Warhammer - The Old World

[Ejecutor]

10 minutes ago, Sathrut said:

So I love Nekaph, the BSB bearer is a fine mini, and the new swarms don't work for me. Compared to the originals, the fancy poses make it hard to focus on the actual swarm.

So, is that everything for TK? No new plastic unit, unless the swarms are it? Also loving (not) how you'll need to purchase three books just to use Bretonnia and TK.

Swarm seems to be their plastic kit.

[HorticulusTGA]

6 minutes ago, Ejecutor said:

Swarm seems to be their plastic kit.

Details indicate resin. 

[Clan's Cynic]

The only Army Sets being Bretonnia and Tomb Kings at launch is a bit so-so with me. I understand GW are usually loathe to drop everything at once, they're clearly awares of how little impulse control a lot of people in this hobby have when it comes to spending and presumably want to spread it out over a longer period.

My issue is that a lot of potential Empire, High Elf, etc players are probably reading that article and going "Hmm... I'll just wait until [My Army] set drops and then get into it." I'm sure in the long-term that won't have much impact on the game, but in the short/medium term it's not great having a lot of people still sat on the fence waiting for their turn. I'm fortunate enough to still have my Dwarfs from before, so it's not much of an issue for me to just grab the two rulebooks and get started, but it's still not great for newer players. 

The presence of the rulebook in these boxes also disincentives people from just buying/painting models in the mean time, since none wants to be sat with a second £30 rulebook that you can only flip for like £5 on Ebay, or to have bought a collection and realise if they'd only waited a few months they could've got it all at a substantial discount. 

If Horus Heresy was any indication with how they did the Libers, it'll probably be another pair of armies every three months. Although the Liber Imperium and Liber Mechanicum didn't drop with any new models like TOW presumably will be, so maybe it'll end up longer. 

 

Edited December 26, 2023 by Clan's Cynic

[Ejecutor]

3 minutes ago, Clan's Cynic said:

The only Army Sets being Bretonnia and Tomb Kings is a bit so-so with me. I understand GW are usually loathe to drop everything at once, they're clearly awares of how little impulse control a lot of people in this hobby have when it comes to spending and presumably want to spread it out over a longer period.

My issue is that a lot of potential Empire, High Elf, etc players are probably reading that article and going "Hmm... I'll just wait until [My Army] set drops and then get into it." I'm sure in the long-term that won't have much impact on the game, but in the medium term it's not great having a lot of people still sat on the fence waiting for their turn. I'm fortunate enough to still have my Dwarfs from before, so it's not much of an issue for me to just grab the two rulebooks and get started, but it's still not great for newer players. 

The presence of the rulebook in these boxes also disincentives people from just buying/painting models in the mean time, since none wants to be sat with a second £30 rulebook that you can only flip for like £5 on Ebay.

If Horus Heresy was any indication with how they did the Libers, it'll probably be another pair of armies every three months. Although the Liber Imperium and Liber Imperialis didn't drop with any new models like TOW presumably will be, so maybe it'll end up longer. 

 

Especially when that turn can take several months.

[sandlemad]

Nekaph is brilliant, real classic Nehekharan arrogance there and a wonderful pose.

The BSB is pretty poor, overburdened with clunky OTT features on the banner, ‘soft’ detail on the body (could be the paintjob but also characteristic of the new resin king compared to the old metal one) and awkwardly posed. The old tomb herald wasn’t amazing but quite a bit better than this.

The swarms aren’t good either, lots of ‘stuff’ but still has the lumpy thickness of resin and falls down compared to basically any plastic swirly stuff done by GW in the last decade, it just isn’t as light.

[Gaz Taylor]

20 minutes ago, Clan's Cynic said:

I understand GW are usually loathe to drop everything at once, they're clearly awares of how little impulse control a lot of people in this hobby have when it comes to spending and presumably want to spread it out over a longer period.

I think they are aware of people impulse control which is why we get all these FOMO sets! 🤣

My concern is the support on release. They need to have as much of the ranges out for both Tomb Kings and Brets on release. Will be curious to see how it goes as I’m cautiously optimistic but I suspect if the independent tournament and narrative scene kicks off again, we will see lots of other ranges which could affect future releases. 
 

 

[YoghurtKobold]

1 hour ago, Ejecutor said:

Especially when that turn can take several months.

I fear you are being too optimistic. There was one rumor that Empire and OnG will be released in summer. That is more than 6 months for another 2 armies. Since there are 9 armies in total that could mean some people will have to wait maybe almost another 2 years??

On the other hand the rumor with mummies or new king on chariot was clearly false so maybe the pace will be quicker.

[Ejecutor]

7 minutes ago, YoghurtKobold said:

I fear you are being too optimistic. There was one rumor that Empire and OnG will be released in summer. That is more than 6 months for another 2 armies. Since there are 9 armies in total that could mean some people will have to wait maybe almost another 2 years??

On the other hand the rumor with mummies or new king on chariot was clearly false so maybe the pace will be quicker.

