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Gareth 🍄

Warhammer - The Old World

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28 minutes ago, Evangelist of Cinders said:

So does the design coming from forgeworld solidify this as a forgeworld game?

It's Specialist Studio. So most likely following the same formula as Middle Earth, Blood Bowl, Necromunda,... Plastic unit kits on GW site + resin characters on FW site.

 

Also, Age Of The Three Emperors period seems more or less confirmed by this comment of the AoS FB Page: 

This article might give you a hint what time The Old World plays in *link to the previous article*

Kislev was founded during this time.

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Didn't expect them to go north .. I hope they do Norse Dwarfs- they'd be perfect- give Dwarf players something new, something that hasn't been worked on in a very long time... 

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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, michu said:

And some people on facebook already complained that this unit looks to AoS, doesn't fit WFB and GW ruined their game again... Sigmar's beard, now I undestand Archaon.

 

Friend of mine is from kyrgyzstan and she actually has a headgear that looks like the one of the upper right. Looks kinda Old world to me. 

Love the Model and Kislev. I found my next Project. Awesome 

 

 

Edited by Dukeus

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Posted (edited)

Kislev were one of my two World World armies (the other being Big Hat Chaos Dwarfs), and I hope these are at the upper-end of the fantastical spectrum.

They feel about right for a special unit in the Old World, but a bit too "out there" to be the baseline average. Until we have more reveals to show whether these are an anomaly or typical TOA units, it's difficult to be too concerned or excited (depending on your position).

It's probably an awkward balance for the marketing team. Do you initially reveal the more "out there" concepts to try and ignite interest of non-WHFB players, or lean heavily Old School and pseudo-historical (e.g. Winged Lancers, etc.) to ignite the interest in - and removed the fears of - lapsed WHFB fans?

If this end up being a typical Old World unit, the other issue is that they would feel kinda wasted in that game. As someone who likes both settings for differing reasons, I'd prefer to see that kind of unit in AoS - a game and setting where a proper ice-based faction is conspicuously absent.

Edited by Kyriakin

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Posted (edited)

they seem like the logical conclusion to body guard/elite troops for kislev. Ice magic is respected in kislev, with their first Tsarinna being an Ice witch (aswell as their last) and ice magic being more stable then other magics, it makes sence that in a culture that accepts magic to an extent would use mage-warrior units as elite soldiers.

they also seem to be on the same level as grail knights, being elite magical humans with glowing weapons, in terms of fantasy level. the difference being these girls are naturally magical and then trained for combat while grail knights are belessed into magical beings by their god after proveing themselves.

 

I am glad this isn't just going to be an empire game, with multiple empire factions and now kislev confirmed. so far I am more interested in Kislev. 

Edited by Turin Turambar
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It's not the ice magic. Sisters have magical bows, and I don't mind those. It's the senseless spikes on the bows, the crudeness of the fork, the flaring of the blades, the weird angles on them, the length of the single handed weapon and everything about the guard.

Which are all fixable with clippers, a knife and spare parts. They did the hard part right, the body, the head, and the rest of the aesthetic.

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13 hours ago, sandlemad said:

I get it though? It's an odd thing to lead with. Not that it's out of bounds or doesn't fit but if you were launching a reboot of the old WHFB setting, it's weird for the first thing you show to be a human unit with magical weapons. Apart from Grail Knights, I can't think of any other examples of human units like that and only a handful of other units. If the point was to make this the semi-low fantasy, historically inspired, 'grounded' alternative to AoS (and I  genuinely mean that in a neutral way), why start with these guys?

Also weird for it to be Kislev! I love Kislev, Riders of the Dead  is the best WHFB novel to my mind and I nearly started a Kislev-modded empire army back in 6th ed,  but  even as fan favourites they're surely pretty low down the totem pole. They're not even in the Total War games in any major way. Why start with them? Why not Empire or something? Only thing I can think of is that it's meant to indicate that the FW crew are going into the slightly more obscure and historically underrepresented aspects/parts of the background.

One of the cool things about AoS is how free the developers are to make anything they want, since pretty much nothing was fleshed out at first. So maybe they're trying to take that experience with them back into TOW, by starting with one of the  less fleshed out factions? (not a WFHB player, but I assume Kislev is less fleshed out than say The Empire?) 

