn in legion though. Seems underwhelming compared to the other legions but there's also eternus and his new legionnaires and stuff so maybe there's a good list using it 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malakithe Posted October 15, 2022 Share Posted October 15, 2022 9 hours ago, novakai said: full Ogroid army Ooh that would look so good. Your basically playing Ogors with horns at that point though lol but I love the models Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beliman Posted October 15, 2022 Share Posted October 15, 2022 7 hours ago, Grimrock said: Can't unfortunately, blood tithe has gone to Blades of Khorne only. Also since they no longer get to pick marks when they're taken in other armies they don't get to benefit from any of the Khorne specific buffs in the BoK army (or any other armies for that matter). You could bring a unit over and include a chaos sorcerer as well for buffs, but I don't think that'll really be worth the cost. Not sure about that. I understand that Mark of Chaos is a battletrait now, but a FAQ explicity says that you must still give them a Keyword: Quote -2 in every 4 units in the army can be a coalition unit from the Slaves to Darkness faction that has the Mark of Chaos keyword. Those units must be given the Slaanesh Mark of Chaos keyword. Coalition units should not have their chaos mark buff, but they should have the keyword for any combo (until a new book/faq removes changes their keyword). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kokoshi Posted October 15, 2022 Share Posted October 15, 2022 Regarding Gorebeasts, abilities wording are all written in the same way : "this unit" stands for the warscroll unit, and "that unit" stands for any unit mentioned in the ability (usually an enemy unit). 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hobbit Posted October 15, 2022 Share Posted October 15, 2022 Has the old legion of the first Prince army been discontinued now? Very sad if that's the case. Also how does units like lords of change and the blue scribes work if taken as allies? Their warscrolls say they know all of a lore from a different book. I know they can't take spell enhancements from the disciples of tzeentch book but their scroll says they still know those spells. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackStreicher Posted October 15, 2022 Share Posted October 15, 2022 Lists ate going to be small! (I like that) example List I threw together: 1x Karkadrak Lord 1x Sorcerer Lord 2x Knights 2x Marauders 2x Warriors 2x Chosen 1x Furies ——> 1980 points 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackStreicher Posted October 15, 2022 Share Posted October 15, 2022 22 minutes ago, Hobbit said: Has the old legion of the first Prince army been discontinued now? Very sad if that's the case. Also how does units like lords of change and the blue scribes work if taken as allies? Their warscrolls say they know all of a lore from a different book. I know they can't take spell enhancements from the disciples of tzeentch book but their scroll says they still know those spells. They‘d be rather useless I am afraid since they don’t benefit from anything Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaskier Posted October 15, 2022 Share Posted October 15, 2022 (edited) Well, until the recent Sylvaneth book (and a recent errata prior to it) Alarielle's warscroll stated she knew the entire Lore of the Deepwood - meaning she knew the entire Lore even if taken in a Living City Cities of Sigmar army. It now specifically says she only knows the entire lore if she's taken in a Sylvaneth army. Per the Lord of Change warscroll, it just knows the entire Lore of Fate - no strings attached. By my reading, it and the Blue Scribes should be fine as allies. Edited October 15, 2022 by Jaskier 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackStreicher Posted October 15, 2022 Share Posted October 15, 2022 1 minute ago, Jaskier said: Well, until the recent Sylvaneth book (and a recent errata prior to it) Alarielle's warscroll stated she knew the entire Lore of the Deepwood - meaning she knew the entire Lore even if taken in a Living City Cities of Sigmar army. It now specifically says she only knows the entire lore if she's taken in a Sylvaneth army. Per the Lord of Change warscroll, it just knows the entire Lore of Fate - no strings attached. By my reading, it and the Blue Scribes should be fine as allies. Sadly this will surely be FAQed as well. It’s a pitty, O‘d love more interactions across chaos factions Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hobbit Posted October 15, 2022 Share Posted October 15, 2022 Thanks for the reply. I suspect you're right and it will be faq'd even if it is the case. Fingers crossed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimrock Posted October 15, 2022 Share Posted October 15, 2022 7 hours ago, Beliman said: Not sure about that. I understand that Mark of Chaos is a battletrait now, but a FAQ explicity says that you must still give them a Keyword: Coalition units should not have their chaos mark buff, but they should have the keyword for any combo (until a new book/faq removes changes their keyword). That's current FAQ though and only works with the current book. I'm expecting either it will have to change with the new release or they'll have to FAQ the new book to change how marks are assigned. It says right in there that you only assign marks if you are picking the models for a Slaves to Darkness army, very clearly. Again not a big deal because having the Slaanesh/Tzeentch/Nurgle keywords mean almost nothing outside the S2D book, but it's definitely a little weird. I'm still considering if I want to get the new box or not. I think the daemon prince is solid and I won't mind getting it, but I'm still on the fence with chosen and the ogroids. Both fill a similar role with one being a discount version of the other. Chosen should hit like an absolute truck but they're pretty slow and extremely expensive points wise. I'd love to think I'd take 10 in a list but that's 480 