Warhammer - The Old World

[Sception]

13 minutes ago, Bolfrig Bearhide said:

Does it suck that we’re not going to get full official support for a lot of things? Yeah. But at the same time it’ll hopefully open some of the community up to accepting fan created material. I’m already planning on how to go about creating rules for characters and models that won’t receive old world support, because who on earth actually wants to play a warhammer game that doesn’t include Skarsnik? 

Pretty much.  I had been working on a homebrew update to the AoS TK rules and I've abandoned that due to cross-compatibility basing issues, but it won't be long before I start working on tOW homebrew projects.  The first one will probably be a supplement to the TK arcane tome to cover TK armies whose loyalties lie with Nagash, including at least rules for Arkhan the Black and a separate muster, possibly also including alternate spells and magic items.

And that will be a warm up to a proper Vampire Counts arcane tome, though I wouldn't be surprised if someone else with more experience and resources has already staked a claim to that, at which point maybe I can contribute to that, or supplement it with a Vampire Wars campaign supplement.

[EntMan]

4 minutes ago, Ejecutor said:

If TOW are the smaller ones you can always do it the other way around. Rebase to TOW size and use adapters to be able to play AoS with them.

Unfortunately the corner to corner diagonal distance on a 30mm square is 42.43mm

So actually the widest distance on a 30mm square base is actually wider than a 32mm round.

[Noserenda]

Ech... The difference between "Here are some PDFs to get you by, we cant release all of warhammer in a timely manner" and "Here are some PDFs if you must, but get a real army asap" is pretty stark. Not a good look doing it so late either.

Unit fillers can be fun and great, but i really hate the ones that are just rocks or other stationary objects literally acting as fillers when some people put huge efforts into actual mini dioramas, pets, monsters and the like to fill in the space whilst looking cool.

 

[Clan's Cynic]

I imagine part of the reason they're pushing the TOW armies so hard is because in terms of tracking sales, every person buying up 'Darkling Covens' to use as Dark Elves in TOW technically counts as as an Age of Sigmar sale, whereas somebody buying post-reboxing Empire State Troops counts as another sale for The Old World. Similar to how the Leviathan and Contemptor finally got plastic models after about a decade, but were promptly exiled to Legends to deemphasise them in 40k. 

I do hope as a community, tournament organisers and players are pretty lax on allowing 'Legends' armies. I've already seen some panic from people more used to the 40k community's diehard need to toe the party line that it will mean "no tournament will ever allow Legends armies!"

The Horus Heresy community has largely fought off certain elements who tried to insist upon Legacies content being banned/limited from events. I hope the Fantasy scene does the same.

Edited January 5 by Clan's Cynic

[MitGas]

19 minutes ago, Ejecutor said:

Is not complicate to retain that charm when "all" the models are ancient ones from that period!

True… but even if more units got redone, it would still invoke feelings of nostalgia just by the scenery and square bases/movement trays alone. It‘s just the overall impression. 

[Tonhel]

I.e this a Bretonnia sculpt that was previewed long ago. It was a test piece from a new sculptor. It's a big sword :). They have probably dozens of sculpts like that for many different armies. They just have to make resin moulds for it.

Edited January 5 by Tonhel

[JackStreicher]

15 minutes ago, Whitefang said:

Permanent exclusion of those of most iconic WFB IPs when they are emphasizing on nostalgia sounds laughable 

They definitely need to find a way to solve this dichotomy between Tow and Aos model lines

Idk why they are trying to push their agenda so hard:

- Khemri evil SO EVIL, JUST EAT IT ALREADY

- NO OTHER RACES SO STFU

at this point it feel and reads like they don’t want to invest any energy into this project at all (they act tired)

[Tonhel]

3 minutes ago, JackStreicher said:

Idk why they are trying to push their agenda so hard:

- Khemri evil SO EVIL, JUST EAT IT ALREADY

- NO OTHER RACES SO STFU

at this point it feel and reads like they don’t want to invest any energy into this project at all (they act tired)

Lol, I have the opposite feeling. They are doing fantastic job and it's good that they are telling what we can expect. I.e that TOW will be focussed on the 9 core factions. It's sucks for those non core factions, but they probably have a revamp through AoS.

The battle reports look great and the game seems fun. The Arcane journals are fantastic for hobbyist that want to d omore with their armies. It all sounds great.

Edited January 5 by Tonhel

[Noserenda]

I think they know they cant win people over with their product so they are going hardline, but it really does come off like some defensive tantrum at this point.

And yeah, i really dont think its a coincidence the races that got new stuff in AoS are the discarded ones, this kind of interdepartmental rivalry has been mildly annoying in 30/40k for years.