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Just as we noticed that AoS armies seem to try to make more “grounded” or more “high fantasy” armies/fluff/builds possible lately, this unit seems to suggest that they try a similar path for oldworld.

To me it’s a strong hint that they will try to make most units playable in both games. A trend that we also see in AoS & specialist games. It adds value/usefulness to a model if you can use it in several different games. I think that’s the overarching pattern.

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10 hours ago, Evangelist of Cinders said:

So does the design coming from forgeworld solidify this as a forgeworld game?

It already was solid. It’s being done by the Specialist Games team, which are part of Forge World. 

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, zilberfrid said:

It's not the ice magic. Sisters have magical bows, and I don't mind those. It's the senseless spikes on the bows, the crudeness of the fork, the flaring of the blades, the weird angles on them, the length of the single handed weapon and everything about the guard.

Which are all fixable with clippers, a knife and spare parts. They did the hard part right, the body, the head, and the rest of the aesthetic.

Have you seen a scimitar? Those swords are not unrealistic. They even have similarly shaped guards like real scimitars. And why the bident is so crude? Because it's made of ice, it wasn't going to be symetrical.

EDIT: And for people that said "even Phoenix Guard wield regular weapons". But they have divine protection of Asuryan. It's not going to be seen on the model but they as magical as Ice Guard. Magic and blessings can have different forms. Like chaos gifts. WFB was never as historical and low fantasy as you think.

Edited by michu
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10 minutes ago, michu said:

Have you seen a scimitar? Those swords are not unrealistic. They even have similarly shaped guards like real scimitars. And why the bident is so crude? Because it's made of ice, it wasn't going to be symetrical.

They are not scimitars. You may be thinking of falchions, which are broader and less curved, They are not that either.

These guards are spiky, which would be a literal pain to wear, as well as a risk to your own arms when fencing and binding on your own stuff.

The left one seems to be double edged, with a weird and uncomfortable thin bit right behind the guard. The guard seems very thick, though this may be due to angling. It sits in a historically very rare blade to head ratio that doesn't make it like a naginata, glaive or similar polearm, but also not a sword. This makes both polearm and two handed sword techniques awkward to use.

The middle one is very odd, the guard makes it impossible to use it other than fingers to the left, but that implies a draw cut motion (due to the angle between grip and blade) that doesn't really sit well with the straight blade shape. The grip is also of a weird intermediate length, because the pommel does not seem to be made for gripping.

The dagger/machette seems functional enough, a bit kukri-like. A smoother blade would make it more comfortable to use and more durable, but this isn't bad.

Take away the ice, and the fork is usable, though very short for a polearm (if it's not to be wielded with the shield, otherwise perfectly fine).

The bow does not seem to be a regular composite, but overcomplicated with lots of transitions that will decrease flexibility and durability, and the spikes are just silly. I like the arrows though, with the ice magic just where you'd want it: on the bit that goes into the enemy.

This all is changeable by hobbyists rather easily, and I am already thrilled enough just with the design of bodies and faces. Overdesigned stuff is easily toned down for people that prefer that, but if you really like this style, making it more intricate is harder. I would not mind if they came out looking like this, though I would immediately change it to my preference.

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Also let’s not forget that ice witches, sworn to the ice queen to protect the land, were an established fact in Kislev. Seems a logical step to recruit some into an elite force in times of danger.

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3 minutes ago, zilberfrid said:

Take away the ice, and the fork is usable

The point of this bident is to be an ice bident. It's like saying "the water would be better if it wouldn't be so wet".

5 minutes ago, zilberfrid said:

They are not scimitars

image.png.5356ada69d5390d429e56747ccfcc7ec.pngZnalezione obrazy dla zapytania: scimitar realTh

They are something inbetween scimitar and falchion. Still not too unrealistic for WFB. WFB is historically inspired fantasy wargame, not historical wargame. We have rats with machine guns and laser cannons here. And Steam Tanks! Let the designers have some artistic freedom. 

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3 hours ago, Still-young said:

It already was solid. It’s being done by the Specialist Games team, which are part of Forge World. 

Actually forge world studio is part of specialist games studio

Andy Hoare is head of design studio.

As for Necromunda and Blood Bowl , I will expect core game by GW , special characters and units by FW

My two cents :)

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14 minutes ago, cyrus said:

Actually forge world studio is part of specialist games studio

Andy Hoare is head of design studio.