points which is a huge chunk of an army to throw into a speed 5 unit. Ogroids are cheaper, but they're really squishy and still suffer from the speed issue. I guess the thing is knights also fulfill a similar role to both, but they're faster and can get run and charge with knights of the empty throne. What do you guys think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beliman Posted October 15, 2022 Share Posted October 15, 2022 1 minute ago, Grimrock said: That's current FAQ though and only works with the current book. I'm expecting either it will have to change with the new release or they'll have to FAQ the new book to change how marks are assigned. It says right in there that you only assign marks if you are picking the models for a Slaves to Darkness army, very clearly. Again not a big deal because having the Slaanesh/Tzeentch/Nurgle keywords mean almost nothing outside the S2D book, but it's definitely a little weird. Yep, I know. I mean, I play KOs, an army that contradicted 3.0 rules, and could only be played using 2.0 FAQs... I'm just saying that it can happen to Slaves to darkness too. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neverchosen Posted October 15, 2022 Share Posted October 15, 2022 So a Despoilers Demon Prince with Bolstered by Chaos gets how many additional wounds? Is it just the 2 for the trait or do you get 4 for the Monster keyword plus the trait? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackStreicher Posted October 15, 2022 Share Posted October 15, 2022 5 minutes ago, Neverchosen said: So a Despoilers Demon Prince with Bolstered by Chaos gets how many additional wounds? Is it just the 2 for the trait or do you get 4 for the Monster keyword plus the trait? usually it's the highest of both if both apply 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frowny Posted October 15, 2022 Share Posted October 15, 2022 I would read it as +4 wounds but I'm no expert. Still, I think some of the other traits are too good to pass up. The extra heroic action seems quite good for example and even the 'use any god ability' i think is actually quite strong since some of the effects are excellent but situational so even one use is great. Turning off wards one time when you really need it for example is excellent. We haven't seen any of the monsters but that one definitely has potential. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hannibal Posted October 15, 2022 Share Posted October 15, 2022 32 minutes ago, Frowny said: We haven't seen any of the monsters but that one definitely has potential. We´ve seen the Manticore which now has no degrading characteristics. I think it´s a good option now. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackStreicher Posted October 15, 2022 Share Posted October 15, 2022 Does anybody know a good (stl) alternative to the GW Manticore? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archion89 Posted October 15, 2022 Share Posted October 15, 2022 I’m feeling like the warshrine isn’t a must pick anymore unless you have a specific goal in mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimrock Posted October 15, 2022 Share Posted October 15, 2022 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Archion89 said: I’m feeling like the warshrine isn’t a must pick anymore unless you have a specific goal in mind. I'd agree. The Slaanesh and Nurgle prayers are decent and the Tzeentch one is pretty amazing, but having it locked to only using the prayer for its mark and only being able to target the matching mark is really limiting. I think if you're going heavy on anything that isn't Khorne or Undivided then you could consider bringing one along, but if you're running a mixed list then I don't think you'll want one. I found one thing for the FAQ, currently the spell from the Mark of Tzeentch doesn't have any limitation on moving after setting the unit up. It's possible that it was intended as the Mark of Tzeentch is pretty useless otherwise, but that spell is bonkers as is. Edited October 15, 2022 by Grimrock Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halkbat Posted October 15, 2022 Share Posted October 15, 2022 I think the shrine will still be worth it for protection of the dark gods aura especially since it degrades in range slower going 18 15 12 9 with more generous brackets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spenson Posted October 15, 2022 Share Posted October 15, 2022 (edited) Assuming that the chaos lord on manticore gets his 3+ save i was thinking about a fun Despoilers list: - chaos lord on manticore of Nurgle (idolater Lord) - Daemon Prince of Tzeentch (Not to be denied) - Daemon Prince of Nurgle (Bolstered by Chaos + Conqueror's crown) - 20 chaos warriors of Nurgle + banner - 2x8 Iron golems of Nurgle (chaos mark because of Idolater Lord) - 3 soulgrinders (1 of Nurgle, 2 of Khorne) The soulgrinders are in a linebreaker and the chaos warriors + iron golems are expert conquerors. Soulgrinders are not a very good unit but with +2 wounds and the new mark they look passable. This is more of a "fun" list and probably not something I'd bring to tournaments. A Krondspine could provide an aura of +1 to hit to the soulgrinders but there's not much room for it in the army. For more serious stuff, Archaon, a chaos sorcerer lord of Tzeentch and 20 warriors of nurgle with the banner seems like the good start for a Host of the Everchosen army. Edited October 15, 2022 by spenson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xasz Posted October 15, 2022 Share Posted October 15, 2022 54 minutes ago, Halkbat said: I think the shrine will still be worth it for protection of the dark gods aura especially since it degrades in range slower going 18 15 12 9 with more generous brackets. Why would you ever bring it if every unit you are realistically gonna put on the table has a 5++ or better by default? Only exception I see atm are mono'ish lists with points to spare or marauder/cultist lists. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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