Talking about rumours. The streamer that said (at least where I heard it from) about Empire vs Green Skins being released during summer is the one that said the art of the boxes was changed to turn 1 big box into two, with the two new/ main characters facing one to each other. So maybe we can assume this is/was right.

[Sception]

The actual tk releases are a bit disappointing to me, but digital format book releases is such positive news (ie, people will be able to get the rulebooks on release and start playing even if the physical books suffer from the usual shipping issues and delays) that overall I'm pretty happy anyway.

[Black_Templar_Lad]

I for sure will be getting all those books. I'm absolutely buzzing for all that lore and art. 

Really conflicted with what model line to buy first. I kinda want to wait for High Elves, or do a Warriors of Chaos army with the AoS range, or even a Border Prince army using CoS. 

I really hope this release is successful, and by success, unfortunately that means if it makes a good profit for the company. It shouldn't be the case, but since it is, I feel like I have to 'invest' in this initial army release. Anyone else feel the same? 

[LordSolarMach]

1 hour ago, Sathrut said:

Also loving (not) how you'll need to purchase three books just to use Bretonnia and TK.

Yeah... I guess their format is:

• At game's launch: Rulebook.
• At game's launch: Forces of Fantasy + Ravening Hordes
• Shortly after game's launch: "Legacy Army" pdf Army Lists
• At each army's launch: Arcane Journal

Whereas I think I would have preferred the Army Lists to be in the Rulebook (or free pdf Army Lists for everybody, like the 40k Indexes) and then full Army Books coinciding with an army's launch.

[Sception]

as for the new tk stuff...

Nekaph looks cool, but my loyalties are to Arkhan rather than settra, so I'll probably skip him.

Herald looks... ok, but not a huge improvement on the old metal model.  maybe a bit more stable for resin with the draping cloth bits touching his body?  Regardless, plastic sphynx crew on infantry base converted to carry the big sphynx banner is still a better herald bsb imo, and anyone who makes a royal or necrosphynx will have the bits to make that left over.

swarms... Eh.  imo they're better than the old lightly textured square tiles, but also a less good implementation of the swirling bits of stuff concept than I would have expected from GW in recent years.  Also, swarms were so far down the list of stuff that needed to be redone in the tk line that, like the dragon, I just find the decision to spend studio time and production resources on these baffling.

...

Anyway, I'll be getting a box or two of the swarms, digital copies of all the rules, and if the bone dragon is available separately I might get that too, price depending (yes if under us$80, no if over us$160, maybe if inbetween).

I also might pick up a couple boxes of black knights/hexwraiths to start replacing the skeletal horses pulling my chariots.  the hexwraith steeds are taller than the old plastic tk horses, which will tilt the chariots up a bit, but since I'm also replacing the skeleton crew with the 7th ed vamp count skittles, that'll actually probably work with their forward lean.

Edited December 26, 2023 by Sception

[HorticulusTGA]

BTW talking about models prices (instead of books)...

the MTO Battle for Maccrage is 90£... I checked, the original from 2004 was 40£ / 50 euros..................... That does not bode well for TOW prices. 

[Sathrut]

1 hour ago, sandlemad said:

Nekaph is brilliant, real classic Nehekharan arrogance there and a wonderful pose.

The BSB is pretty poor, overburdened with clunky OTT features on the banner, ‘soft’ detail on the body (could be the paintjob but also characteristic of the new resin king compared to the old metal one) and awkwardly posed. The old tomb herald wasn’t amazing but quite a bit better than this.

The swarms aren’t good either, lots of ‘stuff’ but still has the lumpy thickness of resin and falls down compared to basically any plastic swirly stuff done by GW in the last decade, it just isn’t as light.

Have to agree on the BSB on second viewing. Too much clutter on the banner distracts from the rest of the mini, which isn't much better, especially with that awkward pose.  Minor nitpick, but it bugs me they painted the scarabs the same colour as the pole, just looks like they forgot to paint them.

I know the old swarms weren't great, and there's a nice homage to the old ones (skeleton crawling forwards) but they suffer from the same issues as the BSB.

Overall, Bretonnia wins on the new mini front for me. There's a cohesion between their designs that seems to strike the balance between old and new aesthetics. Meanwhile, they seem to have gone all in on TK being ostentatious; models covered in bling, bling and more bling.

 

 

[Sception]

11 minutes ago, Sathrut said:

Overall, Bretonnia wins on the new mini front for me.

No question.  better choices of what models to do, better execution on those models.  If the new FEC stuff weren't so cool, I'd be grabbing up bretts to run counts as FEC in aos.

[MothmanDraws]

1 hour ago, HorticulusTGA said:

BTW talking about models prices (instead of books)...

the MTO Battle for Maccrage is 90£... I checked, the original from 2004 was 40£ / 50 euros..................... That does not bode well for TOW prices. 

It is a price hike, but tbf £40 in 2004 is just shy of £70 now so its a £20 increase not a £50. Dont know if GW also ups prices on these limited run MTO things

[Sathrut]

Well, Hastings posted about the "mummy" unit on War of Sigmar:

Quote

BTW the “sand mummies” I was told about are in fact these tomb swarms, my source thought they were swirling sand, not scarabs. he did say they were plastic, but these look more like resin.