As for Necromunda and Blood Bowl , I will expect core game by GW , special characters and units by FW

My two cents :)

Tony Cottrell is head of Forge World, Andy Hoare is below him as head of Specialist Games, unless it’s changed recently. 

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2 hours ago, michu said:

Have you seen a scimitar? Those swords are not unrealistic. They even have similarly shaped guards like real scimitars. And why the bident is so crude? Because it's made of ice, it wasn't going to be symetrical.

EDIT: And for people that said "even Phoenix Guard wield regular weapons". But they have divine protection of Asuryan. It's not going to be seen on the model but they as magical as Ice Guard. Magic and blessings can have different forms. Like chaos gifts. WFB was never as historical and low fantasy as you think.

Any impression of "historical and low fantasy" goes out the window the second you play Total War: Warhammer II. Rats with massive warp lightning guns and stuff blasting spells off against massive lizard men summoning vortex spells that rampage across the battlefield with giant dinosaurs roaring and vampire on zombie dragons blasting spells over and over. 

You are delusional if you think its low fantasy.

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9 minutes ago, Ravinsild said:

Any impression of "historical and low fantasy" goes out the window the second you play Total War: Warhammer II. Rats with massive warp lightning guns and stuff blasting spells off against massive lizard men summoning vortex spells that rampage across the battlefield with giant dinosaurs roaring and vampire on zombie dragons blasting spells over and over. 

You are delusional if you think its low fantasy.

Right? And magic in low fantasy settings is more like "I can use blinding light , improve morale of our troops and frighten the enemy" (like Gandalf) not "I cast a meteor on you!" like most of Celestial Wizards can do.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Still-young said:

Tony Cottrell is head of Forge World, Andy Hoare is below him as head of Specialist Games, unless it’s changed recently. 

This is what I heard/read from age of darkness podcast last december:

Spoiler

Current developments
The GW offices at Warhammer World are currently having a massive extension added. As well as new production facilities and warehouse space there is also more room for the various design studios. The plan is once this is constructed, each of the design studios (main GW, Specialist Games, Age of Darkness and Old World) will have more space for the various teams.

This also means that each team will be expanding considerably over the next two years. This will include new rules writers (2 more for Age of Darkness for example) and miniature designers. As part of the re-structuring, Andy Hoare (ex-Heresy rules writer and head of Specialist Games) is now manager of the Specialist Games Studio and the Age of Darkness studio. This role is extremely new so Andy has lots of ideas but nothing has been put into action yet. From personal experience, Andy is a great bloke who has a lot of experience within the hobby; a clear vision of where the company and the game systems can go and also communicates clearly about what is happening (within the usual limits of GW policy).

 

Edited by cyrus

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34 minutes ago, michu said:

Right? And magic in low fantasy settings is more like "I can use blinding light , improve morale of our troops and frighten the enemy" (like Gandalf) not "I cast a meteor on you!" like most of Celestial Wizards can do.

Chaos Armies be like: A bunch of Ogre Centaur creature things, Shaggoths or w/e with Trolls, Giants and literal Dragons...

Orcs on Dragons too, and casting lots of magic. 

All the Aelves are extremely magical, it's kind of their thing. Wizards are very important at least in Total War: Warhammer II. I assume it's an accurate depiction to some level of actual WHFB? 

Blood Bowl 2 on PC is literally exactly like the board game except you don't get to roll the dice yourself with your own hand. Otherwise the rules are 1 to 1 exact copy. 

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2 hours ago, michu said:

The point of this bident is to be an ice bident. It's like saying "the water would be better if it wouldn't be so wet".

image.png.5356ada69d5390d429e56747ccfcc7ec.pngZnalezione obrazy dla zapytania: scimitar realTh

They are something inbetween scimitar and falchion. Still not too unrealistic for WFB. WFB is historically inspired fantasy wargame, not historical wargame. We have rats with machine guns and laser cannons here. And Steam Tanks! Let the designers have some artistic freedom. 

The yagathan, kilij and mameluke sword (seems like a relatively straight shamshir) in that lower picture are historical and functional, the other two are fantasy, not meant to be used. I don't know where the picture comes from. The mameluke sword is facing the other way then the rest.

Only one guard is spiky, and it's fantasy (from the 300 movie).

There is quite a bit of hobby deformation with me, I fence with rapier or sword and buckler, and LARP (no reenactment currently, and neither longsword or spear). I want to know what the person I'm building does, so think of what I would do. If it's awkward or impossible, it just doesn't work with me.