[Garrac]

Well, seems like my Fantasy range of skavens, from the still 98% Fantasy range of skavens, wont be able to be played on the new Fantasy game, and that GW wants me to instead use my skavens to play Age of Sigmar, a not-Fantasy game, with my 98% Fantasy range of skavens

GW, sometimes you make it so hard...

Edited January 5 by Garrac

[Whitefang]

The blatant lie is there were actually records of Skaven activity during this era

So if they really want to include Skaven they can always expand on that, but nah.

For reasons understandable, they seem to want people only use old models or models exclusively designed for TOW instead of new AOS plastic

Well, they are just making themselves a joke if they think people will still buy, say, old rat ogres when new plastic rat ogres are inevitably released. 

Edited January 5 by Whitefang

[Garrac]

Which is funny since the Empire was also on a civil War, lol

Edited January 5 by Garrac

[Sception]

So find a skaven community online and work on updating the rules yourselves.

Or just be mad.  IMO a big part of why TOW is such a minimal product on its final release is exactly because there's a good chance that the majority of interest in the game is coming from oldhammer grognards so hard burned in the past that they were always going to take the least charitable interpretation of every official move by GW, people for whom at this point the hobby isn't modelling or painting or gaming so much as complaining about GW.

That's not to say you owe GW fealty or money or the benefit of the doubt.  Far from it.  GW f'd up the old warhammer fantasy game, f'd up bigger with the end times & initial AoS release, and imo that guy who literally burned his massive dark elf army on youtube and swore off GW forever wasn't at all in the wrong.

But while I still think there are mistakes in this release (was a mistake to commit to a particular time period, to commit to particular factions, to spend studio resources on the bone dragon instead of new skeletons, etc), IMO it would have been an even bigger mistake to sink a ton of resources into entire new model lines and massive commitments for a game that in all likelyhood has a smaller potential player (and more importantly customer) pool than Middle Earth does at this point.

Again, GW dumped chaos dwarves in the past, and the chaos dwarf community kept up the faction on their own, did such a good and consistent job of it that independent tournaments treated their homebrew army book as official content, and eventually GW came around and put out the FW chorf line.

If the community makes the game our own then eventually GW will follow behind.

Edited January 5 by Sception

[Tonhel]

11 minutes ago, Noserenda said:

I think they know they cant win people over with their product so they are going hardline, but it really does come off like some defensive tantrum at this point.

And yeah, i really dont think its a coincidence the races that got new stuff in AoS are the discarded ones, this kind of interdepartmental rivalry has been mildly annoying in 30/40k for years.

Huh? Well they won me over. I am very excited about what is coming. The rules seem great and the arcane journals look very immersive. I am already brainstorming which direction I will take my army. What background will my duke have. Phew endless possibilities. I will get all the books and maybe even the reference cards. I will buy most of the resin / plastic characters, but the core of my army will be 3d printed.

Edit: That said I was always an Empire and Bretonnian player. My main opponent played Wood Elves. So it's ofcourse easy talking for me. As all those faction will get their dose of attention while Dark Elves, Skaven and etc players will have minimal support. We can only hope the legacy armylists are good and fun to play.

 

Edit2: It seems GW really wants a hard border between AoS and TOW. A bit bizar, as a sale is a sale.

Edited January 5 by Tonhel

[JackStreicher]

4 minutes ago, Whitefang said:

The blatant lie is there were actually records of Skaven activity during this era

So if they really want to include Skaven they can always expand on that, bu nah.

For reasons understandable, they seem to want people using old models of models just designed for TOW instead of new AOS plastic

Well, they are just making themselves a joke if they think people will still buy, say, old resin rat ogres when new plastic rat ogres are inevitably released, 

Agreed. Some plain honesty would go a long way

Hey guys, to reduce bloat we decided to divide faction into good and evil.

Also at this point (and for the next few years) we plan to ONLY support these nine factions „quality over quantity“

Etc.

 

[Public Universal Duardin]

3 hours ago, Clan's Cynic said:

Another Almanack, this time on converting up 'unit fillers'. Nice to see some conversion/kitbashing articles out of WarCom.

Never thought I'd read that out of a modern GW article.

This was a genuine surprise and made me extremely happy - please continue encouraging converting, GW, just like back in ye olden days!

[Tonhel]

15 minutes ago, Whitefang said:

The blatant lie is there were actually records of Skaven activity during this era

So if they really want to include Skaven they can always expand on that, but nah.

For reasons understandable, they seem to want people using old models or models exclusively designed for TOW instead of new AOS plastic

Well, they are just making themselves a joke if they think people will still buy, say, old resin rat ogres when new plastic rat ogres are inevitably released. 