Guess we'll have to wait and see. Disappointing that we don't seem to be getting a new plastic kit like foot knights.

 

Edited December 26, 2023 by Sathrut

[silverstu]

The books look nice, probably pricey but good. I think I'll probably get the rules and Raven hordes book for my dwarfs. Its a shame Skaven are only PDFs, hopefully they will be good enough for me to tempt my buddy back into gaming..🤞

[Ejecutor]

18 minutes ago, silverstu said:

The books look nice, probably pricey but good. I think I'll probably get the rules and Raven hordes book for my dwarfs. Its a shame Skaven are only PDFs, hopefully they will be good enough for me to tempt my buddy back into gaming..🤞

What is worse, they are not being translated into the languages of those countries where WHFB were most popular. Spain and Italy.

[YoghurtKobold]

It would be great if GW give us some sort of ToW roadmap. The fact that I would like to start a different army than Bretonnia or TK and don’t have old models for it is frustrating. Like does GW seriously wants me to give my money to Ebay sellers?

[The Lost Sigmarite]

Honestly, the TK skeletons in the launch boxes make me fearful about other base units that have not stood the test of time well. Looking at you, High Elf spearmen/archers/silver helms, and Empire knights.

[JackStreicher]

34 minutes ago, The Lost Sigmarite said:

High Elf spearmen/archers/silver helms

It's not fear anymore, but certainty.

[Sception]

18 hours ago, YoghurtKobold said:

It would be great if GW give us some sort of ToW roadmap.

IMO there's no clear roadmap because GW is righfully taking a wait and see approach to TOW's success.  Right now it looks like GW's plan for TOW is to invest the minimum possible amount of money and effort until they can more accurately gauge interest.  And honestly, as much as I do think they should have redone the TK skeletons rather than bothering with the bone dragon, I do think the minimal approach is the correct one, and one more likely to lead to the long term success of TOW then diving in with entire brand new model lines, whether for existing factions like Bretts & TKs or new ones like Kislev or Cathay.

I mean, let's be real here, it's still an open question whether there will be a legitimate player base for the Old World at all.  Yes, there's been a fair bit of online buzz and interest around the game, but that noise could turn out to be a mirage generated by bitter grognards eager to discuss any oldhammer news but who will never give GW another dollar no matter what they do plus computer gamers who like total warhammer but will bounce off of the inconveniences baked into the hobby aspect of a tabletop minis game no matter what the models looked like.

Starting with a minimum viable product like they're doing means the game doesn't have to be an immediate smash hit to justify its continued existence the way it would have needed to with a heftier initial investment.

A smash hit is admittedly far less likely this way - oldhammer players with existing Brett and TK armies are unlikely to buy much for this release since there's not really anything new on offer, where as I at least would likely have dropped us$500+ on new minis alone if they had redone the skittles & skittle horses.  But on the other hand, a modest hit is ~possible~ in a way that it just wouldn't have been if TOW had needed to justify a major up front investment by GW.

If TOW fails on even its currently modest expectations, then we'll likely see nothing else.  Just a stand alone ruleset that oldhammer fans can hold onto and play in their basements and local stores for as long as they like.  And honestly, I'd be ok with that.  That already constitutes more support for the Old World than I'd ever thought we'd see again a decade ago.

If on the other hand TOW's initial release is a success, however modest, then I'd expect another wave or two of oldhammer rereleases, with maybe a couple modest resin heroes, every four to six months until the officially supported factions have all made the rounds.  By that point GW should know whether the game has legs - in which case I'd expect to see a second edition release with more significant new model support - or not.

 

Personally I'm hoping the game plan for TOW is extra flexible, including possibly re-examining the decision to focus on a specific locked historical timeframe.  IMO oldhammer factions changed little enough in their composition over time that they could and should have just opened TOW up to the entire span of the old world's history, letting them zoom in on one major exciting event after another as the seasons and editions roll by, rather than remaining locked in one particular time frame when not much is going on with the idea of slowly ramping up to an interesting event maybe some time in the future.

Edited December 27, 2023 by Sception

[RyantheFett]

IMO it looks like Bretonna got the better deal overall.

Its strange that Bretonna got the foot knights which give two weapon options as well as heads/shields to spice up older models. TK did get a glow up for the Tomb Swarm, but man really wonder if they still have more to show?

Also the box prices should be interesting. Bret is a lot less models and does not really have a big centerpiece to drive up the price. And while both boxes have units that did not age well those TK look so much worse lol.

[Ironbreaker]

I'm really excited for the game, but I'm afraid I won't have anyone to play with. The shop is majority younger players with no one having originally played WHFB. I've tried gauging interest and it's been met with a lot of skepticism and dismissing. I've been told if they wanted to play The Old World they would just boot up their computer and play Total War. I'm afraid my interest in the game is plummeting to rock bottom if there's no one to enjoy the game with.