Likewise, gun people would have something to say about the way Grundstok Thunderers use their rifles. Probably.

Sure, it's fantasy, but the weapons are tools, and in my eyes, should function.

And still, if they arrive like this, I'd be pleased, but I'll adjust it to be something that I like.

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3 hours ago, zilberfrid said:

They are not scimitars. You may be thinking of falchions, which are broader and less curved, They are not that either.

These guards are spiky, which would be a literal pain to wear, as well as a risk to your own arms when fencing and binding on your own stuff.

The left one seems to be double edged, with a weird and uncomfortable thin bit right behind the guard. The guard seems very thick, though this may be due to angling. It sits in a historically very rare blade to head ratio that doesn't make it like a naginata, glaive or similar polearm, but also not a sword. This makes both polearm and two handed sword techniques awkward to use.

The middle one is very odd, the guard makes it impossible to use it other than fingers to the left, but that implies a draw cut motion (due to the angle between grip and blade) that doesn't really sit well with the straight blade shape. The grip is also of a weird intermediate length, because the pommel does not seem to be made for gripping.

The dagger/machette seems functional enough, a bit kukri-like. A smoother blade would make it more comfortable to use and more durable, but this isn't bad.

Take away the ice, and the fork is usable, though very short for a polearm (if it's not to be wielded with the shield, otherwise perfectly fine).

The bow does not seem to be a regular composite, but overcomplicated with lots of transitions that will decrease flexibility and durability, and the spikes are just silly. I like the arrows though, with the ice magic just where you'd want it: on the bit that goes into the enemy.

This all is changeable by hobbyists rather easily, and I am already thrilled enough just with the design of bodies and faces. Overdesigned stuff is easily toned down for people that prefer that, but if you really like this style, making it more intricate is harder. I would not mind if they came out looking like this, though I would immediately change it to my preference.

It sounds like Warhammer FANTASY Battle might not be for you... 

It's not called Warhammer Historical Battle. 

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1 minute ago, zilberfrid said:

The yagathan, kilij and mameluke sword (seems like a relatively straight shamshir) in that lower picture are historical and functional, the other two are fantasy, not meant to be used. I don't know where the picture comes from. The mameluke sword is facing the other way then the rest.

Only one guard is spiky, and it's fantasy (from the 300 movie).

There is quite a bit of hobby deformation with me, I fence with rapier or sword and buckler, and LARP (no reenactment currently, and neither longsword or spear). I want to know what the person I'm building does, so think of what I would do. If it's awkward or impossible, it just doesn't work with me.

Likewise, gun people would have something to say about the way Grundstok Thunderers use their rifles. Probably.

Sure, it's fantasy, but the weapons are tools, and in my eyes, should function.

And still, if they arrive like this, I'd be pleased, but I'll adjust it to be something that I like.

I was in the army as a tanker (19K) no less and trained in pistols, rifles as well as tanks themselves. 

I am familiar with firearm weapons. 

I literally do not care how Grundstok Thunderers use their weapons because I did not train with Dwarves in the army because Dwarves in fantasy are not the same thing as people formerly known as midgets who we now call Dwarves or people with Dwarfism. Point being: I have no say in Dwarven technology because it's not real and can do whatever it wants. 

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17 minutes ago, Ravinsild said:

I was in the army as a tanker (19K) no less and trained in pistols, rifles as well as tanks themselves. 

I am familiar with firearm weapons. 

I literally do not care how Grundstok Thunderers use their weapons because I did not train with Dwarves in the army because Dwarves in fantasy are not the same thing as people formerly known as midgets who we now call Dwarves or people with Dwarfism. Point being: I have no say in Dwarven technology because it's not real and can do whatever it wants. 

Then that's good for you. I am different and nonfunctional designs (like the shoulderpad fetish GW has) keeps bugging me. And yes, maybe nothing in Warhammer is for me, but I have not yet crossed that bridge.

For now, I am content just fixing things in the design I see as wrong. As I will with these.

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Posted (edited)

People are getting excited because the design of this new unit is too much "AoS" and not Old Worldish. But i think we should keep in mind that these gals are probably a very elite unit, think royal guard / bodyguard of the Icequeen.

I dont think the rest of the army will look like that, with ice magic and ornemental armor

Edited by Sance

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