Yeah. Ofcourse. Most of my hobbytime is painting. I only play 2-3 times a month. I have zero plans to paint mini's that I find ugly. I will not use the old Chaos Warriors instead of the new Chaos warriors and now with 3D printing the possibilties are endless. I expect to see a couple of new patreons /tribes and KS very soon.

This one is announced by Txarli miniatures a new KS. I will support TOW with my money through the rulebooks, arcane journals and other supplements, but I will not buy miniatures I don't like. .

Edited January 5 by Tonhel

[Tonhel]

Here are better pics of the one that could be the unreleased one. Found on facebook.

[michu]

24 minutes ago, Whitefang said:

Well, they are just making themselves a joke if they think people will still buy, say, old resin rat ogres when new plastic rat ogres are inevitably released. 

What resin Rat Ogres, they were always in plastic!
And "some activity" does not mean "whole armies were active on the surface". I'm reading the lore of the Second Civil War and it was so bad that GHR had to intervene personally. It lasted 400 years. The only activity was in Mordheim and those were small warbands of Eshin.

Edit:

Quote

2302 IC: The Great War against Chaos - an incarnation of the Horned Rat is summoned in Skavenblight who brings an end to the civil war. The depleted forces of the skaven are limited in their efforts during the war.

From 4th ed army book

Edited January 5 by michu

[Sception]

27 minutes ago, Whitefang said:

For reasons understandable, they seem to want people only use old models or models exclusively designed for TOW instead of new AOS plastic

We think that, and yet Beastmen is still the same army and same miniatures range in both games, and there's significant overlap between AoS Slaves to Darkness and TOW Warriors of Chaos.

I don't really see a consistent logic between what factions were included or not other than 'we don't think the customer base exists to support all the old factions, so we're only going to keep like half of them, and these are the half we currently feel like keeping.'

I wouldn't read too much into the official model line up either way though, both in terms of the dropped factions (ongoing community effort has seen dropped factions revived in the past) OR the supported ones (imo there's a solid chance this game fails entirely and gets cancelled before all of the 'officially supported' factions get arcane tomes & model re-releases).

[Whitefang]

22 minutes ago, michu said:

And "some activity" does not mean "whole armies were active on the surface". I'm reading the lore of the Second Civil War and it was so bad that GHR had to intervene personally. It lasted 400 years. The only activity was in Mordheim and those were small warbands of Eshin.

Thanks for the correction regarding rat ogres, but according to WFRP2E:

 

Edited January 5 by Whitefang

[Jator]

49 minutes ago, Whitefang said:

The blatant lie is there were actually records of Skaven activity during this era

So if they really want to include Skaven they can always expand on that, but nah.

For reasons understandable, they seem to want people only use old models or models exclusively designed for TOW instead of new AOS plastic

Well, they are just making themselves a joke if they think people will still buy, say, old resin rat ogres when new plastic rat ogres are inevitably released. 

I'm biased, of course, but it does feel wrong to leave skaven out when they're so quintessentially Old World, not to mention very popular in WHF videogames (with a franchise, Vermintide, revolving around them). Of course the other legacy armies deserve to be supported too.

But I'm pretty sure most tournaments will allow them, and that the community will keep the lists updated. Who knows, in another five years the Specialist Games may find a way to support all the armies in ToW without getting at odds with the AoS department.

The thing for me is that I never felt like Fantasy was truly dead, and I don't feel like the legacy factions will be kept out from the Old World.

 

Edited January 5 by Jator

[Ejecutor]

38 minutes ago, Tonhel said:

Yeah. Ofcourse. Most of my hobbytime is painting. I only play 2-3 times a month. I have zero plans to paint mini's that I find ugly. I will not use the old Chaos Warriors instead of the new Chaos warriors and now with 3D printing the possibilties are endless. I expect to see a couple of new patreons /tribes and KS very soon.

This one is announced by Txarli miniatures a new KS. I will support TOW with my money through the rulebooks, arcane journals and other supplements, but I will not buy miniatures I don't like. .

Wow. It looks identical to the official ones!

[michu]

10 minutes ago, Whitefang said:

Thanks for the correction regarding rat ogres, but according to WFRP2E:

 

In Khemri article GW said that they are focusing on Tomb Kings invading the Old World and not on their lands.

[Whitefang]

1 minute ago, michu said:

In Khemri article GW said that they are focusing on Tomb Kings invading the Old World and not on their lands.

Honestly, that only makes the narrative feel more forced, if they still recognize this as canon, Khemri suddenly becomes the big bad invader when they are actually having a lasting war against chaos faction back home.